Why are atheists among the least trusted groups?

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
Perhaps this is an odd fit for Metabunk, but it is postulated that the reason for the distrust is that they are 'other'... which is also one of the reasons that there such cohesion/community among CTer's (in this case 'similar'). I just thought that it may be an interesting conversation to have.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=in-atheists-we-distrust

"Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate, and atheists are rated as the least desirable group for a potential son-in-law or daughter-in-law to belong to."



http://asr.sagepub.com/content/71/2/211.abstract

"Despite the declining salience of divisions among religious groups, the boundary between believers and nonbelievers in America remains strong. This article examines the limits of Americans' acceptance of atheists. Using new national survey data, it shows atheists are less likely to be accepted, publicly and privately, than any others from a long list of ethnic, religious, and other minority groups."


AtheistPoll.JPG
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
"Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate, and atheists are rated as the least desirable group for a potential son-in-law or daughter-in-law to belong to."
The same people probably wouldn't want their son or daughter to marry a Muslim. Or a Jew or African American, for that matter.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
It is taken seriously in legal circles as there appears to be some juror bias to atheists. There are some good points in this blog raised

http://keenetrial.com/blog/2011/11/21/everyone-knows-you-just-cant-trust-an-atheist/

There is no logic in the thinking. If all religious people were automatically trustworthy we would not need a trial as their word should be accepted. Surely it is the atheist that is being the honest one as they have to ask for an alternative oath to swear. They could just tow the line like many "believers" bt instead show some integrity. As to how much of an issue it is is difficult to gauge I guess given the nature of a jury.
 

Joe

Senior Member
Perhaps this is an odd fit for Metabunk, but it is postulated that the reason for the distrust is that they are 'other'... which is also one of the reasons that there such cohesion/community among CTer's (in this case 'similar'). I just thought that it may be an interesting conversation to have.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=in-atheists-we-distrust

"Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate, and atheists are rated as the least desirable group for a potential son-in-law or daughter-in-law to belong to."



http://asr.sagepub.com/content/71/2/211.abstract

"Despite the declining salience of divisions among religious groups, the boundary between believers and nonbelievers in America remains strong. This article examines the limits of Americans' acceptance of atheists. Using new national survey data, it shows atheists are less likely to be accepted, publicly and privately, than any others from a long list of ethnic, religious, and other minority groups."


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they are only disliked because they work with the ACLU and file frivolous lawsuits attacking anything Christain . Nobody likes the ACLU or lawyers . same reson why Muslims rate low yet only a very small percentage are extremist . The same with the homosexuals as well . Or maybe it's just when you get sworn in on the phone book ? :) I would vote for a atheist any day over a fake christian anyday . Which is what most of our politicians are anyway . Look at the mormons their pretty low on he scale as well . No wonder why Romney lost ! :)
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Accusations of distrust and condemnation of atheists often show up in the home of religious families, when one or more members proclaim they are now atheists.
So it's no surprise it happens outside the home too.

 

Leifer

Senior Member.
(below....http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/religious-belief-and-societal-health/ by Matthew Provonsha, Skeptic Magazine, volume 12 number 3)

fig1_2.gif

The full study:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CEUQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fglobalhealth.washington.edu%2Fdocs%2FBezruchka%25202.pdf&ei=byCjUeqMIufziQKfh4CYDg&usg=AFQjCNGROFJbrJjYArFQZ5X6Sz45K-11Sg&sig2=hqiXKIi8DWTZF9tavcpuMA
 

Lost World

New Member
I'm not sure about this..

"Despite the best efforts of “pro-life” Americans, abortion rates are much higher in our Christian nation, and lowest in relatively secular ones such as Japan, France, and the Scandinavian countries (Figures 3 and 4). In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies (Figures 5 and 6). This would seem to indicate that there is a positive correlation between religiosity and dysfunctionality, but what does that mean?"

Are homicide rates and abortion rates higher among Christian communities? I wouldn't have thought so, so what part do the presence of these large US communities play on the broader ills in society? I've not read the full study, but it looks to me like someone may have set out with the intention of trying to make this point about religion in problem societies, and then juxtaposed facts that don't necessarily have any relationship, to 'prove' or at least assertively suggest a link.

I'm an atheist btw, and don't really understand the need for religion, but I suspect in any religious culture atheists are mistrusted by people who don't understand how people can live without some kind of faith.
 

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
Is it fair to say this is more of an issue in the USA by virtue of it's being a highly religious country. Here in the UK I don't think I've encountered anyone who felt discriminated against because of being non religious. Personally, I don't declare myself a non-believer in the same way that I don't declare myself a non-golfer. I certainly don't see myself as being a member of some quasi religion, so the content of this article seems a little odd to me. These non believers seem to be searching for something to believe in. The last word, from a local preacher, seems to agree....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21319945
What happens at an atheist church?
By Brian Wheeler BBC News Magazine Harry Cliff gives his science lecture at the Sunday Assembly in a former church


An "atheist church" in North London is proving a big hit with non-believers. Does it feel a bit like a new religion?
Not many sermons include the message that we are all going to die and there is no afterlife.
But the Sunday Assembly is no ordinary church service.
Launched last month, as a gathering for non-believers, it is, in the words of master of ceremonies Sanderson Jones, "part foot-stomping show, part atheist church, all celebration of life".
A congregation of more than 300 crowded into the shell of a deconsecrated church to join the celebration on Sunday morning.
Instead of hymns, the non-faithful get to their feet to sing along to Stevie Wonder and Queen songs.
Order of service


  • Theme of "wonder"
  • Congregation sang Queen's Don't Stop Me Now, Superstition by Stevie Wonder and Nina Simone's Ain't Got No
  • Screen on altar showed photo of TV scientist Dr Brian Cox
  • Reading by Dr Harry Cliff, a particle physicist, on the discovery of antimatter


There is a reading from Alice in Wonderland and a power-point presentation from a particle physicist, Dr Harry Cliff, who explains the origins of antimatter theory.
It feels like a stand-up comedy show. Jones and co-founder Pippa Evans trade banter and whip the crowd up like the veterans of the stand-up circuit that they are.
But there are more serious moments.
The theme of the morning is "wonder" - a reaction, explains Jones, to criticism that atheists lack a sense of it.
So we bow our heads for two minutes of contemplation about the miracle of life and, in his closing sermon, Jones speaks about how the death of his mother influenced his own spiritual journey and determination to get the most out of every second, aware that life is all too brief and nothing comes after it.
"I don't think I'm a charismatic preacher”
Sanderson Jones
The audience - overwhelmingly young, white and middle class - appear excited to be part of something new and speak of the void they felt on a Sunday morning when they decided to abandon their Christian faith. Few actively identify themselves as atheists.
"It's a nice excuse to get together and have a bit of a community spirit but without the religion aspect," says Jess Bonham, a photographer.
"It's not a church, it's a congregation of unreligious people."
Another attendee, Gintare Karalyte, says: "I think people need that sense of connectedness because everyone is so singular right now, and to be part of something, and to feel like you are part of something. That's what people are craving in the world."
The number of people declaring themselves to be of "no religion" in England and Wales has increased by more than six million since 2001 to 14.1 million, according to the latest census. That makes England and Wales two of the most unreligious nations in the Western world.
Atheists are getting more vocal, such as this ad campaign on London buses
Figures such as writer Richard Dawkins and comedian Ricky Gervais have made it fashionable to be more assertive about having a lack of religious faith and to think about what it means to be an atheist.
"There's no scientific answer to being virtuous, but the key thing is to have some kind of list on which to flex our ethical muscles” Alain De Botton
And writer Alain De Botton has unveiled a Manifesto for Atheists, listing 10 virtues - or as the press has already dubbed them "commandments" - for the faithless.
De Botton says he wants to promote overlooked virtues such as resilience and humour. He came up with the idea in response to a growing sense that being virtuous had become "a strange and depressing notion", which seems to chime with the Sunday Assembly's own mantra "live better, help often, wonder more".
He argues for a new breed of secular therapists to take the place of the priesthood and believes atheism should have its own churches, but adds: "It should never be called that, because 'atheism' isn't an ideology around which anyone could gather. Far better to call it something like cultural humanism."
There is a concern among some non-believers that atheism is developing into a religion in its own right, with its own code of ethics and self-appointed high priests.
Jones insists he is not trying to found a new religion, but some members of his congregation disagree.
Atheism unpicked



  • Word comes from a meaning without, and theism meaning belief in god or gods
  • Atheists believe gods are man-made myths
  • Some are not interested in organised religion, others distrust it
  • Atheist churches built in late 19th and early 20th Centuries as part of French thinker Auguste Comte's Religion of Humanity

"It will become an organised religion. It's inevitable. A belief system will set in. There will be a structure, an ethical outlook on life," says architect Robbie Harris.
He believes Evans and Jones have "a great responsibility" if the Sunday Assembly "continues to be as successful as it is now".
"There is a difficulty that it might become cultish and it might become about one person. You could set yourself up as a charismatic preacher, that's the danger."
Fellow congregation member Sarah Aspinall says: "I think Sanderson should step back and see himself as a mediator and an enabler, which I think he is obviously good at, and just bring people up to speak or read."
Jones says it is very early days and future assemblies will be less about him and more about the experiences of congregation members. He bridles at the suggestion he is starting a cult.
"I don't think I'm a charismatic preacher. I just get very excited about things and want to share that with people."
He says he has been overwhelmed by the public reaction to the Sunday Assembly and is exploring the possibility of setting up similar gatherings around the country.
"I wanted to do this because I thought it would be a wonderful thing," he explains.


Watch the Sunday Assembly

The Sunday Assembly certainly did better business than at the evangelical St Jude and St Paul's Church next door, where about 30 believers gathered to sing gospel songs and listen to Bible readings.
But Bishop Harrison, a Christian preacher for 30 years, says he does not see his new neighbours as a threat, confidently predicting that their spiritual journey will eventually lead them to God.
"They have got to start from somewhere," he says.
 
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pipanga

New Member
The full study:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...rFQZ5X6Sz45K-11Sg&sig2=hqiXKIi8DWTZF9tavcpuMA[/quote]


DUDE WHY DID YOU OMIT CHINA OUT OF IT.... ONLY IN CHINA THERE IS ABOUT 336 million abortions that means about all the population in USA... http://hotair.com/archives/2013/03/18/report-336-million-abortions-under-chinas-one-child-policy/
Although China has the fastest growing Christian population on earth. And Atheism is disappearing in China. Because Christians are increasing in a rate of 83 thousand followers per day and atheists and agnostics are losing 1000 followers per day doesn't really means that christians are preaching violence and crimes as means, in fact they preach love your enemies and don't do any crimes... Don't be biased guys.

...I saw a documentary on North Korea and the narrator for that documentary said that North Korea was the weirdest place on earth. I said to myself, the most friendly land towards atheism and evolutionism and the most unfriendly land towards biblical Christianity is also the weirdest. Go figure!

North Korea is a surreal country abounding in phoniness and propaganda. Sounds a lot like the ideologies of atheism and evolutionism, doesn't it? Given the bizarre behavior of many atheists/agnostics and evolutionists that I have seen, I cannot say that I am surprised...


And the cursory treatment of this issue (Atheism is disappearing) by atheists PZ Myers and Nigel Barber were absolutely a joke. Barber confidently proclaimed that atheism would prevail against religion by 2038 without providing detailed analysis. It's almost as if he picked the year 2038 out of a hat! I mean why not 2040? See: Atheism is rudderless and unseaworthy: http://questionevolution.blogspot.ca/2012/07/atheism-is-rudderless-and-unseaworthy.html
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
North Korea is a surreal country abounding in phoniness and propaganda. Sounds a lot like the ideologies of atheism and evolutionism, doesn't it? Given the bizarre behavior of many atheists/agnostics and evolutionists that I have seen, I cannot say that I am surprised...
How so? Got some examples of the ideologies of atheism and "evolutionism" that are "phoniness and propaganda"? Or their bizarre behavior? I'd like to hear about their bizarre behavior, Dude.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
An "atheist church" in North London is proving a big hit with non-believers. Does it feel a bit like a new religion?
.
As an atheist, I can say few things irritate me more than 'religious' atheism. Not believing in gods and ghosts and all that general silliness is rather different to my mind from the lack of gods and ghosts and all that general silliness as a system of belief.

As for why atheists go untrusted, that's an easy one. We're pretentious assholes. Not individually in every case/instance, but when viewed as a group, we represent the group that thinks all the other groups and all their passionate beliefs is generally a bunch of childish nonsense. I can imagine why that may irk people.
 

JeffreyNotGeoffrey

Active Member
One reason China was omitted (presumably) is that they have the One Child policy, so abortion is mandatory unless you want a tax hit. To my knowledge they are the only country on earth where abortion is mandated by the state. As to North Korea, they do have a religion. It is called their leader. If you think they are atheists and evolutionists, you must never have read or seen what those folk say. Everyone of their "great" leaders has had mythic meta-human abilities. Take their new leader. I believe of him they said that the first time he shot golf he got like 6 holes in one. Let's parse that. N00bs at golf tend to not even be able to swing the club properly, let alone drive the ball down course with anything like precision. I personally gave up on golf, because I sliced wickedly all the time and couldn't hit the ball unless it was on a tee. They really do believe in their leaders. The funerals for the Kim family have been exorbitant, massive affairs.
More on topic, the survey seemed to be of democratic states with a light hand on the repression lever. So hence why moonbat countries like North Korea and China were excluded.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Matter is unconscious – Stars, plants, animals, water, etc, are just material things and therefore do not and cannot have consciousness.
Matter is unconscious as consciousness is defined. Animals and plants aren't 'matter', they're incredibly complex amalgamations of matter into life-forms. Life-forms are, as defined, typically conscious... even plants to an extent, so they say these days.
Biological heredity – The traits of a species are composed of a physical material that resides in the genes.
Are you suggesting genetics is a pseudoscience?
  • Memories are stored inside of the brain as material traces – Stored somewhere in the proteins and nerve endings are the memories of the mind. Like a physical filing cabinet.
  • The mind is inside the head – The mind is physically bound to the head and brain in some way.
Anyone who's witnessed the effects of brain-trauma on cognition, memory, and even personality would be hard pressed to disagree with these notions in intellectual honesty.
 

Bill McDonald

New Member
Pipanga,
If a scientist could prove the existence of a god, she would in a heartbeat. This would instantly make her the most famous scientist in history, eclipsing Einstein and all the rest. On top of that, there is plenty of funding for such research. The Templeton Foundation, the Mormon church, the Vatican, and many more entities would happily dole out millions if not billions for such a proof. The reason no serious scientist is working on such a hypothesis is simple: there is not one shred of evidence for the supernatural.
 

pipanga

New Member
Matter is unconscious as consciousness is defined. Animals and plants aren't 'matter', they're incredibly complex amalgamations of matter into life-forms. Life-forms are, as defined, typically conscious... even plants to an extent, so they say these days.
Are you suggesting genetics is a pseudoscience?
Anyone who's witnessed the effects of brain-trauma on cognition, memory, and even personality would be hard pressed to disagree with these notions in intellectual honesty.
Im not saying genetics is a pseudoscience in fact Im proud of people like Gregor Johann Mendel (July 20, 1822[1] – January 6, 1884) was a German-speakingSilesian[2][3] scientist andAugustinianfriar who gained posthumous fame as the founder of the new science of genetics...


[Admin: large cut-and-paste removed]
 
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Bill McDonald

New Member
Science can explain what consciousness is. It is the evolution of the capacity to simulate reality. We like to attribute mystery to it, but it's not that complex. Evolution totally explains consciousness.
 

pipanga

New Member
Science can explain what consciousness is. It is the evolution of the capacity to simulate reality. We like to attribute mystery to it, but it's not that complex. Evolution totally explains consciousness.
Read more: http://powertochange.com/discover/life/five-things-science-explain/
 
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Bill McDonald

New Member
Read more: http://powertochange.com/discover/life/five-things-science-explain/
I would suggest that science does in fact explain all of these thing better than any other system. Denying that science can explain things like morality or consciousness is used as justification for the propagation of superstitious belief systems. But, today many atheists are demonstrating that one does not need religion in order to be moral.
 
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pipanga

New Member
What's your point pipanga?
My point is easy: pretty much everyone these days are shaping their belief system around Scientific Dogmas, these dogmatic people can not even recognize that they are dogmatic, and will find that prerogative completely outrageous. The same thing is happening with science.

“It is clear from the historical record that the Catholic church has been probably the largest single and longest-term patron of science in history, that many contributors to the Scientific Revolution were themselves Catholic, and that several Catholic institutions and perspectives were key influences upon the rise of modern science.” (Jesus of Nazareth vol I by Joseph Ratzinger)


But since the 19th century, modern europe: the first society that created a (lack of) culture with out religion in its core, and with the help of some masons, agnostics and atheists, they turned science even more fundamentalist. So how can you people expect trustworthiness when you rely specifically in guys who not only attack culture (religion) often, but who also relies on fundamentalism and dogmas?... That has its consequences and they are not pretty.. for more information on those consequences go to http://americangrace.org/paperback.html
 

JeffreyNotGeoffrey

Active Member
Am I the only one who finds the whole claim "animal are just matter and therefore don't have consciousness" completely silly? My dog (the best chiweenie in the world) is matter. She however seems quite conscious most of the time. I am not speaking merely of her being awake or not. She understands, knows, and remembers things. She even dreams although I will not guess what it is she dreams of that makes her whimper like she does. She recognizes me and remembers situational commands such as "Car" for when we are working and I want her back in the car. Or another example is "other side" for when she has crossed her leash behind me. With "other side" she moves to my other side to make walking easier and less hazardous. Scientists (evil things that they are) have even noted several animals who display self awareness which would seem to be basically "consciousness." So can we try that again. Our furry friends are aware of many things and probably a lot more than we give them credit for.

A little more on topic, I think atheists are distrusted because people erroneously think that without a god or gods there is no morality system. Or to put it another way, is the threat of hell the only thing keeping good Christians from murdering their neighbors and having sex with their own children? The answer for me is that civil society doesn't turn into Caligula's wet dream if you remove religion.
 
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Jazzy

Closed Account
Am I the only one
No, you're not. All animals are as conscious as we are. (That may not amount to much.)

We are animals. We are mammals. We are apes. We are apes that have a language, a lexicon, and can speak and write our language.

If we had any sense of responsibility at all, we would care for other animals, especially mammals, for we think like they do and enjoy life and suffer pain with the exact same senses they do.

If.

But if you're religious, you don't have to worry about all that, and your luck will be better next time. Har, har.

That's a fubar... (Laughs until dies...)

Trust someone religious? I'd rather trust an animal. Large predators somewhat excepted...
 
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Bill McDonald

New Member
Am I the only one who finds the whole claim "animal are just matter and therefore don't have consciousness" completely silly? My dog (the best chiweenie in the world) is matter. She however seems quite conscious most of the time. I am not speaking merely of her being awake or not. She understands, knows, and remembers things. She even dreams although I will not guess what it is she dreams of that makes her whimper like she does. She recognizes me and remembers situational commands such as "Car" for when we are working and I want her back in the car. Or another example is "other side" for when she has crossed her leash behind me. With "other side" she moves to my other side to make walking easier and less hazardous. Scientists (evil things that they are) have even noted several animals who display self awareness which would seem to be basically "consciousness." So can we try that again. Our furry friends are aware of many things and probably a lot more than we give them credit for.

A little more on topic, I think atheists are distrusted because people erroneously think that http://waverider1.wordpress.com a god or gods there is no morality system. Or to put it another way, is the threat of hell the only thing keeping good Christians from murdering their neighbors and having sex with their own children? The answer for me is that civil society doesn't turn into Caligula's wet dream if you remove religion.
One by one, the things that differentiate man from animals have fallen by the way. Tool use, language, and now consciousness itself are no longer seen as belonging to man alone. Now we are beginning to see that all such things are part of a continuum. In other words they are all relative. I think we can include morality in this as well.
 

pipanga

New Member
Due to attention spam and lack of respect for collaboration is hard to keep this whole thing more interesting. Anyways, I hope atheists find a way to convince their leaders to stop making their followers look worse than religious fanatics. It all comes down to that. While there are tons of religious, and agnostics, and atheists in power who often change their religious beliefs to achieve their goals and interests, you guys have to realize that only the best from each religious groups are actually people who practice their religion at its 100%. That means in real numbers: Jewish only 1% fully practices it (rabbis), Catholics around 30%, Atheists 1% (The rest wants to stay biased and will never open a book written by a pope or a theologist, apologist, or encyclical letters and yada yada yada..). Even me as a human being, I cant stay biased myself so Im constantly reading and updating myself on what the intellectuals from any field is saying, and trying to see if its something good or not. Ps: Relativity is a field that is losing reliability these days now with Quantum Physics and mechanics. It was just reinforced in schools which BTW are obsolete now.
 

clipstreu

New Member
The same people probably wouldn't want their son or daughter to marry a Muslim. Or a Jew or African American, for that matter.
From ABCNews

More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers from the University of Minnesota.

Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.
 
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