Thousand Oaks bar shooting

[Rory]

Reports of at least 12 fatalities at the Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California, about 40 miles from Los Angeles. Suspect confirmed as dead.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46135459

Witnesses say the suspect was dressed in all black, and forced his way into the bar after first shooting the bouncer.

A college country music night was under way when the suspect apparently threw a smoke grenade into the crowd before opening fire with at least one weapon.

Witnesses told CNN that he used a short-barrelled shotgun, while others told local media that he carried a "smaller-calibre handgun with a light or laser attached to the bottom of it".

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[Mick West]

Thousand Oaks is where I lived for my first few years in the US. It was the "safest city in America" at the time (25 years ago), and still ranks at the top of the list. I still have friends who live in the area.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

My old home town. I grew up there. That was long ago, though.

 

[Svartbjørn]

The shooter was a former US Marine named Ian David Long. Reports now, from the NY Post, state that the weapon used was a legally purchased .45 caliber Glock 21 as well as a "smoke bomb."

I imagine, given how this appears to have gone down, that the "smoke bomb" was actually smoke grenade which is normally used to create a smoke screen for troop movements in a fire fight, or create general confusion in enclosed spaces. There are different types used for different purposes but the white smoke screen is the most common. They can usually be picked up in surplus stores, or bought online. They're also no too difficult to make. All you really need is a heat source and mineral oil. Reports appear to be conflicting as to whether or not he was using an extended magazine, which is illegal in CA.

There are reports from the NY Post that he may have been suffering from PTSD, but I havent seen any evidence to corroborate that.

 

[Svartbjørn]

I split this post because the top half are facts based on available research, and whats about to be posted below is opinion. I didnt want to conflate the two.

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In long's case, I dont buy the PTSD angle. Its a scapegoat used way too often to explain the bad things people do and it minimizes/demonizes people that DO have to deal with PTSD and the way it messes with your head... depending on the variety of PTSD you suffer from.

Add to that a US Marine Corporal in Quantico allegedly strangling his Lance Corporal Wife after the Marine Corps Ball, a US Marine Lance Corporal allegedly assaulting an Australian Foreign national, an Army Corporal riding around with his wife's dead body in the trunk, kids in the car and his girlfriend driving... speak to me of a much larger problem. This is a failure of the chain of command to properly control and discipline their troops as well as the military not screening well enough for mental instability.

Normally Id be a bit more soft hearted about this entire thing... ESPECIALLY because of the Marines involved... but Ive served with jackasses that didnt know when to stop drinking.... male AND female... that then went home and beat their spouses.

This bothers me, on a personal level, because I was an Active Duty US Marine just a couple decades ago. Marines do some fuuuuuucked up shit, especially when we're drunk, but there's no excuse for any of this. For the first time in my life Im actually ashamed to call myself a Marine. Im ashamed because IF the shooting was because of PTSD, then Long wasnt taken care of as he should have been while he was in and sure as shit not taken care of when he got out. If its not PTSD, then I dont want to be associated with a psychopath that killed college kids at a bar.

The other two incidents with Marines that I listed above, are more than just a black eye. Those are an ABSOLUTE failure of the command structure, of self discipline and a lack of "policing your own." Every Marine is responsible for every other Marine, regardless of rank... that simple premise failed LCPL Rivera and her family.. it failed the assault victims in Australia, and it failed the victims in this bar shooting.

 

[deirdre]

Im ashamed because IF the shooting was because of PTSD, then Long wasnt taken care of as he should have been while he was in and sure as shit not taken care of when he got out.

it doesn't always work that way. Some things just can not be 'taken care of' with our new age mental health laws.

Mental health workers decided he did not meet the standard for an emergency psychiatric hold. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/th...-12-in-thousand-oaks-bar/ar-BBPtbEz?ocid=ientp

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Of course why the bleep anyone would need a smoke bomb and why they need to be available to the general public ... well...

 

[Svartbjørn]

it doesn't always work that way. Some things just can not be 'taken care of' with our new age mental health laws.

Mental health workers decided he did not meet the standard for an emergency psychiatric hold. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/there’s-no-way-to-make-sense-out-of-the-senseless-gunman-kills-12-in-thousand-oaks-bar/ar-BBPtbEz?ocid=ientp

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Of course why the bleep anyone would need a smoke bomb and why they need to be available to the general public ... well...

Which is my primary point... the VA has an atrocious history with mental illness, so there is a chance he was misdiagnosed. On the same token though, PTSD doesnt DO that. If the guy had a carry permit, was walking around and had a flashback...started reliving some door to door type stuff and just shot up the place.... yes, I would go along with the PTSD angle. But people dont NORMALLY walk around with a smoke bomb, or a smoke grenade on their belt or in their pockets... this is why I lean more towards the premeditation angle. I know Im being hard on this kid (and the others I mentioned) but its because I wore that uniform. I know, first hand, what they have at their disposal, and I deal with depression/anxiety myself. I specifically avoided the VA because I know how shit they are, but Ive also got fairly decent insurance so I can get the help I need when I need it. Ive known too many people that really and truly suffer from PTSD to buy into this without a LOT more evidence.

As to why the smoke bombs/grenades are sold... generally they're sold for wilderness survival and the demographic tends to be mountain and trail hikers/bikers. Smoke is an effective way to get attention if you're hurt and need help out in the woods, or if you're stranded in the middle of nowhere, especially if its colored. They're usually sold as "military grade..." which means they put out a ton of smoke. As I said earlier though, its also super easy to make a smoke bomb using mineral oil and a heat source... its how fog machines work.

 

[deirdre]

this is why I lean more towards the premeditation angle.

obviously it was premeditated. PTSD is stress. stress builds up and sometimes snaps, regardless if the stress is caused by PTSD, everday emotional stress, social disability stress, financial stress etc. Unless he left a diary we most likely will never know what caused the snap.