Roswell UFO witness: Sgt. Melvin E. Brown

johne1618

Active Member
I present a 1996 video of Sgt. Melvin E. Brown's family telling how he had guarded a crashed UFO in the desert and had seen alien bodies under tarpaulin while accompanying them in a truck back to base. His daughter recounted him saying that the disk-shaped UFO was embedded in the sand so maybe it had crashed near White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico (although his daughter might have been paraphrasing when she used the word "sand") . The experience seems to have affected him deeply especially in his last days. The family had documentation proving that he had worked at the Roswell Army Air Field from 1947 onwards. They point out his picture in a 1947 yearbook for the Roswell Army Air Field but apparently official records claim that he was never there. This seems like evidence of a cover-up by the US military.

How does a skeptic deal with this testimony? He has to say that either Sgt. Brown or his family were lying or both. This seems unlikely to me. It also seems unlikely that he simply misunderstood what he saw unless he was victim to a very elaborate hoax.

Source: https://youtu.be/LCVeL47P6tA
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
Article:
In a CSICOP article Kal K. Korff writes that Sergeant Melvin E. Brown is "touted as a "witness" who saw alien bodies by Roswell authors Friedman, Randle and Schmitt, and Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle (Beyond Roswell)."

He adds that Melvin Brown cannot be considered a witness since he died in 1986 and was never interviewed by UFO researchers. Indeed, the only "proof" one has that Brown was a "witness" comes from his daughter, Beverly Bean, who first made the claim years after his death. No other member of Brown's family supports her claim. Kal K. Korff writes that he had checked Melvin Brown's military file and that they revealed that "he was a cook who held no security clearance and never pulled guard duty."

The Skeptical Enquirer article adds: "Also noted in the book are the blatant contradictions and changes in Beverly Bean's various accounts."

"What Really Happened at Roswell", article by Kal K. Korff, in Skeptical Inquirer magazine, CSICOP, July / August 1997.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This seems unlikely to me.
Remember what Thomas Paine said in The Age of Reason:

Article:
“Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course. But we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time. It is therefore at least millions to one that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie. ”


There are also other possibilities beside lying.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
How does a skeptic deal with this testimony? He has to say that either Sgt. Brown or his family were lying or both. This seems unlikely to me. It also seems unlikely that he simply misunderstood what he saw unless he was victim to a very elaborate hoax.
No. People seem to take things like this not only at face value, but as something that proves an event they already think happened. That's backwards. If this lady is saying something about an alien body her dad saw, it's a starting point and not proof of anything.

As dierdre pointed out above, once somebody started with her story and then researched it, it didn't hold up very well.

UFO proponents often take this backwards approach:

1. We know a saucer crashed at Roswell and aliens bodies were recovered.
2. As proof, we have a second hand testimony of a deathbed confession that doesn't hold up well to scrutiny, but does conform to saucers and aliens at Roswell.

It doesn't work that way, it goes like this:

1. We have a second hand account of a death bed confession about saucers and aliens at Roswell that does not hold up well to scrutiny.
2. Based on that, we do NOT know that a saucer crashed at Roswell and alien bodies were recovered.
 

johne1618

Active Member
1. We have a second hand account of a death bed confession about saucers and aliens at Roswell that does not hold up well to scrutiny.
2. Based on that, we do NOT know that a saucer crashed at Roswell and alien bodies were recovered.

We don't just have one second hand account from Beverley. From the above documentary we have corroborating statements from her sister Harriet and mother Ada.

Also it's not a death bed confession as Melvin told his family about the crashed UFO and aliens about 6-12 times from 1969 to his death in 1986 (according the Beverley at 2:38).

Kal Korff claims (see below) that Beverley's statements don't hold up to scrutiny as they contradict themselves. But it seems to me that the differences are minor and could be due to confusion as to whether she was being asked when her dad confirmed that the alien sighting occurred at Roswell versus when he just told her about aliens without mentioning Roswell.

The discrepancy in the colour of the alien could be due to the tarpaulin. A grey alien under tan tarpaulin could look yellowish.

Beverley was interviewed by Tim Good in 1988 so that was only 2 years after the death of her father.

Although Melvin Brown was employed as a cook he was also a WWII veteran and an expert marksman according to https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/rw/w/beverlybean.htm. In an emergency he could have guarded a crashed UFO along side a large number of other servicemen.

Kal H. Korff:​

In his book, Kal H. Korff insists that no researcher can claim that Sgt. Melvin Brown said anything since he died in 1986 and nobody interviewed him. He says that researchers have wrongly attributed statements to Melvin Brown, which are really statements attributed to Melvin Brown by his daughter Beverly Bean.

Kal H. Korff says that Beverly Bean contradicts herself in the sense that she told Timothy Good that her father first spoke of alien bodies he saw at Roswell when he stumbled upon the Daily Mail article, whereas she told Stanton Friedman that her father told her that he saw a man from outer space when she was a kid. To Kevin Randle and Donald Schmitt, she said that her father told her about seeing aliens at Roswell while the family was watching the moon landing on TV in 1969.

Kal H. Korff says that Sergent Melvin Brown was only a cook and could not have been involved in such a situation. He adds that "Pro-Roswell authors" have conceiled that the description of the alleged alien beings skin is yellowish-orange, "because it does not "jive" with the descriptions of their other "witnesses," who have consistently stated that the aliens skin was gray."

Source:

  • "The Roswell UFO crash, what they don't want you to know", book by Kal H. Korff, Prometheus publisher, USA, pp 81-86, 1997.
Source: https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/rw/w/beverlybean.htm
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
I present a 1996 video of Sgt. Melvin E. Brown's family telling how he had guarded a crashed UFO in the desert

I don't have the time to watch the video but I'm curious how that stacks up against Deirdre's source that says:

"No other member of Brown's family [apart from this daughter] supports her claim."

Since at face value it doesn't seem that both can be true.

Also, I would like to say that I very much approve of Mick's quoting a deist when appealing to reason. :)
 

johne1618

Active Member
I don't have the time to watch the video but I'm curious how that stacks up against Deirdre's source

Since at face value it doesn't seem that both can be true.

From 16:39 her sister Harriet confirms Beverley's story. Her mother Ada chimes in to confirm Harriet's account (17:56) when she describes when an officer says to Melvin "let's go and look at the bodies" but they had already been packed ready for transport out of the air base.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
it is an interesting interview as far as how much they are reiterating from things they see on tv or have read in books. toward teh end Harriet decides what her dad meant on his death bed because she saw an alien show/documentary several weeks later and decided that must be what her dad was talking about.

In this bit they describe their dads [alleged] military honors by reading them from a book called "Alien Liason". um...
1638908011134.png


I dont think these girls are lying. i think they are just exaggerating the memory like often happens. And i dont think the dad was "lying", i think he was telling a tall tale like many dads do.
 

johne1618

Active Member
this is why we have posting guidelines vs just saying "hey watch this half hour video"


i only skimmed the video but i dont think this is what she said. can you transcribe her words in full with a timestamp.

From 2:38 Beverley says her dad told them the story "from half-dozen or so to no more than a dozen or so times".
 

Rory

Senior Member.
I wonder if they got the right Melvin Brown for the medals there? Seems like there are quite a few decorated Melvin Browns but I haven't found one matching our man.

There's Melvin L and a Melvin C, and another Melvin E who died in 1945. Also this Melvin who:

received multiple medals for his service including the American Defense Service Medal, American Campaign Medal, Good Conduct Medal with clasp, and the Victory Medal.

https://archives.falsc.lyrtech.org/agents/people/3015
Content from External Source

Though:

1638911143177.png
Source: https://www.archives.gov/personnel-records-center/fire-1973

So it's quite likely that they're gone.

Also, Korff's original article is here:

https://skepticalinquirer.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/1997/07/p24.pdf

That he did indeed write "no other member of Brown's family supports [Bean's] claim" (the year after the video in the OP) makes me very skeptical about his proficiency in skepticism. :D
 
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johne1618

Active Member
I dont think these girls are lying. i think they are just exaggerating the memory like often happens. And i dont think the dad was "lying", i think he was telling a tall tale like many dads do.

But what about the anguish that both daughters felt about their dad's state of mind in his last days as he alternated between the Bible and Chariots of the Gods? trying to decide if he would meet God or the aliens in the afterlife (8:00 and 21:12).

That seems very real to me.

Also would their WWII veteran dad be so troubled if he was just telling a tall tale?
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
He doesn't sound as if he was quite all there during his final days.

Also quite interesting that Beverly says (at 8:20) that "we'd never heard of this Roswell place" (that he kept going on about while he was dying in 1986).

I thought he'd been telling them all about it for decades?
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
I didn't see deirdre's much more succinct version of what I'm trying to say here until I had this post typed up in Word, so I apologize for being a little redundant.

I only made it about 12:00 in so far, but a couple of points.

First, it’s not a very good interview if someone was trying to understand what was going on. She just rambles and the interview guy rarely questions her or asks for clarification. There is also a number of edits that confuse things a bit more.

It’s very difficult to get a chronology about the story. She says the story was first told to her when she was 9-10 in 1969 but it was just
“...daddy has seen one [flying disk] and their real”(2:01)
Content from External Source
, no more detail. Then she states that
“...as we got older he told us the story half a dozen times maybe no more than a dozen times” (2:40).
Content from External Source
She also says the
“he did tell one of my uncles that it was at an angle”(3:25)
Content from External Source
So was she there when he told the uncle or did she hear that from the uncle? If it's from her uncle, than various versions of the story are being passed around the family. We also get
“...just memories, like I said he never told the story very often” (4:05)
Content from External Source
Ok, so these are her(?) memories of a story that wasn't told very much.

As far as the color of the aliens, what's important is that we get her saying
“…but, apparently any one else who saw the bodies said they looked gray”
Content from External Source
so at the time of this interview, she knows at least some of the Roswell Mythos, more on that later.

Next we get that
“…he had to stand guard duty outside a hanger, where a crashed disk was stored” (5:23)
Content from External Source
It comes off as a, oh yeah here’s this other related story. And it’s been established that he was a cook, not an MP or something like that. Maybe he was needed when the disk first crashed, but now that it’s been retrieved and is ready for shipment one would assume the Army would have someone other than a cook guarding a crashed UFO.

The interviewer starts to do his job, after establishing that she first heard the story in 1969 the guy askes if she ever asked her father to tell the story again to which she replies
“well not until I was a teenager” (5:59) and “…I remembered dad’s story” (6:06)
Content from External Source
in response to the movie CE3K coming out. So, this would suggest that he had not shared the story, or she doesn’t remember hearing it between 1969 and November 1977 when CE3K was released. If that’s true, than the 6-12 times he told the story is between late ’77 and his death in ’86.

Again, it’s very difficult to get a handle on what version of the story is being told to her when. We get some stuff about her dad reading Chariots of the Gods and some cloak and dagger
“…uncle Sam business”(10:02)
Content from External Source
about a mysterious account at a defunct bank.

Finally at 11:52 is where I gave up, because that’s where she says they got ahold of and read The Roswell Incident. Most of what’s in her story and her dad’s story is in that book and it came out in 1980. She described her father as very troubled in later years and connects this to Roswell. If this interview is in 1996, then she has had 10 years to conflate whatever her father told her with what she read in the book and maybe other books and The X Files (1993-2002) although I don’t know if it was available in the UK. Roswell was a big deal in the ‘90s and it's a convoluted mess.

The Roswell Incident
Content from External Source
(1980) was the first book to introduce the controversial second-hand stories of civil engineer Grady "Barney" Barnett and a group of archaeology students from an unidentified university encountering wreckage and "alien bodies" while on the Plains of San Agustin before being escorted away by the Army

Many alleged first-hand accounts of the Roswell incident actually contain information from the Aztec, New Mexico, UFO incident,[32] a hoaxed flying saucer crash which gained national notoriety after being promoted by journalist Frank Scully in his articles and a 1950 book Behind the Flying Saucers. The hoax included stories of humanoid bodies and metals with unusual properties.[33][32][34]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_incident
 

Rory

Senior Member.
How does a skeptic deal with this testimony? He has to say that either Sgt. Brown or his family were lying or both.

Following on from Dave's post about her having read books on Roswell in the years before the interview, I would recommend some reading on false memories and cryptomnesia. There are certainly other possibilities in between truth and lies/make believe.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
But what about the anguish that both daughters felt about their dad's state of mind in his last days as he alternated between the Bible and Chariots of the Gods? trying to decide if he would meet God or the aliens in the afterlife (8:00 and 21:12).
that is not at all what she is saying at 21:12. he didnt read Chariot of Gods in his last days. and he didnt alternate with the bible. and he wasnt trying to decide if he would meet God or the aliens in the afterlife. That's just something Harriet came up with after watching Timothy Good on tv few weeks later, because she couldnt comprehend why the angels would take an American soul back to his [already in Heaven] family in America. I dont know about your deceased family members, but my grandmothers and grandfathers and my old pets and aunts etc are in Heaven above me here in AMerica, they arent over to my right over the UK. :)

I can't get over how awful men are at LISTENING to women when they talk. oy vey.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
Also would their WWII veteran dad be so troubled if he was just telling a tall tale?
freaky coincidence.. was just flipping through the channels and saw "The Texas Chainsaw massacre". The original. I saw that movie once and will never watch it again. Maybe the dad had recently rented The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That would totally explain the "they're in Texas, they're coming for me and they're coming for you!"

just saying.
 

FatPhil

Senior Member.
From 16:39 her sister Harriet confirms Beverley's story. Her mother Ada chimes in to confirm Harriet's account (17:56) when she describes when an officer says to Melvin "let's go and look at the bodies" but they had already been packed ready for transport out of the air base.

Did they bring spices, to annoint the bodies? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_tomb if you don't get the reference)

How is this not just entirely hearsay?
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
It is hearsay, which of course does not necessarily make it false... it just makes it, in the absence of physical evidence that can be tested, not subject to confirmation or refutation. In these cases, we're left with either "I believe them, why would they lie? (or how could they be mistaken?)" on the one hand, and "People lie, or make up stories, or are mistaken, or misremember, very frequently" on the other. Repeat variations on those themes until the thread runs out of steam...
 

Alexandria Nick

Active Member
Dads eh! If I could remember all the bullshit I’ve told my kids down the years ! This has no credibility what so ever.
One of my mom's uncles had this story was always telling about his days in Allied Occupied Germany. He was trying to buy some trinket or something, but couldn't find anyone to accept the new Deutsche Marks he had and how he didn't have any American money because they were supposed to be using the new currency.

Except the entire thing couldn't have happened because he wasn't even in Germany after 1947. The DM wasn't available until 1948.

No matter how much anyone told him this, the story definitely happened, as far as he was concerned.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
I found reading the Wikipedia article about Roswell really interesting since I didn't know many of the intracacies of the story. The fascinating bit is how it basically disappeared from public attention between 1947 and the late 70s when a number of books began to be published which seemed to introduce key elements (such as alien bodies and what they looked like) which 'eyewitnesses' subsequently 'remembered' (though main player and dubious source Jesse Marcel "consistently denied the presence of bodies").

The evolution of the Roswell story reminded me somewhat of the Atlantis story: rather prosaic beginnings - acceptance as mundane - prolonged period of disinterest - later reshaping, embellishment and reemergence - acceptance of the new myth and forgetfulness of the beginning.

In fact, there's something called the "Roswellian syndrome" that describes almost exactly that:

In this syndrome, a myth is proposed to have five distinct stages of development: incident, debunking, submergence, mythologizing, and reemergence and media bandwagon effect. The authors predicted that the Roswellian syndrome would "play out again and again" in other UFO and conspiracy-theory stories.
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NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
The evolution of the Roswell story reminded me somewhat of the Atlantis story: rather prosaic beginnings - acceptance as mundane - prolonged period of disinterest - later reshaping, embellishment and reemergence - acceptance of the new myth and forgetfulness of the beginning.

In fact, there's something called the "Roswellian syndrome" that describes almost exactly that:
Indeed, Roswell could use it's own thread, as I couldn't find one on here. Unfortunately, it's become so convoluted by now it would probably violate the posting guide lines! Maybe it's own sub-forum, with threads addressing different claims like alien bodies, meta-materials, Project Mogul and so on.

The claim here, isn't so much about Roswell, but rather is this interview considered reliable evidence of anything and as we've pointed out, not only is it hearsay, it's recollections of recollections spanning almost 50 years that have been hopelessly intertwined with the post-reemergence Roswell Mythos.

BTW, you can see the Roswellian Syndrome play out in other cases like Kecksberg and Rendlesham Forest.
 

dimebag2

Active Member
What is interesting about Roswell is that as much as the UFO theory is far-fetched with questionable witness reports, the official explanation has never been much clearer. The project Mogul explanation and the associated USAF report has many flaws.

For example why not showing pictures of other project Mogul balloon crashed in the desert ? It should have happened in other occasions no ? That would have put an image on the "debris field" report and corroborated what witnesses described.

What about the "purple flower" tape from a toy factory that allegedly explained purple hieroglyphs on debris reported by witnesses ? Not any single evidence that this tape existed and was manufactured ever surfaced. Not a single piece of this tape survived throughout the years ? Evidence like that would have put speculations to an end, but they never came to light.

Why obsessing with the claim that the report of bodies were explained by USAF dummies thrown out from plane during experiments, when bodies were a secondary (and far-fetched) aspect of the story ?

Not thinking Roswell was an alien crash, but I don't understand why the official explanation was so poorly done, despite putting quite some effort in it (1000 pages). It just added fuel to the conspiracy theory.

Yes it'd be nice to have a section on Roswell :)
 

johne1618

Active Member
He doesn't sound as if he was quite all there during his final days.

Also quite interesting that Beverly says (at 8:20) that "we'd never heard of this Roswell place" (that he kept going on about while he was dying in 1986).

I thought he'd been telling them all about it for decades?

When Beverley recites the canonical version of her father's story from 3:07 she does not mention Roswell.
 

Alexandria Nick

Active Member
For example why not showing pictures of other project Mogul balloon crashed in the desert ? It should have happened in other occasions no ? That would have put an image on the "debris field" report and corroborated what witnesses described.
Assumes there are pictures. There's little to discover from documenting how the debris was arranged and that wasn't really a science yet like it is now. You'd have some guys in a truck out in the desert picking up pieces to dispose of before anyone could wander on out and find them. Basically cleaning up some trash and not much else, as far as they were concerned.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
What is interesting about Roswell is that as much as the UFO theory is far-fetched with questionable witness reports, the official explanation has never been much clearer. The project Mogul explanation and the associated USAF report has many flaws.

For example why not showing pictures of other project Mogul balloon crashed in the desert ? It should have happened in other occasions no ? That would have put an image on the "debris field" report and corroborated what witnesses described.

What about the "purple flower" tape from a toy factory that allegedly explained purple hieroglyphs on debris reported by witnesses ? Not any single evidence that this tape existed and was manufactured ever surfaced. Not a single piece of this tape survived throughout the years ? Evidence like that would have put speculations to an end, but they never came to light.

Why obsessing with the claim that the report of bodies were explained by USAF dummies thrown out from plane during experiments, when bodies were a secondary (and far-fetched) aspect of the story ?

Not thinking Roswell was an alien crash, but I don't understand why the official explanation was so poorly done, despite putting quite some effort in it (1000 pages). It just added fuel to the conspiracy theory.

Yes it'd be nice to have a section on Roswell :)

Isn't Roswell kind of dead and buried? Or at least completely covered already online?

In fact, it seems like it was basically buried for about 30 years after it happened, probably answering some of the questions posed above. For example, there simply wouldn't have been a need to find this tape or take pictures of other Mogul crashes if nobody was talking about it and the whole thing had blown over. It was in the submergence phase - which is perhaps hard to imagine now, what with everything being so instant and available, but even Major Marcel couldn't remember what year it happened when initially interviewed (citation required - it could have been the rancher) whereas anyone who knows even the most cursory details today knows it was 1947.

Also, did they really "obsess with the claim that the bodies were explained by USAF dummies"? Or was that merely suggested as a possibility?

The most memorable thing I read yesterday was from an account of the rancher who said he pushed the wreckage under some brush - so I guess we're back to very very small aliens and an incredibly flimsy and lightweight craft.

Also the bit where he didn't think anything of it until he went into town and heard about the recent UFO craze that everyone was talking about.

When Beverley recites the canonical version of her father's story from 3:07 she does not mention Roswell.

That's true.
 

dimebag2

Active Member
Also, did they really "obsess with the claim that the bodies were explained by USAF dummies"? Or was that merely suggested as a possibility?

They did, if you look at the report from the 90's they spent more time to discuss this than the debris. Found it weird because it had nothing to do with the project Mogul explanation.
 

Gary McH-P

Member
@Rory ‘Isn't Roswell kind of dead and buried? Or at least completely covered already online?’

Roswell stories will never die. As long as there is money to be made from selling a book, they will crop up year after year. A quick scout on Amazon covers many angles of the story In book form. Yes, I meant story.

Just when you thought it was all done and dusted, another one pops up. The latest candidate is from September this year written by a ’veteren detective’. ‘Greg Lawson uses forensic statement analysis and his thousands of hours of training and experience to review the cultural influence, historical context, and eyewitness testimony of those closest involved.’

1639004556738.jpeg
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Yeah, by "dead and buried" I meant like "fully debunked" rather than not being talked about - I didn't word it great (eg, is there really much more metabunk could add? Maybe there is).

They did, if you look at the report from the 90's they spent more time to discuss this than the debris. Found it weird because it had nothing to do with the project Mogul explanation.

Thanks for that. But not before the 90s?

I suppose there were no claims of bodies to refute until not long before then.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
...it basically disappeared from public attention between 1947 and the late 70s when a number of books began to be published which seemed to introduce key elements (such as alien bodies and what they looked like) which 'eyewitnesses' subsequently 'remembered' (though main player and dubious source Jesse Marcel "consistently denied the presence of bodies").
As I was reading about this, my mind went to Nikola Tesla. It took decades for people to forget
many of his nonsense claims...and begin to think that maybe dark forces had actually kept all
his (claimed but never proved) genius inventions from us.

(I do recognize NT's remarkable insight...but I honestly remember him more as a bit of a
salesman / con man. It makes sense to me that Musk named his company after someone so similar.)
 

Gary McH-P

Member
You could argue that for every new angle on a subject, with Roswell having more angles than a book entitled ‘The complete guide to angles’, each new investigation could be reasonably debunked. Or you could just say, ’oh not another Roswell book or You Tube clip, let’s just move on, it’s getting boring now!’ I think I would vote for the latter. The thing is, the whole believers-paranormal community keep talking about this epiphany day where there will be disclosure. Like the government will just say, ‘Ok everyone, hands up, it’s a fair cop, we really did capture aliens at Roswell. Oh! And Santa Claus was with them too’
 

johne1618

Active Member
Remember what Thomas Paine said in The Age of Reason:

Article:
“Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course. But we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time. It is therefore at least millions to one that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie. ”

It seems to me that skeptics will only consider changing their mind if they find the perfect case with evidence that is so strong that it balances their infinitesimal prior probability that a paranormal event could happen.

Why don’t skeptics ever consider the cumulative weight of circumstantial evidence for a particular type of paranormal event?
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
It seems to me that skeptics will only consider changing their mind if they find the perfect case with evidence that is so strong that it balances their infinitesimal prior probability that a paranormal event could happen.

Why don’t skeptics ever consider the cumulative weight of circumstantial evidence for a particular type of paranormal event?
I think most here would be delighted to finally find a real paranormal event...
we've been sorely disappointed so very many times.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "cumulative weight of circumstantial evidence" but it sounds inherently sketchy. Like maybe a whole bunch of bad evidence should somehow add up to good?

I am a big fan of the Paine quote that Mick cited above...but I think more often of the
"Million Dollar Challenge" offered by the James Randi people:
In a nutshell, a huge cash prize was offered for decades to anyone who actually demonstrated
supernatural or paranormal ability. Many "psychics," "mentalists" and the like, loudly & proudly
boasted that it would be easy...that they'd demonstrated supernatural powers hundreds of times!!
And yet the prize was never claimed. Everyone had a chance at it.
Everyone had motivation to prove themselves. And yet it was done zero times.
That, it seems to me, is the most relevant cumulative evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Not thinking Roswell was an alien crash, but I don't understand why the official explanation was so poorly done, despite putting quite some effort in it (1000 pages). It just added fuel to the conspiracy theory.

Yes it'd be nice to have a section on Roswell
Find a PDF of that report, post it in the "Open Discussion" subforum, that should do a lot of what you want.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Why don’t skeptics ever consider the cumulative weight of circumstantial evidence for a particular type of paranormal event?
Article:
The Gish gallop is a rhetorical technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments.


The main problem with your suggestion is that it's one-sided: if we do as you suggest, we need to also include the weight of evidence against a particular type of paranormal event.

Observations in the "low information zone" at the edge of a sensor's capabilities never moved to clear observations as sensors got better, so experience tells us LIZ evidence has no weight.

We know about the unreliability of eyewitnesses, so only phenomena that have been confirmed by many witnesses independently, or that have been recorded, carry weight.

And so forth.
 

dimebag2

Active Member
Find a PDF of that report, post it in the "Open Discussion" subforum, that should do a lot of what you want.
The USAF report is a fun read : https://www.afhra.af.mil/Portals/16/documents/AFD-101201-038.pdf

994 pages of anthropomorphic dummies, technical description of balloon arrays, but not much to answer the witness reports on the weird debris. A strange interview of Sheridan Cavitt too, who was there with Jesse Marcel to see the debris (despite he claimed for years he didn't), that does not fit the Mogul theory if you read carefully. Maybe he was confused after so many years, but if that's the best witness USAF got, well don't expect the conspiracists to calm down.

Anyway, I was expecting to find some clear answers, it left me more confused than before !
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Why don’t skeptics ever consider the cumulative weight of circumstantial evidence for a particular type of paranormal event?
it doesnt help that people, like you, keep reminding us about how flimsy most of the "circumstantial evidence" is for these events.
 

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