Seals of Approval

HappyMonday

Moderator
Hypothetically,if you were writing a chemtrails factsheet for public consumption,which bodies would you approach to certify the facts you present?

I'm thinking pilots associations,atmospheric scentists groups etc,plus any personalities that are aware of the conspiracy theory.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
How would such an organisation "certify" a fact sheet?:confused:

NASA doesn't get someone else to "certify" their fact sheets - and if you wanted to write one about something you would probably only list your sources of information.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
'Certify' is perhaps not the best word to use.

You do see organisations review and / or endorse things,especially if it's a PR exercise in translating science facts into a different form of delivery than is usual.That's what I'd be looking for.In this case,it isn't for a factsheet,but something a little more unusual.

I think it's important from the perspective of members of the general public who are not believers in the chemtrails CT.Organisations endorsing the facts as accurate will add weight to the debunkers position,especially if the debunker has no training etc.
 

Fred259

New Member
I would agree with you here Happy Monday. Essentially what you are saying is lets provide irrefutable evidence backed by respected organisations in an attempt to stop the public being convinced by the message from those who are systemically challenged.


However, we are (in my opinion) talking about victims here. Most people correctly understand what jet trails are and as such respected organisations would wonder why a “ Seal of Approval” is necessary in the first place.


You have a good heart Happy Monday. You are well meaning and concerned. The same can be said for many on this site.


Cobra , who is a Qantas pilot suggested it might be possible to take some chemmies local to him in Australia on a “walk around” ie he would show them, and provide an explanation and inspect the underside of an aircraft. Cobra did say Qantas would need to approve this obviously. Qantas will never ever allow this to happen and rightly so. It would be a public relations disaster.


Cobra will say - “These Static Wicks" are fitted at the edge of the wings and are used for dissipating unwanted electrical static to atmosphere.


Chemmies will think - Oh my God !! just look at this... here is absolute proof!. and “this is how they do it..... and this is how its done.”


Cobra will say - These pipes are hydraulic lines from a local hydraulic tank.


Chemmies will think - “Tank” that must be the Chem tank. The word hydraulic is completely lost and is instead replaced with Chemicals


Engineers talk about the “jet pipe temperature”, what they really mean is the temperature at the back of the engine. It isn’t a pipe at all. They mean the temperature at the back of the engine,. Chemmies however think “PIPE”, which then becomes.....


“This is yet more absolute proof, we have already seen spray nozzles, tanks and now pipes, which will be followed by.... Boy oh boy I must get this on You Tube........


A very small minority of people have experienced the re-conceptualisation of reality and as such they are now the victims of this disgusting mind control or brain washing process.


Those who preach this message of deception are most definitely lost and broken.


The people listening to those who are preaching this nonsense are therefore in danger. If they continue to read and support the words and understanding from the lost and broken, they in turn will also become lost and broken.


This is a very serious issue. Lives are being psychologically destroyed.


We need to discuss why they think this way?
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
There's a thread about it I think.

I'm intending to innoculate people against these beliefs. Those who've already bought in are lost to reason until such time as they come around on their own.My plan is not to target them.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Probably the AOPA or similar org will eventually address the issue. Hopefully it would come before an incident. I've thought that mediating with the FAA to have a responsible believer with high standing observe during a strong contrail day at an FAA ATC facility might help, but cannot really think of a responsible chemmie.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Update:

We are losing the battle against the chemtrails believers. They are gaining ground steadily.

Trends.jpg

Here is the projection:
Trends forecast.jpg

Unless something changes, eventually the whole world will believe in chemtrails.
just kidding.....
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
How would such an organisation "certify" a fact sheet?:confused:

NASA doesn't get someone else to "certify" their fact sheets - and if you wanted to write one about something you would probably only list your sources of information.

Well, the EPA did get NASA, NOAA and the FAA to put their seals on the 2000 EPA Aircraft Contrails Factsheet - a sheet that should have really disproven then chemtrail conspiracy theory had the theorists A) read it and B) not been convinced that science is all part of the plot.



http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/policy_guidance/envir_policy/media/contrails.pdf

The Military fact sheet had no such logos, just some references.
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/afd-051013-001.pdf
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Probably the AOPA or similar org will eventually address the issue. Hopefully it would come before an incident. I've thought that mediating with the FAA to have a responsible believer with high standing observe during a strong contrail day at an FAA ATC facility might help, but cannot really think of a responsible chemmie.

AOPA is a general aviation organization, so it's mostly aimed at pilots of small private planes. Interestingly though they did publish an article on contrails in 1998, which covered the topic quite well
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1998/contrails9809.html

 

BrassTacks

New Member
Cobra will say - “These Static Wicks" are fitted at the edge of the wings and are used for dissipating unwanted electrical static to atmosphere.

Chemmies will think - Oh my God !! just look at this... here is absolute proof!. and “this is how they do it..... and this is how its done.”

Cobra will say - These pipes are hydraulic lines from a local hydraulic tank.

Chemmies will think - “Tank” that must be the Chem tank. The word hydraulic is completely lost and is instead replaced with Chemicals

Engineers talk about the “jet pipe temperature”, what they really mean is the temperature at the back of the engine. It isn’t a pipe at all. They mean the temperature at the back of the engine,. Chemmies however think “PIPE”, which then becomes.....

“This is yet more absolute proof, we have already seen spray nozzles, tanks and now pipes, which will be followed by.... Boy oh boy I must get this on You Tube........

You are exactly right, Fred. Just like when witnesses of the towers collapsing on 9/11 said it "sounded like an explosion" and the 9/11 Truthers took that as proof that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You are exactly right, Fred. Just like when witnesses of the towers collapsing on 9/11 said it "sounded like an explosion" and the 9/11 Truthers took that as proof that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition.

I think though if people are shown real things by a real person (like static wicks) then it's very different from simply reading about them. The personal connection is very important. I was quite amazed how much easier it was to explain things to people in person when they seem really resistent on-line. Of course it does not work for everyone. But here's one example:



Charlie Veitch gave up his beliefs after meeting the real people involved. Even though he's still anti-establishment. His doubts start around 20 minutes into the full show. Here's what he said during the filming.

He very specifically says it was meeting the real people that changed his mind.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
However, we are (in my opinion) talking about victims here. Most people correctly understand what jet trails are and as such respected organisations would wonder why a “ Seal of Approval” is necessary in the first place.

Just noticed this, I was skim reading before my earlier reply.

I'm not of the opinion that most people correctly understand what jet-trails are, because I don't think it crosses their mind. Anybody who has never thought about, or been trained in a discipline which would naturally give them an alternative insight, is potentially a victim of this false belief.

I've seen a case in point tonight on Twitter. A prominent underground musician, who's every post on Facebook is directed to 9000 people, was tweeting pictures of CT's and connecting them to feeling unwell.

He isn't a random boob, but an exceptionally erudite and linguistically gifted performer which would suggest a certain level of intelligence. Yet he's gulled by a hoax.
 

Fred259

New Member
I agree with you Monday that most people don’t really consider jet trails in normal everyday life.


They do however in my opinion accept that these trails are associated with the engines. I don’t think for one moment that they even consider the chemical spraying suggestion.


I suppose potentially we are all susceptible to some degree of mind manipulation however don’t you think most people would normally just dismiss these spurious suggestions, and link the trails to the engines.


Your comment about the musician can only be a concern.. Just another aspect of the overall problem you could say.


I remain convinced that some serious money is being made available to facilitate these myths.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I agree with you Monday that most people don’t really consider jet trails in normal everyday life.


They do however in my opinion accept that these trails are associated with the engines. I don’t think for one moment that they even consider the chemical spraying suggestion.


I suppose potentially we are all susceptible to some degree of mind manipulation however don’t you think most people would normally just dismiss these spurious suggestions, and link the trails to the engines.


Your comment about the musician can only be a concern.. Just another aspect of the overall problem you could say.


I remain convinced that some serious money is being made available to facilitate these myths.
Who benefits from the money spent?? What are their motives ??
 

Fred259

New Member
I see these control mechanism as declining fortunes in the West as we know it with rising expectations in the Asia Pac Regions. You only need to go to Kazakhstan and you will see what I mean.
 

Fred259

New Member
I see these control mechanism as declining fortunes in the West as we know it with rising expectations in the Asia Pac Regions. You only need to go to Kazakhstan and you will see what I mean.

Where do you think we are on this chart?



LLTA7.jpg
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I see these control mechanism as declining fortunes in the West as we know it with rising expectations in the Asia Pac Regions. You only need to go to Kazakhstan and you will see what I mean.

Where do you think we are on this chart?



LLTA7.jpg
What is the source of your chart ?? If you tell me that maybe I will understand your point. . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
George.... You asked me where I got the chart from, and the answer is a book about the KGB. So its really about Marxist / Leninism and Soviet subversion of the west.


Then you ask if its alive and capable, and I would have to say we should assume it is!
So you think the promotion of the Chemtrail conspiracy is a plot by the KGB to discredit the leadership of the West??
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Fred, it sounds like you are just replacing one conspiracy theory with another.

Perhaps you could be direct about the claims you are making, and provide the evidence for those claims?
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
I agree with you Monday that most people don’t really consider jet trails in normal everyday life.


They do however in my opinion accept that these trails are associated with the engines. I don’t think for one moment that they even consider the chemical spraying suggestion.


I suppose potentially we are all susceptible to some degree of mind manipulation however don’t you think most people would normally just dismiss these spurious suggestions, and link the trails to the engines.


Your comment about the musician can only be a concern.. Just another aspect of the overall problem you could say.


I remain convinced that some serious money is being made available to facilitate these myths.

I agree RE association with engines,and that's actually part of the danger. I'm willing to bet the point of conversion for many believers is the point at which somebody points out the 'some trails persist,others don't THEREFORE there's a difference in source'. That was me not twelve months ago.

The insidiousness of chemtrails is that it exploits both ignorance of complex engineering/atmospheric matters with a simple 'look up' premise for discovery.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I agree RE association with engines,and that's actually part of the danger. I'm willing to bet the point of conversion for many believers is the point at which somebody points out the 'some trails persist,others don't THEREFORE there's a difference in source'. That was me not twelve months ago.

The insidiousness of chemtrails is that it exploits both ignorance of complex engineering/atmospheric matters with a simple 'look up' premise for discovery.
That coupled with the real possibility that persistent contrails are more numerous, frequent and obvious than they were in 1950s-1980s at least for the people who are old enough to remember . . .
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Just noticed this, I was skim reading before my earlier reply.

I'm not of the opinion that most people correctly understand what jet-trails are, because I don't think it crosses their mind. Anybody who has never thought about, or been trained in a discipline which would naturally give them an alternative insight, is potentially a victim of this false belief.

I've seen a case in point tonight on Twitter. A prominent underground musician, who's every post on Facebook is directed to 9000 people, was tweeting pictures of CT's and connecting them to feeling unwell.

He isn't a random boob, but an exceptionally erudite and linguistically gifted performer which would suggest a certain level of intelligence. Yet he's gulled by a hoax.

BTW, Bianca Jagger has been tweeting around her support for the chemtrails hoax.

Not as young as she used to be....

bianca_jagger_5268539.jpg
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Happy Monday said:
He isn't a random boob, but an exceptionally erudite and linguistically gifted performer which would suggest a certain level of intelligence. Yet he's gulled by a hoax.
Google trends doesn't currently show it, but when the artist "Prince" announced on the nationally broadcast Public Broadcasting System PBS's Tavis Smiley show that he believed in chemtrails, interest shot through the roof, eclipsing the premiere of WITWATS. Interest has never been higher, so an appeal to authority can generate an enormous buzz, that is shown by the data.

trend.jpg

Note: the spike of 1/1/2011 is unexplainable to me, perhaps an artifact.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Google trends doesn't currently show it, but when the artist "Prince" announced on the nationally broadcast Public Broadcasting System PBS's Tavis Smiley show that he believed in chemtrails, interest shot through the roof, eclipsing the premiere of WITWATS. Interest has never been higher, so an appeal to authority can generate an enormous buzz, that is shown by the data.

trend.jpg

Note: the spike of 1/1/2011 is unexplainable to me, perhaps an artifact.

The 1/11/2011 spike was due to the Beebe mass bird die-off. The word "chemtrails" did not make the news much, so Google does not list it, but there was massive subculture speculation.
http://firstarkansasnews.net/2011/01/working-to-solve-beebes-new-years-eve-bird-mystery/
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chemtrails%2C+today&lclk=today

That is one of the biggest single days of "chemtrail" uploads I've seen on youtube.

A weak upper level trough moved over the Arkansas - Missouri area yesterday and made for great contrail conditions. A lot of videos from that area alone from a single day of cirrus clouds and contrails.

Oh Yeah. I awoke early and knew the day would be good for contrails here in Arkansas. Plenty of cirrus and uncinus stretching out. It started early and lasted all day, there were persistent contrails passing across a near-full moon up til 9pm when I got home. I never smelled anything and feel fine today.

I spent sometime on another google site looking at the current charts, wondering about that spike, thanks for clearing it up and it certainly makes sense.

The site is "Google Correlate" and it might interest someone.

Google Correlate finds search patterns which correspond with real-world trends
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Is it true that conformation bias, confirmation bias, and affirmation biases all exist, and are there nuances which make these different from each other?

I only know of confirmation bias, originally from a handbook on evolutionary psychology. There are different terms for the same thing in different countries sometimes however.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Google trends doesn't currently show it, but when the artist "Prince" announced on the nationally broadcast Public Broadcasting System PBS's Tavis Smiley show that he believed in chemtrails, interest shot through the roof, eclipsing the premiere of WITWATS. Interest has never been higher, so an appeal to authority can generate an enormous buzz, that is shown by the data.

trend.jpg

Note: the spike of 1/1/2011 is unexplainable to me, perhaps an artifact.

One more reason to think the artist formerly known as squiggly line Prince is an asshole.
 
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