Poll : Which DOD Navy video do you consider debunked ?

Which DOD Navy video do you consider debunked ?

  • Gimbal

    Votes: 28 68.3%
  • GoFast

    Votes: 34 82.9%
  • FLIR Nimitz

    Votes: 25 61.0%
  • None

    Votes: 7 17.1%

  • Total voters
    41

Scaramanga

Member
There's a difference between a skeptic and a debunker.

A skeptic will simply evaluate a claim against the evidence provided. If the evidence is ambiguous, the claim is not accepted and the object remains unidentified.

A debunker works from a belief system that the claim and the evidence are just 'bunk' and tries to present an alternative claim that fits the evidence. This claim is sometimes called an 'explanation' because a debunker feels a need to educate the general public which is all too gullible and to expose the people who abuse this gullibility. If the evidence to that alternative claim is disputed, however, a debunker tends to get annoyed because their belief system in under attack.

I must say that calling this site 'metabunk' does not do it justice, because the debunkers in UFO history often pushed ridiculous alternative claims that did not even remotely fit the data, and they got away with it because both the press and scientists did not bother to check.
At least this site does a better job of checking their alternative claims against the data. Sometimes an old-school debunker pops up in the discussions with an outlandish claim and he is treated with healthy criticism by Mick as well, which is refreshing.

The data is there, for instance on http://www.nicap.org/onlinebooks.htm. Or read the French Cometa report, English translation available at https://www.narcap.de/dokumente/COMETA-Report-englisch.pdf

But you know what they say about bringing a horse to the water...

No, there's really no difference whatever between a skeptic and a debunker. Both take the scientific and logical position that the burden of proof is 100% on the person making a claim of something out of the ordinary. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A skeptic isn't simply a 'disbeliever' or someone neutral...a skeptic is someone who says 'where is the actual evidence for your claim ?' and who looks for alternative explanations just as much as any debunker would do. ALL claims are 'bunk' by default unless sufficient evidence exists. That is how science works.
 

jhunsley

New Member
All have been debunked. None of them show anything remotely close to the bar as evidence of something which is not of this world.
We'll never know what exactly the FLIR and Gimbal video are because there is not enough information to identify them exactly. They are most likely other aircraft in the distance.
 
I honestly grew more skeptical after diving into the rabbit hole that any of these videos have been credibly debunked. GoFAST at best, but still it does not explain what the cold object actually is.
 

Ulrich

New Member
All have been debunked. None of them show anything remotely close to the bar as evidence of something which is not of this world.
We'll never know what exactly the FLIR and Gimbal video are because there is not enough information to identify them exactly. They are most likely other aircraft in the distance.
Maybe we will know some details in the future. Technical suppliers could solve the mystery about the glare- or object-rotation in the gimbal Video for example.
 

Occam’sLawyer

New Member
None have been debunked. There is no clear explanation as to what any of them are. They cannot be proven to be UFOs, and they cannot be proven to be birds, plastic bags, balloons, planes, or glitches.
 
None have been debunked. There is no clear explanation as to what any of them are. They cannot be proven to be UFOs, and they cannot be proven to be birds, plastic bags, balloons, planes, or glitches.
I have been listening to the audiobook of Ross Coulthart's "In Plain Sight" and he describes several occasions of UAPs being reported to make 45° degree rotations and then zipping off. Not saying this gives the Gimbal video much more credibility, but certainly, it fits in line with previously occurring sightings. And it certainly made me much more open to the idea that what is in the video is not just rotating glare.
.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
None have been debunked. There is no clear explanation as to what any of them are. They cannot be proven to be UFOs, and they cannot be proven to be birds, plastic bags, balloons, planes, or glitches.

What is debunked is the claims about the videos.

Go Fast is claimed to be low and fast, it is actually high and slow.
FLIR1 is supposed to show extraordinary acceleration, what it actually shows is a loss of tracking and a zoom which creates this effect.
Gimbal has other rotations of artefacts at the same time the object appears to rotate, indicating the rotation is a property of the camera system and not the object.

We don't have to identify something 100% to debunk the claims made about a video.
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
Gimbal has other rotations of artefacts at the same time the object appears to rotate, indicating the rotation is a property of the camera system and not the object.
Don't forget the camera bumps synchronous with the rotations.

When the claim is, "this video shows A about the object B, therefore B must be a UFO", we don't need to disprove that B is a UFO; we merely need to prove that the video doesn't show A.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
What is debunked is the claims about the videos.

Go Fast is claimed to be low and fast, it is actually high and slow.

We don't have to identify something 100% to debunk the claims made about a video.

But the poll was asking about a conventional explanation, not about debunking claims about the video.

I though I would create a poll to check what is the general opinion on this. From the three DOD Navy videos (Gimbal, GoFast, Nimitz), select the ones that you consider as debunked.

By debunked, I mean do you think there is a solid conventional, earthly, explanation for the footage ?
(I'm not talking about debunking aspects of the videos that have been pushed to the public, i.e. GoFast being close to the water)
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
But the poll was asking about a conventional explanation, not about debunking claims about the video.
Yeah, but in that case, the poll sets a bad expectation.
You can't expect a 100% identification from a bunch of blurry pixels with unknown location and time, because there's simply not enough information to narrow it down from the dozens of perfectly normal explanations it could be. And that's even before we consider that the UAPs may have been military and we don't have public info on them to match them to a time and place. (If we had, the videos might not have gone public.)

So if you're asking for "debunked" in your question and then switch goalposts to say you really mean "identified" as if that was the same thing, you're setting a misleading expectation; and insisting that "debunked" means "debunked" no matter what the fine print says is a good stance to take.
 

Leonardo Cuellar

Active Member
I have been listening to the audiobook of Ross Coulthart's "In Plain Sight" and he describes several occasions of UAPs being reported to make 45° degree rotations and then zipping off. Not saying this gives the Gimbal video much more credibility, but certainly, it fits in line with previously occurring sightings. And it certainly made me much more open to the idea that what is in the video is not just rotating glare.
.
Certainly not. But it reinforces the hypothesis that that movement is physically possible and therefore it is useless to debunk the movement by proposing implausible derotations or camera bumps.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
But it reinforces the hypothesis that that movement is physically possible
How? If we have data (aka a video) of such observations that do not show object rotation ot acceleration, then the obvious conclusion is that the similar reported observations have the same cause.It's certainly better supported to assume a cause that we have evidence for than to suppose a cause with no tangible evidence.


implausible derotations or camera bumps
They're not implausible, and the camera bumps are very obvious in the stabilized footage-
See e.g. the video in this post: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/fl...-refute-micks-claims.11933/page-2#post-255387
 

Leonardo Cuellar

Active Member
How? If we have data (aka a video) of such observations that do not show object rotation ot acceleration, then the obvious conclusion is that the similar reported observations have the same cause.It's certainly better supported to assume a cause that we have evidence for than to suppose a cause with no tangible evidence.
I am very curious about all these testimonies, how many were made by an ATFLIR, observing the IR imprint of the exhaust gas and during the derotation phase. In your opinion?

They're not implausible, and the camera bumps are very obvious in the stabilized footage-
See e.g. the video in this post: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/fl...-refute-micks-claims.11933/page-2#post-255387

I've already voiced my doubts about bumps and derotation in that thread.
 
You don't understand what debunked means.
Of course, it means choosing your own adventure and fitting the facts to your beliefs.

Certainly not. But it reinforces the hypothesis that that movement is physically possible and therefore it is useless to debunk the movement by proposing implausible derotations or camera bumps.
Though, these sightings were as far as I recall not by fighter or civilian pilots. But instead from witnesses on the ground. I think what gives the Navy sightings more credibility is that allegedly corroborating data from additional sensor systems exist.

But is difficult to verify. And one should keep in mind that large organizations such as the Pentagon act mostly on grounds of plausible deniability. So any disclosed evidence is deliberately kept in an ambiguous quality such that one has the option to denounce it at any given future point of time.
 
Last edited:

JMartJr

Senior Member
In the case of GOFAST, it doesn't mean to "explain what the cold object actually is."
Similarly, it does not mean that for the other two! Gofast, it was claimed, was moving inexplicably fast. Flir1/Nimitz, it was claimed, made sudden impossible acceleration. Gimbal, it was claimed, executes an inexplicable weird rotation. But, as they say in football, "upon further review" there are plausible explanations for what is shown in each video that do not require extraordinary hypotheses: cameras rotate, or stop tracking, objects are higher than assumed so that parallax kicks in... and without being able to say "the videos show something that cannot be explained conventionally," there is nothing about the videos that is all that interesting.
 

dimebag2

Active Member
Well these videos are interesting because they come from the military, with testimonies/stories by military personnel (Nimitz for FLIR, all the recent talk of fighter pilots seeing UFOs routinely for GoFast/Gimbal).

Whatever you believe is behind them (UFO/pilot errors/government disinformation) has interesting implications that makes them interesting (I think).
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
interesting implications that makes them interesting
Sensors operated at the edge of their usefulness and beyond makes for blurry pictures straight from the "low information zone"; that's about as interesting as blurry photographs of Bigfoot.

Sure, it's interesting to think about that in a sense if you like fiction and drama (or debunking!), but it's thoroughly uninteresting if you want to learn about the real world.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Well these videos are interesting because they come from the military...
After reading multiple prosaic explanations that are considerably more plausible than "unknown technology" claims...I can't say that I find any of these "interesting" at this point. The "military" angle you refer to may've made me give them a little more consideration than they deserved..but no, still not interesting...
 

taurusclover21

New Member
Well these videos are interesting because they come from the military, with testimonies/stories by military personnel (Nimitz for FLIR, all the recent talk of fighter pilots seeing UFOs routinely for GoFast/Gimbal).

Whatever you believe is behind them (UFO/pilot errors/government disinformation) has interesting implications that makes them interesting (I think).
I'm not interested in what's imagined to be "behind them," but only what they actually represent - which so far is nothing extraordinary.
 

Woolery

Member
I'm not interested in what's imagined to be "behind them," but only what they actually represent - which so far is nothing extraordinary.
Why do you disagree, Woolery?
Though there’s no reason to think the videos represent space ships, I don’t think you can make the claim to know “what they actually represent,” anymore than the misguided folks who claim the videos represent something supernatural.

The reason these videos (and many others) receive the attention they do is due to their overwhelming ambiguity. Most UFO videos are so indistinct it’s impossible to know exactly what they actually represent and thus lead to rampant speculation.

(FYI- I saw your question due to Mendel’s tagging my name in his reply.)
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
Though there’s no reason to think the videos represent space ships, I don’t think you can make the claim to know “what they actually represent,” anymore than the misguided folks who claim the videos represent something supernatural.

The reason these videos (and many others) receive the attention they do is due to their overwhelming ambiguity. Most UFO videos are so indistinct it’s impossible to know exactly what they actually represent and thus lead to rampant speculation.

(FYI- I saw your question due to Mendel’s tagging my name in his reply.)

So you do agree they represent nothing extraordinary then?
 

Woolery

Member
So you do agree they represent nothing extraordinary then?
No. I said there’s no reason to think they represent something extraordinary. Can’t you see a difference there? (If you genuinely can’t, let me know and I’ll illustrate it in a follow up post or PM)

My first guess wouldn’t be space ships. But from what I can tell there’s not enough data to know for certain what they represent, and the poster I replied to stated he wasn’t interested in what the objects in the videos were “imagined” to be.
 
Last edited:

jarlrmai

Senior Member
No. I said there’s no reason to think they represent something extraordinary. Can’t you see a difference there? (If you genuinely can’t, let me know and I’ll illustrate it in a follow up post or PM)

My first guess wouldn’t be space ships. But from what I can tell there’s not enough data to know for certain what they represent, and the poster I replied to stated he wasn’t interested in what the objects in the videos were “imagined” to be.

Okay I think I get your minor semantic difference, but do you agree we are being asked by some parties to conclude that they do represent something extraordinary?
 

Woolery

Member
Okay I think I get your minor semantic difference, but do you agree we are being asked by some parties to conclude that they do represent something extraordinary?

You flag my point as minor and semantic after you erroneously flag me for contradicting myself.

And I think everyone on earth (believers and skeptics alike) answers your question the same way. I credit you with the sense to know this already. Respectfully, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time arguing with you any longer, whether it’s in bad faith or over minor and semantic differences.
 

taurusclover21

New Member
Though there’s no reason to think the videos represent space ships, I don’t think you can make the claim to know “what they actually represent,” anymore than the misguided folks who claim the videos represent something supernatural.

The reason these videos (and many others) receive the attention they do is due to their overwhelming ambiguity. Most UFO videos are so indistinct it’s impossible to know exactly what they actually represent and thus lead to rampant speculation.

(FYI- I saw your question due to Mendel’s tagging my name in his reply.)

I didn't make any claim to know what these videos actually represent.

The reason these videos (and many others) receive the attention they do is that "UFOlogists" represent them to be something they imagine.
 

Woolery

Member
I didn't make any claim to know what these videos actually represent.

I must have misunderstood then. I took you saying:

taurusclover21 said:
I'm not interested in what's imagined to be "behind them," but only what they actually represent - which so far is nothing extraordinary.

as meaning they (the videos) actually represent nothing extraordinary. It seemed to me you were making a statement about “what they actually represent.”

If you’re instead saying you don’t know what they actually represent then I’m in full agreement with you. Sorry for any confusion.
 

Woolery

Member
The reason these videos (and many others) receive the attention they do is that "UFOlogists" represent them to be something they imagine.
I would disagree slightly here. I’d say the attention the FLIR videos received was unusual and due largely to the New York Times article that detailed their context (without overtly asserting what the author “imagined” them to be), and the DoD confirming the origins of the footage but saying flatly that they didn’t know what the videos represented. This combination raised the profile of these videos far higher than the typical UFO images shared by “UFOlogists” over the decades.
 

taurusclover21

New Member
I must have misunderstood then. I took you saying:

taurusclover21 said:
I'm not interested in what's imagined to be "behind them," but only what they actually represent - which so far is nothing extraordinary.

as meaning they (the videos) actually represent nothing extraordinary. It seemed to me you were making a statement about “what they actually represent.”

If you’re instead saying you don’t know what they actually represent then I’m in full agreement with you. Sorry for any confusion.
A blurry image of something, even something unidentified, is not extraordinary.
 

taurusclover21

New Member
I would disagree slightly here. I’d say the attention the FLIR videos received was unusual and due largely to the New York Times article that detailed their context (without overtly asserting what the author “imagined” them to be), and the DoD confirming the origins of the footage but saying flatly that they didn’t know what the videos represented. This combination raised the profile of these videos far higher than the typical UFO images shared by “UFOlogists” over the decades.
The only reason FLIR received so much attention is that it was leaked as evidence of an ET.
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Mendel Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon And Other Conspiracy Theories General Discussion 13
Mick West Debunked: Video of Poll Worker "Filling In" Ballots. Election 2020 3
D How do you think about debunking? General Discussion 29
Oxymoron Poll: Should the U.S Attack Syria? General Discussion 51
Rroval Man Claims Mars Space Station Discovered On Google Mars (VIDEO, POLL) UFOs and Aliens 2
SR1419 New Poll: Conspiracy Beliefs Fall Along Party Lines General Discussion 0
Mick West Conspiracy Theory Poll Results Shows Party/Age/Race Splits on Chemtrails, etc. Contrails and Chemtrails 21
Clock Poll: Do you think that threads should be closed after being debunked? Site Feedback & News 6
George B Poll . . .What makes people who believe in the Chemtrail conspiracy tick. . ?. . Choo Contrails and Chemtrails 76
banditsat12oclock US Navy "UFO" patent by Salvatore Cezar Pais UFOs and Aliens 8
M FLIR Technician Discusses Navy videos and claims to refute Mick's claims UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 300
LorentzHall White Flying Object Over US Navy base in Japan (July 2021) Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 14
Mick West Corbell: "Unidentified glowing objects near US Navy ship" [Planes or drones?] UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 17
Agent K Why all the UFO reports from the Navy, and not the Air Force? UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 13
bird_up "Gimbal UFO video rendered in 3D" by Abominati0n UFOs and Aliens 5
Mick West The Evolution of Official DoD/Pentagon Statements Regarding The Navy UFO Videos and UAP Investigations UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 6
Mick West Explained: New Navy UFO Videos UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 210
Mick West Are the Navy UFOs "Real," or just in the Low Information Zone? UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 31
Mick West Why Michio Kaku is wrong about the UFO Burden of Proof & Navy Videos UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 38
Getoffthisplanet Flir1, Go Fast, Gimbal - Navy Releases New Information: Official Dates UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 9
Getoffthisplanet Navy spokesman Gradisher's definition of UAP UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 12
Mick West Cube in a Sphere UFO's Seen by Navy pilots. Radar Targets? UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 17
Mick West NYT: GIMBAL Video of U.S. Navy Jet Encounter with Unknown Object UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 814
Mick West Explained: Chilean Navy "UFO" video - Aerodynamic Contrails, Flight IB6830 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 186
MikeG Claim: Secret Navy Electromagnetic Warfare Training Conspiracy Theories 0
TEEJ Contrails during Russian Navy Cruise Missile Strike in Syria, 2015 Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Mick West Debunked: Leaked US Navy Map, New Madrid, Submerged US General Discussion 40
Gary Cook Debunked: 'Gun used in Navy Yard shooting was an assault rifle.' General Discussion 8
Alhazred The Sane Alex Jones & the Navy Yard Shootings Conspiracy Theories 1
Mick West Washington Navy Yard Shootings - False Flag Conspiracy Theories? Conspiracy Theories 73
FreiZeitGeist HAARP-Website offline (Navy renegotiating management contract) HAARP 28
dizzle Boston: Navy Seals Boston Marathon Bombings 28
Cairenn US Navy map of US General Discussion 13
J Poltergeist activity caught on video? Ghosts, Monsters, and the Paranormal 15
Rory Claim: Pfizer sponsors many mainstream TV shows (with the implication being that can lead to bad things) Coronavirus COVID-19 68
Leonardo Cuellar Could The Gimbal Video Show an Atlas V Launch? UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 323
S Did NIST edit WTC building 7 footage? 9/11 4
N Explained: "Jellyfish object" video in Russia [Rocket Launch] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 11
F Example of a Boeing 737 "Tic Tac" (video) UFOs and Aliens 9
ki_cz Need help debunking FE video Flat Earth 42
R Video of UFOs around/on the sun - Sunspots and a Bird UFOs and Aliens 15
LorentzHall Elizondo Claims DoD Have A 50-Feet-Away Photo & 23 Minute Video UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 30
R Explained: Video of Vandenberg UFO shooting down ICBM [reenactment] UFOs and Aliens 8
Vara La Fey Video of all FAA mandated aircraft lights? Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 7
V Needs debunking: flat earthers claim this reflection to show a harness in ISS video Flat Earth 10
M Any explanation for this UFO video? UFOs and Aliens 6
V Gimbal Video Interactive Software/Program UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 16
S Does this video footage show a dragon (sea serpent) attacking a manatee? [No] Ghosts, Monsters, and the Paranormal 4
A USS Omaha UFO / UAP Radar Video UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 257
CeruleanBlu Video summary of Independent Forensic Team Report on Oroville Dam Oroville Dam 2
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top