Ukrainian UAP Study: "Observation of Events"

Ann K

Senior Member.
Adding my 2 cent to the discussion: I believe this photo best illustrates what the paper is attempting to do: notice that the more distant a shadow is, the brighter and bluer it is.
AA02E2B5-43B8-474A-9960-DD665C238DDD.jpeg
That's generally true with distance, but in absolute numbers it's greatly dependent upon the precise atmospheric conditions at the time, even to the point that I'd suspect that even a highly calibrated instrument might give a different reading from top to bottom of its vertical field of view: think of ground-hugging bands of moist air, for example. The concept, although nicely illustrated by the large distances seen in your mountain photo, doesn't seem like a thing designed to work with a small, close sighting of an insect. And of course comparing shadows requires conditions that produce shadows.

I don't have your expertise with cameras; I'm just suggesting some limiting conditions that might make such methodology problematic.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
That's generally true with distance, but in absolute numbers it's greatly dependent upon the precise atmospheric conditions at the time, even to the point that I'd suspect that even a highly calibrated instrument might give a different reading from top to bottom of its vertical field of view: think of ground-hugging bands of moist air, for example.
Calibrating by water tower horizontally and then looking at an object above practically ensures there'll be problems, because vertically the density gets less.
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
I think it is important to note, without judging the groups expertise, that from all the objects astronomers photograph, they have the least experience with close proximity ones. I think that is not trivial.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That's generally true with distance, but in absolute numbers it's greatly dependent upon the precise atmospheric conditions at the time
It's also highly dependent on the color of the object and how it is lit. The only chance you have of getting a distance calculation is if you know all the variables. Look at these bits of mountain. I've highlighted regions at similar distances that have very different tone.
2022-09-16_09-16-00.jpg
 

Stingray

Banned
Banned
No. If they respond, I will post about it here.
Mick, did you try emailing Mr. Reshetnyk?
His contact information is available here:

https://space.univ.kiev.ua/reshetnyk-volodymyr-mykolajovych/

His last 4 publications suggests that he should be able to answer our questions (google translated):
  • Pokhvala SM, Reshetnyk VM, Zhilyaev BE Tests of commercial color CMOS cameras for astronomical applications // Advances in astronomy and space physics. - 2013. - Vol. 3, N 2. - P.145-146.
  • Pokhvala SM, Zhilyaev BE, Reshetnyk VM, Shavlovskij VI Low-resolution spectroscopy of the chromospherically active stars 61 Cyg AB with small telescopes //
  • Kinematics and physics of celestial bodies. - 2014. - Vol. 30, No. 6. - C. 25-27.
  • Simon A. O., Reshetnyk V. M. Determination of the photometric system based on observations of scattered globular clusters NGC 7243, NGC 7762 and IC 5146 // Bulletin of the Astronomical School. - 2014. - Vol. 10, No. 2. - P. 152-156.
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
His last 4 publications suggests that he should be able to answer our questions (google translated):
  • Pokhvala SM, Reshetnyk VM, Zhilyaev BE Tests of commercial color CMOS cameras for astronomical applications // Advances in astronomy and space physics. - 2013. - Vol. 3, N 2. - P.145-146.
  • Pokhvala SM, Zhilyaev BE, Reshetnyk VM, Shavlovskij VI Low-resolution spectroscopy of the chromospherically active stars 61 Cyg AB with small telescopes //
  • Kinematics and physics of celestial bodies. - 2014. - Vol. 30, No. 6. - C. 25-27.
  • Simon A. O., Reshetnyk V. M. Determination of the photometric system based on observations of scattered globular clusters NGC 7243, NGC 7762 and IC 5146 // Bulletin of the Astronomical School. - 2014. - Vol. 10, No. 2. - P. 152-156.
If his techniques were developed with astronomical applications in mind, it's no surprise that they're not meant to apply to an insect close to the camera.
 

Scaramanga

Member
AA02E2B5-43B8-474A-9960-DD665C238DDD.jpeg
That's generally true with distance, but in absolute numbers it's greatly dependent upon the precise atmospheric conditions at the time, even to the point that I'd suspect that even a highly calibrated instrument might give a different reading from top to bottom of its vertical field of view: think of ground-hugging bands of moist air, for example. The concept, although nicely illustrated by the large distances seen in your mountain photo, doesn't seem like a thing designed to work with a small, close sighting of an insect. And of course comparing shadows requires conditions that produce shadows.

I don't have your expertise with cameras; I'm just suggesting some limiting conditions that might make such methodology problematic.

I think it's impossible to ascertain genuine light and reflectivity from any photo. For example, my 'UFO' in this pic appears to be glowing under its own light. I could easily pass it off as having its own bright internal light, blazing away in the sky.....and off in the distance a mile or so away. In fact the 'UFO' is a butterfly caught in the sunlight....and about 6 feet away. I cite this primarily as an example of how easily a mere insect can be turned into a UFO. And note also the flies in the image, that have exactly the same triangular appearance as those in the Ukraine study...


P1050755 - Copy.JPG
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
If his techniques were developed with astronomical applications in mind, it's no surprise that they're not meant to apply to an insect close to the camera.

Mick, did you try emailing Mr. Reshetnyk?
His contact information is available here:

https://space.univ.kiev.ua/reshetnyk-volodymyr-mykolajovych/

His last 4 publications suggests that he should be able to answer our questions (google translated):
  • Pokhvala SM, Reshetnyk VM, Zhilyaev BE Tests of commercial color CMOS cameras for astronomical applications // Advances in astronomy and space physics. - 2013. - Vol. 3, N 2. - P.145-146.
  • Pokhvala SM, Zhilyaev BE, Reshetnyk VM, Shavlovskij VI Low-resolution spectroscopy of the chromospherically active stars 61 Cyg AB with small telescopes //
  • Kinematics and physics of celestial bodies. - 2014. - Vol. 30, No. 6. - C. 25-27.
  • Simon A. O., Reshetnyk V. M. Determination of the photometric system based on observations of scattered globular clusters NGC 7243, NGC 7762 and IC 5146 // Bulletin of the Astronomical School. - 2014. - Vol. 10, No. 2. - P. 152-156.

This research involves spectroscopy, which involves equipment that breaks down light before it is photographed.


640px-spectroscope_psf.svg7526027619667425123.png


Spectroscopy doesn't even rely on color film or video. It predates color film.

Diagrams1.jpg



It predates film.

Kirchhoffs_improved_spectroscope-572x500px.jpg



The research cited above seems to be about slitless spectroscopy, which involves inserting a disperser (in most cases a grism) into the optical path of light that would otherwise result in a regular image.

(And I suspect it involves developing techniques to use equipment that is relatively cheap, because of pitifully inadequate funding: for example, color CMOS cameras. They developed a technique to calibrate for the quirks of these cheap cameras. But the use of these cameras without the telescope and grism, and everything else involved, is nonsense.)

Grism
download (4).jpg


There must be something - prism, grism, whatever - in the optical path. It doesn't and can't involve an ordinary camera and the post-hoc analysis of an ordinary photo.

An analysis of an ordinary photo, or video frame, involves uncontrolled sources of variation. The quirks of the camera, undefined sources of light and shadow, unknown sources of color. How do you calibrate for light affected by Rayleigh scattering when you don't know the exact conditions across the entire sky? You can't.

How do you calibrate, on top of that, for light affected by things other than Rayleigh scattering? You can't.




More Reading: https://jwst-docs.stsci.edu/methods-and-roadmaps/jwst-wide-field-slitless-spectroscopy
 
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Ravi

Senior Member.
Nice. Spectrometry in astronomy and the instrumentation used is my specialism for many years. It needs accurate spectral calibration using known sources (spectral lines). But it is a very powerful measurement method.
 
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