The Global Cross-Hair Enigma that looks like Hair Dryer Burns

Mendel

Senior Member.
That's why nobody else in the world knows about it, as French typically don't ever translate anything to English. They live in their own little bubble it seems to me
"That's why nobody in the USA knows about it, as Americans typically don't ever learn French. They live in their own little bubble, it seems to me." ;-)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
A related thing is the "Red Grid Mark Phenomenon", seemingly bound to the US.
Article:
My GF’s sister woke up with these weird, grid mark red dots on her back. She says she had dreams of flying and doesn’t remember her night. She isn’t into aliens or the paranormal or anything.
0d17b2af5bc6245d1c0ce9558b1b29eefe61af75.jpg
We look it up, turns out hundreds of people have had this same phenomenon occur.
It’s not an allergic reaction. The dots arent itchy, arent made by a chair or bed or sweater, and go away in about a week.

They are equidistant and look almost man made, hundreds of people have reported similar marks on reddit. I even found a website dedicated to the investigation of it.

Aliens? Government? Bullshit? What do you think ya’ll?


Private FB group with 1451 members, just 3 years old.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/395600297698549/about/

Group rules from the admins
1. Don't join just to be a skeptic

As an repeat experiencer, you'll know that the marks are not from impressions from benches, mattresses, or fabrics. Some of us have had this debate hundreds of times trying to reach out for answers.
Content from External Source
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
A related thing is the "Red Grid Mark Phenomenon", seemingly bound to the US.
Article:
My GF’s sister woke up with these weird, grid mark red dots on her back. She says she had dreams of flying and doesn’t remember her night. She isn’t into aliens or the paranormal or anything.
0d17b2af5bc6245d1c0ce9558b1b29eefe61af75.jpg
We look it up, turns out hundreds of people have had this same phenomenon occur.
It’s not an allergic reaction. The dots arent itchy, arent made by a chair or bed or sweater, and go away in about a week.

They are equidistant and look almost man made, hundreds of people have reported similar marks on reddit. I even found a website dedicated to the investigation of it.

Aliens? Government? Bullshit? What do you think ya’ll?


Private FB group with 1451 members, just 3 years old.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/395600297698549/about/

Group rules from the admins
1. Don't join just to be a skeptic

As an repeat experiencer, you'll know that the marks are not from impressions from benches, mattresses, or fabrics. Some of us have had this debate hundreds of times trying to reach out for answers.
Content from External Source
I wonder if there is a known psychological pathology regarding inflicting minor marks/wounds and claiming they are something else unknown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factitious_disorder_imposed_on_self

Munchausen's as mentioned before is similar, but in these cases the description seems to be inflict a similar pattern of light injury and use the pretence of mystery around it to connect with a community or to feel special in some way.

I hate armchair psychoanalysing though which is where this thread is heading, so might be time to turn to real psychologists.
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
I hate armchair psychoanalysing though which is where this thread is heading, so might be time to turn to real psychologists.
I feel the same. We can safely agree this is not caused by aliens going unnoticed in random white girl's bedrooms, wielding cattle branding irons.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
We can safely agree this is not caused by aliens going unnoticed in random white girl's bedrooms, wielding cattle branding irons.
If it was aliens, I'd like to know why they're using so many different patterns, but all of them look like hairdryer grilles, and some are applied inexpertly.

I'd expect them to use the same pattern (or a small number of variations), but this looks like they're stealing a new hair dryer for every human they abduct.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Are they really using them or pretending/using them on blow only for stock photos/advertising pictures?
i only know one gal who uses the attachment. i never used them, even when we used to use round brushes (now they have dryers that are a brush itself and these rock! because your hair doesnt get tangled in the brush.) A hairdryer takes up enough space in small bathroom cabinets, the attachment just makes them ridiculously huge.

I wish i didnt throw out my mini attachment, it would be handy for artwork use. But i did.

Most salons use them, that i've been to.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
There's a young man with a mark, showing his hairdryer is different, but he's seemingly showing the back
the inner circle is further out then outer circles (no idea why). thats why my outer circle didnt show up on my skin.

even my big hairdryer its domed...the inner circle sticks out further. not sure if i can photo it to show.
note: despite paint on this one too and same color as above, it is a different and full size hairdryer. i use John Frieda's hot air brush now
20220805_094612_HDR.jpg
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
the inner circle is further out then outer circles (no idea why). thats why my outer circle didnt show up on my skin.

even my big hairdryer its domed...the inner circle sticks out further. not sure if i can photo it to show.
note: despite paint on this one too and same color as above, it is a different and full size hairdryer. i use John Frieda's hot air brush now
20220805_094612_HDR.jpg

What we mean is they are showing us green arrow side and they should be showing red arrow side.

1659707862663.png
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
or maybe we could stick to actual debunking.
What exactly are we debunking here though?

Part of this seems to be that groups of people are knowingly burning themselves or marking themselves with hairdryers and then misrepresenting this. This kind of behaviour could be linked to some known psychological pathology.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
What exactly are we debunking here though?
the claim they must be alien marks.

This kind of behaviour could be linked to some known psychological pathology.
and the behavior in this thread could be linked to some known psychological pathologies too. Do you really want to listen to me bang on about those speculations?
Seeking the attention or actually believing you were abducted by aliens is psychologically glitchy enough, accusing these people of being self harmers (in the classical sense) is just wild speculation and unseemly.
But carry on... i'm always wrong on politeness issues anyway.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Do you think it is a possibility they are knowingly burning themselves with hairdryers or not?
yes just like i knowingly carved band names into my arms and people all over the world knowingly carve tattoos into their bodies.

i don't think you understand what actual self-harm is. But as i said... carry on. I tried.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
yes just like i knowingly carved band names into my arms and people all over the world knowingly carve tattoos into their bodies.

i don't think you understand what actual self-harm is. But as i said... carry on. I tried.
What is your problem with what I have been saying? Just say what you mean.
 

LilWabbit

Senior Member
I think it's a combination. Some are deliberate, some are accidental.

But mostly deliberate when it comes to the more complete and distinct patterns, howbeit deliberate for varying reasons and motives. And some of the accidental ones may also be deliberately misrepresented by the person with the burn pattern.

Overall I agree with @deirdre (despite being a tad tantrumy) that psychologizing on these deliberate burn motives is a derail from the actual debunk.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
But mostly deliberate when it comes to the more complete and distinct patterns, howbeit deliberate for varying reasons and motives. And some of the accidental ones may also be deliberately misrepresented by the person with the burn pattern.

Overall I agree with @deirdre (despite being a tad tantrumy) that psychologizing on these deliberate burn motives is a derail from the actual debunk.
No-one had a problem with it in the Cuban Sonic Weapon case.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
What exactly are we debunking here though?
What I'm really investigating is Jacques Vallee's claims, in particular, this mark:


I asked for access to the pdfs last night, and got it this morning.

Vallee's case is in the French Traces circulaires cutanées database as case 151. In the questionnaire, she says she has a hairdryer, a Lidl Silvercrest. She did not have a photo.
2022-08-05_08-17-39.jpg
Posted publicly here:
https://touraine-insolite.clicforum.fr/t987-tranges-traces-circulaires-cutan-es.htm?start=240 (https://archive.ph/Ss9FM)


I found a video of one.
2022-08-05_07-55-31.jpg
You see the slightly domed grill which means you will get only partial contact, depending on angle and pressure. Note the heating elements are very close to the grill.

It matches her burn.

(slight perspective distortion as the original image is at a slight angle and skin is not flat)

Given this coincidence, and with the other evidence in this thread, I think this is very likely an accidental burn from a brief bump against the skin, forgotten, and then the burn noticed days later.
 

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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
No-one had a problem with it in the Cuban Sonic Weapon case.
We don't need to speculate about motive or mental states, especially in individual cases. But if we are to hypothesize an explanation, then we should establish that such things happen. I think it's fairly clear that accidental burns are highly plausible.
 

LilWabbit

Senior Member
So does the likely accidental case here predate the French forum about it?

Accidental or deliberate, Jacques Vallee and his henchmen make use of both types of hairdryer burn mark images for propagating their age-old alien narrative. As far as the debunking goes, the hypothesis of 'aliens' for these patterns is evidently bunk as demonstrated by even cursory match-ups between the burn images and known makes and models of hairdryers/heat guns.

Consider it debunked.

Psychological analysis comes into play only if we wish to further explore why people do all of the above things, starting with Vallee himself.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
I don't have an issue with accidental burns being a possibility, for me it stretches belief a little more that no-one remembers that they burned themselves, or is the group self-selecting for both those that forgot forever and those that are looking to mislead? Surely someone posted and then remembered they burned themselves last week.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't have an issue with accidental burns being a possibility, for me it stretches belief a little more that no-one remembers that they burned themselves, or is the group self-selecting for both those that forgot forever and those that are looking to mislead? Surely someone posted and then remembered they burned themselves last week.
I often find scratches on myself that I don't remember getting. If there's something else going on at the time, then will you remember a minor "ouch" 2-3 days later? The case file includes at least one testimony of someone who realizes that the mark matched the hairdryer, but they genuinely seem to have no memory of it.
 

LilWabbit

Senior Member
ok men dont know what self-harm is, and apparently dont know what a tantrum is either. :)

You've always been a tad tantrumy here (in the internet sense of the term so don't suddenly get all pedantic) but we still love ya. ❤️ And you're not the only one.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
You've always been a tad tantrumy here (in the internet sense of the term so don't suddenly get all pedantic) but we still love ya. ❤️ And you're not the only one.
i'm naggy, not tantrumy. you may read most of my posts as "emotional" but they most often are not.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
I often find scratches on myself that I don't remember getting. If there's something else going on at the time, then will you remember a minor "ouch" 2-3 days later? The case file includes at least one testimony of someone who realizes that the mark matched the hairdryer, but they genuinely seem to have no memory of it.
When I google "weird circular mark on arm" or "crosshair mark on arm" etc I get ringworm and lyme disease links.

I wonder if there is some specific google trap, maybe in French language/geolocation that gets you to the forum thread or the Vallee hypothesis.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
One more case:
2022-08-05_08-59-54.jpg

un sèche cheveu et dont la grille correspond exactement a ma marque mais rien que d'imaginer
la douleur du sèche cheveux sur ma peau je dis Non
...
a hair dryer and whose grid corresponds exactly to my brand but nothing but to imagine
the pain of the hair dryer on my skin I say No
Content from External Source
He sees that it's a perfect match, but does not recall, and thinks that he would recall because he imagines it would have been painful.

The distorted plastic would indicate it's a hairdryer prone to overheating (usually when the back gets clogged)
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
Given this coincidence, and with the other evidence in this thread, I think this is very likely an accidental burn from a brief bump against the skin, forgotten, and then the burn noticed days later.
I once had severe pain in my hip joint, and fell asleep with a soothing heating pad on it. I felt no pain of any kind on the skin, but the next day the skin peeled over a large area to leave a weeping sore. The hip seems to be an especially good place to injure the skin without pain sensation, and I don't know whether that's because there are fewer pain receptors or because there is often some excess fat. Based on my own experience I find it plausible that an accidental but unnoticed burn could easily occur in less-sensitive areas of the body.

That, of course, doesn't preclude intentional burns, but separating out the accidents from the publicity seekers is probably beyond the scope of this investigation.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
In this post:
https://touraine-insolite.clicforum.fr/t987-tranges-traces-circulaires-cutan-es.htm?start=285#p7263

There's a young man with a mark, showing his hairdryer is different, but he's seemingly showing the back

2022-08-05_02-38-50.jpg
With a higher resolution image, it's actually the front (I'd interpreted the fins as being lint), and it appears to be a perfect match2022-08-05_11-41-11.jpg
He comments:


Yes [I own a hairdryer] for a short time, nevertheless
I've never burned myself with it. I do not have it
neither approached my stomach at any time.

Philips Salon Dry Compact Hair Blower

I do not understand how the brand of the grid of my hair dryer could end up above my navel when I didn't burn myself with it.
Content from External Source
I think the simplest answer there again is that it was a momentary incident that was forgotten, then the mark was discovered some days later.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I do not understand how the brand of the grid of my hair dryer could end up above my navel when I didn't burn myself with it.
my thought when i first saw that photo was that he was groping at his girlfriend as she was trying to do her hair and she said "stop it!" and pushed him away (as you do) with the dryer, not realizing it would burn him.
 
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