The Anti Media, makes bogus claim that "CDC admits Ebola could be airborne"

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
The fear-mongering conspiracy website called 'The Anti Media' that is run by the same person that is the organizer and founder of March Against Monsanto, Nick Bernbabe has this headline and story, fortunately based on the comments, not everyone is fooled.:

Link


 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's a confusion between the popular usage of the term "airborne" (like a car getting airborne if it goes off a ramp), and the magical term (actually carried by air without falling).

The following is a response I posted in the other Ebola thread.

The terminology varies, so there's some public confusion. But to travel long distances ("airborne"), the droplets need to be very small, which means they dry out almost instantly, and the ebola virus dies. Some pathogens (flu, common colds) can survive this drying out, but not Ebola.

This is a good overview of the distinction:
http://virologydownunder.blogspot.com/2014/08/ebola-virus-may-be-spread-by-droplets.html
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So basically, if you are within three feet of someone, they could infect you "over the air" by spitting, sneezing, coughing, or anything else that projects drops a short distance.
 

Jason

Senior Member
So basically, if you are within three feet of someone, they could infect you "over the air" by spitting, sneezing, coughing, or anything else that projects drops a short distance.
I agree but honestly Mick, this is a virus that is still not well understood. And if monkeys and pigs can transmit the virus to one another without ever coming into contact with each other that maybe we're missing something here. It would be a shame to say "We know everything there is too know about Ebola", when the truth is this outbreak is unprecedented.

How did these animals transmit the disease to one another without ever coming into contact with one another? Maybe those who study the virus are missing something. It's possible, even if it's remotely unlikely.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I agree but honestly Mick, this is a virus that is still not well understood. And if monkeys and pigs can transmit the virus to one another without ever coming into contact with each other that maybe we're missing something here. It would be a shame to say "We know everything there is too know about Ebola", when the truth is this outbreak is unprecedented.

How did these animals transmit the disease to one another without ever coming into contact with one another? Maybe those who study the virus are missing something. It's possible, even if it's remotely unlikely.

Through the air, as explained above. Small drops, short distance.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Through the air, as explained above. Small drops, short distance.
I'd be interested to know how far apart these animals were separated from each other in this experiment. Also, has there been any "recent" testing to confirm that the ebola strain in this latest outbreak hasn't become airborne. It seems like most of the data used when discussing this virus are dated well before the outbreak.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I'd be interested to know how far apart these animals were separated from each other in this experiment. Also, has there been any "recent" testing to confirm that the ebola strain in this latest outbreak hasn't become airborne. It seems like most of the data used when discussing this virus are dated well before the outbreak.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
 

Jason

Senior Member
I always thought "airborne" had more to do with genetic mutations and variants of the virus rather than the droplet size and its survival in a droplet as it dries out. I would also like to mention the person who wrote up the blog admits;
 

Jason

Senior Member
The blog Mick posted says this about pigs;
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I always thought "airborne" had more to do with genetic mutations and variants of the virus rather than the droplet size and its survival in a droplet as it dries out.

It's both, directly intertwined.
  • It's "airborne" if it can survive in a small dry droplet nuclei that can be carried by the air like dust.
  • Ebola can't currently do this, so it would need to mutate into a new variant in order to do it.
ANY virus can be spread by sneezing sufficiently large droplets of body fluid a few feet. This is not what is meant by an "airborne" virus.
 

Jason

Senior Member
It's both, directly intertwined.
  • It's "airborne" if it can survive in a small dry droplet nuclei that can be carried by the air like dust.
  • Ebola can't currently do this, so it would need to mutate into a new variant in order to do it.
ANY virus can be spread by sneezing sufficiently large droplets of body fluid a few feet. This is not what is meant by an "airborne" virus.
So how does a virus that survives in a host mutate so it can survive outside of a host. In such a way that it can become smaller and more susceptible to surviving in small "dry" droplet nuclei. I know mutations often, if not always, happen by accident, but these little "buggers" are the best survivors the world over. Some theorize based on genetic evidence that viruses could have been the "first" forms of life on our planet. Their existence bestows us, and we shouldn't take our perception of them for granted. The current outbreak demands that we re-examine Ebola. Media outlets are all discussing the fact that we might be missing something and whether or not Ebola can be transmitted by some other means.

The nurse in Dallas wore protective gear and there is currently an investigation underway to determine how she caught the virus. We've been told that the only way you can catch the virus is if someone is symptomatic and through their bodily fluids. But, their bodily fluids wouldn't be enough if it were to touch our skin. It would have to enter our bodies via a cut or scrape on our body. Or it could possibly enter our body via a tear duct or genitalia during intercourse. So you shouldn't rub your eyes after coming in contact with bodily fluids.

I'm hoping they are still studying this strain, and verifying the fact that it hasn't mutated or that it can be transmitted through some other means, ie; "airborne". The flu mutates every season which is a quick mutation by evolutionary standards. Who's to say Ebola, another virus, can't mutate just as easily. I often hear of people dismissing this as a possibility because they note it takes time for these things to happen, but with the flu viruses it isn't the case. And yes, of course, the mutation could lead to a less lethal virus so it can survive longer, but that is also a guess.

How do they study the current Ebola virus in this outbreak to determine it hasn't mutated. What methods do they use to determine this?
 

Jason

Senior Member
how about you look it up and you tell us.
I wouldn't have proposed the question if I didn't try looking for it myself. Search results come up empty with respect to Ebola. Searches are comprised of the outbreak, spanish, and US incidents.
 

Jason

Senior Member
how about you look it up and you tell us.
In fact, you're met with search results like below. Most results discuss the potential of Ebola becoming airborne, and some scaremongering sites also make the list of search results.

upload_2014-10-14_13-59-43.png
 

Jason

Senior Member

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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It it became airborne then thousands of people would become infected. Realistically that's going to be the first indication.

A mutation is not something that happens globally. All the ebola viruses don't suddenly decided to mutate at the same time. If it were to became airborne, it would happen in one spot. So there's really no way of testing for this.

But as seen in your search results, only fearmongering conspiracy theorist sites like Zerohedge are seriously taking about this as a possibility. The CIDRAP thing was just about the size of the droplets.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

solrey

Senior Member.
In fact, you're met with search results like below. Most results discuss the potential of Ebola becoming airborne, and some scaremongering sites also make the list of search results.

View attachment 9576

Try narrowing your search terms a bit like "ebola outbreak 2014 scientific studies"...


http://www.broadinstitute.org/news/6017

http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/september2014/09152014ebola.htm

http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6959087/ebola-outbreak-virus-mutated-airborne

 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I wouldn't have proposed the question if I didn't try looking for it myself. Search results come up empty with respect to Ebola. Searches are comprised of the outbreak, spanish, and US incidents.
don't forget to clear your cache from time to time.

virologists studying ebola in 2014: one example
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140828142738.htm




 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

Jason

Senior Member
No. Short distance aerosol is not the same as airborne. As your image quote says "airborne transmission has not been demonstrated".
Ok, but how do you know it was "short" distance aerosol. Also, when they discuss aerosol how are they introducing the virus to the animal. Obviously, they aren't holding up a spray can and blowing it into their face. How do they make a virus an aerosol if it isn't capable of being airborne. Do they place a few petri dishes on the floor in the vicinity of the animals, or do they use fans. I don't understand what aerosol means in this instance.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, but how do you know it was "short" distance aerosol. Also, when they discuss aerosol how are they introducing the virus to the animal. Obviously, they aren't holding up a spray can and blowing it into their face. How do they make a virus an aerosol if it isn't capable of being airborne. Do they place a few petri dishes on the floor in the vicinity of the animals, or do they use fans. I don't understand what aerosol means in this instance.

Aerosol means a small drop that can be carried by the air. The smaller the drop the more it can be carried. But also the smaller the drop the quicker it dries, and the quicker the virus dies.

A droplet that might be carried a few feet would evaporate in seconds.

A droplet that might make it out of the room would evaporate in less than a second.
 

Jason

Senior Member
don't forget to clear your cache from time to time.

virologists studying ebola in 2014: one example
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140828142738.htm




This came from the introduction of your first link. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2546863/. It clearly states that any microorganism can become airborne. The last sentences discusses that in order for a pathogen or microorganism to become airborne it first needs to develop the ability to resist the stresses of aerosolization, which is was demonstrated in the above experiment I attached where pigs contracted the virus via aerosol.

upload_2014-10-14_14-44-51.png
upload_2014-10-14_14-45-28.png
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
above experiment I attached where pigs contracted the virus via aerosol
I must be looking at the wrong one then. my pigs were injected. thought I got the link from you. which link shows pigs aerosoled? can you repost?
 

Jason

Senior Member
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
With respect Jason, you appear to be trying really hard to convince yourself that ebola is airborne.

It's not. If it was, then we'd know. It would be spreading like wildfire everywhere in the world. All the doctors and hospital staff would be dead by now.

Aerosols dry out very rapidly. This limits the distance they can travel. There's still a small danger when you are very close to someone who is symptomatic , which is why the doctors wear masks.
 

Jason

Senior Member
With respect Jason, you appear to be trying really hard to convince yourself that ebola is airborne.

It's not. If it was, then we'd know. It would be spreading like wildfire everywhere in the world. All the doctors and hospital staff would be dead by now.

Aerosols dry out very rapidly. This limits the distance they can travel. There's still a small danger when you are very close to someone who is symptomatic , which is why the doctors wear masks.
I'm not trying to convince myself it's airborne. Honestly @Mick West, I have 4 kids and all I'm doing is trying to be proactive and educate myself on the possibility of Ebola "becoming" airborne. The paranoid side of me worries about my kids. I know it isn't "airborne" but my concern is if it will "become" airborne. I'm just trying to understand it better which in the end relaxes my nerves a bit. I was the same way 2 weeks ago with the D68 EV, and after much discussion with you and others I found peace. That's all. I've learned a lot today, and I'm glad I raised the concerns I had.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Fomites are more relevant here than aerosols.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Fomites are more relevant here than aerosols.
Great, now I have something else to worry about, J/K. :p
 

Rafterman

Member
Isn't it a bit unfair to say that this disease hasn't been studied?

Ebola has been around for decades and a great deal of effort has been put into understanding how it works, how it's spread, treatment protocols, etc.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
There's lots of papers on Ebola from the 1990s. Even studies from back then on aerosol transmission.
 

Unicess

New Member
I am currently a nursing student about to graduate and I was a nurse aide in the hospital for two years prior. I would like to say that I am following all of the posts and news about the Ebola "outbreak" in Texas and I am happy to read all of the statements made on this blog. I know this is a scary time but we have discussed this in my class and we all believe it is containable. I don't believe there is any need for mass panic. It is very unfortunate that some health care workers contracted this virus but unfortunately that is part of the risk we take when we go into the health care field. By the way I live in Oklahoma and I can tell you from experience that everyone is learning from the situation in Texas and standards are in place within the hospitals here to keep their employees safe at work. I would assume that is standard in all hospitals. I don't believe at this time there is any need to worry about an epidemic.
 

Rafterman

Member
I am currently a nursing student about to graduate and I was a nurse aide in the hospital for two years prior. I would like to say that I am following all of the posts and news about the Ebola "outbreak" in Texas and I am happy to read all of the statements made on this blog. I know this is a scary time but we have discussed this in my class and we all believe it is containable. I don't believe there is any need for mass panic. It is very unfortunate that some health care workers contracted this virus but unfortunately that is part of the risk we take when we go into the health care field. By the way I live in Oklahoma and I can tell you from experience that everyone is learning from the situation in Texas and standards are in place within the hospitals here to keep their employees safe at work. I would assume that is standard in all hospitals. I don't believe at this time there is any need to worry about an epidemic.

Excellent points - unfortunately we have a few groups in this country who are trying to 1) use the outbreak for political benefit and 2) use the outbreak for financial gain and both are feeding the panic frenzy.

Oddly enough, one of these groups has spent the better part of the last 6 years telling us that we have the best healthcare system in the world and yet now want us to believe that its not better than a dirt floored clinic in rural Liberia.
 

Unicess

New Member
I agree with you 100% and it is very sad to me that this is the case. I really hope that people will look at the facts and not the hype.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
I agree with the previous posts - "airborne Ebola" in densely populated regions of west Africa would have already resulted in millions of cases. This is not HIV that can hide for years, people get really sick within weeks at the most.

It seems that Ebola has evolved to have rather nasty methods of perpetuating itself: it infects every tissue at about the point it kills the host, and can survive for some time after the host is dead. Eating dead bush meat is not a good idea.

Unlike the premise of the movie "Outbreak" there is little, if any, evolutionary pressure for Ebola to become airborne. I am not sure there is even a precedent for a direct contact contagion making the leap to being airborne other than through weaponization by humans (e.g., Anthrax).
 
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