Why Do Some Satellites show a "Hole" at the Poles? Hollow Earth? [Inclined Orbit]

Supreme Logic

New Member
Can anyone explain the reason as to why NASA would launch 2 polar orbiting satellites, but NOT scan the very center? where HE theorists believe the entrance is....

Here are some links to NASA that show what they call the "Polar Hole". They use this term in more than one PDF file, but I cant find the other one anymore....

They go further by describing how they simulate a scan of the center by using "interpolation" and "Gaussian kernal".

http://icesat.gsfc.nasa.gov/icesat2/publications/pubs_2010/abdalati_et_al_2010.pdf
(scroll to page 8)
20161102-081619-2dtrr.jpg

http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/visions/satellites/welcome.html#collab
(another example of the "polar hole")
20161102-082526-gk7rh.jpg

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/1209icesat.html
(general info)

https://science.nasa.gov/missions/icesat
http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view.php?id=86036
http://lasp.colorado.edu/home/mag/research/polar-mesospheric-clouds/
(more polar holes)
20161102-091246-dpw62.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Polar orbiting satellites are generally in inclined orbits to keep the orbit "frozen", if they did not do this then the orbit would drift. The most obvious reason to do this is to save fuel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_orbit
With some satellites, the inclination is picked to maintain a sun-synchronous orbit, so they pass over all areas of the earth at about the same time of day (and night, for the other side)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_orbit
ICESat is at 94 degrees which is not sun-synchronous, but is instead a "frozen orbit" closer to the pole. The actual orbit is picked based on exactly what they want to study, and constraints of the mission technology.

http://www.csr.utexas.edu/glas/Mission_Description/
 
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The Terra and Aqua satellites are inclined away by 8 degrees, but take images of a wide enough area that they cover the poles (assuming it's summer there). Here's yesterday's image of the South Pole
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.go...as=2016-10-18&ae=2016-10-27&av=3&al=undefined
20161102-083650-nq7a0.jpg

The North Pole looks like:
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.go...as=2016-10-18&ae=2016-10-27&av=3&al=undefined
20161102-083841-hhunf.jpg

Not because Terra is avoiding the North Pole, but because it's winter there. Go back one month and there's less
20161102-084020-jqgek.jpg

And two Months are we are back in summer:
20161102-084112-5nulc.jpg
 
Last edited:

Supreme Logic

New Member
Thank you for the wealth of info Mick, ill check it out thoroughly.

The thing that sticks out still is that they seem to admit that they dont scan the middle, and for that reason they use "interpolation" and "Gaussian kernal" to fill in the hole. (seen on page 5 of the PDF)
http://icesat.gsfc.nasa.gov/icesat2/publications/pubs_2010/abdalati_et_al_2010.pdf

Maybe im misinterpreting how "interpolation" and "Gaussian kernal" work??

Either that or its an effect of photo stitching. But there seems to be some inconsistencies.
Correct me if im wrong :)
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Not because Terra is avoiding the North Pole, but because it's winter there.
So you're saying the holes only open up in winter? :confused:

Seriously, though, that dark area is too sharply defined (and the wrong shape) to be accounted for by the darkness of the pole, so what's up? Are the orbits of the satellites shifted towards the summer side of the Earth throughout the year? Or do they just discard the data in the dark areas?
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
The thing that sticks out still is that they seem to admit that they dont scan the middle, and for that reason they use "interpolation" and "Gaussian kernal" to fill in the hole.
Correct. As Mick explained (and the caption on the first image you posted states) the pole itself is not covered because the inclination of the satellite is 94 degrees. So anywhere within 4 degrees of the pole (i.e 86 degrees south) cannot be imaged.

The ICESat satellite has an extremely narrow "field of view", only a few tens of metres on the ground, because it uses a laser beam to map the surface. It's not like a satellite with a camera that can take a wide-angle view. Those can cover the whole polar area, as in the Terra and Aqua MODIS satellite images Mick posted above.
 
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So you're saying the holes only open up in winter? :confused:

Seriously, though, that dark area is too sharply defined (and the wrong shape) to be accounted for by the darkness of the pole, so what's up? Are the orbits of the satellites shifted towards the summer side of the Earth throughout the year? Or do they just discard the data in the dark areas?

Seems like they just blank it off if it's not in direct sunlight. Probably they don't even transmit it. Look at the actual realtime image:
https://lance.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/realtime/
20161102-094933-gcuax.jpg
See the location of the image (red square on the small globe) covers the pole. But they don't transmit date from the visible images. However they DO transmit the Band 31 (infrared) image
20161102-095218-pz4y1.jpg

And you can see the Band-31 in Worldviewer. So there's no hole. Here I've overlaid it slightly transparent over the visible light Terra image so you can see the missing daylight region.
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.go...as=2016-10-18&ae=2016-10-27&av=3&al=undefined
20161102-095527-zglr8.jpg
 
Last edited:

Supreme Logic

New Member
Is there a reason why none of the satellites fly directly over the top?

Youd think at least 1 satellite would have a direct path

Below are pics of orbits (night) of every satellite on the list
 

Attachments

  • image-download.jpg
    image-download.jpg
    188.1 KB · Views: 493
  • image-download 1.jpg
    image-download 1.jpg
    197.7 KB · Views: 383

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Is there a reason why none of the satellites fly directly over the top?
Yes. It is described in the wikipedia article Sun-synchronous orbit.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Is there a reason why none of the satellites fly directly over the top?
I think it is because it would require too much fuel to freeze the orbit as it would need constant correction. By having an inclination it allows you to freeze the orbit with only occasional corrections.

It might also improve the resolution over the outer areas, like the ice shelves, which are of much more interest than the inner area. Since it's a narrow strip you need to have a criss-crossing pattern to get full coverage. If it was a full polar orbit the bands would never cross.

Either way, there full coverage via various other satellites, planes, and people viewing the areas on a regular basis.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Yes. It is described in the wikipedia article Sun-synchronous orbit.

And also in the article on polar orbits:

As I understand it, it's perfectly possible to put a satellite into a precisely polar orbit, but it wouldn't be all that useful, and it would be harder to maintain.


Edit: you can find a list satellites by their orbital details here: https://www.wmo-sat.info/oscar/satellites

If you list by inclination, you can find a few (not currently in operation) with an inclination of exactly 90 degrees.

upload_2016-11-3_10-46-3.png

The CLARREO programme appears to be on hold and may not ever happen.

IMAGE was in operation from 2000 to 2005, and was used to study the magnetosphere. It was targeted to have an inclination of exactly 90 degrees, and achieved within 0.01 degrees of this.




The closest orbit to the poles that I can find currently appears to be the two GRACE satellites, with an inclincation of 89 degrees.

 
Last edited:
This idea (that somehow NASA - who remember are the only people ever to launch a satellite ;) , are hiding something at the poles) became popular for a while amongst people who are fans of the idea of a hollow Earth thanks to photos like this:



from the late 1960s. This one is from my own book of daily weather images taken by an ESSA meteorological satellite from late 1968

They see a hole, they assume magical polar entrance to a hidden Earth. The real reason is the stitching process - particularly in these early satellite photos. This is one piece of the mosaic before it is compiled into one image:

 

BadWolf77

New Member
The Terra and Aqua satellites are inclined away by 8 degrees, but take images of a wide enough area that they cover the poles (assuming it's summer there). Here's yesterday's image of the South Pole
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.go...as=2016-10-18&ae=2016-10-27&av=3&al=undefined
View attachment 22325

The North Pole looks like:
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.go...as=2016-10-18&ae=2016-10-27&av=3&al=undefined
View attachment 22326

Not because Terra is avoiding the North Pole, but because it's winter there. Go back one month and there's less
View attachment 22327

And two Months are we are back in summer:
View attachment 22328
Hi, just come from a google search but wanted to query something about these images. Specifically the one that seems to debunk the hole, by showing the North Pole in summer with no hole.

Thing is, from what I understand, they admit fully to using an algorithm to fill in the centre. And that is clearly shown in that image at the centre where there is a jagged set of mountains around a very blank and featureless centre. Which to my mind is both very convenient but also means it also isn't quite as cleanly closed.

I'm not a blind believer either way. But some things don't quite add up on both sides and I'm keen to find fully reliable evidence one way or the other.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Thing is, from what I understand, they admit fully to using an algorithm to fill in the centre. And that is clearly shown in that image at the centre where there is a jagged set of mountains around a very blank and featureless centre. Which to my mind is both very convenient but also means it also isn't quite as cleanly closed.
Can you explain what you mean by "jagged mountains"? There are no mountains at the North Pole, because it is just sea ice.

For example here is a random date from last year during the Arctic summertime:

upload_2017-2-28_21-50-47.png

You can zoom right in on the polar area and just see an unbroken expanse of ice, with no artefacts that I can see:

upload_2017-2-28_21-52-2.png

You can try this for yourself here: https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.go...,197119.99999999953,-406528,643071.9999999995

If you scroll through a day at a time you can see the ice ridges and areas of open water moving with the icepack, just as you would expect.


Click the timeline at the bottom to change dates.
 

BadWolf77

New Member
Can you explain what you mean by "jagged mountains"? There are no mountains at the North Pole, because it is just sea ice.
Hi and thanks for replying.

I'm referring to the third picture on my post above, ("two months later we are back in summer").


As you say, in the very centre there's very little to see but to the bottom side of the centre where it moves into what looks like mountains, you can see what looks like shark teeth where the image has been repeated in something like photoshop. It's clearly not what it actually looks like, so it makes the rest hard to believe too. Somehow or other it's been 'corrected' or filled. Something they admit to doing. But that means the picture isn't true. And that leaves it open to doubts about how much they have 'corrected' or filled.

Cheers
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
20170301-092231-i11n0.jpg

This is made from multiple different images, each one a different pass over the North Pole. The full image is made from stitching together those images, so you get the lines where the clouds are different.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
I see Mick has beaten me to it. The satellite passes over the Earth in an inclined orbit so each pass is a little bit further around the Earth.



Those get stitched together to make the full image, and, as you have noticed, the clouds move between orbital passes, so they don't match at the joins. Nothing is being "made up" or added. It's just that the way the swathes are stitched together makes them all join up at the pole, so they are more obvious - like how the paper segments covering a globe all come together at the poles.

If you zoom in and look below the clouds at the ice, you can see that the sections match up a lot better (although still not perfectly), because the ice moves much more slowly than the clouds do.

upload_2017-3-1_17-33-35.png
 

BadWolf77

New Member
I understand what you're saying but as far as I can see the upshot remains that the image in the centre is unreliable. Are you going to tell me that "they can send someone to the moon but" not manage to stitch the images together properly? There are inevitable areas that aren't covered by the images as a result.

On the one side there are people desperate to believe there's a cover up. On the other, those desperate to believe what they're told is true. My own eyes tell me that the images don't match what's there and that there's a degree of doubt that the pictures don't assuage because I know they're not accurate representations but conveniently requiring trust for people I don't trust just because they say so.

That all said, the pictures are very helpful albeit inconclusive
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I understand what you're saying but as far as I can see the upshot remains that the image in the centre is unreliable. Are you going to tell me that "they can send someone to the moon but" not manage to stitch the images together properly? There are inevitable areas that aren't covered by the images as a result.

All the areas that are in sunlight are covered. And if you look at the Band 31 (infrared) images then it's all covered.

You can just look at the original pre-stitched images.
https://lance.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/imagery/realtime.cgi
(enter the date in the box, 8/30/2016 and press enter)
Hover over an image to see where it came from. Click for larger:


You can also view the tracks in Worldview
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.go...3577566,175541.87930828892,1066760.0549642243
20170301-130111-i6jdn.jpg
There's plenty of images that cover the pole.

You could stitch it differently, but that would just move the seams elsewhere.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
The holes at the poles thing goes way back. This is a cover from Flying Saucers Magazine - June 1970



The idea of the holes at the poles did not originate at this time with these photos; these photos were triumphantly put forth by the publisher and editor - the infamous Ray Palmer - as proof of a long existing theory.

His involvement with the holes at the poles theory went back to the '40's and the "Shaver Mystery." It started as a series of fantasy stories set in an underground world inhabited by robots, degenerate aliens, human slaves and so forth. Eventually the setting for these stories was revealed to be "real." I can't really do justice to the Shaver Mystery in such an abbreviated form. And then there was all the cross pollination between the Shaverites and some UFO believers.

By 1970 this was all kind of old fashioned, but the lowdown is that one "theory" was that UFO's were popping up out of the holes in the poles that lead to a second earth inside of our earth. Either the UFO civilization was indigenous to this second earth or the second earth was an alien outpost, or a long cut off alien colony... you get the idea.

But the whole thing goes back much further.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cleves_Symmes_Jr.

 
Last edited:

MrAubery

New Member
This idea (that somehow NASA - who remember are the only people ever to launch a satellite ;) , are hiding something at the poles) became popular for a while amongst people who are fans of the idea of a hollow Earth thanks to photos like this:



from the late 1960s. This one is from my own book of daily weather images taken by an ESSA meteorological satellite from late 1968

They see a hole, they assume magical polar entrance to a hidden Earth. The real reason is the stitching process - particularly in these early satellite photos. This is one piece of the mosaic before it is compiled into one image:

Dear One Big Monkey, What is the name of your book pictured here with the ESSA earth photos? I'd really love to locate and own this book. (impossible as it may be)
 
Apologies for the delay in replying.

The book is a hard copy of the Key to Meteorological Records Documentation No 5.320

Catalog of meteorological satellite data - ESSA 7 television cloud photography : October 1 - December 31, 1968

It's one of a regular series of summary volumes from ESSA satellites. This particular volume was published by the US Dept of Commerce in 1970. available to the public for the princely sum of $2. My copy was from a second hand store (online), and was originally in the library of Miami-Dade College.

This is a digital version of the book:

ftp://ftp.library.noaa.gov/docs.lib/htdocs/rescue/TIROS/QC8795C381970ESSA3-5-7pt2.pdf
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Mick West Debunked: "Blue Marble" Photos show a Changing Earth Flat Earth 40
Auldy Claim: Satellites show global warming pause continues by CFACT Science and Pseudoscience 13
Matt33 UFOs filmed from ISS. Starlink Satellites? UFOs, Aliens, Monsters, and the Paranormal 1
Mick West How to test if Satellites are real Flat Earth 2
Mick West Explained: "It's photoshopped because it has to be" Flat Earth 3
Astro Identifying Sun and Moon Transits Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 0
Priyadi Explained: Why We Don't See Satellites in Photos Taken From The ISS Flat Earth 1
Walter Bislin Checking the Oblateness of the earth with highres Satellite Images Flat Earth 1
Mick West Explained: "Satellite" crashing attached to a balloon [Google's Project Loon] Flat Earth 0
Mick West Full-Disk HD Images of the Earth from Satellites Flat Earth 94
Trajan How Satellites Survive the Temperature of the Thermosphere Flat Earth 74
JesseCuster Identifying satellites Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 16
Patrick Gonzalez Need help explaining: NASA images of Earth from 2017 eclipse show different shadow sizes Flat Earth 3
A Request: Show a spot of specular reflection transforming into a trail of specular reflection Flat Earth 4
Mick West Do Polls and Google Trends show Chemtrail Belief Declining? Contrails and Chemtrails 11
cloudspotter How Changing Weather Conditions Make Contrails Show Up Contrails and Chemtrails 9
mickbubbamack Ufos Spokane Washington air show July 2017 [Birds] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 3
Rory How to Show the Horizon is Below Eye Level, Using Actual Eyes Flat Earth 59
Mick West Explained: Why a Spirit Level on a Plane Does Not Show Curvature "Corrections" Flat Earth 98
deirdre PSA: Mick West discusses Flat Earth on Joe Rogan (JRE) show today Flat Earth 8
omaehamoushindeiru De-fisheye techniques for high altitude photography of earth show earth still curved Flat Earth 11
Mick West How to Verify Your Latitude and Longitude to Show the Earth is A Globe Flat Earth 5
izz Does this photo show a too-small hole in the Pentagon? [No] 9/11 28
Mick West Mick West on the Pat Walsh Show, KFBK Sacrament, Talking About Chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 7
D [NeedInfo]Persistent Contrails Picture Show Contrails and Chemtrails 2
Redwood Debunked: Google photos show Ottawa Parliament bullet holes are fake Conspiracy Theories 115
Leifer "Unsealed ....." TV show (@ Destination America - channel) General Discussion 13
Mick West Cloud Seeding (Weather Modification) on the Dick Van Dyke Show, 1965 Contrails and Chemtrails 47
NotQualified Claim: Pictures show Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi is a Mossad agent named Simon Elliot General Discussion 13
Balance Aerobatic Smoke? Smoke Rings at Air Show Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 38
MichaelStox Joe Rogan on the Alex Jones Show (On 9-11-2001) General Discussion 0
Leifer "Hacking the Planet", new cable show Science and Pseudoscience 8
Mick West Will chemtrails or covert geoengineering show up in varves, ice cores, or tree rings? Contrails and Chemtrails 503
TWCobra Excellent Video to show to Chemmies Contrails and Chemtrails 9
firepilot Does Roxy Lopez have callers on her friday internet show? Contrails and Chemtrails 0
JFDee New Podcast from NY Times: Rabbit Hole General Discussion 0
C My girlfriend,Jungian Personality Theory and the Rabbit Hole (Dealing with Relationships) Escaping The Rabbit Hole 1
Tim Printy UFO over Jackson Hole, WY Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 4
Mick West Tales From The Rabbit Hole Facebook Group Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 0
Mick West TFTRH #17: Willie - Rabbit Hole Escapee Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 0
Mick West Tales From the Rabbit Hole - A Mick West / Metabunk Podcast Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 20
Rory The Conspiracy Theory Spectrum Practical Debunking 12
Mick West JonExArmy and Escaping the Rabbit Hole Escaping The Rabbit Hole 38
HoaxEye My book review and my own rabbit hole Escaping The Rabbit Hole 3
Rory My brief flirtation with the rabbit hole Escaping The Rabbit Hole 8
Mick West Escaping the Rabbit Hole: Introduction Escaping The Rabbit Hole 21
Mick West What You Can do to Help Promote Escaping the Rabbit Hole Escaping The Rabbit Hole 18
Mick West Escaping the Rabbit Hole - Updated Endnotes and References Escaping The Rabbit Hole 0
George Tasker Using pin hole lenses to debunk CGI Rebuttals of Photos of Earth Curvature Flat Earth 7
deirdre Debunked: Lights chasing each other carving holes in clouds (fake video, fallstreak holes) Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 17
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top