satanic cults/conspiracies

Giuliano Taverna

New Member
So in addition to the recent shooting I've been having a number of debates with someone who genuinely believes that Satan is active in america, (as unsurprising as that might be in this context.) She basically told me in addition to people suffering from PTSD as a consequence of satanic ritual abuse, and tied that to the more conventional BS regarding the bohemian grove and the NWO, (a lot of her websites had Illuminati but I got her to concede that point by explaining what the historical Bavarian Illuminati actually was)

I have to run to an appointment but more on this later. I welcome any input or commentary in the meantime.

Giuliano Taverna

New Member
Right, now one of the disturbing things I got out of the person was the idea that the government is setting people up by brainwashing them, she mentioned the Manchurian candidate, (the remake not the original, I've only seen the original.) I basically dismissed it as science fiction.

That said I have yet to come up with a dismissal for the weird things rich people get up to, I usually brush it off as fraternity pranks for old people, and while that is more or less what's actually going on it doesn't quite feel satisfactory, it would be much better if I could point to an article or a report done on this stuff that objectively debunks the claims one by one.

I tried to find details regarding the most cutting edge research in bionics and neuroscience to demonstrate how far from mind control we are but all I could come up with as an article about bionic eyes.

Mick West

Staff member
Satanic ritual abuse is basically a Christian conspiracy theory. There's parallels with McCarthyism and the the "Red Scare". Wikipedia has a good article on what happened:

Your sig is quite appropriate as a response to both questions you raise: "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence". Most conspiracy theories are things for which there is no real evidence. Debunking them consists of A) asking for the evidence, and B) explaining why the evidence is bunk. (and sadly also C - explaining why the theory itself is bunk, if it's only based on bunk evidence, but they keep promoting it anyway).

Giuliano Taverna

New Member
Yeah I actually made the point that this all became very popular right around the time when the soviet union collapsed implying a link in the need to fear some external threat. That and the belief in it had real consequences, false confessions induced under coercive therapy leading to arrests.

With all of this its often hard to see a point in debating. Its clearly a quasi or outright religious conviction and yet it bothers me that otherwise normal people can harbor ideas as crazy as this.

Actually there was one connection I was trying to make, in my friend's long winded rant about satanic imagery used in hip hop, (the skeletons in the video thing that was debunked in that other thread) I pointed out that it appeared to be a transparently racist idea. However I couldn't find any direct reference to that point. I imagine there is some article somewhere pointing out that a specific white supremacist church started this meme and goes on to explain it. However I couldn't find that or indeed anything on the subject other than the conspiratorial websites supporting the claim. Perhaps I'm using the wrong key words but I tried all I could think of.

Giuliano Taverna

New Member
My point is that accusing hiphop of being literally satanic is racist. As for heavy metal, the whole concept of that is different. You don't get rappers covering themselves in goats blood or biting off the head of a pigeon, to the extent that they have guns and dead people in their music videos... it seems clear to me that satanism is not the theme. The only exclusion to that would be D12 and Eminem is quite white, (I used to be a fan.)

Charlie Primero

Active Member
My point is that accusing hiphop of being literally satanic is racist.

No, it's not.

In order to claim racism, you would need to know the motivations of the person criticizing a particular pop music artist for employing occult symbology.

Otherwise, every atheist who criticized Rev. Jesse Jackson's promotion of Christianity could be legitimately labeled a racist.