You guys ruined me!

[MaxisMad22]

I was an avid "hopeful" regarding the UFO/UAP subject.
I was always interested to see what new videos, pictures came up each day on reddit, youtube, but I have found "intelligent disclosure" to not really exist.
Even on the sites where the host or OP on reddit claims to be a skeptic, there is always an assumption that gets treated as fact to carry the conversation forward.

I have had issues with those assumptions, where most people seem to not want to dwell on them and just move along for the ride.

I have been reading different posts on here for the past 2 days, and though I never thought I would lean heavily on the debunking side of things, I see now how necessary it is.

If the "evidence" being presented each day wasn't misused, misrepresented, and then monetized, there might be room for intelligent and fair discourse. I have learned unfortunately, that by the time it gets posted to reddit or youtube, it's most likely not what is claimed due to the nature of both reddit and youtube.

Then...add in the government, the military, the grifters and.....you end up here. I dig it. I never thought I would, as "debunkers" are seen as close minded, hateful people, according to reddit ufo sites, and many ufo believers on youtube.

Glad to be here, feels a bit more real than the noise out there.

 

[Mendel]

Thank you for a very skillfully put compliment!
We're happy that you enjoy what we do here.
Welcome aboard!

 

[Mrs.A]

I was an avid "hopeful" regarding the UFO/UAP subject.
I was always interested to see what new videos, pictures came up each day on reddit, youtube, but I have found "intelligent disclosure" to not really exist.
Even on the sites where the host or OP on reddit claims to be a skeptic, there is always an assumption that gets treated as fact to carry the conversation forward.

I have had issues with those assumptions, where most people seem to not want to dwell on them and just move along for the ride.

I have been reading different posts on here for the past 2 days, and though I never thought I would lean heavily on the debunking side of things, I see now how necessary it is.

If the "evidence" being presented each day wasn't misused, misrepresented, and then monetized, there might be room for intelligent and fair discourse. I have learned unfortunately, that by the time it gets posted to reddit or youtube, it's most likely not what is claimed due to the nature of both reddit and youtube.

Then...add in the government, the military, the grifters and.....you end up here. I dig it. I never thought I would, as "debunkers" are seen as close minded, hateful people, according to reddit ufo sites, and many ufo believers on youtube.

Glad to be here, feels a bit more real than the noise out there.

The best reason to be here is that when there is something there, it will be here! We will be able to know!

 

[NorCal Dave]

I never thought I would, as "debunkers" are seen as close minded, hateful people, according to reddit ufo sites, and many ufo believers on youtube.

Hopefully as you see, that's a bit of a trope. Like any group we can get frustrated and occasionally offer up some snark, but Mick insisted on being polite, and having open and honest discussions, backed up with evidence. If anything, it's encouraged to be extra polite and respectful, even in the face of the accusations you mentioned.

I've often thought, if one was really searching for the "real alien UFO", the first thing to do is weed out the claims that don't cut it. I would think UFO people would be the biggest skeptics. Some certainly are, but in the public arena it seems to be very tribal with an "us vs them" mentality.

I think for many, it becomes a slippery slope fallacy. If this latest UFO claim isn't a "real" UFO, then maybe the one last week wasn't either. And if those are not real, maybe the big cases like Roswell aren't real. If that's the case, maybe none of the claims are real. That means no evidence of alien visitation and that's untenable. So, nearly every claim is embraced until totally and completely debunked, maybe not even then.

Welcome aboard.

 

[Smythe Bacchus]

One approach to skepticism is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is the natural counterpart to Occam's Razor where the simplest and most reasonable explanation is probably the most correct, unless proven otherwise.

Credibility of UFO research continues to be damaged by fantasists and grifters. Some with a saviour complex try to "blow the whistle" hunting for evidence of conspiracies, with more hearsay than credible evidence. "Disclosure" is always "imminent".

Ufology is largely a pseudoscience as most practitioners ignore or distort the scientific method, and label skepticism as "the enemy". Ironically skeptics and skeptical forums like Metabunk are closer to what "real" ufology should have delivered.

Skeptics may also be falsely labelled as illogical types who "don't believe" in extraterrestrial intelligence, implying that if you "do believe" then you should be ready and open to accept just about any claims that are being peddled as "evidence".

As a skeptic I "do believe" in ETI, I just haven't seen anything resembling real credible evidence that any ETI civilization is in simultaneous existence within our neighborhood, is aware the human civilization even exists, and can reach this planet.

Averaging one tenth the speed of light, to travel from one side of our Milky Way spiral galaxy to the other will take roughly a million years. It has taken 300,000 years for humans to develop our civilization, radio astronomy is not even 100.

Our ability to render our civilization instantly extinct with intercontinental nuclear weapons is roughly 50 years old. Our ability to pollute ourselves to extinction is ongoing. Will our civilization survive long enough to even be detected?

 

[yoshy]

Welcome aboard friendo!

I was an avid "hopeful" regarding the UFO/UAP subject.

I think many of us here would consider ourselves "hopeful" that one day we will have incontrovertible evidence of something extraterrestrial, whether here on Earth or even just an undeniable sign of life on a distant planet.

Even on the sites where the host or OP on reddit claims to be a skeptic, there is always an assumption that gets treated as fact to carry the conversation forward.

The skeptic subreddit is such a disappointment. It's just a circlejerk for skeptics to dunk on (sometimes truly insane) believers. There is rarely, if ever, any original research or debunking like you'll see here.

 

[tinkertailor]

Welcome aboard!

I never thought I would, as "debunkers" are seen as close minded, hateful people, according to reddit ufo sites, and many ufo believers on youtube.

Most of us are super passionate dorks who like the folklore behind the bunk as much as we like finding the rational truth behind the bunk. I get so nerdy about paranormal stuff as a skeptic that people often think I'm a true believer, because I know the factoids and find it fascinating. It's like how some kids like to listen to the radio and some kids like to take radios apart. The fun thing about being a skeptic, or even being vaguely skeptically minded, is that you can still enjoy content about bunky stuff. If anything, I get more joy by watching Ghost Adventures as a skeptic than I ever did when I was a believer.

 

[Smythe Bacchus]

@tinkertailor This is my favorite ghost story, alleged to have occurred in February 1953. Last known interview with the witness is below, originally released on DVD in 2008 titled "Ghosts of York" (full video):

Harry Martindale, the man who saw the ghosts of the Roman Soldiers in the cellar of The Treasurer's House in York, is interviewed by Richard Felix on the exact spot in the cellar where he had is experience all those years ago! Enjoy!!!

Source: https://youtu.be/G1pNXYw3V4M?t=370

Article:

Ghosts of Roman soldiers haunt ancient city of York

United Press International, January 19, 1977

Harry Martindale, a tall, handsome man in the traditional bobby uniform, is a vegetarian, a teetotaler and a nonsmoker.

He also is becoming a legend in his own time, written up in books, interviewed on British radio and television, and all because when he was 18 he saw not one ghost, but a whole army of them.

"I heard a sound the only way I can describe it is the sound of a musical note. It was just like a trumpet blaring out no tune, just a blare. At the same time, a figure came out of the wall. And the head of the figure was in line with my waist, with a shining helmet.

"I knew that it shouldn't be here and when I say that I was terrified, I mean that I WAS terrified," Harry said, speaking in a rich Yorkshire accent. "I fell off the ladder and scrambled into the corner... and from there I got a bird's eye view of what it was. It was the head of a Roman soldier."

Source: https://www.upi.com/Archives/1977/01/19/Ghosts-of-Roman-soldiers-haunt-ancient-city-of-York/6631571073639/

 

[Smythe Bacchus]

Ghosthunters (UK) S01E01 "Legends of the Legionnaires", aired April 14, 1996. Program starts with Harry Martindale and provides some archaeological detail. It also delves into the pseudoscientific Stone Tape Theory as one explanation.

Source: https://youtu.be/Q1JWMIB7gx0?t=86

 

[Fin]

interviewed by Richard Felix

Its a tough ask if you're expecting me not to lend credence to a man wearing white jeans and that incredible jacket! I'm only human.

 

[eleggua]

Stone Tape Theory, echoing the Stoned Ape Theory name, tho not the 'theory'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoned_ape_theory

Ghosthunters (UK) S01E01 "Legends of the Legionnaires", aired April 14, 1996. Program starts with Harry Martindale and provides some archaeological detail. It also delves into the pseudoscientific Stone Tape Theory as one explanation.

Source: https://youtu.be/Q1JWMIB7gx0?t=86

 

[Smythe Bacchus]

Stone Tape Theory, echoing the Stoned Ape Theory name, tho not the 'theory'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoned_ape_theory

@eleggua we are way off topic here!

Using my overactive imagination, the above two theories can be integrated with the quantum mind theory to produce a "metaphysical" explanation that can give the usual suspects a run for their money.

Imagine ancient mycelium (known to survive for thousands of years) buried in combination with the surviving archaeology, both present at the time of the historical event. The resultant mushrooms and spores produced could have "quantum psychoactive" properties, inhalation of which may induce a quantum connection in the mind to trigger perception of a time in the past.

Harry Martindale was halfway though his second day chiseling through a concrete ceiling of a basement that was apparently several feet thick, and likely poorly ventilated. If there was anything psychoactive in that room, he would likely have inhaled it. Even if there wasn't, the exhaustion alone may have been enough to trigger a hallucination with no metaphysics required.

Unfortunately there is at least once recent scientific paper which is hell-bent on spoiling my metaphysical theory:

Article:

Dr. Gavassino's findings, published in Classical and Quantum Gravity, present a strikingly different picture of time travel. They reveal that traveling through such time loops would prevent many classical time travel paradoxes, including the infamous "grandfather paradox."

Dr. Gavassino's study reveals that any system traveling through a time loop experiences a reset in entropy and memory, ensuring that causality remains intact and preventing contradictions like the grandfather paradox from arising.

One of the study's most remarkable discoveries is the erasure of memories for individuals or systems traveling on a CTC.

Source: https://thedebrief.org/time-travel-paradoxes-solved-new-study-shows-how-quantum-mechanics-prevents-changing-the-past/

 

[deirdre]

I was always interested to see what new videos, pictures came up each day on reddit, youtube, but I have found "intelligent disclosure" to not really exist.

you would likely enjoy The Black Vault. He doesnt get into the nuts and bolts of debunking to the extent of MB as he doesnt entertain every "look i saw a ufo!" (ie a blurry "light" in the sky) video put out on twitter or reddit or youtube, but for cases that have some potential to actually BE a UFO, he is intelligently skeptical in his examinations while always giving the benefit of the doubt -as he is a believer himself.

 

[MaxisMad22]

you would likely enjoy The Black Vault. He doesnt get into the nuts and bolts of debunking to the extent of MB as he doesnt entertain every "look i saw a ufo!" (ie a blurry "light" in the sky) video put out on twitter or reddit or youtube, but for cases that have some potential to actually BE a UFO, he is intelligently skeptical in his examinations while always giving the benefit of the doubt -as he is a believer himself.

I'll have to take a look....thank you for pointing me in his direction!