1. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Weather modification is not secret. It's been done quite openly since the 1950s. See these small ads from the 1960s
    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/30...f-intent-to-perform-weather-modification-quot
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  3. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    All of those cables are clearly talking about cloud seeding, for which silver iodide flares are the most common method of dispersal from aircraft, which isn't really "spraying". In fact, the proposal in Florida never happened due to "adequate natural rains". The second cable talks about NOAA's position that seeding orographic clouds offers some promise in alleviating water shortages, however NOAA is less confident about the effectiveness of seeding of cumulus clouds. In the third cable it was decided to NOT approve a proposed cloud seeding operation in Jordan. The fourth cable talks about a careful policy review concerning funding for a proposed cloud seeding project in Turkey. All of those cable's original security classification was "unclassified". So what are those cables supposed to be evidence for again? The government wants to alleviate water shortages?
     
  4. magnus

    magnus New Member

  5. Mattnik

    Mattnik Moderator

  6. Woody

    Woody Member

    There are 365 days in the year, out of these days what would you say is the average amount of days during a given year, estimated, when these lingering trails of an hour or longer can exist in the sky?
     
  7. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    365 days and nights.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Pete

    Pete Member

    Woody, you must qualify your question with either; one location, any particular location, or the entire world. I believe Jazzy has answered for the entire world, as on any day, somewhere will have a contrail lasting an hour or more.

    The atmosphere is different everywhere, depending on the time of year, weather systems e.t.c.
     
  9. Woody

    Woody Member

    Lets take Kansas City in the center of the nation.
     
  10. Pete

    Pete Member

    So the number of days (24 hour periods) it could happen would be based the total number of days above Kansas City when air at whatever the cruising altitude of aircraft fly at over Kansas city is at the correct temperature and humidity for contrails to form and persist. I reckon wind speed would need to be factored in, as the faster it is the quicker the contrail would disperse or move. You also need to account for changes in jet engine design over the last however many years you want to compare it to, as newer engines are more contrail productive. So a contrail from a newer aircraft will last longer.

    But seeing as I'm not proposing chemtrails exist, or indeed that the number of days above Kansas City where contrails could persist has gone up/down due to anything other than issues (natural or not) outside of the chemtrail argument, the onus is on you to collate the information. To be blunt, its an awful lot of weather records to collate, and it ain't my job, its the believer's!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Woody

    Woody Member

    When I was kid I would see these long persistent trails on rare occasions. My neighbor, Bernie, was an aircraft mechanic for Northwest Airlines so his kid and I went and asked him about this. He told us back then that the weather up there was much different than down here and that these days are rare and require both a stable and calm environment for them to exist. What was once occasional is now daily, and I could agree with a change in fuel, alterations in the atmosphere, etc, but the changes would also appear across the board, meaning they would all display the same effect, bringing it back to the aircraft and not atmosphere.
     
  12. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    I think from a number of papers I've perused, that for any location , conditions of supersaturation with respect to ice will occur about 20% to 45% of the time. That means, not just persisting, but contrails spreading out to form overcast haze. By a rough extrapolation that's around at least 62 days in a year. The rest of the time outside that sixty days, ie, in addition to that sixty days, a single contrail may not necessarily grow larger and spread into overcast but multiple contrails may still persist for hours.
    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JCLI3955.1

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD900526/abstract

    In addition to those extra days, there will be warmer drier conditions when the contrails will be short lived, lasting 10 minutes or so.
    On rare occasions no contrails at all may form, but as we have seen in Australia, even on one of the hottest days on record at 40C or 104F over the sub-tropical city of Brisbane, persistent contrails will form because the air at high altitudes is still more than 50 degrees below freezing.
    http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/12/05/3648013.htm

    I suspect your "rare" occurrences of the past are equally likely to refer to the numbers of aircraft flying at high enough altitudes to form persistent contrails. ie, High altitude airliners were rarer.
    There is a vastly greater number of airliners flying now-days than in the past http://contrailscience.com/30-years-of-airline-travel/
     
  13. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  14. frenat

    frenat New Member

    And of course cloud seeding looks absolutely nothing like what is seen in these pictures. It is done in clouds, not to produce them far above the layer of rain producing clouds.
     
  15. Woody

    Woody Member

    I find this very interesting. I have been talking about the differences between these contrails and aerosol obscuration program, often called chemtrails. In previous posts I had stated that Jordan was not dispersing these aerosols, but Iraq and Israel are according to our ground observation. This third document supports that we are identifying the differences and this backs up and supports our findings.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  16. Woody

    Woody Member

    China and America have come to agreements on climate change, anyone offer any input as to what is in these agreements and what Kerry refereed to as "Success" in the US in combating climate change? What is in these deals?
     
  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I have no idea what you mean by any of this. What third document? Whose findings? What findings? Which contrails? What difference?
     
  18. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Woody, start a new thread if you want a new conversation.
     
  19. Woody

    Woody Member

    https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cabl...E296420_b.html commenting on your comment on anothers comment to this link found in this thread
     
  20. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    It is discussing cloud seeding.
     
  21. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Really? That third diplomatic cable from 1976 discussed a single proposal from the University of North Dakota for a cloud seeding project as assistance to Jordan. However, the company Weather Modification Incorporated lists the Heshamite Kingdom of Jordan as one of their clients for two projects from 1986-1988, and 1988-1989.

    Furthermore, according to the United Nations Environment Programme Division of Technology, Industry and Economics, cloud seeding experiments have been conducted in Jordan during a period coinciding with the contracts with Weather Modification, Inc.

    http://www.unep.or.jp/ietc/Publications/TechPublications/TechPub-8f/B/Cloud.asp

    And since you mentioned Israel...

    cheers
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Jordan has been interested in cloud seeding for a long time and tries to keep track of new developments. The following video shows a delegation from Jordan gaining experience from Thailand's highly publicised "Royal Rainmaking" cloud seeding efforts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWbR0iHpdPI