Undetectable, Invisible, Theoretical, Covert Chemtrail Operations

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
[Admin: this thread moved from here, title added by Mick]

I think it is ridiculous to fear an attack on pilots or planes. I do how ever fear the psychopaths in the military doing what they did to TWA 800 in 1996 (and no I do not need a reply with the false CIA explanation please) that killed around 230 innocents near NY. I believe this was some sort of test by these monsters and I personally was shocked to see on a heavily chemtrailed sky a few weeks ago an orange laser (well I believe laser) shot up on the horizon over Melbourne city to the clouds at 8.30am. I am 100 percent convinced of the terrorism in our skies and many of the theories plus more of my own and no one will shut me up or do I have a "room temperature IQ".Just hope no plane IS attacked by the fruit loops in the "Government."

Yes your quote is good. That is what I like to do and what I was trained to do.
Why do people believe in conspiracies and specifically chemtrails?
1) Our history, literature, legends, entertainment, even our religions are replete with conspiracies . . .
2) Remember . . . Where more than two people are gathered . . . a conspiracy exists . . . LoL!!!
3) The world is obviously changing . . . instant communication, population density, technology, number and frequency of aircraft . . . and therefore, the greater chance to see persistent trails in the sky . . . and no one has convinced believers these trails cannot be chemtrails . . .
4) Trust of authority and their motives are at an all time low . . . i.e. "Just one in 10 Americans approves of the job Congress is doing, according to a Gallup poll released Tuesday, tying the branch's lowest approval rating in 38 years. Congress originally hit the 10 percent mark in February, before bouncing back several points."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobil...ating-all-time-low-gallup-poll_n_1777207.html
5) Constant, heated and contentious debate exists over the state of global warming, global dimming, ozone depletion, and whether people are the major cause of a deteriorating climate and environment . . . or not. . . scientists have effectively had their credibility damaged in the eyes of the public . . .
6) Atmospheric science is a complex and dynamic science . . . with infinite variability and unlimited sources of contamination, natural as well as man made . . .
7) In my opinion, when people were encouraged to observe the sky because of the chemtrail conspiracy . . . there was a significant realization . . . there was much more to see than people thought . . . I believe some people had a primeval moment . . . the sky was always the source of foreboding and early warning . . . Storm clouds, smoke, volcanic ash, dust storms, migrating fowl and seasonal changes . . . the sky is our crystal ball !!!!
8) Right or wrong . . . the conspiracy has a life of its own . . . no amount of argument or scientific theory will likely remove many who believe . . . from their conspiracy . . . because of their distrust of scientists, authority, primeval foreboding, and knowledge, experience and belief in conspiracies.
 
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GregMc

Senior Member.
Constant, heated and contentious debate exists over the state of global warming, global dimming, ozone depletion, and whether people are the major cause of a deteriorating climate and environment . . .


Are you suggesting such debate is universal amongst the majority of the world's Atmospheric Scientists, or rather in the non-science trained media and internet comentators?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Are you suggesting such debate is universal amongst the majority of the world's Atmospheric Scientists, or rather in the non-science trained media and internet comentators?

It is much, much more common in the media and political venues . . . or from scientists out of their specialty or hired by the political wamps . . .
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
7) In my opinion, when people were encouraged to observe the sky because of the chemtrail conspiracy . . . there was a significant realization . . . there was much more to see than people thought . . . I believe some people had a primeval moment . . . the sky was always the source of foreboding and early warning . . . Storm clouds, smoke, volcanic ash, dust storms, migrating fowl and seasonal changes . . . the sky is our crystal ball !!!!
8) Right or wrong . . . the conspiracy has a life of its own . . . no amount of argument or scientific theory will likely remove many who believe . . . from their conspiracy . . . because of their distrust of scientists, authority, primeval foreboding, and knowledge, experience and belief in conspiracies.

Point seven just shows how untrained people and ones that don't know or understand science can be lied to, and made to believe pure fiction. (a lot like religion)
Point eight is quite wrong as there is zero evidence of 'chemtrails', yet people keep inventing fictional theories as to what's going on.

It's water vapour, that's all.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Point seven just shows how untrained people and ones that don't know or understand science can be lied to, and made to believe pure fiction. (a lot like religion)
Point eight is quite wrong as there is zero evidence of 'chemtrails', yet people keep inventing fictional theories as to what's going on.

It's water vapour, that's all.
You have alternate explanations for all of the evidence presented by Chemtrail supporters . . . and while there is no evidence that proves chemtrails exist there is also no way to prove something like chemtrails don't exist . . . so people will hold on to their religion inspite of all the evidence to the contrary . . .
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
You have alternate explanations for all of the evidence presented by Chemtrail supporters . . . and while there is no evidence that proves chemtrails exist there is also no way to prove something like chemtrails don't exist . . . so people will hold on to their religion inspite of all the evidence to the contrary . . .

There's plenty of ways to prove that 'chemtrails' don't exist.
- Complete lack of any equipment in any airliner
- Complete lack of proof of any unusual chemicals in the atmosphere and/or ground either coming from the sky and/or from airliners.

It's remarkably easy to disprove when there is absolutely zero evidence.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
There's plenty of ways to prove that 'chemtrails' don't exist.
- Complete lack of any equipment in any airliner
- Complete lack of proof of any unusual chemicals in the atmosphere and/or ground either coming from the sky and/or from airliners.

It's remarkably easy to disprove when there is absolutely zero evidence.



These are easy objections to discount by chemtrail supporters . . .
1) You are not privy to all aircraft . . . there may be some you have not seen . . . like all swans are white until some were found in Australia . . .
2) The substances used for chemtrails may not need to be unusual or high enough in concentration to register above normal ambient fluctuations . . . increased sulfur compounds for example . . . simply there is no real way to test for substances which are normally found in the environment or fingerprint all of them as to exact source, and then disprove that some random aircraft could not have injected some substance in the atmosphere . . .

 
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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
There's plenty of ways to prove that 'chemtrails' don't exist.
- Complete lack of any equipment in any airliner
- Complete lack of proof of any unusual chemicals in the atmosphere and/or ground either coming from the sky and/or from airliners.

It's remarkably easy to disprove when there is absolutely zero evidence.

Chemtrail supporters do not adhere to the following simple rule . . .

 
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MikeC

Closed Account
There's plenty of ways to prove that 'chemtrails' don't exist.
- Complete lack of any equipment in any airliner
- Complete lack of proof of any unusual chemicals in the atmosphere and/or ground either coming from the sky and/or from airliners.

It's remarkably easy to disprove when there is absolutely zero evidence.

not really - you just didn't find the ones that DO exist.......;)

Lack of evidence whereh there SHOULD be evidence is called Evidence of Absence.

Sadly for us rational types "all" it gives one is reasonable grounds to believe in the absence of whatever (sadly because non-rational ones won't deal with it on this basis!) - it is still not PROOF of absence.
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
These are easy objections to discount by chemtrail supporters . . .
1) You are not privy to all aircraft . . . there may be some you have not seen


And ...

not really - you just didn't find the ones that DO exist.......;)

Lack of evidence whereh there SHOULD be evidence is called Evidence of Absence.

Sadly for us rational types "all" it gives one is reasonable grounds to believe in the absence of whatever (sadly because non-rational ones won't deal with it on this basis!) - it is still not PROOF of absence.

The reality is that it is proof.
Every airliner has many tens of ground engineers to look after it and they are all over the world. Every part of every airliner gets inspected regularly, that's one of the reasons why air travel is so safe. There's simply no way to hide anything anywhere in any of them without someone noticing.
And, funny old thing, that has never happened.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
And ...



The reality is that it is proof.
Every airliner has many tens of ground engineers to look after it and they are all over the world. Every part of every airliner gets inspected regularly, that's one of the reasons why air travel is so safe. There's simply no way to hide anything anywhere in any of them without someone noticing.
And, funny old thing, that has never happened.

So you know the people who maintain military aircraft of the US, Russian, and other major countries . . .? Seems the US was able to maintain several aircraft without divulging its detailed characteristics . . . not impossible . . .
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
So you know the people who maintain military aircraft of the US, Russian, and other major countries . . .? Seems the US was able to maintain several aircraft without divulging its detailed characteristics . . . not impossible . . .

Where did I mention the military?
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
You didn't but a Chemtrail supporter would . . .

So what?
Again the aircraft have similar inspection schedules and again there's never been any mythical 'chemtrail' equipment ever been found in them.

So what is the white stuff that sometimes comes out of an airliners exhaust, George? Is it water vapour or some kind of chemical designed to kill everyone/mind control/aliens stuff?
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
These are easy objections to discount by chemtrail supporters . . .
1) You are not privy to all aircraft . . . there may be some you have not seen . . . like all swans are white until some were found in Australia . . .


So what? Where do they hide? There are so many plane spotters all around the world.

Black-necked swans.jpg
 
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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
So what? Where do they hide? There are so many plane spotters all around the world.

Black-necked swans.jpg
They don't hide . . . they fly their missions just like any other military or military designated aircraft . . . their internal modifications may be hidden but their external design is no different to observation . . .
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
They don't hide . . . they fly their missions just like any other military or military designated aircraft . . . their internal modifications may be hidden but their external design is no different to observation . . .

Come on, George.

There are better odds on yeti or bigfoot living in remote uninhabited places than hundreds of unaccounted, unregistered planes flying in plain sight of thousands of plane spotters and other aviation enthusiasts. Many of whom have professional photo and radio equipment. Who are capable of taking decent photographs and recording the plane callsigns and communications. Rare and unusual sightings are usually discussed on numerous aviation fora. Here are just a few such fora that I encountered while exploring some unusual trails in the UK:

http://www.pprune.org/
http://www.aeroresource.co.uk/forums/
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/
http://www.iconicaircraft.co.uk/forum/
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Come on, George.

There are better odds on yeti or bigfoot living in remote uninhabited places than hundreds of unaccounted, unregistered planes flying in plain sight of thousands of plane spotters and other aviation enthusiasts. Many of whom have professional photo and radio equipment. Who are capable of taking decent photographs and recording the plane callsigns and communications. Rare and unusual sightings are usually discussed on numerous aviation fora. Here are just a few such fora that I encountered while exploring some unusual trails in the UK:

http://www.pprune.org/
http://www.aeroresource.co.uk/forums/
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/
http://www.iconicaircraft.co.uk/forum/

Hmmm . . . who said it would take hundreds of aircraft to lift the needed weight??? The effectiveness can be argued . . . the estimated tons and the aircraft to lift it (see below) is well below the hundreds you have assumed . . . earlier estimates are even lower . . . that is when such a decision could have been made to proceed with such a venture . . .


 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Hmmm . . . who said it would take hundreds of aircraft to lift the needed weight??? The effectiveness can be argued . . . the estimated tons and the aircraft to lift it (see below) is well below the hundreds you have assumed . . . earlier estimates are even lower . . . that is when such a decision could have been made to proceed with such a venture . . .

The actual number of aircraft is irrelevant, it is the number of flights that matters. And there would have to be hundreds, even thousands flights every year. So you may forget your favourite fantasy, this kind of "secret operation" wouldn't go for long unnoticed.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
C'mon George, answer the question.

The vast majority, or all of it, is mostly water vapor via combustion products . . . However, that doesn't preclude the possibility of a limited number of dedicated flights to inject sulfur compounds into the higher troposphere or lower stratosphere which would most likely not be visible as a contrail or persistent contrail at all. . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
shouldn't discussion of the number of flights "required" be in its own thread?? George - you started on on this topic - I think you should take it back here.


It's seriously OT for this one.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
The actual number of aircraft is irrelevant, it is the number of flights that matters. And there would have to be hundreds, even thousands flights every year. So you may forget your favourite fantasy, this kind of "secret operation" wouldn't go for long unnoticed.

I don't agree. . . . earlier proposals (when the decision may have been made) . . . . suggested around 20 to 30 flights each day for less than 300 days per year. . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
shouldn't discussion of the number of flights "required" be in its own thread?? George - you started on on this topic - I think you should take it back here.


It's seriously OT for this one.

I am simply answering the questions asked. . . . No more no less. . . .
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Sure . . . 6,000 flights a year buried among millions of flights. . . . a drop in the bucket . . . hardly on the radar screen. . . .

For a layman like yourself it may look like a needle in a haystack. But not for the thousands of dedicated aviation fans.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
For a layman like yourself it may look like a needle in a haystack. But not for the thousands of dedicated aviation fans.
How would they discover anything was out of the normal enough to call it to their attention? I seriously doubt they have been watching with baited breath to ID aircraft injecting sulfur compounds . . . which would be less than probably .001 percent of flights . . .
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
The vast majority, or all of it, is mostly water vapor via combustion products . . . However, that doesn't preclude the possibility of a limited number of dedicated flights to inject sulfur compounds into the higher troposphere or lower stratosphere which would most likely not be visible as a contrail or persistent contrail at all. . . .

By the mythical spraying equipment, which doesn't exist in any airliner?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
To find such aircraft one has to be looking for them . . .

I'm pretty sure plenty of people are looking for "chemtrail" a/c, and plenty of anoraks are looking for any unusual aircraft at all!

 

MikeC

Closed Account
Charter flights are unusual by definition - you get a/c that are not where you usually see them.

ditto with military flights - there are few areas so isolated that there are no observers at all - Area 51 is an obvious one....but ironically in order to get to that status it has to be well known tht it exists!!

Anoraks get their buzz from seeing the unusal - they hunt it out. I don't think you really understand the mind set!

and of course it is not "just a charter flight" - it is on the order of 6000 flights per annum.

and of course those flights at least have to come from bases where the appropriate equipment exists to servie their "special needs" - so they will not be randomly distributed - they will have centres afrom which they come.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Charter flights are unusual by definition - you get a/c that are not where you usually see them.

ditto with military flights - there are few areas so isolated that there are no observers at all - Area 51 is an obvious one....but ironically in order to get to that status it has to be well known tht it exists!!

Anoraks get their buzz from seeing the unusal - they hunt it out. I don't think you really understand the mind set!

and of course it is not "just a charter flight" - it is on the order of 6000 flights per annum.

and of course those flights at least have to come from bases where the appropriate equipment exists to servie their "special needs" - so they will not be randomly distributed - they will have centres afrom which they come.
So I am sure the managers are very aware of the threats of discovery and are motivated and skilled at covert operations . . . could just purchase a small transport company for cover . .
 
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