What British Muslims think about 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

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Obviously, with questions like [Has the 9/11 Truth Movement Stagnated?] it depends how you frame the question and who you ask. The focus on that thread so far has been on Facebook activity, or online activity, in relation to the group A&E911 and similar organisations.

But if you focus on specific areas of society and actually survey those people with well designed questions, instead of speculating about online activity or lack of same, you will naturally find different results.

For example, a large and recent survey of the attitudes of Muslims living in the UK revealed that in the specific matter of 9/11, the very general message of the "Truth Movement" has more than 90% acceptance.

IMG_20171007_191245.jpg
https://policyexchange.org.uk/publi...ging-a-survey-of-britains-muslim-communities/

(This pie chart can been seen on p75 of the PDF).

Clearly, we can speculate why British Muslims feel this way about 9/11 when they identify as British in a patriotic sense, and in other respects are broadly in agreement with British society (on subjects like secularism, for example). But for whatever reason, it is evident that the official 9/11 story does not persuade many in this particular group -- and I would suggest that it now never will.
 
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A survey of the attitudes of Muslims living in the UK revealed that in the specific matter of 9/11, the very general message of the "Truth Movement" has more than 90% acceptance.
Where does the 90% figure come from? I make it 44%, with 56% for either Al-Qaeda or "don't know".

PS Great report, that - very readable and enlightening.
 
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...
Conclusion:

We live on a planet of idiots. 9/11 is probably trivial compared to what will most likely happen to the climate in the next 50 years.

psik
9/11 is not trivial, 9/11 truth was.

We? I live on a planet which had/has outstanding people. Mozart, Einstein, and the list goes on, and on. If I were "We", I would take the next spacecraft off of the "planet of idiots", and Join the planet of Bach, and the Beatles. We also have great English Walnuts on earth, and rocky road ice cream. And we have beer, compare beer to 9/11 truth, or Building 7.

...
For example, a large and recent survey of the attitudes of Muslims living in the UK revealed that in the specific matter of 9/11, the very general message of the "Truth Movement" has more than 90% acceptance.
...
Nope, not more than 90 percent, only 52 percent share the exact same message as most of 9/11 truth, "Did Not Know", clueless, the general message of 9/11 truth fantasy of an inside job false flag CD, et al. I did not know the the general message of 9/11 truth is Jews did it, and US government did it? Where is the logic in declaring people believe in the fantasy of CD, the general message of 9/11 truth? Other, who is other? Is other, beam weapons, nukes, done by the "other". A new Stephen King novel, the "other".

Only four percent got the question right. 96 percent wrong or don't have a clue. This is why we don't vote for the answers to math and physics questions.
 
Obviously, with questions like this it depends how you frame the question and who you ask. The focus on this thread so far has been on Facebook activity, or online activity, in relation to the group A&E911 and similar organisations.
I for one have focussed on groups that claim to be part of the 9/11 Truth Movement, to the extent that they are visible and have something to measure.

But if you focus on specific areas of society and actually survey those people with well designed questions, instead of speculating about online activity or lack of same, you will naturally find different results.
Sure, but such segments of society are NOT the 9/11 truth Movement! So such a survey, while interesting in its own right, fails to address the thread topic.

For example, a large and recent survey of the attitudes of Muslims living in the UK ...
I.e. NOT the 9/11 Truth Movement

...revealed that in the specific matter of 9/11, the very general message of the "Truth Movement" has more than 90% acceptance.
No, completely false! Reveals widespread ignorance of the subject matter, with 52% admitting they don't know, and a further 44% demonstrating that they don't know.


However, on Page 73: "A plurality of respondents in our Muslim-only survey (40%) agreed that [conspiracy theories, such as 9/11] were utilised by ‘extremists’ to try and dupe Muslims into supporting their views". (My bolding)

Clearly, we can speculate why British Muslims feel this way about 9/11 when they identify as British in a patriotic sense, and in other respects are broadly in agreement with British society (on subjects like secularism, for example). But for whatever reason, it is evident that the official 9/11 story does not persuade many in this particular group -- and I would suggest that it now never will.
Yes. Since non-Muslims respond in a drastically different manner (a large majority correctly identifying AQ as the guilty party), I think it is fair to speculate that them being Muslims has something to do with that result. I speculate that they feel attacked or ashamed that muslims did 9/11, and are thus incetivized to deny muslim agency.


One last remark: The Thread Topic - "Has the 9/11 Truth Movement stagnated?" asks about a development over time: In recent years, has the Truth Movement, by whatever metrics, grown, shrunk, or stayed about the same?
The survey you point to was taken at one spot in time - no time series, no comparison of today with some earlier date. And hence, it fails to enlighten the thread topic.
 
As every social scientist knows, how people interpret survey data of this kind often reveals rather more about the prejudices and attitudes of those doing the analysis than it does of the group surveyed. Rigorous intellectual hygiene is required to guard against this (not generally a feature of internet forums and certainly not of this one).

For example, you cannot say with confidence that the survey respondents who answered "do not know" to the question "who was responsible for 9/11" are "clueless" or "ignorant of the subject matter". That is purely supposition -- and a stubborn determination to refuse and reject every suggestion of error in your own world view -- revealing an aggressive and unreflective attachment to the official narrative.

Saying you "do not know" could also be interpreted as an intellectually honest response to the question made with full understanding of the official story but without conviction in it. One might feel, for example, that the official story is as reliable as the claims Saddam had WMD -- or one might merely observe that the USA rapidly moved to destroy Baghdad in response to 9/11 instead of, say, Riyadh.

Others may choose to exploit this cognitive gap or perceived weakness by mockingly indulging in reductio ad absurdum and the like, perhaps because they are so wedded to their own beliefs and convinced that they have the answer to everything. I myself am happy to admit I do not know much about how 9/11 really happened; I merely observe that every single scientific experiment investigating how towers collapse supports my view that such structures never rapidly explode to the ground under the force of fire/impact/gravity.

Similarly, there is nothing in the survey to support the inference that the surveyed British Muslims are ashamed and deny Muslim agency for that reason. It could be that Muslims indeed feel attacked by the official 9/11 narrative, but for that reason have examined it in much greater detail and with far more skepticism than other groups. This may have led them to very good grounds for rejecting the official story (and insofar as there are good grounds for rejecting it, this does indeed represent dangerous potential for radicalisation).

All we can say with confidence from these recent (2016) survey results is that more than 90% of respondents reject the official story that AQ/Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Why they did so was not formally investigated by the survey, although there are some responses from focus groups detailed in the report. However, it is purely in their rejection of the official narrative that I am suggesting these respondents have anything in common with the "truth movement".
 
All we can say with confidence from these recent (2016) survey results is that more than 90% of respondents reject the official story that AQ/Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
I was with you - for a large part - until that last paragraph, where you seem to have totally contradicted your earlier appeal for an adherence to a "rigorous intellectual hygiene".

All we can say with confidence from that survey question is that 44% of respondents provided answers that were at odds with the 'official story'; 4% provided answers that agreed with the 'official story'; and 52% said they "didn't know".

It's just as likely that they genuinely didn't know as anything else. Equating saying "I don't know" with "rejecting the official story" - or, indeed, with those respondents being "clueless" - is inferring something that clearly isn't there. We simply "don't know" why they said "don't know" and have to leave it at that.

Be happy with 44% - that's still a pretty staggering percentage, if you ask me.
 
inferring something that clearly isn't there.
I disagree, but I don't want to get too diverted by this secondary discussion. However, one must clearly infer that al-Qaida/the official story was there on the questionnaire: an option for the survey's respondents to read and consider among their responses. Only 4% accepted it. Why 96% do not accept it is a matter for speculation, but I would go so far as to say I think it's unlikely that more than half of the respondents were totally unaware that the 9/11 attacks were attributed by the US government to Islamic extremists.
 
I disagree, but I don't want to get too diverted by this secondary discussion. However, one must clearly infer that al-Qaida/the official story was there on the questionnaire: an option for the survey's respondents to read and consider among their responses. Only 4% accepted it. Why 96% do not accept it is a matter for speculation, but I would go so far as to say I think it's unlikely that more than half of the respondents were totally unaware that the 9/11 attacks were attributed by the US government to Islamic extremists.
I think you might have to get diverted by it, if you insist on persisting with the the 90% claim.

By the way, I study and write reports like this for a living.

First thing would be to look at a copy of the survey: was "al-Qaeda there on the questionnaire", as you say we can "clearly infer"? It may well have been; but maybe not.

And, again, it is not possible to say "96% do not accept [the official story]" - not, that is, if you want to be intellectually honest.

As for what people are unaware of, I'm never surprised.
 
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But for whatever reason, it is evident that the official 9/11 story does not persuade many in this particular group
I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion from the data. The question was "who was responsible for 9/11?", answering "the US Government" does not necessarily mean an individual does not accept the official story, the individual may simply believe that the US Governments actions in the middle east in the decades preceding 9/11 are what provoked the attack, and in their mind that makes the US responsible.
 
I think you might have to get diverted by it, if you insist on persisting with the the 90% claim.

By the way, I study and write reports like this for a living.

First thing would be to look at a copy of the survey: was "al-Qaida there on the questionnaire", as you say we can "clearly infer"? It may well have been; but maybe not.

And, again, it is not possible to say "96% do not accept [the official story]" - not, that is, if you want to be intellectually honest.

As for what people are unaware of, I'm never surprised.
Very well; I'm not going to argue about it. It is a shame that the questionnaire was not included in the report, and although I think both the introduction and the conclusion somewhat support my point of view, I am as happy to accept that my interpretation is flawed as am willing to point out the flawed reasoning and interpretations upthread.
 
I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion from the data. The question was "who was responsible for 9/11?", answering "the US Government" does not necessarily mean an individual does not accept the official story, the individual may simply believe that the US Governments actions in the middle east in the decades preceding 9/11 are what provoked the attack, and in their mind that makes the US responsible.
That's a fair point, but certainly not one implicit in the interpretation of the report's authors, based on their opening and closing remarks.
 
This appears to be the ICM poll used to gather the data - with apologies for not following the no-click policy as I’m mobile at the moment.

https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Policy-Exchange-ICM-Muslims-Survey-web.pdf

I’m a little confused by the Policy Exchange summary, since the results for the direct question on ‘Who did 9/11” look to be 71% for Al-Quaeda, 13% USA/Jews/Other:

The cohort is also ~2000 not 3000, Maybe Policy Exchange combined datasets?

9/11 CT questions are at the very end of the report.

Ray Von

ETA to confirm those are the control group responses, that section is titled ‘conspiracy theories’ and is missing the ‘control group’ header as used to identify the other sections.
 
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I’m a little confused by the Policy Exchange summary, since the results for the direct question on ‘Who did 9/11” look to be 71% for Al-Quaeda, 13% USA/Jews/Other:

The cohort is also ~2000 not 3000, Maybe Policy Exchange combined datasets?
You're reading for the Non-Muslim control group. See below.
I disagree, but I don't want to get too diverted by this secondary discussion. However, one must clearly infer that al-Qaida/the official story was there on the questionnaire: an option for the survey's respondents to read and consider among their responses. Only 4% accepted it. Why 96% do not accept it is a matter for speculation, but I would go so far as to say I think it's unlikely that more than half of the respondents were totally unaware that the 9/11 attacks were attributed by the US government to Islamic extremists.
Fair enough.

Also in that survey is the data taken from 2,047 non-Muslims - the 'control group' - whose results were as follows:

control group.JPG

That's quite a different set of responses. And I suppose if you wanted to you could add the two together and get something of a picture as to who British people as a whole thought was responsible for 9/11 (with some weighting factored in, given that of the 5,087 survey respondents 60% were Muslim, whereas Muslims actually make up around 4.8% of the population).

Tell you what: I'll whip a table up real quick.

911 table.JPG

Et voila - that's who British people think did 9/11.
 
You're reading for the Non-Muslim control group. See below.
Fair enough.

Also in that survey is the data taken from 2,047 non-Muslims - the 'control group' - whose results were as follows:

control group.JPG

That's quite a different set of responses. And I suppose if you wanted to you could add the two together and get something of a picture as to who British people as a whole thought was responsible for 9/11 (with some weighting factored in, given that of the 5,087 survey respondents 60% were Muslim, whereas Muslims actually make up around 4.8% of the population).

Tell you what: I'll whip a table up real quick.

911 table.JPG

Et voila - that's who British people think did 9/11.
Yeah just sussed and ETA’d my post - cheers.

Ray Von
 
Thanks, Rory -- appreciate your analysis. It's quite surprising to see that as much as 10% of the British people think the US government orchestrated 9/11. I would love to be able to drill down further into this and find out more about the age, education, class and so on of this group.

Even though I'm deeply skeptical of the official 9/11 narrative, I wouldn't personally respond to a survey like this by saying I think the US government as a whole was definitely, directly responsible for the attacks. I'm a don't know, as in: I just don't know how this was done.
 
Thanks, Rory -- appreciate your analysis. It's quite surprising to see that as much as 10% of the British people think the US government orchestrated 9/11. I would love to be able to drill down further into this and find out more about the age, education, class and so on of this group.
All the demographic stats and the questions asked are listed in the survey results linked above.

I do see a potential problem with the phrasing of the question “Who do you believe was responsible for 9/11?”, particularly with the non-Muslim control group. it could be interpreted by those who believe the attacks were a direct response to the West (US and UK) attitudes to the Middle East, a not uncommon belief here in the UK. “Who do you believe carried out the 9/11 attacks?” Would have been a much better question I think.

Ray Von
 
It's quite surprising to see that as much as 10% of the British people think the US government orchestrated 9/11.
"Responsible for" does not equal "orchestrated"

If a man is convicted of murder and executed in the US who orchestrated the man's execution? And who is responsible?

The answer to the first question is the State Authorities. The answer to the second could be the murderer, the jury, the judge, the governor, the citizens of the state, the federal authorities or all US citizens depending on your perspective

You aren't wrong in that you qualify your analysis with "up to" but I could equally conclude that up to 10% of the British public think the US Government provoked the attack.
 
"Responsible for" does not equal "orchestrated"

If a man is convicted of murder and executed in the US who orchestrated the man's execution? And who is responsible?

The answer to the first question is the State Authorities. The answer to the second could be the murderer, the jury, the judge, the governor, the citizens of the state, the federal authorities or all US citizens depending on your perspective

You aren't wrong in that you qualify your analysis with "up to" but I could equally conclude that up to 10% of the British public think the US Government provoked the attack.
I concede this point as I did upthread. No doubt Rory could expand on the importance of precise language and well designed questions in surveys. I suppose we can be reasonably confident that there will be other, similar surveys of this nature in years to come.
 
Thanks, Rory -- appreciate your analysis. It's quite surprising to see that as much as 10% of the British people think the US government orchestrated 9/11. I would love to be able to drill down further into this and find out more about the age, education, class and so on of this group.

Even though I'm deeply skeptical of the official 9/11 narrative, I wouldn't personally respond to a survey like this by saying I think the US government as a whole was definitely, directly responsible for the attacks. I'm a don't know, as in: I just don't know how this was done.
That's a commendable attitude: I think "don't know" is often the most honest - and therefore 'correct' - answer to a lot of questions, and it's enlightening how seldom it's used.

As for the British public, a quick search on what they have been reported to believe by surveys:
  • 52% believe in aliens
  • 39% believe a house can be haunted
  • 34% have 'low trust' in the monarchy
  • 30-34% believe in ghosts or spirits
  • 29% believe in 'some sort of God' (61% described themselves as 'religious', but 61% also felt 'religion was a negative influence in the world')
  • 22% believe humans are not responsible for climate change
  • 18% say there are no aliens because 'humans were created by God'
  • 17% believe Lee Harvey Oswald didn't assassinate JFK
  • 15% believe humans have made contact with aliens (but 17% believe alien contact has been covered up by the government)
  • 12% believe in witches and wizards
  • 12% or 35% or 52% thought the moon landings were a hoax
  • 12% believe in creationism
  • 11% have a 'zombie plan'
  • 11% think the US government was responsible for 9/11
  • 10% believe the Loch Ness Monster is real
  • 9% believe they have communicated with the dead
  • 8% believe in fairies
  • 8% believe in bigfoot
  • 4% believe climate change is not happening
I post this to provide some context to the figure of 14% of the British public who think someone other than al-Qaeda was responsible for 9/11. If anything, that figure seems quite low. (Of course, public surveys like these should be taken with a whole salt cellar of salt - though I did ensure all the ones quoted had a sample size of at least 1000.)
 
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Presumably the British public can also be shown to have some attitudes that are generally held to be true, too.

[off topic material removed]
 
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There's another possible explanation for the low "Al-Qaeda" and high "Don't know" response to the 9/11 question. Whilst the report has graphs which show metrics for a response of Al-Qaeda, and mentions "al-Qaeda or some other analogous group", the response to the question participants were offered according to the ICM survey document was "Al-Qaeda/Muslim terrorists".

I see several reasons why inclusion of "Muslim" in the answer would present issues for Muslim respondents, not least an unwillingness to associate the attackers with their own religion/group and a reluctance to acknowledge they would consider the attackers were actually Muslim.

Ray Von
 
Presumably the British public can also be shown to have some attitudes that are generally held to be true, too.
Sure. Just subtract each of those numbers from, say, 80 - leaving 20% for "don't knows" - and there's the approximate percentage that have "attitudes that are generally held to be true." :)
The response to the question participants were offered according to the ICM survey document was "Al-Qaeda/Muslim terrorists".
Could you post the link to the document please? That's good info right there.
 
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You did indeed. I guess I thought you'd found the original questionnaire. I'm wondering if we can confirm whether it really was multiple-choice or not. Seems to have been, judging by the style and the rest of the survey - but then, it's kind of an odd one if it was, offering up "Jews" like that, so it may have been open.

Salient point on a reddit thread dealing with this survey:

reddit.JPG

I.e., forcing a respondent into one choice doesn't tell the whole story.

Wikipedia actually has a whole page devoted to opinion polls about 9/11 conspiracy theories (which may be useful is gauging changes over time):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories

There's a reference there to a poll done for the BBC in 2011, which found 15% of the US public, and 14% in the UK, thought the US Government was involved in a conspiracy. Slightly different question to this poll; full wording was:
Attacks were made on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon on September 11th 2001, commonly known as 9/11. It is generally accepted that these attacks were carried out by 'Al Qaeda'. However some people have suggested there was a wider conspiracy that included the American Government. Do you, yourself, believe that there was a wider conspiracy, or not?

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-14572054
Content from External Source
 
In a paper titled 'Conspiracy Theories: Causes and Cures', the author states that:
Conspiracy theories relating to terrorism, especially theories that arise from and post-date the 9/11 attacks, exist within the United States and, even more virulently, in foreign countries, especially Muslim countries. In a poll conducted in seven Muslim countries, 78 percent of respondents said that they do not believe the 9/11 attacks were carried out by Arabs. The most popular account, in these countries, is that 9/11 was the work of the U.S. or Israeli governments.

https://ia800304.us.archive.org/22/items/CassSunstein/cass_sunstein_infiltration.pdf
Content from External Source
So accordingly to her, conspiracy theories are even more prevelant in the Muslim world than in the US. I had no idea.
 
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I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion from the data. The question was "who was responsible for 9/11?", answering "the US Government" does not necessarily mean an individual does not accept the official story, the individual may simply believe that the US Governments actions in the middle east in the decades preceding 9/11 are what provoked the attack, and in their mind that makes the US responsible.

I agree with the above, and it could also mean that people believe Bush/ Cheney knew it would happen and did not try and stop it

But I think it's inevitable that with time people will believe more in truthers and less in the official reports. The official story is old news format and dry and dull compared to the music videos and sound bites of 9/11truth. People do not know what to believe today

Fortunately groups like this and ISF help add a bit of perspective for people willing to look below the surface.
 
I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion from the data. The question was "who was responsible for 9/11?", answering "the US Government" does not necessarily mean an individual does not accept the official story, the individual may simply believe that the US Governments actions in the middle east in the decades preceding 9/11 are what provoked the attack, and in their mind that makes the US responsible.

yes, a good point and I think this would explain at least some of the 52% (and I have come across this sentiment "in the wild" so to speak, I live in the UK btw)
 
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