UAPs, Bigelow, and the "Invisible College"

Mauro

Active Member
Brian Dunning of skeptoid.com has just posted the 2nd part of an article about the history of UFO 'research'.

The UFO Rogues Gallery Takes Over America - Part 1
The UFO Rogues Gallery Takes Over America - Part 2

I think I can safely paste here an excerpt (with which I very much agree) without violating his Rights & reuse policy:

Welcome to Part 2 of our episode revealing how, for more than 50 years, a small group of paranormalists and believers in reincarnation have been pursuing their interests on the payroll of the American taxpayers, and finally got their biggest PR success with claims of Navy UFO videos and ever-failing promises of government disclosure. This is a gallery of rogues who have presented a public face of UFOs that threaten our skies, while keeping their true beliefs behind the scenes, which is that they believe UFOs and poltergeists are inter-dimensional beings who hold the keys to life after death. Sound incredible? Sound too hard to believe that the government could be duped into funding such nonsense? Well, people forget: One does not need to fool the entire government to win a research grant; one needs only to find the right person holding the right purse strings.
 

Alphadunk

Active Member
But therein lies the problem with the critique of the Las Vegas UFO mob. It doesn't really matter what they truly believe if their pursuits led to the discovery of an actual problem that needs to be rectified. The UAP report was pretty clear in the assertion that the Navy is failing in terms of securing airspace and being able to positively identify object incursions. It was also clear in the assertion that more time and study was warranted. So, was Bigelow wrong to get the ball rolling on this stuff?

It's like if a group of Bigfoot hunters inadvertently discovered a new species of bear. You're free to mock their Bigfoot pursuit but that pursuit still yielded something of value.
 

LilWabbit

Active Member
But therein lies the problem with the critique of the Las Vegas UFO mob. It doesn't really matter what they truly believe if their pursuits led to the discovery of an actual problem that needs to be rectified.

That's assuming the DoD hasn't already been fully aware of the problem. Then there's the military outsiders' mischaracterization and exaggeration of the problem, assuming it isn't already being prioritized and addressed within DoD's (far more expensive) programmes for improving ISR capabilities, that it requires a separate or centralized entity, and that the DoD cannot tolerate certain inevitable level of low-information sensor-data at the limits of every sensor capability.
 

Mauro

Active Member
But therein lies the problem with the critique of the Las Vegas UFO mob. It doesn't really matter what they truly believe if their pursuits led to the discovery of an actual problem that needs to be rectified. The UAP report was pretty clear in the assertion that the Navy is failing in terms of securing airspace and being able to positively identify object incursions. It was also clear in the assertion that more time and study was warranted. So, was Bigelow wrong to get the ball rolling on this stuff?

It's like if a group of Bigfoot hunters inadvertently discovered a new species of bear. You're free to mock their Bigfoot pursuit but that pursuit still yielded something of value.
This may be, but it's also possible that's there's nothing at all to be studied or found. The Bigfoot hunters may discover a new species of bear, but much more probably they will not and their endeavour will end up in a waste of money and resources which could have been better used elsewhere.

The Navy (and all other service branches) are already very much preoccupied by the menace represented by drones and similar (known) aerial vehicles. Those are real and pressing threats, difficult to spot and to identify and difficult to suppress (expecially if used in numbers). The attacks on Saudi oil facilities in September 2019 is just one example of the very real dangers these weapons pose, going from small drones fitted with small explosive charges to high-end military systems which have been used with devastating results in the recent conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. So I don't find it strange at all that the Navy admits they have "an actual problem that needs to be rectified" because they do, even if UAPs have nothing to do with that and even if they and other armed forces (all over the world) are already investing a lot of money to overcome it. This very real problem can then be sexed up with hypothetical secret Russian or Chinese or even outworldly technology and used in a report as an excuse to justify the money spent and plead for future fundings for a silly project (nothing strange here too).

One does not need to fool the entire government to win a research grant; one needs only to find the right person holding the right purse strings. (B. Dunning)
 
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PacketSniffer5000

New Member
It's like if a group of Bigfoot hunters inadvertently discovered a new species of bear. You're free to mock their Bigfoot pursuit but that pursuit still yielded something of value.

I agree with the other point by LilWabbit, but as a new user following the social side of this phenomenon it does suggest that there is a chance that the videos themselves are doctored/cut to fit in the narratives of those who brought them to public light.

Do we have any information on who was compiling the 2021 report? Aside from Reid, are there any residual Invisible College people linked to its actual findings? Do they preshape the testimonies of pilots and radar crew before they go on mainstream news? It would seem they do in the case of Fravor, even if these people are better educated and trained in scientific thought than those who promote mysticism as a livelihood. Among the US Navy witnesses, clearly some of them have more discrete in their choice of media outlets. They had more to lose, of course.
 

Alphadunk

Active Member
Do we have any information on who was compiling the 2021 report? Aside from Reid, are there any residual Invisible College people linked to its actual findings? Do they preshape the testimonies of pilots and radar crew before they go on mainstream news? It would seem they do in the case of Fravor, even if these people are better educated and trained in scientific thought than those who promote mysticism as a livelihood. Among the US Navy witnesses, clearly some of them have more discrete in their choice of media outlets. They had more to lose, of course.

Outside of pure speculation I don't think anyone can really answer that. We know Elizondo has a great admiration for Puthoff and Eric Davis but he's never elaborated on how closely they worked together as far as I'm aware. Eric Davis has claimed to have worked as a contractor for AATIP. He also claims the AATIP program never stopped and was simply renamed and he still works with the program.

I don't see any reason to believe these people would be directly involved with Navy witnesses though. One thing to keep in mind is that despite their woo beliefs Puthoff and Eric Davis are still legitimate physicists and the government obviously has seen value in continuing to work with them for so many years.
 

Robert Sheaffer

New Member
All modern ufology roads lead back to Bigelow and/or Puthoff! This is something that has been discussed a great deal on the AboveTopSecret forums with a lot of very detailed research going into how all of these personal connections were formed and how they've evolved over time. I don't think there is any question this small group of true believers has largely driven the government's interest in UAP, among other fringe topics, over the last twenty years.

Prior to 2001, people like Puthoff and Eric Davis were still players in the field but there was also another group led by Steven Greer also pushing the narrative forward. Since 2001 Greer has gotten pretty out there and largely ostracized himself from the rest of ufological circles. That said, it's hard to discount his importance in getting us to where we are today. His work with Edgar Mitchell in meeting with officials definitely played a role in this and shouldn't be ignored.

Regardless of anything else I think it's worth remembering that isn't just a "nothing there" flap as people here often imply. There is very obviously something going on that needs to be investigated and rectified. If we have pilots continuously misusing systems or misinterpreting sensor data then that's a big problem, same for radar operators. If our systems are being legitimately fooled by prosaic objects like birds, balloons, or reflections then that's a big problem. If we have unknown entities in American airspace, be it foreign drone, radar reflector balloons, or alien spaceships... that's a big problem. So while it's easy to laugh off people like Bigelow with his fanciful supernatural ideas I think the man deserves credit in having a role in bringing this stuff to the attention of the public.
Yes. Not only do Puthoff, Davis, etc. keep turning up in government UFO matters, but they also played a big role in government investigations of ESP, psychic powers, remote viewing, etc. A whole lot of time and money has been spent on that, with no real results.

https://badufos.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-not-so-brief-history-of-pentagon-woo.html
 
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