1. JDubyah

    JDubyah Member

    This one is starting to be passed around the conspiracy circles as 'proof that the end is near' or 'proof of depopulation'. It's a site owned by one Edwin Deagle, according to whois.net. [Mod note, that's actually deagle.com, the site with the list is deagel.com] It says it references government and military web sources to make projections of things like population, GDP, PPP and the like for various countries, although it doesn't show the formulas.

    What it shows is that the US population will either be reduced to ~69m or by 69m people by 2025. Other countries will also be hit hard, while others will prosper, according to their chart.

    Now, it looks like nothing more than a chart where someone applied a simple ratio that cut off population according to another metric, probably related to the economy, and the scale was way off. Or, it's intentionally trying to create a stir. Whatever the case, because it's a bit mysterious, says it references the government and military, and is presented in a tidy, sortable table format, it's starting to get some traction out there in CT land.

    Here you go, have at it:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2017
  2. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    This (below) is what passes for the "reasoning" behind the nonsense prediction...
    (though it's really probably actually nothing more than click bait)
    even though it isn't long, I still can't recommend giving it even a few minutes:
    There's nothing there. All assumptions depend on the total collapse of the
    (strengthening) :p U.S. economy....not worth debunking...

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2017
  3. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    Is this supposed to make any sense at all? People killed themselves because a lot of people were moving to urban areas.
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  4. Hevach

    Hevach Senior Member

    The whole thing reads like some kind of libertarian fanfiction. I kept expecting a Lincoln-Reagan ship in there somewhere.
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  5. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    This seems to be the building the web site is registered through. Doesn't look like a going business concern to me. More like apartments in Spain. Maybe they are deep cover.

    Since there is no information on how Deagel.com obtained the data or made the forecast I don't think it has much merit. As an aside Roses Spain does look like it would be a nice place to vacation so the website did serve a purpose.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2017
  6. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Yeah, just typing "Deagel.com" and "merit" into the same sentence crashed my iMac...
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  7. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    I visited the site on October 24th and there wasn't anything besides the interactive chart. The owner seems to have worked on it since it started getting passed around to the CT sites. I guess they wanted to look authoritative to their new followers.
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  8. JDubyah

    JDubyah Member

    I hadn't read all that extra explanation either, as my first visit just had the numbers and very little description. It's good to see that it's what I suspected.. just making leaps in logic an applying brute ratios.

    I wanted to get it up here so the CTers could find something else to read about the site rather then the 'end is near!' stuff that's being tagged along to it.

    Upon further reading, this site is being paired with some notion of a 'megacity' plan for the US, and in the explanation quoted above about people being 'unable to handle the transition to large cities', it fits with that conspiracy as well. Maybe that's another thread, but it looks like there's an effort to build up a series of web sites that pull together the 'depopulation', 'megacity', 'America 2050' conspiracy stuff. Like this site by Dave Hodges:

  9. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Whilst it is true that urbanisation of the populous during the industrial revolution, in the UK at least, did lead to a higher death rate and a shorter life expectancy.


    the causes were more to do with slum living conditions, poor food supply, population density leading to a high rate of disease transmission, polluted water supplies, dangerous factory working conditions etc, rather than a sudden desire to commit mass suicide.


    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
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  10. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    That I could accept. I cannot shoehorn it as the connotation intended in the previous post though.
  11. Madame

    Madame New Member

    The bit about people killing themselves because of transitioning to urban areas, and the bit about Russia and China being the new center is new. These actually reflect two conspiracy theories. One being Agenda 21, which is believed to involve people being forced to live in mega cities (those who survive whatever cull is predicted), and the more mainstream CT that Russia and China are going to crash the US dollar (merged with the Illuminati making their new center in the east). The economic theory is actually backed up by some indicators (which by no means say there is a conspiracy, merely provide the fodder), including those nations dumping our debt bonds, and a prediction that the yuan is about to become a global trade currency, possibly backed by gold. When I visited the Deagel site two weeks ago, it only blamed the population drop of economic collapse, followed by loss of healthcare and a die off of the elderly as well as people fleeing the US.

    It appears Deagel.com just added this, perhaps to get more hits or scare-monger (or cuz it's true :D !?).

    Also--this is basic math class--they predict the population will BE 69 mil, not drop by. They show other predictions such as GDP, not the rate it is lowered by but the rate it will be. That is how the chart is read.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2017
  12. Madame

    Madame New Member

    A quick WhoIs search, if it means anything to anyone:

    Domain Name: DEAGEL.COM
    Registrar: TUCOWS DOMAINS INC.
    Whois Server: whois.tucows.com
    Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net
    Status: ok
    Updated Date: 19-aug-2013
    Creation Date: 31-aug-2003
    Expiration Date: 31-aug-2016

    >>> Last update of whois database: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 02:43:47 GMT <<<
  13. Hevach

    Hevach Senior Member

    Unfortunately anything that would be useful (owner name or contact information) isn't listed for the domain, just some registration and hosting information that could be shared by hundreds of other sites.
  14. Madame

    Madame New Member

    Christ, here we go. Above it says someone found an Edwin Deagle listed as owner. A google search revealed a military Major by that name, and this forward from a book about energy by Mr. Deagle. At his signature, we learn he is a member of the Rockafeller Foundation. I have just ordered a customs made tin foil hat, folks. Here is the text, which reads much in the same style as the text from the site explaining the predictions.
    End quote, good night, god bless.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2015
  15. D3FC0NZ3R0

    D3FC0NZ3R0 Member

    (@Whitebeard) ...10s of millions of (perhaps over 50,000,000) Chinese People didn't just sponatneously commit mass suicide ca. 1960 either. The forced urbanization (and very possibly other, more clandestine, agendas) contributed in various ways to the genocide known as the Great Leap "Forward". There is every reason to think such a thing will happen again, just as there is with respect to the Soviet purge of Stalin and the alleged Holocaust of Hitler; in fact there is every reason to think that the quarter billion (262,000,000+) Souls snuffed out by the process of Democide (systematic extermination by one's own "government") and reported by acclaimed professor and historian Rudolf Rummel is only the beginning of a larger trend (or plan).
  16. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    I think that there is a distinction to be made between "contributed" and "caused."

    I have no doubt that some programs were deliberately designed to cause death. The Soviet Union in the thirties is an excellent example.

    A great deal death and suffering was also the result of incompetence, ideological hubris, and misguided policy.

    I am not familiar with Rudolf Rummel, but looked him up, specifically his theory of "democide"


    I find your use of the term "alleged Holocaust of Hitler" to be very troubling.

    I would like to see what evidence that you might have regarding "a larger trend (or plan)" beyond pure speculation/
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  17. DougW

    DougW Member

    The Great Leap forward had nothing to do with urbanisation or forced clandestine agendas. People starved to death because of Mao's orders on farm yield quotas that were unrealistic. Sadly all the cadre's under him right along the chain of command from the highest to the lowest didn't have the intestinal fortitude to tell the truth so they just told the cadre who was the next rung up what they wanted to hear to save themselves til the story Mao wanted to hear got back to him. So instead of releasing the harvests to the population (year after year) the cadres stored most of it up to give the impression that the 'Great Helmsman's words had come to fruition' and that China was abundant in food.
    The greatest move of urbanisation in China started with the open reforms of Deng (after Mao's death and the arrest of the Gang of Four) which continue to this day which has been, by far greater than any moves of urbanisation during the 1950s.
    The only agenda Mao had was he was delusional to reality and his own self worth.
  18. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    The reduction of life expectancy in the UK the during the industrial revolution has little do do with any of the above examples. In the Great Leap Forward, Mao was trying to compact 200 years of technological progress - from a agricultural feudal economy to a modern industrial one into five years, with really poor planning and no foresight which resulted in a terrible human price. Stalins' purges were the result of political paranoia and a desire to tighten his grip on power, whilst the holocaust (no alleged about it, but that's off topic) was the tragic result of the xenophobic delusions of a despotic megalomaniac. However these differ from the UK situation I was referring to in as much as they were the result, intended or otherwise, of the actions of one dictator and his yes men, rather than a series of on going processes, sociological, economic, industrial and agricultural that took 150 years to play out.

    Yes states do at times go postal on their own populations, want some more examples? Pol Pots Killing Fields, the Rwandan genocide, the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans following the break up of Yugoslavia, General Pinochet and the rest of the 'South American meat packing glitterati' (to quote Roger Waters) and their crack down on opposition... the list is long. BUT they can hardly be called cases of mass global depopulation. Even in the worse case, the holocaust, we are still 'only' talking between 6-7 million compared with total deaths in WW2 of over 60million in total. Even that figure is under 3% of the 1939 global population. Hardly 'mass depopulation'.

    I can see more holocausts, genocides and xenophobic political psychos killing millions in the future, we have had them since we dropped out of the trees, and we will continue to have them as long people continue to be utter bastards to one another. However these events, although they may well be tragic, shocking and of local import, they will be in the grand scheme of things insignificant. There are currently just over 7.4 BILLION people on Earth, that population is being boosted by 350,000 a day. To put this in perspective, if I wiped out the population of London (8.6 mil) right now, it would take less than a month to replace every one of my victims. Therefore any nefarious scheme to reduce he global population had better be bloody big and effective, otherwise it's just pissing in the wind.

    If you want real mass depopulation you have to look at something natural like the Black Death in the 1350's which took out half the population of Europe and 20% of the global population, and that is something only the very very stupid would even consider as viable. Not only are epidemics not very selective as to who they infect and kill (the rich and powerful are just as likely to cop a dose as the 'ordinary' people), but mass depopulation events are bad news for those in power. The Black Death caused massive social and political changes in the years after it hit. The mass deaths of the serf farmers killed of the feudal system in many parts of Europe, severely weakened the power of the Church and gave rise to the earliest shoots of social, religious and economic change that would come to fruition some 150 years later, sweeping the old orders away with it.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
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  19. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    Very well said.
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  20. Spectrar Ghost

    Spectrar Ghost Senior Member

    I occasionally wonder if Whitebeard isn't a Professor of History at Princeton masquerading as a musician for kicks.
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  21. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Lol...nah my only history qualification is an A-level, BUT it was my best subject at school, and I do dig the subject so much I read far far more history books than I do fiction.
  22. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

    Why can't you be both? Superhero origin story here.
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  23. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    "Whitebeard was a normal musician, until one day, whilst bored out of his mind in the back of the transit en-route to a gig in Dundee he read a radio-active essay on the subject of 'The impact of the expansion of the Cornwall Railway Company on the china clay industry in the Redruth area'....

    That sort of thing?
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  24. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

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  25. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    Simple math, if Whitebeard's number is correct then any global depopulation effort must increase the daily global death rate by 350,000 persons.
    That would be greater than trebling the present daily dearh rate.
    That, I assume , would be noticed.
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  26. Un4givenone

    Un4givenone New Member

    There is a lot of good thought here on differing opinions. I joined to point out one or two things. Though all have points.
    On the depopulation topic, Though everyone has made good points, I see no mention of man made virus's. Yes, we all know that they are not suppose to be made, yet I think we all know they are. Then you have the possibility of nuclear eradication that doesn't necessarily need rockets. With the flood gates of the different sec's of Muslim ( I'm not saying all ) the Jihadist, as backward as they can seem, have those that can manufacture these. Though it's not likely. They also as we all should know, attempting to manufacture bio and chemical weapons that can be distributed in small packages. Get a 100 or so with suitcase sized distribution systems in 50 major cities at the same time and there's a massive death toll. Just saying if there's a will there's a way. Jihadists will be the preferred ideology for the so called NWO as it's designed for slaves to want to be slaves and if anyone speaks out its punishable by death, it encourages even family members to kill anyone including family any and all opposition. Just some food for thought. And one last item, don't down play the UN's agenda, it was written by the #2 communist in the world and I believe people are being led by lies and misconceptions to fulfill the agenda and its not all peaches.

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2017
  27. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    Could you explain some of this?

    "Jihadists will be the preferred ideology for the so called NWO"

    "don't down play the UN's agenda, it was written by the #2 communist in the world and I believe people are being led by lies and misconceptions to fulfill the agenda"
  28. DougW

    DougW Member

    I don't think there have been man made viruses that have been 'released' on the human population. Always open to be corrected of course as long as it's from a credible source. I think realistically any dramatic reduction in population would come either from space with some sort of rock collision - a super natural disaster or large scale war.
  29. Hannes De Beer

    Hannes De Beer New Member

    Can you please clarify.

    You refer to Edwin Deagle and his website deagle.com, yet you link to a totally different website deagel.com.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2017
  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's deagel.com, Edwin Deagle seems unrelated. Seems to date back to a misunderstanding on ATS:
  31. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    I was looking at this site again recently. Archive.org has copies saved back as far as 2003, but the earliest I can get any of its predictions is 2008. Fortunately, the predictions on that page are for 2017, the same year as the latest actual data on the Deagel page. As you can see, the predictions are not especially accurate. (2008 forecasts for 2017 on left, actual 2017 data on right)


    This is only the first page - I don't think subsequent pages were archived, but there is other data there if you dig around in the archives.

    Here for example is the forecast for 2017 for the UK, compared to the actual figures. Deagel forecast a drop in population from 66m to 61m, and a fall in Purchase Power Parity of almost half, neither of which happened:


    And for the USA: the population figure isn't far off, but the GDP and military budget are way off.


    The next forecast year on the Deagel site after 2017 is 2020, which is when the figures really start to show a big fall in population of meany western nations (eg 269m for the USA, 51m for the UK), so we shall see soon enough...
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
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