WTC7: Did the fires burn long and hot enough?

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muttkat

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When you only cherry pick something to get the answer you want, your conclusions will often be wrong

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center

debunked, let's move on

Not only that but there were OTHER seismographs in the area and I notice that they are totally ignored. I wonder why?

The FDNY head honcho seemed to think there were bombs in the building.

 

Jazzy

Closed Account
She is a bit too scientific for me but I guess she must be right because she has all those certificates and letters after her name and I couldn't argue with that. :)
The way she dragged her knuckles put me off some. One doesn't have to imitate her if one doesn't wish to. (Pre-expurgated). :)
 

muttkat

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Ah, Muttkat, Mynym, Wood and "dustiness".

It's possible to work out the height of a WTC tower when the air has been expressed from it.

Given the weight of a tower to be 450,000 tons and the SG of steel to be 7.81, the density of water 62.2 pounds per cubic foot. the length and width to be 210 feet and the height 1360 feet,.

The volume of the tower is 210 x 210 x 1360 = 6 x 10^7 cubic feet.

If it were solid steel it would therefore weigh 13 million tons. As it only weighed 450,000 tons, then the height of the steel alone would be 47 feet.

So 1360 feet becomes 47 feet.

How deep was the basement?

This is off the top of my head, about 7 stories.
 

muttkat

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Yep there are a few debunkers on here who persistently reiterate that bunk. Like you say... if he had admitted it, would the FBI not include him on their list for it. :)

Excuse me Oxy, I used to have that saved on my favorites on my other computer. Like I said he was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List for OTHER BOMBINGS but not for 911 and the reason being that they didn't have enough evidence.

Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.
In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.
"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.
"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html
 

muttkat

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It's just floor 8.

Read the report. They go into extensive detail as to how they figured it out.
https://www.metabunk.org/files/NCSTAR_1-9_WTC7_unlocked.pdf

I can only wonder being that data wasn't taken for 4 days and samples until Sept 16 how inaccurate the data out there is, it is, because being water was diluting all the evidence, if someone was to accuse of nanothermite, tritium levels being present, they are called whatever and laughed at by some. Responders PAH levels weren't taken until 22 - 24 days later, environmental samples of residential buildings in lower Manhatten were taken from Nov 4 to Dec 11,2001and stating everything is OK, thermal images not taken until Sept 16, EPA lied, now responders are dying because of it, the New York Times having to sue to get the responders statements about what happened, apparently their statements contradict the official story & they are ridiculed by various persons on this site. Being the Bush Administration lied about WMD in Iraq, it was planned, lied about not knowing we were to be attacked, how we were to be attacked, FBI thwarted from investigating terrorists activities pre 911 or gagged, 911 Commission, a year and 2 months later which changes the timing of 911, can't track hijacked jets but can track space junk thats the size of paint flakes, dumpsters spray painted airplane parts here,...... The fact that NIST's has published findings that have not gone thru the peer review process & reports its findings on collapsed events that have never happened in the history of mankind and for you people to use it as some kind of Bible just makes me sit back and think.........You people who believe the official story believe a group of people who have lied, delayed, murdered, prevented investigations, have used extremely shoddy investigating and???????
 
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muttkat

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I can only wonder being that data wasn't taken for 4 days and samples until Sept 16 how inaccurate the data out there is, it is, because being water was diluting all the evidence, if someone was to accuse of nanothermite, tritium levels being present, they are called whatever and laughed at by some. Responders PAH levels weren't taken until 22 - 24 days later, environmental samples of residential buildings in lower Manhatten were taken from Nov 4 to Dec 11,2001and stating everything is OK, thermal images not taken until Sept 16, EPA lied, now responders are dying because of it, the New York Times having to sue to get the responders statements about what happened, apparently their statements contradict the official story & they are ridiculed by various persons on this site. Being the Bush Administration lied about WMD in Iraq, it was planned, lied about not knowing we were to be attacked, how we were to be attacked, FBI thwarted from investigating terrorists activities pre 911 or gagged, 911 Commission, a year and 2 months later which changes the timing of 911, can't track hijacked jets but can track space junk thats the size of paint flakes, dumpsters spray painted airplane parts here,...... The fact that NIST's has published findings that have not gone thru the peer review process & reports its findings on collapsed events that have never happened in the history of mankind and for you people to use it as some kind of Bible just makes me sit back and think.........You people who believe the official story believe a group of people who have lied, delayed, murdered, prevented investigations, have used extremely shoddy investigating and???????

And I couldn't get to that site.
 

muttkat

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Banned
Floor 8 might not have had any fire at that level early on. It would take time for a well-insulated floor above a burning floor to actually catch fire by being heated from below. It looks quite possible to me. It is just the way fire spreads in an insulated building. Following Mick's reference should help you.

Or perhaps it was torched or blown up as Barry Jennings stated and that might of attributed to the fire. I would agree that there should of been a partial collapse but getting 2 building blown up and another having all the floors give out at the same time is BS.


There are different words here. "Cite" is a verb meaning to quote. "Site" is a noun meaning place.

I knew that.

Steel can be turned to dust only by evaporating it in a vacuum. That isn't possible except in a supernova. Your statement is wrong.

Your statement is only a half truth, nuclear reactions can produce similar reactions.

Evaporation involves two basic processes: a hot source material evaporates and condenses on the substrate. A underground, subsurface nuclear explosion is a very energetic hot source material especially in the fireball which can vaporize 1341 people, bend thick steel beams into horseshoe shapes, vaporize 45,000 desks, chairs, 3000 copying machines, 5000 copying machines,.... eject large pieces of buildings and embed it into other buildings.

A subsurface nuke explosion can also produce high temps, energetic radiation, intense electromagnetic fields...EMP, ESD's, melt door handles, engines,explode cars, which happened after the collapse of 1. 2, and WTC 7, fry electronics and most of the radiation effects were absorbed by the surrounding rock it vaporized and caused it to melt into globs of glass, people, steel, concrete, thus a piece being named "the meteorite." All these events which happened on 911. I'll prove it to you later if you don't believe it because you believe NIST.

When I looked up supernova I see the words shock wave, nuclear fusion, high temperatures, luminous, explosions....some of the things nuclear bombs do.


It seems to be somewhat later than 911.

Your story is only a partial story.

That were impersonating press photographers except they forgot to leave their 9mm guns, dynamite, and hand grenades at the Hotel Mexico, where they were staying. lol Yes somewhat later Oct 12th. Before 911 and after, there seemed to be "MOSSAD Gone Wild" in the USA, doing dope deals, going to homes, having explosive residues found in their vans from a fake moving company, going to offices of high ranking military ...officials, getting into mischief but in the end they were quietly deported after serving long jail sentences of 2 months or so. In this day and age its good to be Jewish.


[...] No.

The pictures that showed the steel beams didn't state that. A responder stated there was a firetruck about 20 feet or so underground at the WTC that was staying in a semi liquified state still burning. That would of been neat to see.

can be rephrased as



They are essentially in agreement with each other. The high volume to surface area would allow only very slow cooling, allowing the material to remain soft.

This point has no relevance to the collapses.

and when steel is subjected to temperatures in the 100's of 1000's, millions of degrees it gets real soft and has relevance to collapses which will be a guaranteed reaction.


This statement is FALSE. It has a partner with the suggestion that liquid fuel was recovered from a fire.

You are INCORRECT AGAIN, From the S H & E at Ground Zero

72,000 gallons of diesel fuel were stored in a tank (on basement level 7) for the WTC complex backup generator/power systems. Final status: The tank was eventually located and inspected. Although slightly damaged, no leaks were found. The fuel was removed.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
You are INCORRECT AGAIN, From the S H & E at Ground Zero

72,000 gallons of diesel fuel were stored in a tank (on basement level 7) for the WTC complex backup generator/power systems. Final status: The tank was eventually located and inspected. Although slightly damaged, no leaks were found. The fuel was removed.
Yes and 'Popular', (with the government and debunkers), Mechanics still has this bunk on their site to date:

NB Perhaps someone could induce them to remove the bunk... (even if it means closing the site as there is nothing left afterwards) :)
http://rense.com/general63/brutalpurgeofPMstaff.htm

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This thread is approaching retirement age. I'm going to do a little housekeeping, moving things into appropriate threads.

I'd like to encourage people to start new threads wherever possible. Long rambling threads like this are just chatting. Rather a waste of time.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
This is off the top of my head, about 7 stories.
If true, it's a wonder that any of it appeared above ground level, isn't it?

It should be apparent to anyone that the only steel "dust" to be found was that produced when a hundred and six floors scraped past fifty-odd core columns in a rather rough manner, and that apart from that maybe ton of dust, ALL the rest remained on site as wreckage.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
Yes and 'Popular', (with the government and debunkers), Mechanics still has this bunk on their site to date:

NB Perhaps someone could induce them to remove the bunk... (even if it means closing the site as there is nothing left afterwards) :)
http://rense.com/general63/brutalpurgeofPMstaff.htm


I was going to mention they're being related but you did it for me. I always thought they being related had something to do with Popular Mechanics inaccurate views.
 

muttkat

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It has gotten a bit messy but in fairness a lot of that was in response to direct questions.

Just to finish off on the fake OBL tapes:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bin_laden_tape_a_fake_swiss_lab_says.htm


Its amazing that a reporter was able to find Bin Laden in those hills but the US govt couldn't. At one time either Kenya or Sudan had him for the US authorities & the US govt didn't come get him.

"If Osama thinks he can hide and run from the US & our alies he will be sorely mistaken."--Bush jr 9/15/01

"I don't know where he is. You know I don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, and to be honest with you...I don't know where he is....I...I'll repeat what I said. I'm truly not concerned with him."--Bush jr
3-13-02
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
What reporter was that?

It bothers me when folks do the Jr thing with Pres. George W Bush 's name, since he isn't a junior. And I don't even like him, but it shows a dismissiveness of Facts to me. If you will do that to lessen him, then you do the same about others. This is not misspelling or grammar, it is altering the facts.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
Its amazing that a reporter was able to find Bin Laden in those hills but the US govt couldn't. At one time either Kenya or Sudan had him for the US authorities & the US govt didn't come get him.

"If Osama thinks he can hide and run from the US & our alies he will be sorely mistaken."--Bush jr 9/15/01

"I don't know where he is. You know I don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, and to be honest with you...I don't know where he is....I...I'll repeat what I said. I'm truly not concerned with him."--Bush jr
3-13-02
Would that be the same thing as stating King Obama or Nobama?
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
What reporter was that?

It bothers me when folks do the Jr thing with Pres. George W Bush 's name, since he isn't a junior. And I don't even like him, but it shows a dismissiveness of Facts to me. If you will do that to lessen him, then you do the same about others. This is not misspelling or grammar, it is altering the facts.

Oh, the reporter was Kelly.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
And if I have the time I'm going to excise the various conversations into separate threads tomorrow.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
If someone wants to continue a discussion, then start a new thread, and include a link back to the last post on that topic here. If necessary/possible I will move the preceding posts into the new thread.
 
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