1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fJBrCs6VXM

    In this video a Flat Earther called "Dr. John" shares his observations of the coastline from the Southern English town of Worthing. He correctly identifies some landmarks along the way, but then it all goes wrong when he claims to be able to see the cliffs of Beachy Head, and then claim this "disproves the globe"

    A clue to what he is doing wrong is that the "Beachy head" looks like a little white dot, where as Seaford head looks like giant white cliffs.
    Metabunk 2019-05-16 16-59-48.

    This is odd, because if the Earth was Flat, then Beachy Head would also look like giant white cliffs.
    Metabunk 2019-05-16 17-32-44.

    He also does some calculations, showing that 92 meters of the cliff should be hidden behind the curve, and hence he concluded that he has disproved the globe.

    Metabunk 2019-05-16 17-04-59. Metabunk 2019-05-16 17-07-11.

    Bold claim, and wrong. Luckily he zoomed in enough on one shot that we can use this to fit the skyline to the actual view, and see what is going on. He's actually seeing the cliff that's behind the lighthouse! This cliff is 106m high, and a little further away, but the top 10 meters would be visible as white dot just like we see in Dr. John's video.

    Metabunk 2019-05-16 17-43-42. Metabunk 2019-05-16 17-43-52.

    So instead of disproving the globe, it looks very like Dr . John has actually proved it.
    Metabunk 2019-05-16 17-54-49.

    Metabunk 2019-05-16 18-04-59.

    Attached Files:

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  2. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    Would you be able to do a slide comparison of this shot, with Seaford Head also in the picture? I think that would show what's going on really well.
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Metabunk 2019-05-17 07-30-59. Metabunk 2019-05-17 07-32-49.

    It's not perfect, because:
    A) Seaford head is closer, and the raising of the viewpoint in GE to the a "Flat Earth" view has made the skyline behind it raise up slightly. This is a common problem in views along the coast like this.
    B) The cliffs ar Seaford Head, as Dr. Jonn points out, are rendered incorrectly in GE, with the grass and the path coming down the side.
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Copied from the other thread: https://www.metabunk.org/observations-of-brighton-from-worthing-pier.t10259/#post-227192


    Of course, he made it as hard as possible for himself by getting as close to the water line as possible, therefore maximizing the chance of refraction confusing any observation.

    Looking at that region (south coast of England) though, there's a great potential spot for the target of observation, the Belle Tout Lighthouse, about 24 miles from Worthing
    Metabunk 2018-12-14 15-19-38.
    From about 12 feet eye elevation at Worthing, the top of the cliff should just be visible.
    Metabunk 2018-12-14 15-20-40.

    But crouched down on the beach, it should be invisible.
    Metabunk 2018-12-14 15-21-28.

    You could then go up to nearby Cissbury Ring, 600 feet up, from where you will be able to see all of the cliffs.
    Metabunk 2018-12-14 15-31-00.

    Metabunk 2018-12-14 15-29-15.


    In the above I wasn't really accounting for refraction, so crouched down near the ocean might still get a peek of white cliffs.

    The difference between beach observations and Cissbury Ring observations should be stark and definitive.
    Last edited: May 21, 2019 at 9:56 PM
  5. Colin Parkinson

    Colin Parkinson New Member

    If you go to his repeating the beachy head observation video, at 17:30 you can see a large boat hidden by the horizon. A total ranty flat earth

    Metabunk 2019-05-21 21-55-31.


    Source: https://youtu.be/XYixGyQcMRo
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2019 at 9:55 PM
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    He has responded in usual style here:

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uxoImpTJ5U

    His key error seems to be:
    Metabunk 2019-05-21 21-58-48.

    My image (bottom) is from his actual view location. His location is much closer because he has missed that I've zoomed in from the original location, whereas he has just moved the camera very close.

    I sent him this, 2 days ago:

    Along with the attached KMZ file. All he had to do was either A) recreate it from the info in the image above, or B) load the attached KMZ file, like:

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXY-4SRCuOg

    Attached Files:

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  7. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    That's a real head-scratcher: that a supposedly educated man would not see the difference between moving the camera closer and zooming.

    Perhaps a good way to demonstrate the error there: I take a picture of a wall and zoom in on it. I can't see what's behind the wall. But if I move my camera closer, even though I get the same width of wall as the zoomed image, I can now see things behind it because my angle has changed.

    Does he only appear to respond to YouTube videos? Seems like he doesn't read the threads here.

    Also interesting to note that he now appears to have gone "full flat earth", whereas previously he would deny that he was a flat earther, merely stating that the particular stretches of water he had observed appeared flat, but he knew nothing about the rest of the world.
  8. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    you mean like a cow wall? or a garden/yard wall? because I cant see over a garden/yard wall if I move closer to it.

    (note: in Britain I think people call their yards "gardens". So I used "garden". And "yard" shouldn't be confused with the American measurement of 3 feet. :) )
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A more detailed response:

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoGcMwIar14

    I made this because his accusation of faking has been very popular with the Flat Earth crowd. So to save time in the long run I did a quick screen capture explaining how the image is made.
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  10. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    Sure you can - depending on your elevation, and how close to the wall the thing you want/are then able to see is.
    Over here, a garden has grass and flowers in it, while a yard is cement or brick. A lawn is just grass.
    Very good, that. :)
  11. Crazy John

    Crazy John New Member

    It is very noteable how, in conversation with these guys, their explanations for what is seen quickly devolve into 'you must be faking it'. Thank you for putting the leg work in Mick West, I work in education and I expect I'll run into kids who've been sold these claims sooner or later, so having a resource like metabunk to refer to is very useful. It also makes this for some good demonstrating is of how science works, and how ancient people's could have worked out the shape of the world!
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