Zeitgeist (the film, Peter Joseph), Zeitgeist Movement, Venus Project

Janet D

New Member
The Zeitgeist "documentary" is very popular with the CT’s I’ve known, and it’s been recommended to me many times since Part I came out in 2007. A good number of CT’s consider this film to be some sort of holy grail. I've never seen it. The people who’ve recommended it and the way they’ve talked about it have convinced me I probably wouldn’t appreciate it ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist:_The_Movie .

I’m hoping anyone reading this and has actually seen some or all of the film will comment and give me your thoughts. If I understand this correctly, the Zeitgeist Movement, the film, and the Venus Project are all intended to get people involved in changing the planet in positive ways? And that the “documentary” highlights the critical issues Peter Joseph would like the viewer to get up to speed on? Interesting. I hardly think Joseph taking on the the Christ mytho's is terribly productive, and I think arguing issues of personal faith is a losing proposition; but how interesting that this subject appeals to so many people I know in the CT community. I've read that climate change is mentioned a little in some part of this film, but of course my main quarrel is with all the classic CT’s taken as fact.

“Zeitgeist, Part I: The Greatest Story Ever Told” takes on Christianity, and in theory I don’t have any quarrel with that. I’m agnostic and was raised by atheists, but I really don’t care what another person chooses to believe until they want to run for public office. Then it matters a great deal if a person believes the earth was created a few thousand years ago and believes dinosaurs never existed. But while this first part takes on the subject of the Christ mytho's, from what I’ve read so far it sounds like the Zeitgeist people are still promoting some kind of spirituality, and it sounds a little like the New Age movement philosophy but with a few new twists.

In “Zeitgeist, Part II: All the World's a Stage” the 9/11 CT is the focus, and it sounds like it goes the distance, from controlled demolition to US Gov. prior knowledge…in fact, the Zeitgeist 9/11 CT sounds exactly like what everyone connected with “9/11 Truth” claims to believe. Hmmmm…

“Zeitgeist, Part III: Don't Mind the Men Behind the Curtain”. Released earlier this year, and wow. The full gamut of paranoia-inducing CT’s, with very little reality attached. Everything from the Federal Reserve Bank forcing the US into every war it’s been involved in since 1913, to the notion that the Federal Income Tax is unconstitutional, to the attack on Pearl Harbor (and other attacks on US interests) being false flags, all the way to One World Government and RFID chips.

Like I said, wow. I'm very interested in this subject, the film, the movement, the people behind it, and I'm interesting in what and who is driving these "new" theories that so many people, most of them under 40 years-old, gravitate to.

I found an excellent blog on the subject of the 3rd part of this documentary. The Journeyman Heretic ~ http://journeymanheretic.blogspot.com/2011/04/dont-mind-men-behind-curtain.html

Any thoughts?

Janet D
 

Janet D

New Member
I wasn't aware of that. Wow. I've heard the "documentary" has an overlay of music intended to encourage an emotional response, and quoting from the Wiki, "While the film has been praised by some for being "compellingly edited", it has also been criticized for factual inaccuracies, and the quality of its arguments, with critics describing it as "agitprop" and "propaganda"".

Thank you, Steve.
 

Janet D

New Member
BTW, I'm not one to place blame on a piece of music or a film that a mentally ill person chooses to listen/watch before they make the front page of the newspaper. However, when a film is produced as a documentary and contains historical inaccuracies and outright lies, and if it's known to be something that influenced the thinking and actions of a mentally ill person who ends up committing an act of violence, I think it's fair to critique. I'm saying this because I like some of Marilyn Manson's music, and I think the difference between free artistic expression and the production of a "documentary" filled with propaganda is clear.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Probably deserves to be its own topic - but the influence of popular musicians and performers on people's perceptions of Conspiracy Theories is interesting. Prince spoke about chemtrails, and Dave Mustaine of Megadeath in recent years has gone deep down the rabbit hole, with song lyrics like:

Endgame

"Attention! Attention!! All citizens are ordered to report to their
District detention centers! Do not return to your homes; do not
contact anyone! Do not use any cellular or GPS devices!
Surrender all weapons at once! Attention! This way to the camps!"

I woke up in a black FEMA box
Darkness was all around me, in my coffin
My dreams are all nightmares anymore
And this is what I dream every night

The Leader of the New World Order, the President of the United States
Has declared anyone now residing inside the US of A
Without the RFID chip, you're just an illegal alien
An enemy combatant of America, welcome to the New World Order

This is the end of the road; this is the end of the line
This is the end of your life; this is the . . .

A society in a society, inside the fence life as you know it stops
They got their rules of conduct and we got ours
Be quick or be dead, you crumble up and die, the clock is
Ticking so slowly and so much can happen in an hour

Solo – Chris

This is the end of the road; this is the end of the line
This is the end of your life; this is the endgame

I learned my lessons the hard way, every scar I earned
I had to bleed, inside the day yard
A system of controlled movement, like a giant ant farm
Any time is long time, now you're not in charge of your time anymore

Solo – Chris

This is the end of the road; this is the end of the line
This is the end of your life; this is the end

Solo – Chris

The Ex-President signed a secret bill that can
Land a legal US Citizen in jail and the
Patriot act stripped away our constitutional rights
They say a Concentration camp just popped up, yeah, right!

Solo – Dave

Refuse the chip? Ha! Get persecute and beat by the
Tyranny of Mind control, for the mark of the beast
All rights removed, you're punished, captured, and enslaved
Believe me when I say, "This IS the Endgame!"

Solo – Dave

Music & Lyrics - Mustaine
 
S

Steve

Guest
As a former member of We are Change Los Angeles, I can tell you that we use to hand out 100s of DVDs of both Zeigeist and Loose Change at various street demonstrations to the "sheeple" to wake them up.
 

Janet D

New Member
Thanks Steve and Mick.

@Steve ~ I remember WAC handing out those two DVD's, now that you mention it. What did you think of that group? I attended a meeting of the Seattle chapter back in 2007 (I was a chemtrail + 9/11 CT) and thought they were a really nice bunch of people, but I found the sum total of what they believed in was too much for me. For instance, I've never believed in the Illuminati CT, and the One World Government is a conspiracy theory I attach to the John Birch Society and that ilk. Also, the Seattle group had a lot of praise for Alex Jones, and my thoughts at the time were that if the "truth movement" was ever going to get anywhere it needed to distance itself from Alex Jones. They were nice people, but I never went back.

@ Mick ~ Agreed, "probably deserves to be its own topic" and "the influence of popular musicians and performers on people's perceptions of Conspiracy Theories is interesting." I was into a couple of songs by Ministry. Heh...I still kind of like the songs, but they are full-tilt CT. One of them is titled "Lies Lies Lies" and the other shares the "New World Order" title of the Megadeath song (above). I've heard some members of Foo fighters are into the 9/11 CT, and there are a few others. Here's a video I used to post on MySpace by Ministry when I was a 9/11 CT ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwOCu1phcNQ ~ Interesting, and I had forgotten how much that song influenced me.

In fairness to Ministry, this is their official "Lies Lies Lies" video ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1uw1j3uyM4
 
S

Steve

Guest
The WAC group I was part of became super right-wing Alex Jones fanatics when Obama became the president. As a group they believe the UN is on a course to de-populate the US thru Agenda 21, that global warming is a hoax designed to furthur bankrupt the citizens, chemtrails are real designed to slowly kill the "useless eaters" and GMO crops were invented to complete the de-population task. They believe that the NWO is here and that most of the population will soon reside in FEMA detention camps. And of course they believe that 911 was planned by the US along with Israel to delibertly murder 3000 of their own citizens just to motivate the population to support a never ending war against Islam.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
No songs yet, AFAIK, but Joni Mitchell went from Both Sides Now to a "morgellon's sufferer".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/apr/23/bob-dylan-joni-mitchell

Psssst. The inside word is that the real meaning behind Both Sides Now was a prophetic warning in 1969 to be aware of chemtrails...........
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/joni+mitchell/both+sides+now_20075289.html

Then there was the Blue album, which you have to play backwards to really understand,
it's all connected somehow, like a Matrix, take the red pill..........;)

 
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S

Steve

Guest
From the 1976 song by Joni Mitchel called Amelia.
" I was driving across the burning desert
when I spotted six jet planes
leaving six white vapor trails above the bleak terrain
It was the hexagram of the heavens
it was the strings of my guitar
Amelia, it was just a false alarm"
 

Janet D

New Member
@ Steve ~ NS? You know, that all sounds exactly like what the John Birch Society talks about, and that's the same sort of thing that turned me off about the Seattle WAC group. I think I've read that AJ is JBS, but I don't know that for sure. Interesting though, that people in developed countries are actually living longer than ever, so it's always been hard for me to get my head around the Agenda 21 CT.

You just reminded me of something though, FEMA camps. I had forgotten that I considered that CT for a while. I think it was shortly after discovering 9/11 and chemtrail CT's, and there are probably more CT's I believed in that I don't remember, and 2006 and 2007 were really rough years for me. I was ripe for the picking, psychologically vulnerable, and I'm still a little ticked off about the whole thing. But anyway, there's supposed to be a huge FEMA camp north of me in Washington State, somewhere near the Canadian border in Okanogan County. I kept asking people who were spreading that CT on MySpace if anyone knew the coordinates of this camp. I got no answer, not from anyone, so eventually I went to look for myself. I drove all over Okanogan County, and there aren't a lot of roads in that part of the world. The reason for that is because the terrain is extremely rugged, it's smack-dab in the middle of a mountain range, and I came away from that satisfied that there is no way anyone has built a prison camp in that area that is supposed to be able to hold up to between 100K to 400K people. People kept spreading the info, so I started asking for a coordinate, "gimme just one GPS inside this camp", and I would go look for it again. No response. I finally just left MySpace. Now most of my old MySpace pals have moved to Facebook, even though I remember many of them swearing they would NEVER join that site. Interesting.

@ Jay ~ Not Joni! Ha ha ha...eh, actually I'm not too surprised. BTW, Amelia has been one of my favorite songs for much of my life, and it took on a whole new meaning when I fell for the chemtrail CT.

Now, back to Zeitgeist (the film, Peter Joseph), the Zeitgeist Movement, and the Venus Project
 

Janet D

New Member
Anonymous Message To The Zeitgeist Movement And Venus Project ~ http://youtu.be/IHxOPIBSDq0 [Uploaded by axis4peace3 on Dec 3, 2010]

Well, now that's interesting. I have mixed feelings about anonymous, but their description of this movement as a cult seems pretty accurate to me.

Also, Peter Joseph is Charles Robinson is interesting ~ http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forums/topic/peter-joseph-is-charles-robinson#post-17057

Maybe I'll stop worrying about this! It looks like some powerful forces already have this one covered.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
any thoughts?

The Zeitgeist "documentary" is very popular with the CT’s I’ve known, and it’s been recommended to me many times since Part I came out in 2007. A good number of CT’s consider this film to be some sort of holy grail. I've never seen it. The people who’ve recommended it and the way they’ve talked about it have convinced me I probably wouldn’t appreciate it ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist:_The_Movie .

Any thoughts?

Janet D

Classic. Why don't you try watching it for yourself if you're so 'interested'? That might be a good place to start

It's like an AA meeting in here; maybe you're worried about recidivism?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
yup

911 was planned by the US along with Israel to delibertly (sic) murder 3000 of their own citizens just to motivate the population to support a never ending war against Islam.


Well, you were right about one thing. Well done, gold star for you.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
and what does that make you?

Typical anonymous Conspiracy Theorist... quotes something out of context for the purpose of making a point almost diametrically opposite to the original.

A named conspiracy theorist?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You are posting as "Unregistered", so you seem anonymous, even though you are daveb. It would be helpful if you could register, or at least be consistent with your name.

I might make it so people have to register to comment.

And that was a ridiculously out of context quote.
 
D

dolores

Guest
ever get the feeling you're being stalked?

You are posting as "Unregistered", so you seem anonymous, even though you are daveb. It would be helpful if you could register, or at least be consistent with your name.

I might make it so people have to register to comment.

And that was a ridiculously out of context quote.

Does it matter what my 'name' is?

Make it how you like it.

Yes. It's easy to make ridiculously out of context quotes. Maybe that was my point. It's even easier to ignore, and silence speaks volumes.
x
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I matters, because otherwise we don't know if one "unregistered" is the same as another, or if a new person has commented, or if you're deliberately trying to pretend ot be someone else. It's a needless distraction.

So you can either: A) continue to use daveb as a guest, B) register as daveb and use that, C) be banned. Your call, but if you post again as someone else, then I'm just going to ban your IP for a month.

If you've got a problem with a quote being used incorrectly, then describe what the problem is.
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
I'm very interested in this subject, the film, the movement, the people behind it, and I'm interesting in what and who is driving these "new" theories that so many people, most of them under 40 years-old, gravitate to.

Zeitgeist is ye olde communism now with computerz.

If you like communism, well, you'll enjoy it.
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
I’m hoping anyone reading this and has actually seen some or all of the film will comment and give me your thoughts.

I don't remember how i first stumbled upon Zeitgeist, but it was right about the time it was released. At that time, i had absolutely no idea about the world of conspiracies and conspiracists. So i initially watched Zeitgeist with my critical thinking levels at zero. I watched it as you would watch a hollywood movie. It was presented well (editing) and it seemed to make sense - and i emphasize "seemed", because my gut told me something just wasn't right about the movie. It seemed too convenient that all the information presented conveniently pointed to some kind of anarchic conclusion. It just felt like propaganda.

Anyway, my suspicions led me to do some research to uncover the truth. As part of my investigation i sent a copy to a family member to get his opinion. Long story short, this movie opened up a whole new world of conspiracies and conspiracists i never knew existed. On the flip side, this movie was the catalyst for my family member who fell deep into the rabbit hole where he still resides to this day, digging himself ever deeper.

I've been intrigued by conspiracists ever since. I absolutely love debunking the insanity and studying the psychology behind those who believe and especially of those who preach this stuff.

Amazing.
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
It seemed too convenient that all the information presented conveniently pointed to some kind of anarchic conclusion. It just felt like propaganda.

That's because Zeitgeist IS propaganda.

Definition : propaganda


prop·a·gan·da

noun 1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.


2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.


3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.


Origin:
1710–20; < Neo-Latin, short for congregātiō propāgandā fidē congregation for propagating the faith

In 1920's America it was very fashionable among young people to be a communist. Jacques Fresco one of the founders of the Zeitgeist Movement became enthralled with communism. He spent a lifetime promoting it. In the early 2000's he hooked up with a young failed New York musician who goes by the alias "Peter Joseph". The Zeitgeist films are the result of their collaboration.

When enthusiastic young Zeitgeist promoters invaded the rational economics forums a couple of years ago, the oldsters took it apart and showed them it was merely ye olde Nietzschean Übermensch communism, only now with spiffy techno goodness. They weren't happy about that reality. Many abandoned the movement. Only the True Faithful stayed.

Do watch the Zeitgeist movies if you've never seen them. They are very well done propaganda.

 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
That's because Zeitgeist IS propaganda.



In 1920's America it was very fashionable among young people to be a communist. Jacques Fresco one of the founders of the Zeitgeist Movement became enthralled with communism. He spent a lifetime promoting it. In the early 2000's he hooked up with a young failed New York musician who goes by the alias "Peter Joseph". The Zeitgeist films are the result of their collaboration.

When enthusiastic young Zeitgeist promoters invaded the rational economics forums a couple of years ago, the oldsters took it apart and showed them it was merely ye olde Nietzschean Übermensch communism, only now with spiffy techno goodness. They weren't happy about that reality. Many abandoned the movement. Only the True Faithful stayed.

Do watch the Zeitgeist movies if you've never seen them. They are very well done propaganda.


I see you get your definiton here....http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_propaganda_mean...or perhaps the author lifted the same definition as you .

Propaganda is information, ideas, or rumors that are deliberately, and widely, spread to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, or other similar entity.

There's a bit more to it than that. The word propaganda also confers a certain degree of factual inaccuracy; it is designed to deliberately mislead. The definition you offer doesn't really indicate that; the definition you offer is truncated and therefore incomplete. What your definition offers is a somewhat benign rendering of the word's meaning; what it says it that anyone propagating a certain idea is disseminating propaganda. Are we to have no views we can share without it being termed 'propaganda'? That's not right, of course. Should someone campaigning for water rights for indigenous Ecuadorian's putting up some posters explaining their campaign be labelled 'propagandists'? No. If a government or two put forward claims that a third country possesses say, 'weapons of mass destruction', and launches a campaign through the media to convince people that is the case, is that propaganda? Yes. It can be seen even more clearly as 'propaganda' when those claims made in that campaign are shown to be false. If you're going to make claims that something is propaganda then you'd better understand what that means, and that all should be judged on the same basis.

It was 'fashionable' to be a communist in the twenties, was it? Fashionable? Have you ever considered that people can make up their own minds around the politics they wish to adhere to? Did you ever consider that those people chose to be communists because they thought it was better than other idealogies?

rational economics
you say? Where?

the oldsters took it apart and showed them it was merely ye olde Nietzschean Übermensch communism
What?! 'Nietzschean Übermensch communism'? Do you have any idea what you're saying? Have you actually read/understood any Nietzsche work? What do you mean by this?

Here's a little tidbit on Nietzsche which may well be pertinent to the Zeitgeist idea;

I suggest you read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto for starters.
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
....Zeitgeist....It seemed too convenient that all the information presented conveniently pointed to some kind of anarchic conclusion. It just felt like propaganda.

Anyway, my suspicions led me to do some research to uncover the truth. As part of my investigation i sent a copy to a family member to get his opinion. Long story short, this movie opened up a whole new world of conspiracies and conspiracists i never knew existed......

I absolutely love debunking the insanity and studying the psychology behind those who believe and especially of those who preach this stuff.

Amazing.

Not that amazing.

It seemed too convenient that all the information presented conveniently pointed to some kind of anarchic conclusion. It just felt like propaganda.

Oh, and what is the 'anarchic conclusion' exactly? Why is it 'convenient'?

Anyway, my suspicions led me to do some research to uncover the truth. As part of my investigation i sent a copy to a family member to get his opinion. Long story short, this movie opened up a whole new world of conspiracies and conspiracists i never knew existed......

So your 'research' to 'uncover the truth' was sending a copy to a family member.

I absolutely love debunking the insanity and studying the psychology behind those who believe and especially of those who preach this stuff.

I must have missed it, which bit did you 'debunk'? How have you 'studied the psychology behind those who believe'? Or, given the phrasing, how could you study it? Do you know them?
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
The word propaganda also confers a certain degree of factual inaccuracy; it is designed to deliberately mislead.

To me the word "propaganda" implies the information has an agenda, that it is attempting to sway the reader's opinions in some way, not that the information is factually inaccurate or nefarious.

I lifted my definition off the first dictionary website I saw in a Google search. Where are you seeing this definition that propaganda implies misleading inaccuracy?
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
To me the word "propaganda" implies the information has an agenda, that it is attempting to sway the reader's opinions in some way, not that the information is factually inaccurate or nefarious.

I lifted my definition off the first dictionary website I saw in a Google search. Where are you seeing this definition that propaganda implies misleading inaccuracy?



I've got this thing I do, it's called thinking.

I suggest you look up Edward Bernays, a nephew of Sigmund Freud. Bernays is the 'father' of modern Public Relations (PR), he invented the term because 'propaganda' didn't sound very good. Bernays was an elitist liberal, and no rabid right-winger, but he believed that 'engineering public consent' was all part of a healthy democracy. Bernays helped to sell the idea of entering WW1 to Americans through the idea that it was a righteous and justified war, when it was no such thing, it was an unquantifiably evil and unjust 'cause'. When the democratically elected govt of Guatemala decided to take on The United Fruit Company over land rights and their monopoly, Bernays helped to garner support for action, by conjuring a non-existent communist threat in the media. The democratically elected govt of Guatemala was overthrown by a CIA backed coup in 1954, with much blood spilled. 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US has overthrown more than 50 govts, more than 30 of them democratically elected govts, since 1945, many with the help of such 'PR'. Bernays also helped with getting women to smoke in public - he labelled them 'torches of freedom' and had a bunch of debs strut up and down main st smoking. Nice work Ed. Just a hint of his idea that 'engineering public consent' is all part of a healthy democracy.


Anyhow, I reckon you might explain what your Nietzschean comment was all about, not to mention this idea you have of communism - do you actually know what that is?
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
I've got this thing I do, it's called thinking.

I'm glad you are able to think. You would be dead otherwise.

What were you thinking when you said: "The word propaganda also confers a certain degree of factual inaccuracy; it is designed to deliberately mislead".

Where did you get that definition? Is it just a definition you made up special for your own use?
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
I'm glad you are able to think. You would be dead otherwise.

What were you thinking when you said: "The word propaganda also confers a certain degree of factual inaccuracy; it is designed to deliberately mislead".

Where did you get that definition? Is it just a definition you made up special for your own use?

Yes, that's right. I keep it with your Nietzschean theory of ubermensch communism
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
I'm glad you are able to think. You would be dead otherwise.

What were you thinking when you said: "The word propaganda also confers a certain degree of factual inaccuracy; it is designed to deliberately mislead".

Where did you get that definition? Is it just a definition you made up special for your own use?

I highly recommend it - you could also try reading books, it helps.
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
I'm glad you are able to think. You would be dead otherwise.

What were you thinking when you said: "The word propaganda also confers a certain degree of factual inaccuracy; it is designed to deliberately mislead".

Where did you get that definition? Is it just a definition you made up special for your own use?

He wasn't thinking.
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
Yes, that's right.

At least you are honest. :)

The Ubermensch thing comes up when you ask Zeitgeisters how their proposed society will deal with citizens who don't abide the rules about sharing.

They reply that such citizens will not exist because people will have evolved via education into the archetypal Ubermensch / New Soviet Man / Rational Hero who would never even desire to be "selfish".

They ignore the mountains of historical evidence which indicate that attempting such an thing usually results in people being machine gunned into pits and mass starvation.
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
At least you are honest. :)

The Ubermensch thing comes up when you ask Zeitgeisters how their proposed society will deal with citizens who don't abide the rules about sharing.

They reply that such citizens will not exist because people will have evolved via education into the archetypal Ubermensch / New Soviet Man / Rational Hero who would never even desire to be "selfish".

They ignore the mountains of historical evidence which indicate that attempting such an thing usually results in people being machine gunned into pits and mass starvation.

I'd say that part of what you've posted could be classed propaganda. Who would a thunk it?
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
I'd say that part of what you've posted could be classed propaganda.

Oh heck yeah. I propagandize against the Zeitgeist Movement every time the opportunity arises because I believe that movement is a bad thing.

The difference between me and Bernays is that I'm honest about my motives, and I don't offer it as a service for hire to the highest bidder.
 

JeffreyNotGeoffrey

Active Member
i watched some of Zeitgeist. I got through the first part with out the bullshit meter ticking too loudly. Actually it was interesting and moderately compelling. Pretty quickly in part 2 the BS meter fried out and I turned it off. Then again that is how many slick CTs start. Begin by sounding reasonable and build to the crazy stuff. There is a reason why Scientology members have to spend years and lots of money to find out about the insidious Lord Xenu. If one isn't primed for it the whole idea becomes too out there.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Zeitgeist is by no means wholly accurate, but it's not without merit either. I also enjoy watching the guy's ongoing 'Culture in Decline' series, even though I find his efforts at humor extremely weak. So far as independent productions on these subjects go, he does pretty decent work. Janet D, you should honestly just watch the thing. Maybe you'll adamantly disagree with a majority of it, but if you're curious about it it makes far more sense to just give it a look rather than form an opinion on it based on the critiques of the hugely opinionated.

An independent documentary on the subject of 9/11 I find somewhat more compelling is this, [video]http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-conspiracy-solved/[/video] Far more cheaply made, edited, and narrated, much less rhetoric and a fair deal more fact. He makes some pretty damn bold accusations, and is obviously highly opinionated on the subject, but he doesn't spend much time moping around the moral outrage, and just offers up all the connections he's found for your consideration. If you think its bullshit, do some research maybe... if you think he's on to something, do some research maybe too. Never hurts.
 

Dave Richards

New Member
The Zeitgeist "documentary" is very popular with the CT&rsquo;s I&rsquo;ve known, and it&rsquo;s been recommended to me many times since Part I came out in 2007. A good number of CT&rsquo;s consider this film to be some sort of holy grail. I've never seen it.

Any thoughts?

Janet D

Hi Janet, I'm new to the forum, and this is my first post.

I happened upon 'Zeitgeist' shortly after it's release, and found it intriguing, but upon closer inspection, most of the content didn't stand up to scrutiny. Peter Joseph certainly made SOME money out of distributed dvds, but how much, I don't know - no dou t he had production costs.

However, for me, the most important aspect of the series ( as I understand it, 3 full docos and a bi-monthly series 'Culture In Decline') is that one of his focal points, namely fractional reserve banking, definately stands up to close inspection, and indeed, has been the beginnings of my education on money creation by commercial banks, and how their unstable 'house of cards' fractional reserve fiat currency system, has the world in a vice like grip, that will take a huge effort to correct, and will undoubtedly leave a trail of destruction as sovereign governments wrestle with the problems (bailouts, austerity etc).

Most of the details are contained in Zeitgeist Addendum, the 2nd doco in the series, which is well worth a look.
 
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