Sandy Hook: Search Warrants

betamonk

Member
View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-14-2012-at-529-pm.pdf
View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-15-2012-at-303-pm.pdf
View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-14-2012-at-725-pm.pdf
View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-16-2012-at-431-pm.pdf
View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-14-2012-redacted.pdf

First off, I don't think Sandy Hook was a hoax. I am kind of playing devil's advocate here.

But, I have been reading through the search warrants, and this does jump out at me. In the trunk of Adam's car, the search warrant states that they seized "two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds." I found this particularly interesting because I have been in the market for a Saiga 12 recently and have done some research. To date, the absolute largest magazine that I have found is actually a drum magazine that holds 30 rounds. If the search warrant is saying that there were 70 total rounds split between the two magazines, this would require each to hold at least 35 rounds. I can't find one that large to save my life. My gut tells me this is a mistake (although I would find it odd for there to be such a significant error on the search warrant details), and they actually seized two magazines containing 70 rounds of .223 ammo for the ar15. Further to this point, it would undoubtedly have to be a drum magazine to have this kind of capacity for 12 gauge rounds. I would think that the search warrant would have specified if it was a drum magazine if it was detailed enough to specify the make and caliber of the rounds. This is likely going to add fuel to the fire of the conspiracy saying that 2 long guns were seen being removed from the trunk. Can anybody predebunk this one and find a magazine for the Saiga 12 that holds 35 rounds? I have looked everywhere I know to look, and I can't find one.

Page 14 of december-14-2012-redacted warrant
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That does seem wrong, the Saiga that was removed looked like it had a regular magazine on it.

Maybe it was the Saiga with a regular 10 round mag, plus two 30 round drums, and they considered the 10 round mag part of the the Saiga. When you buy it it comes with a magazine (I imagine, I'm not a gun buyer).

Ten round magazine:
http://www.climags.com/saiga-12-gauge-10-round-magazine-promag/


30 Round drum (EDIT: actually 20, see a few posts below for a 30 round drum)
 
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betamonk

Member
That does seem wrong, the Saiga that was removed looked like it had a regular magazine on it.

Maybe it was the Saiga with a regular 10 round mag, plus two 30 round drums, and they considered the 10 round mag part of the the Saiga. When you buy it it comes with a magazine (I imagine, I'm not a gun buyer).

Ten round magazine:
http://www.climags.com/saiga-12-gauge-10-round-magazine-promag/


30 Round drum

interesting. that could make sense. saiga's usually ship new with a 5 rd mag (there are various legal issues and hurdles to putting more than a 5 rd mag on one). but, a 10 rd and 2 30 rds would make sense. i would consider it debunked and likely that there is an incomplete description (10 rd mag not specified) in the search warrant. im sure this is being discussed on mb's around the country.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It could just be careless comma usage, your OP except was:

"two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."

Which does sound impossible. However the actual text is:

"One Saiga 12 Shotgun, serial number ...., with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."

Which would fit my explanation with the addition of a comma after the word "magazines"

"One Saiga 12 Shotgun, serial number ...., with two magazines, containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."
 

betamonk

Member
It could just be careless comma usage, your OP except was:

"two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."

Which does sound impossible. However the actual text is:

"One Saiga 12 Shotgun, serial number ...., with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."

Which would fit my explanation with the addition of a comma after the word "magazines"

"One Saiga 12 Shotgun, serial number ...., with two magazines, containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."

i see what you're trying to get at, but specifying two magazines if there was a third in the gun seems incomplete to me.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
i see what you're trying to get at, but specifying two magazines if there was a third in the gun seems incomplete to me.

Agreed, but some cop not being 100% clear on a warrant seems a lot more sensible than the entire thing being faked by the media :)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
And I feel pretty sure there's going to be lots more "unanswered questions" that come out of these warrants. There's already been quite an uptick in Sandy Hook related searches.

Like in the 529 warrant on page 6 it says "several handguns", when there were just two. This is just a lack of precision (perhaps when writing the warrant they had conflicting recollections from the investigators), but it will be seized on as "evidence" of something.
 

betamonk

Member
yeah, i caught "several" when i was reading through.

as far as people seizing on this type of thing (hopefully this doesn't result in threadbleed), i'm waiting for the day when some congressman trying to push gun control legislation jumps up in the middle of a congressional hearing and loudly proclaims "adam lanza had 2 clips that each held 70 rounds of shotgun shells!!! he had 140 rounds in 2 clips!!! who needs that many shells unless they're going to kill people?"

that's the kind of stuff that comes out of this type of thing sometimes, and it frustrates me, cuz dude, I need that many shells to properly execute zombies!!!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Check out the list of stuff recovered from the house:

(The following text was generated by OCR from the dec-14 529 warrant, so may contain errors)
I've highlighted the shotgun magazines. No 30 rounds, presumably because he took them with him.
 

betamonk

Member
i don't think that's a complete list either. i think that's just from one of the search warrants from the house. there was also a few pictures of what appeared to be a dead body wrapped in plastic with blood...that one was kind of odd.

for what it's worth, that seems like a lot of ammo...it really isn't. folks have been stockpiling recently due to shortages.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"- Small plastic bag of screws and alien "

holy crap. this deserves a new thread. can we debunk it?

:)
That was a quick OCR, it's "screws and allen" (small allen screws are often used on guns)


I'll fix it above.

The word "allen" might also just be shorthand for "allen wrench"

Typical allen screw and wrench on a Glock accessory:
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
yeah, i have the button, but nothing happens when i click save. maybe it's just something on my end.

Click it harder.

Sometimes I have to click it twice, however I suspect there might be something going on at your end, maybe a spam blocking plugin, or buggy IE. Sorry.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
i don't think that's a complete list either. i think that's just from one of the search warrants from the house. there was also a few pictures of what appeared to be a dead body wrapped in plastic with blood...that one was kind of odd.

for what it's worth, that seems like a lot of ammo...it really isn't. folks have been stockpiling recently due to shortages.

Shoot, I have 2 shotguns and a rifle and I have half a box of shells, I guess I won't be doing much defending myself in the near future.
 

vash1972

New Member
And I feel pretty sure there's going to be lots more "unanswered questions" that come out of these warrants. There's already been quite an uptick in Sandy Hook related searches.

Like in the 529 warrant on page 6 it says "several handguns", when there were just two. This is just a lack of precision (perhaps when writing the warrant they had conflicting recollections from the investigators), but it will be seized on as "evidence" of something.

Cops also like to leave the door open just in case something else is found later and can be added in.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Oops, counting fail. I thought I got that from a page selling a 30 round drum.

Anyway 30 round drums exist,a nd they work quite effectively. Although carrying two of them around would not be that practical.


Fox News failed slightly harder here:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/2...sed-in-newtown-investigation/?test=latestnews


Large glove compartment :) And also solidifying the mistake of the 70 rounds of ammo just being in two magazines.


 

JonJson

Active Member
Oops, counting fail. I thought I got that from a page selling a 30 round drum.

Anyway 30 round drums exist,a nd they work quite effectively. Although carrying two of them around would not be that practical.

Can't know it for certain but if you remember during the video of them removing the shotgun from the car, one of the guys collecting evidence can be seen lifting something out of the trunk after the gun was removed. It might have been what the two drum magazines were contained in.
 

Tazmanian

Account Closed
In the search warrants, the black Honda is listed as VIN#2HGFA1F51AH54299 so I tried to look it up. It's only 16 numbers. A real VIN is 17 numbers. So then, I ran the license plate through CarFax 872YEO

The VIN# that goes with that license plate is 2HGFA1F51AH542299

Registered in 2-10-2011 Sandy Hook, Title #032544605
Updated title #032570134 on 03-01-2011 and renewed 08-06-2012

It doesn't list the owner's name.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"redacted" page 11:



Close enough. I doubt a typo like that would invalidate the warrant, as it contains sufficient information to uniquely identify the car.

Carfax says:



Did you look at the actual records there? Can you post the last one?
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Does not look like they normally post owners then?
http://vincheckreport.com/post/how-to-find-the-previous-car-owners-by-vin-number-in-4-steps/
Do you think there's something odd here beyond a typo?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
What happened with the NRA adamantly stating that neither Lanza's were actually registered NRA members? The warrant suggests they found both Adam and Nancy's membership certificates, but the NRA said impossible. Did they have fake certificates?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
The NRA pistol shooting certificate does not require an NRA membership.

http://www.gunfaq.org/2013/03/nra-denies-lanza-relationship/


Well, that clears that up. I thought it was fishy how the NRA came straight out and made the claim the Lanza's weren't members after seeing the police released the search warrants, but after seeing how you don't have to be a member to receive their pistol training course certificate, it makes sense.
 
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