Ross Coulthart Shows Patch Claimed of "Reverse Engineering Program at Area 51"

Ann K said:
Historical note: There's a castle in France with a collection of medieval weaponry. It's weird to see several huge trebuchets standing on the battlements. (On a much smaller scale, my son in law built a model with my grandson, and once they got the range adjusted they could hit their target reliably, time after time. Of course they used same sized ammo: got them at the supermarket in cartons of twelve.) The real ones threw stone balls, but could also fling things like rotting animal carcasses, hornets nests, or even the heads of captured prisoners. Something like that could really demoralize the defenders, I'd think!

On the show Northern Exposure, they once built a trebuchet and flung a piano.
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/Junkyard Wars/ a.k.a. /Scrapheap Challenge/ had heavy-object-flinging tasks several times. I remember washing machines, and even cars. Trebuchets were usually the winning solution.
 
Charlie Wiser said:
Patch from NotTelling on the Dreamland forum. His statement:

External Quote:
I worked with these folks and therefore am 110% sure it's nothing to do with "classified UFO retrieval/reverse engineering program".
View attachment 61690
Click to expand...

To be fair, if i worked on a classified UFO retrieval/reverse engineering program.. this is exactly what i would say.
and if i recall that user only showed up on that forum a month or so ago..was that after the alleged AARO meeting?


But at least it proves Lockheedskunk 117 did not manufacture the patch himself. So that's cool.
 
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Charlie Wiser said:
Patch from NotTelling on the Dreamland forum. His statement:



View attachment 61690
Click to expand...

Nice grab Charlie!

As @deirdre pointed out, NotTelling is a relative newcomer to the Dreamland page, but I think it would be hard to be a poser with that group.

As I find Coulthart a bit insufferable, I've not gone back a listened again, but isn't the simplified story something like this:

Coulthart says that:

"Billie says that: he snaped a couple of photos of the patch and a photo of a team wearing them which included his Great Uncle and...

Great Uncle Says that: 'I worked at Area 51 and I saw guys working on an egg shaped UFO' ".

So, the patch is a bit of evidence in an attempt to back up a 3rd hand story. If the patch is from a real EG&G unit that worked at Area 51, then the story must be real. Of course, this is a non-sequitur. The patch could be exactly that and it may even have belonged to Billie's Great Uncle, but it only adds validity to that part of the story, not the 3rd hand UFO part. Or the whole story is BS created around a real patch.

And we still have a completely different story in the description on eBay from 'skunk who implied he was issued the patch because he worked for EG&G at Area 51.

Now if I want to put on my BIG tin-foil CT hat, I might suggest not only are Billie and 'skunk the same person, but so is patch buyer 9***1 and maybe even NotTelling. It's all just a ruse in an attempt to boost the value of a few patches this person ended up with for a future resale. ;)
 
NorCal Dave said:
Coulthart says that:

"Billie says that: he snaped a couple of photos of the patch and a photo of a team wearing them which included his Great Uncle and...

Great Uncle Says that: 'I worked at Area 51 and I saw guys working on an egg shaped UFO' ".
Click to expand...

He didn't say anything about the photo showing people wearing the patch. "He also took a smartphone image of his great uncle's EG&G Engineering Group and their insignia patch" - i.e. two photos were taken. (I surmise this never happened, given he said the patch photo is the one he sent Coulthart yet we know multiple photos were taken within moments of each other.)

Gruncle was told by a senior engineer (shortly before the man retired) that he'd worked on an egg (or bubble)-shaped craft that the CIA brought in, in the 1980s. Gruncle himself only worked on human tech, specifically with the data taken from human tech. He saw a photo of an egg/bubble-shaped craft on the wall of a data storage room and concluded it was the same craft he was told about. All according to Bill.

If Gruncle's story is accurate, this is my theory: the senior engineer came from a need-to-know TS project and was pulling Gruncle's leg as a newbie. Some time later (at least a year later, maybe years later) Gruncle finally mentions it to his colleagues (knowing he wasn't even supposed to have been told in the first place), and his buddies rig up (or dig out) the photo of a radar calibration sphere and hang it where he'll find it. Right now we don't know whether the photo appeared one day, or was always there and that was the first time Gruncle had gone into that particular room. The former seems more likely, since going into data storage rooms was Gruncle's job. So this scenario explains why he suddenly saw (what he thought was) a decade+ old photo for the first time.

It's hard to imagine, however, that an E8 (presumably not a dummy) would be fooled to his dying day, and that he wouldn't come across radar calibration spheres in the course of his work at Area 51 and so realize the photo was fake.
 
Regarding Bill's alleged 45-minute conversation with AARO, this is what Coulthart has said:

they told me that they've given a 45-minute telephone interview to AARO about what they know...

This individual has also interviewed with AARO and has signed and dated an official memorandum of record. And he's also spoken with Tim Burchett as well, the individual... is [Kirkpatrick] aware of this memo? Is he aware of this conversation that this person purports that he's already had with people from AARO?
Click to expand...
Source: Need to Know podcast (Aug 4, 2023)

And this is what Bill tweeted on ~Aug 13:
1692583184748.png


Coulthart does not say he's seen this memo despite moments in his account when he could have verified that he's seen it, yet didn't. Bill had an unconvincing excuse for why he wouldn't show it / tweet it. Did he use the same excuse to not show it to Coulthart? Coulthart is using this (unverified) conversation with AARO not only to bolster Bill's credibility (albeit he admits the alien stuff it's hearsay) but to chide Kirkpatrick for not reading or acting on the info Bill gave, recorded in the memo.
 
Charlie Wiser said:
It's hard to imagine, however, that an E8 (presumably not a dummy) would be fooled to his dying day, and that he wouldn't come across radar calibration spheres in the course of his work at Area 51 and so realize the photo was fake.
Click to expand...
Pretending i dont believe the gr-uncle was dead panning his nephew:

I imagine it was "egg shaped".

i'm thinking either he was thrown by an optical illusion... (i thought the one on the left was "bead" shaped and even searched to see what that shape is for, before realizing it must be an optical illusion as they dint have it for sale anywhere on the site.
The little 2" if the light rows came down a tad further toward us, it would certainly look "egg shaped"
Screenshot 2023-08-20 221339.png



Or since area 51 built different shaped "ships" to test shapes for stealth aircraft design.. maybe there was literally an egg shaped metal ovoid? on base.
below: although why the world needs these (aside from testing shapes for stealth aircraft) I have no idea.

STAINLESS-STEEL-OVAL-SPHERE-1.jpg

1692584526230.png
 
Charlie Wiser said:
And this is what Bill tweeted on ~Aug 13:
View attachment 61723

Coulthart does not say he's seen this memo despite moments in his account when he could have verified that he's seen it, yet didn't. Bill had an unconvincing excuse for why he wouldn't show it / tweet it.
Click to expand...
1692583184748.png

It's sad when the government does a better job releasing information than the folks who clamor for transparency and allege cover-ups.


The question is, do the people he knows know him?
 
Charlie Wiser said:
Gruncle was told by a senior engineer (shortly before the man retired) that he'd worked on an egg (or bubble)-shaped craft that the CIA brought in, in the 1980s. Gruncle himself only worked on human tech, specifically with the data taken from human tech. He saw a photo of an egg/bubble-shaped craft on the wall of a data storage room and concluded it was the same craft he was told about. All according to Bill.
Click to expand...

Yes, I forgot how weak the whole story really is and got busy chasing the patch.

Coulthart says:
Billy says:
Gruncle (was using Charlie's funny abbreviated version of Great Uncle here) says:
Anonymous engineer says: CIA provided egg shaped craft. Maybe alien.

And Coulthart is chiding Kirkpatrick and AARO for "not acting" on this load of rubbish.
 
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NorCal Dave said:
Yes, I forgot how weak the whole story really is and got busy chasing the patch.

Coulthart says:
Billy says:
Gruncle says:
Anonymous engineer says: CIA provided egg shaped craft. Maybe alien.

And Coulthart is chiding Kirkpatrick and AARO for "not acting" on this load of rubbish.
Click to expand...
Yep, they should definitely invite dead gruncle to make a deposition.
Send an armed squad down to the data vaults to see if that picture is still there.
 
NorCal Dave said:
Yes, I forgot how weak the whole story really is and got busy chasing the patch.

Coulthart says:
Billy says:
Gruncle says:
Anonymous engineer says: CIA provided egg shaped craft. Maybe alien.

And Coulthart is chiding Kirkpatrick and AARO for "not acting" on this load of rubbish.
Click to expand...

I had to look up great-uncle. It's the uncle of one's father or mother.
 
Agent K said:
I had to look up great-uncle. It's the uncle of one's father or mother.
Click to expand...
An uncle is a brother [or brother-in-law] of father or mother.
A great-uncle is a brother [or brother-in-law] of grandfather or grandmother.

This works better in languages that use the same word for "great" and "grand".
 
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Agent K said:
An uncle can also be the husband of a parent's sibling.
Click to expand...

Yes, although strickle speaking that's an "uncle-in-law".

I can get really confusing because the word can be tossed around or used as a truncated version of a more specific one. I had a relative that was married to my paternal Grandmother's sister. He was an "uncle-in-law" to my father and a "great uncle-in-law" to me, but that's not how I ever addressed him, it was just "Hey Uncle Arnold, how are you?"

In addition an "Uncle" can be a family friend. I have a friend, Steve, that I've know for years and therefore so do my kids. Now in their mid-20's, they still often refer to him as 'Uncle Steve" even though he isn't in fact their uncle.

In many cultures "Uncle" and the female equivalent "Aunt" can be used as terms of respect or endearment, even if there are no family ties involved.
 
NorCal Dave said:
Yes, although strickle speaking that's an "uncle-in-law".

I can get really confusing because the word can be tossed around or used as a truncated version of a more specific one. I had a relative that was married to my paternal Grandmother's sister. He was an "uncle-in-law" to my father and a "great uncle-in-law" to me, but that's not how I ever addressed him, it was just "Hey Uncle Arnold, how are you?"

In addition an "Uncle" can be a family friend. I have a friend, Steve, that I've know for years and therefore so do my kids. Now in their mid-20's, they still often refer to him as 'Uncle Steve" even though he isn't in fact their uncle.

In many cultures "Uncle" and the female equivalent "Aunt" can be used as terms of respect or endearment, even if there are no family ties involved.
Click to expand...
The uncle is always the crazy UFO conspiracy theorist in the family. :)
That's the trope, as opposed to the conspiracy theorist father and the sane debunker uncle.
 
Hopefully I can be forgiven for adding this entertaining case study in conspiratorial thinking:

In doing research for the Peru thread, I found the Instagram account for USSOCOM, which recently sent the 919 Special Operations Wing to Peru for a training program with the Peruvian military.

It didn't lead to anything related to that thread, but as someone who is sympathetic to certain types of conspiratorial thinking (i.e. real proven/admitted/all-but-proven historical and current events) the unit's real life patch is very amusing considering the claims that have been made re: aliens, jet packs, or jet-pack-aliens:

919 Special Operations Wing

Source: https://www.919sow.afrc.af.mil/About-us/Fact-Sheets/Article/188254/919th-special-operations-wing/ [the unit patch for 919 Special Operations Wing]


Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CvQDmqiOG2E/


TLDR: There's a lot of weird patches out there and I imagine this particular type of sleight of hand from people like Coulthart will continue.
 
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I think we should declare this unsolvable until we have official confirmation. Ross is taking his info as gospel from an unnamed source and members here are taking what members of another forum are saying "to the bank". Neither approach is adequate.
 
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Stryer said:
I think we should declare this unsolvable until we have official confirmation. Ross is taking his info as gospel from an unnamed source and members here are taking what members of another forum are saying "to the bank". Neither approach is adequate.
Click to expand...
Technically it was solved by Coulthart when he actually read from the email vs paraphrasing the story himself, at a recent book tour talk he gave in Australia.
Unfortunately MB has no criteria for OPs or threads anymore, so paraphrased claims of Culthart's paraphrased story were made (hence the thread title)

anyway, the patch is not from a reverse engineering group (re:thread title)
External Quote:

I can actually tell you a little bit more about him he had been working as a data
6:01
configuration specialist at area 51. he collected data from engineering tests
6:07
and was in charge of storing it inside large secure vaults and he had access
6:13
that others didn't have in that regard and he told me that he was part of a
6:18
group of 10 individuals who worked on terrestrial-based technology
6:24
but there were specific groups he alleges within E G and G they are the
6:29
former administrators of Area 51 that did certain things and there was a
6:35
senior EG and G engineer who his relatives spoke with in 1997 who was in
6:42
charge of reverse engineering what his relative told him was non-human
6:47
technology

Source: https://youtu.be/JClRunq-NdI?t=359
 
Stryer said:
I think we should declare this unsolvable until we have official confirmation. Ross is taking his info as gospel from an unnamed source and members here are taking what members of another forum are saying "to the bank". Neither approach is adequate.
Click to expand...
You seem to be under the impression that our information contradicts Coulthart's, but it doesn't. The Dreamland forum confirmed that the alleged great-uncle's alleged patch originates from an EG&G group working at area 51 (and they have a picture of another patch to prove it, plus a plausible explanation for the iconography). That's all Coulthart's source says it is. Coulthart hopes it's the patch of a UFO reverse-engineering unit, but his own source doesn't claim that.

We have doubts on whether the alleged great-uncle exists, as the source seems to say they snapped a picture surreptitiously, but we know several pictures of the very same exemplar (proof: stitching details) with two different backgrounds exist from the source, who has also described it as his own group's patch when listing it for sale.

Coulthart's link to the UFO is third-hand hearsay with zero corroborating evidence. There's nothing to solve in "a friend of a (dead) friend of a friend of mine once worked on a UFO", which is what Coulthart's tale amounts to. Where would you even start?
 
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A lot of UFO journalism often boils down to here's a story with some gaps and because *wink* you know I am a "UFO guy" that means the gaps are are obviously aliens to the readers who are inclined that way.
 
jarlrmai said:
A lot of UFO journalism often boils down to here's a story with some gaps and because *wink* you know I am a "UFO guy" that means the gaps are are obviously aliens to the readers who are inclined that way.
Click to expand...
That would be sad if it didn't also describe Grusch's HOC testimony.
 
Mendel said:
The Dreamland forum confirmed that the alleged great-uncle's alleged patch originates from an EG&G group working at area 51 (and they have a picture of another patch to prove it
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it doesnt actually prove it. The guy with the actual second patch doesnt even confirm it's EG&G or area 51 related.
 
Mendel said:
You seem to be under the impression that our information contradicts Coulthart's, but it doesn't. The Dreamland forum confirmed that the alleged great-uncle's alleged patch originates from an EG&G group working at area 51 (and they have a picture of another patch to prove it, plus a plausible explanation for the iconography). That's all Coulthart's source says it is. Coulthart hopes it's the patch of a UFO reverse-engineering unit, but his own source doesn't claim that.

We have doubts on whether the alleged great-uncle exists, as the source seems to say they snapped a picture surreptitiously, but we know several pictures of the very same exemplar (proof: stitching details) with two different backgrounds exist from the source, who has also described it as his own group's patch when listing it for sale.

Coulthart's link to the UFO is third-hand hearsay with zero corroborating evidence. There's nothing to solve in "a friend of a (dead) friend of a friend of mine once worked on a UFO", which is what Coulthart's tale amounts to. Where would you even start?
Click to expand...
You're missing the point. Ross' someone told me is no better than "someone on a forum confirmed" and vice versa.
 
deirdre said:
Technically it was solved by Coulthart when he actually read from the email vs paraphrasing the story himself, at a recent book tour talk he gave in Australia.
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should note: in Coultharts defense, Lockheed 117 DID advertise it and sell it as a reverse engineering patch, so likely he did use those words to Coulthart at some point. (forgot about the ebay listings)
*and he also sold the autograph as "signed in my prescence" which we proved to be a 100% lie.
1693884157942.png


https://www.ebay.com/sh/research?ma...t=0&limit=50&tabName=SOLD&tz=America/New_York
 
deirdre said:
should note: in Coultharts defense, Lockheed 117 DID advertise it and sell it as a reverse engineering patch, so likely he did use those words to Coulthart at some point. (forgot about the ebay listings)
*and he also sold the autograph as "signed in my prescence" which we proved to be a 100% lie.
View attachment 62265

https://www.ebay.com/sh/research?marketplace=EBAY-US&keywords=EG&G+patch+&dayRange=730&endDate=1692169200000&startDate=1629097200000&categoryId=0&offset=0&limit=50&tabName=SOLD&tz=America/New_York
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Thanks Deidre, fair point. Historically Ross has always been a good journalist. I would like to think he vets his sources.
 
Charlie Wiser said:
This is absolutely untrue, but that's not really an issue for Metabunk.
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I'm sure it is a good issue for Metabunk. I agree to disagree though. I also have to take issue with the the patch advice from Dreamland forum. It's just a forum and I don't think we should take credentials as sacred here. Yes, that includes pilots ect.
 
Stryer said:
I'm sure it is a good issue for Metabunk. I agree to disagree though. I also have to take issue with the the patch advice from Dreamland forum. It's just a forum and I don't think we should take credentials as sacred here. Yes, that includes pilots ect.
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So you don't think it's an EG&G patch from area51, and that it has nothing to do with RCS testing? Why?
 
It's not that I don't. I just lack proof that it comes from that. I'm trying to move us all away from the he said, she said stuff in this field. I think there's a chance, but along with Grusch's testimony, I don't buy it as proof until it is officially confirmed.
 
Mendel said:
I'll take a likely logical uncontradicted explanation in the meantime.
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The point is that picking and choosing who you choose to believe is why ufo believers believe Grusch over Kirkpatrick. I believe Kirkpatrick over Grush too, but that doesnt mean i am not just choosing who to believe without any actual evidence.

The guy (who i dont trust either) who produced a second patch says it was designed and created 4 to 6 years ago. If this is true then it can't be from EG&G. Plus EG&G seems to always provide documentation with the patches it gives out. (not that i care if it's eg&g or JT3/JT4..same difference to me really, but it would speak to the accuracy of memories)
 
deirdre said:
The point is that picking and choosing who you choose to believe is why ufo believers believe Grusch over Kirkpatrick. I believe Kirkpatrick over Grush too, but that doesnt mean i am not just choosing who to believe without any actual evidence.
Click to expand...
Could you further specify what you mean by believing Kirkpatrick over Grusch?
 
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