1. Danny55

    Danny55 Senior Member

  2. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    He's really got it bad.

    I wrote him once and he described following the trails northwards one day to "find out where they are coming from". He followed them up to the NE tip of Maine and saw them heading out towards Europe. I explained that this was transatlantic traffic, but he would not understand the Great Circle concept.
  3. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Senior Member

    Holy smokes. That's all i can say. This stuff always knocks me back a few steps. I'm fairly new to this warped world of conspiracists. I just don't seem able to get used to people so detached from reality. I went to his home page (http://russtanner.com/) and it looks like this guy is just completely paranoid about everything outside his basement. I kept looking for the link to some product he was selling, but i couldn't find any, which makes his paranoia even scarier. :confused:
  4. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Do you guys really think Russ tanner is a genuine?
    He seems to be flogging the usual wares for profit or perhaps commission on his website globalskywatch: http://www.globalskywatch.com/resources/bumper-stickers/ http://www.globalskywatch.com/resources/clothing/ and of course owns "Herbal lure.com"


    He seems to have changed his tune from contrails are short, chemtrails are long to the new meme all trails are chemtrails regardless of how long they are.

    He's rather happy to erase any verifiable info from his website that contradicts his assertions. He started a disinfo agent thread on Global skywatch specifically citing myself. http://globalskywatch.com/chemtrails/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2206#Post2206
    So I registered and provided a detailed and verifiable CV with links to IMDB.com, various film reviews Starwars crew lists etc and naturally he deleted the post as the reality contradicted the fiction he was trying to create.
    IMO Dudes like that are more concerning than unwitting gullible followers of a conspiracy theory. They are unethical people who know they are selling snake oil and deliberately driving the hoax and modifying their fiction as awareness changes in the believers.
    Folks like Peekay22 and Lasvegas Skywatch have introduced the realisation that the trails are coming from passenger jets so the hoax narrative will probably evolve in that direction for a while until the "short trails are chemtrails too" and "invisible chemtrails" meme spreads.
    It's possible they figure the more outlandish they make the hoax will not necessarily reduce income, because only the more gullible folk will tend to buy their products anyway. The sillier the claims, the more targeted and selective the marketing is , weeding out the less credulous and less likely to BUY and focusing on the easily suggestible.
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I tend to think he is genuine, at least to a degree. I think the majority of these people do believe what they are saying. Sometimes they will throw stuff in because it simply sounds right, and they don't actually take the time to verify or question something. But they believe that what they are doing is broadly right, so the details are irrelevant.

    They also don't think the same way you and I do. Their reasoning processes are different. They have a "crippled epistemology". What may appear to us to be an obvious falsehood, or even deliberate lying, might make perfect sense to them, and appear obviously true. In some cases there are also elements of mental illness.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Susstein1.pdf

  6. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    I like this bit:

    Next to a photo of B-17's. Are these the "turboprops" he mentions?:rolleyes:

    and did they carry water for injection? I've found a couple of references to it on the web, but nothing really definitive.

    Even if they did have it, if they dumped any remaining water after takeoff it would have been immediately afterwards so as to lighten the load of the unnecessary burden for climbing - not while they were cruising over Germany!
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Mike, I can't even tell what he's trying to say there.

    The classic image of water injection is this one of B-52s in 1986

    [​IMG]

    Water injection increases power for takeoff. The black smoke is soot.

    Hmm, I guess reading from his other comments, he thinks that burning kerosene only produces carbon, hence the only reason for water in the exhaust would be if it were part of a water injection system. He's got a crippled understanding of chemistry, and any effort to correct him is derided as "scientism".

    Real world combusion of kerosene:
    C12H26 + 37/2 O2 → 12 CO2 + 13 H2O

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  8. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    I think he's trying to say that pictures of B-17's streaming contrails are actually them dumping water after takeoff, hence "out of context", or are doctored.

    Not sure whether he wrote that after Tankerenemy did his "WW2 contrails are a hoax" video or not, but it certainly shows an ignorance of history & aircraft as well as chemistry & physics.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  9. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Senior Member

    This makes sense, but how to explain the conspiracist who is spoon fed factual information but discards it, preferring instead to hold on to their crippled knowledge? :cool:
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Like Michael Murphy said,

    There's a chasm, it needs bridging. It's not easy to do when they don't realize there's a chasm. At least the schoolchildren understand that algebra is simply something that's too complicated for them right now. But the conspiracists who ignore facts think those facts are lies, or irrelevancies.

    We debunkers can have gaps in our thinking too - especially if we fail to understand the thinking of those who we are debunking. Michael J. Murphy thinks we are evil people trying to subvert the truth, so anything we say is automatically tinted with suspicion. The more effort you put into trying to explain something, the more that justifies his belief that you have an ulterior motive. The more eloquently you phrase something, and the more research you do, that's just another brick in the wall.

    Murphy is not stupid. He's just set in his ways, very resistent to change.

    Tanner is also, in his way, not stupid. He's just REALLY set in his ways, and very strange ways they are too.
  11. Danny55

    Danny55 Senior Member

    The thread on Chemtrails Kill is now up to 167 posts. Trying to get him to look at Extreme spotting photos at the moment, but he's not commenting so far.
  12. firepilot

    firepilot Senior Member

    Aircraft with those systems can not dump the water used, since it was not that much anyways. I am flying an aircraft that at one time had water injection installed, and there is no way to get rid of any remaining. It was just enough to supress detonation on max power for takeoff.

    Someone will have to tell him that turboprops, ARE jet engines.
  13. Des O

    Des O New Member

    Ya I have been on that thread. The whole combustion not producing water was incredible. So millions of scientists and engineers involved in anything to do with an internal combustion or jet engine have actually been practicing scientism???? Wow!
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This "scientism" thing seems to be a bit of a trend right now. A useful way of diverting attention from the facts . "Oh, that's just 'science', you can ignore it". Rather sadly it seems to be working. It's an appeal to anti-intellectualism which always finds some support. This is taking it a bit far though.
  15. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    It might be helpful to point out to such folks all the things that result from this easily dismissible science, such as telecommunications: gps, television, radio, phones, computers, plastics, synthetic fibres, manufacturing, medicine, agriculture, automobiles, aircraft, internal combustion engines, rocketry, microscopy, etc etc. Virtually every single artefact and activity they come in contact from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed is the result of science but many seem happy to dismiss it.
    Perhaps some caves should be set aside for these folks?

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