Simple Contrail Explanations

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Here is the challenge:

Create 30 second videos explaining contrail facts in simple, easy to understand ways that anyone can understand.

Since I brought this up, I'm going first:

 

Fred259

New Member
Good thread Jay.....this isn’t 30 seconds, rather about 4 minute video published by a representative from the Civil Aviation Authority in London along with contributions from a Canadian Air Traffic Controller in Gander and two BA pilots.


They are talking about what’s known as SLOP or Strategic Offset Lateral Procedure.


Therefore take heart that this isn’t fake or made up. Hopefully the video explains the problem in this image better thus confirming too you how things really do work this way rather than the miss-truths that you may have been told.





chemtrails 21.jpg



PS..... this video shows the SLOP going from Scotland to Nova Scotia. Normally its in and around this position but equally they can and do move the SLOP track at both ends of the Atlantic. (ie its not a fixed position) Much will depend on the position of the polar jet-stream. Therefore if you see heavy contrails over Lancashire in England it could mean that they have moved the SLOP south...




Everyone wants to arrive in the US at Breakfast-time for the start of the business day.​
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The SLOP video is very interesting, but it's very unlikely to account for the contrail distribution in the image. SLOP is only a 1 or 2 mile offset. Those trails themselves are probably a mile wide themselves, separated by 5-10 miles each and spanning a region of 50-100 miles. Also SLOP would only be used out over the ocean where there is no radar contact, so would not be visible from land.

The second video is not really showing SLOP (which is too small to see at that scale), but is showing the North Atlantic Tracks which are 60 miles apart, too wide to create a grid visible from the ground, and also not visible from land.

A far more likely factor in the creation of this set of contrails is the variety of plane routes over land, and the wind.
 

Fred259

New Member
Mick, I appreciate what you are saying.... that particular image is just a stock image from Google and is used to illustrate the criss crosses that readers talk about. I don’t think the actuals trails themselves can be a mile wide, that’s 6,000 feet after all!........ however I do agree with your last comment about increased formation over land when compared with over the sea.


Remember also that SLOP is offset 2 miles in both directions of the track which means that aircraft from North America flying towards Europe will be offset south of track.
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
A good one from BBC World - too long for this challenge, but it get´s all important Basics to know...




A good one! Watch it!





---- sligthly offtopic from here

...And in Germany, this Video made the Chemtrail-Believers really running mad.

Jörg Kachelmann, a popular TV-Weathermen, explains (in German) that Chemtrails doesn´t exist, these are Contrails and Cloud-Seeding is possible but not backed up scientific. He argues that if "Controlling Weather" would be common, why are - for example - on olympic Winter-Games great Events are declined due to bad weather?!



This and another Video by Jörg Kachelmann made some Chemtrails-Believers so angry that there was a Lawsuit against him.

In one Video (and in an eMail) he claims that "80% of the Chemtrails-Theorists are Nazis or crazy".The first two hearings against this claims he had lost by formal reasons, the third and last one he had won...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wm6cJXW_1s

Google-Translation of german Wikipedia about his Chemtrail-Claims:

Kachelmann positioned as explicit opponents of chemtrail conspiracy theory. 2011, he described the followers of the conspiracy theory in e-mail, YouTube videos and Twitter posts as "Nazis", "crazy" and "Chemtraildeppen". In March 2012, the Landgericht Berlin back an injunction, the court considered the statement that supporters of the conspiracy theory "neo-Nazis and Crazy", be covered by the freedom of expression.
Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jörg_Kachelmann#Chemtrails

English Wikipedia-Article about Jörg Kachelmann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jörg_Kachelmann
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Mick, I appreciate what you are saying.... that particular image is just a stock image from Google and is used to illustrate the criss crosses that readers talk about. I don’t think the actuals trails themselves can be a mile wide, that’s 6,000 feet after all!

Here's the aqua image for the SW of the UK today:
http://lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov/imagery/subsets/?subset=United_Kingdom_Ireland.2012334.aqua.250m


And here's the width of one of the trails at it's widest point over land (and it's actually wider off the coast)
 
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jvnk08

Senior Member.
Here's the aqua image for the SW of the UK today:
http://lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov/imagery/subsets/?subset=United_Kingdom_Ireland.2012334.aqua.250m ...
And here's the width of one of the trails at it's widest point over land (and it's actually wider off the coast) ...

Great stuff Mick. I've often wondered if it would be helpful to map, to scale, the size of trails and the aircraft in an easy to understand fashion(perhaps with a man-scale figure and other objects for reference as well). That way people could see very easily that this tiny, tiny speck of a plane could not possibly hold the material necessary to explain a trail hundreds of miles long and perhaps even a mile or more thick.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
As the trails expand up to several miles wide, that is one reason that some observers perceive that they are falling down, or being laid much lower than other, fresher, or younger contrails which have not yet expanded.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Great stuff Mick. I've often wondered if it would be helpful to map, to scale, the size of trails and the aircraft in an easy to understand fashion(perhaps with a man-scale figure and other objects for reference as well). That way people could see very easily that this tiny, tiny speck of a plane could not possibly hold the material necessary to explain a trail hundreds of miles long and perhaps even a mile or more thick.

Yes, I agree completely! That sort of animation would be an excellent way to explain the factual fallacy I was elucidating in my posting about the "Ice Budget Argument":

I think this topic is very important, since it goes to the premise of chemtrails. It probably should be first in line. One element of the argument which deserves good coverage, at contrailscience or metabunk, is to explain the "ice-budget" argument.

Essentially, this argument says that there is no amount of a substance could be carried in payload which could account for the optical density of a persistent contrail. The only possible source for such a mass is accretion of water vapor from the air onto the contrail particles formed by the exhaust.

Here is an early reference predating 'chemtrails' from the 1970's which found that the ice budget shows an aged persistent contrail contained four orders of magnitude (104​ or 10,000 times more) mass than the original ice mass generated by combustion:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8IGQAg&usg=AFQjCNGGiZ_piRGvTDFIvoqfMrOOFupbhg

Though I spoke of optical density above, physical size of the expanded contrail is perhaps more important because the eye probably detects physical size better than density.

Maybe some graphic static or animated could help show this fact which would better explain the concept.

Any thoughts?

Is anyone on here a graphic artist who could create such a video? It would greatly enhance our cause if it could be done?

In this thread, I am actually looking for new material created by folks right here and now, but idea submissions like these are great!
 
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jvnk08

Senior Member.
Yes, I agree completely! That sort of animation would be an excellent way to explain the factual fallacy I was elucidating in my posting about the "Ice Budget Argument":



Is anyone on here a graphic artist who could create such a video? It would greatly enhance our cause if it could be done?

In this thread, I am actually looking for new material created by folks right here and now, but idea submissions like these are great!

Agreed, a short video would be ideal, though barring that some nice images would do.

We should also include some math to dispel any notion that such a material could be "compressed" to carry enough, which has been a common counter-point brought up when I put forth the ice budget argument.

Besides the payload weight still increasing(which people seem to think compression would not do), I doubt you could handle sufficient compression with a large enough tank to counter the weight gain and thus carry enough. The containment mechanism would surely weight a substantial amount as well.

Additionally I don't even know about the complexities of having a compressed container within a differently compressed cabin at such altitudes, though surely it's been done before.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm going to write a post on Contrail Science about the Ice Budget argument. Something along the lines of "How much would a Chemtrail weigh"?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Agreed, a short video would be ideal, though barring that some nice images would do.

We should also include some math to dispel any notion that such a material could be "compressed" to carry enough, which has been a common counter-point brought up when I put forth the ice budget argument.

Besides the payload weight still increasing(which people seem to think compression would not do), I doubt you could handle sufficient compression with a large enough tank to counter the weight gain and thus carry enough. The containment mechanism would surely weight a substantial amount as well.

Additionally I don't even know about the complexities of having a compressed container within a differently compressed cabin at such altitudes, though surely it's been done before.

Compression makes no sense. The only things you can really compress are A) gasses, and B) things with some empty space (i.e. solids mixed with air/gasses). You could "compress" something like aluminum oxide powder, but you'd just end up with a solid block of aluminum oxide. You can no more compress Aluminum Oxide than you can compress water (i.e. you can't) Anyway, it's going to be the mass that's the limiting factor, not the volume.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
As the trails expand up to several miles wide, that is one reason that some observers perceive that they are falling down, or being laid much lower than other, fresher, or younger contrails which have not yet expanded.

The problem of perspective when standing on the ground looking into the opaqueness of the sky is lost on most Believers as they "know what they see"- contrails farther away/lower on the horizon are "lower" than the other trails.

The problem of backwards shadows when contrails look lower the clouds but are higher casting shadows down (or vice versa??)

Contrails do create fall streaks and virga which are "dripping" to be Believer...because they "know" natural clouds would never do that.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Agreed, a short video would be ideal, though barring that some nice images would do.

We should also include some math to dispel any notion that such a material could be "compressed" to carry enough, which has been a common counter-point brought up when I put forth the ice budget argument.

Besides the payload weight still increasing(which people seem to think compression would not do), I doubt you could handle sufficient compression with a large enough tank to counter the weight gain and thus carry enough. The containment mechanism would surely weight a substantial amount as well.

Additionally I don't even know about the complexities of having a compressed container within a differently compressed cabin at such altitudes, though surely it's been done before.

I happen to be involved with some pretty slick videomakers. I'm happy to run this project by them to see if they'd be willing to edit it together.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
It occurred to me that people will likely use things like this to counter such an argument(which, of course, blatantly disregards the vast difference between the distance of these planes and a plane at cruising altitude making contrails):

 
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