The Chemtrail Killers among us

[Jay Reynolds]

Starting in 1999 and during 2000, a poster appeared at some boards discussing gulfwar syndrome. The person claimed inside knowledge, and seemed to be egging on people into the idea. He eventually moved on to chemtrailcentral and we had some feuds. I don't recall all his names, but two of them were "VEC" and "Biomass". His real name was David W. Logsdon and I exposed him here:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000023.html

The site I created was eliminated by Logsdon who tricked me with a phished version of my own site login. I gave him my username and password and he took my site down. During that time period he threatened me by email and telephone, even once speaking to my young daughter who answered one of his past midnight calls.

He did have a site called tru-reality.com, which languished for some years till he let the domain expire.

Logsdon was involved with paganism and various nordic/celtic role-players, but unknown to those people and myself, he had aready committed murder in 1981.
http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=342038&postcount=49

He was an alcoholic and at one point was institutionalized.

In 2007, his downfall came when he bludgeoned a woman to death whom he left lying on the floor of her home which he then took for himself. When police found her they began looking for her car.

This was the first contact, a shootout with police, which resulted in both logsdon and a police officer each wounded in the arm, with the officer taking two guns away from him:
http://208.100.40.160/get.asp?i=V2935

This escalated to a mass shooting 16 minutes later at a Kansas City area shopping mall were Logsdon had worked as a security guard at a "Target" discount store.

At the mall, Logsdon used 31 shots from a rifle to shoot two dead and wound seven others before being killed by multiple police shotgun blasts.

http://www.kmbc.com/news/13220624/detail.html

Many links here:
http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/update-ward-parkway-shopping-center-shooting/

People who knew him had a discussion:
http://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=339533

I did not realize that this man was a killer and had been killed until today.
It was quite a chilling thing to discover.
It is a warning to those who mess around with this hoax that there are some very bad people involved.
To me there is no doubt that evil exists around this subject.
Jay

 

[Janet D]

@ Jay Reynolds. Wow. I say that a lot, don't I? Ha ha...wow.

Yeah, I'm with you on the nature of some of the players in the hoax world. Even if you don't believe in "evil", it's fair to say that some of these people are mentally deranged. No doubt. Interesting, Jay! Thank you.

 

[MikeC]

I think it is quite dangerous to characterise conspiracy believers as anything based upon a single psychopath who also happened to beleive in conspiracies - it smacks of the confirmation bias and confusing corelation with causality that we all criticise CT's for, and leaves "us" open to criticism of hypocrisy should a debunker ever be discovered to be/have been a violent criminal.

Cerainly this guy was a dangerous nutjob, and Jay may have been lucky to get away with nothing worse than a hijacked website.

 

[Mick West]

Indeed, this is just about this one individual, and should not be taken as any broader indication. While you do want to keep such things in mind, it's probably not helping with engagement to focus unduly on individuals - especially if they are no longer in the picture.

Politeness is my policy.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

This is an example of a worst case situation. I likely would have never come into contact with such a person except for my involvement
with this hoax. I tried to simply list the facts and be polite. Yes, I feel lucky. I hope we are all so lucky.

 

[Pogopoint99]

Politeness is my policy.

Anonymity is mine.

 

[Janet D]

Good points, all. Honestly, I think most CT's are completely harmless, or rather, CT's probably have the same issues with mental illness as any other group of people. There are obviously some exceptions. I fret sometimes about people like Ted Gunderson, but then again I'm a "recovering CT" and tend to worry a little more than the average person about things I have no control over. My own personal experience with chemtrail CT's is that most of them actually DO very little, except "spread the word" online. Again, there are always exceptions.

Still, that's pretty creepy, Jay, and I'm glad nothing too serious happened to you.

 

[firepilot]

Well I think that there is somewhat of a point, and I would say that you would find a higher incidence of mental issues, among the chemtrailers (and other conspiracy type groups) than in the general population.

When I was on chemtrail central, there were multiple people that you knew had a few screws loose in the head. One of them, made up this fantasy world of a fake girlfriend, and her jealous sister, and would edit photos to place these two women in a photo with him. Someone had recognized one of the women from an online adult site, and it turns out that was where this person took the pics from, and made his own version of reality that included these women in photos with him. Not just that but he even made up login names for these pretend women that would post on chemtrail central too.

It was patently obvious this guy was not all together there, but when the debunkers proved this guys pics were edited together, that this women was not his girlfriend, and these user names were just most likely him too, the chemmies did not tell him to get some help, they would defend him and attack who would post the allegations and proof about this guy.

Later on, he got arrested for possession of child porn, and spend time behind bars for it.

 

[Mick West]

Well I think that there is somewhat of a point, and I would say that you would find a higher incidence of mental issues, among the chemtrailers (and other conspiracy type groups) than in the general population.

This may well be true, and it's certainly something to keep in mind.

However, any hint or suggestion of mental illness is something that rapidly becomes immensely polarizing. If you start talking about it, then it becomes perceived as "the debunkers think we are all crazy". Their focus shifts further away from science and reason, and deeper into a defensive mindset.

Yes, there are crazy people out there, and probably ore crazy people get sucked into conspiracy theories than do sane people (some conspiracy theories are essentially delusional disorders). But I think that rather than pointing out that people are crazy, we'll get better results if we point out where they are wrong.

 

[Janet D]

I don't object to the statement that many CT's have mental health issues. My point, after considering for some time what I was thinking in 2006 and '07, is that I object to the characterization that people who believe in a CT are potentially violent. I have found most CT's to be very peaceful. Now..."drama queen"...maybe? Oh yeah...there's a lot of that going on, and that's for sure.

But I hear you, Mick. It's just that there really are some of us who do believe we must have been "crazy" to fall for any CT to begin with. But I do hear you.

 

[firepilot]

Well they do not always seem so peaceful to me. While most of them do not do anything about "chemtrails" that does not involve posting on internet message boards, there are some that have at least mentioned wanting to shoot down planes, and "aircrap" had a vote about how us evil pilots should be punished, and one of the options was execution.

But I agree, I do not badget chemmies with news of what some of the other ones have done, since it generally does make them defense. Actually what doesnt make them defensive.

 

[Janet D]

Well they do not always seem so peaceful to me. While most of them do not do anything about "chemtrails" that does not involve posting on internet message boards, there are some that have at least mentioned wanting to shoot down planes, and "aircrap" had a vote about how us evil pilots should be punished, and one of the options was execution.

Point taken. FYI, I used to talk some shit on the web. When I believed in "chemtrails" I started to believe in "us and them" and "evil".

I do not believe in any of that now.

I write a blog sometimes...not trying to draw undue attention, but you might find my "feelings" about this somewhere here ~ http://martian-kat.blogspot.com/

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Another Chemmie goes beserk, killing 8

Well, it's happened again. Another mass killing by a chemtrail believer.

I really hope we aren't seeing a pattern develop here, but what did anyone really expect?
People are being told that they are being poisoned, sprayed like bugs, then they are given no real solutions
or hope except to protest. Their (mis)leaders have been shown time and time again that what they are telling
these people is WRONG, yet they don't respond.

This thing is a trap just waiting for another whacko with the "right stuff" to come along.
I saw this coming a long time ago and it's time that it gets addressed.

[Broken External Image]:http://freenewsandphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Michael-Hance-photos.jpg

According to multiple interviews with authorities and people who knew him, the 6-foot-3, 200-pound Hance was a kind, quiet man who always was willing to lend a helping hand. But he also was prone to bizarre behavior.

2009 police report

Akron police also were aware of Hance’s strange behavior, at least peripherally. More than two years ago, he contacted authorities about activities in the sky.

Hance was paranoid about too many jet contrails in the sky, according to a May 30, 2009, police report. The responding officers classified his behavior as a “signal 43.” The term is code for a person displaying mental problems.

“The report basically says he was crazy,” police Lt. Rick Edwards said.

Such reports are known as “field interviews” and usually do not require any follow-up investigation by police.

 

[firepilot]

A chemtrailer recently called up a certain cloud seeding company, insisting he sees their airplanes over Maine, and threatening to shoot them down.

Of course they call the police, who then brought the FBI into it. This guy got a not so friendly visit from federal agents, but I am not sure if it concluded

 

[Mick West]

I suspect in this case it was simple one symptom amongst many.

It is interesting to think though, just how blasé the chemtrailers are about being poisoned every day. You'd really expect many more of them to do something about it (although not to this extent). Sure, you get a few protests now and then, and they attract a handful of people. But you also get loads of people who just seem resigned to helplessness. It reminds me of la belle indifference.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/la_belle_indifference

la belle indifference

1. (psychology, dated) A condition in which the person is unconcerned with symptoms caused by a conversion disorder. A naive, inappropriate lack of emotion or concern for the perceptions by others of one's disability, usually seen in persons with conversion disorder.

I think the vast majority of people can incorporate just about anything into their world view, and just carry on as superficially normal people.

I suppose it should not really be that surprising when you consider how naturally people incorporate their beliefs about the supernatural aspects of religion into their world views.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

I am adding a link to document Hance's involvement with chemtrails befoe he killed his entire family..
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/08/killer_tracked_11-year-old_boy.html

 

[GregMc]

Well there is the other possibility I came across a while back of contemplated and attempted suicide of someone close to me due to fear of chemtrails and believing conspiracy nonsense. It's one of the main reasons I make a regular effort to debunk this nonsense. The person took a long time to grasp that the trails are just condensation and still has trouble maintaining rationality when exposed to the highly vocal conspiracy advocates in their home town. The person also spoke of various friends who had already committed suicide who had shared the same beliefs.
The constant fear and misery due to the false belief that mysterious powers beyond your control are constantly trying to kill you from the sky is certainly not conducing to good mental health and dealing with depression.
To my thinking the people like Michael J Murphy that proselytise the fear generating chemtrail nonsense and KNOW it's nonsense are directly responsible for suicide deaths that result in such manner. He knows he is spreading bunk, just as cigarette companies knew they were selling dangerous products but tried to convince the public otherwise.