Perpetuum, a perpetual motion manifestoy thingy

ThorGoLucky

Member
I got mail, presumably in response to the Free Energy and Perpetual Motion section in Debunkatron. It's the typical rambling arrogant crap from a crank, but thought I'd post it here for entertainment purposes.

Dear Sir;
I sense you must be bored. Here is somethin' that will make your day.
www.oldrichnos.com
section "perpetuum". PDF file BOOK 3, if you want to skip the rhetorics.
Regards,
Oldrich

My reply: "Get back to be when you sustainably generate more energy than you put in, and that it's independently verified."
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Anyone who is convinced that the overbalancing wheel will work is not going to make much progress.

The overbalancing wheel is a kind of metal illusion. It seems kind of like it will work. But unfortunately it simply does not. It one of those subjects that is just beyond the comprehension of the average person, and yet they don't realize it.

We would all do well to remember that we are no so smart.

http://youarenotsosmart.com/
 

ThorGoLucky

Member
Low friction and eking out some energy from the magnets. I think I heard it from one of the SGU episodes. But of course, the magnets would need to be periodically re-magnetized, thus losing any energy gain.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Do you have a link to something that explains how energy is extracted from a permanent magnet? How much energy is in there? I'm somewhat unconvinced.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Just found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet

The tetragonal Nd2​Fe14​B crystal structure has exceptionally high uniaxial magnetocrystalline anisotropy (HA~7 teslas). This gives the compound the potential to have high coercivity(i.e., resistance to being demagnetized). The compound also has a high saturation magnetization (Js​ ~1.6 T or 16 kG) and typically 1.3 tesla. Therefore, as the maximum energy density is proportional to Js​2​, this magnetic phase has the potential for storing large amounts of magnetic energy (BHmax​ ~ 512 kJ/m3​ or 64 MG·Oe),

One AA Alkaline battery contains around 10,000 Joules, a 1 cc neo magnet could store 512000/1000000 = 0.5 J.

Does not seem like a useful energy density. But I admit I'm not really following the physics

And another less formal reference:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/latest-questions/question/1809/

The amount of energy in a typical bar magnet you might have on your fridge is not usually very much, just a few joules. This would be theoretically enough to run a 100W lightbulb for maybe a tenth or a hundredth of a second or so

And a more formal one:

http://www.femm.info/wiki/PMEnergy

The calculation of the energy stored in a permanent magnet is, perhaps surprisingly, something of a contentious topic. Contemporary works take multiple approaches to this issue
 

ThorGoLucky

Member
Oh I love the idea of an infinitely rechargeable "battery" that won't corrode. And we could pass them down the generations with other heirlooms.

"Here son, your great great great granma used this in her vibrator."
"Gee, thanks."
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That double cone one is not exactly fake, but not perpetual either. It's a different type of thing.



It's quite fascinating how much effort people put into things that are impossible. I remember as a young man spending quite a bit of time myself trying to trisect an angle, even after I'd read it had been proved to be impossible.

My problem was that I did not understand the proof of impossibility.
 
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PCWilliams

Senior Member.
That double cone one is not exactly fake, but not perpetual either. It's a different type of thing.



It's quite fascinating how much effort people put into things that are impossible. I remember as a young man spending quite a bit of time myself trying to trisect an angle, even after I'd read it had been proved to be impossible.

My problem was that I did not understand the proof of impossibility.

The double cone works because the rails get wider towards the end, moving the rails towards the smaller circumference of the cone, increasing (or maintaining) rotation speed?

I was thinking this could have been on a tilted table and they just tilted the camera to match the table angle. I'm a video editing guy ... i think this way.:cool:
 
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PCWilliams

Senior Member.
After reading that blog, http://youarenotsosmart.com/ I'm not sure what I know anymore, or what I think I know, or what I think I thought I knew. The bottom line is that I recognize some of those behaviours in myself... and it's left me a little uncomfortable.

If you'd like, i can recommend some books that will completely upset your applecart! LOL! When you read how free will is a perception created by the brain. Our decisions are actually created in our brains prior to us becoming aware of them. :confused:
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
belated post....

Yes, the section on priming is very interesting.
....but so simple. I now walk around observing how I may be primed, or how to prime others....like in a job interview.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
If you'd like, i can recommend some books that will completely upset your applecart! LOL! When you read how free will is a perception created by the brain. Our decisions are actually created in our brains prior to us becoming aware of them. :confused:

could i take you up on that offer? i find this sort of thing really enlightening - the more i realise how little 'i' know or am in control of, the more free i feel. and it seems to solve the old 'little controller inside my head' feeling which we attribute as being 'the real me'. now i know there is no such thing, and it's quite liberating.

in regards to that video of perpetual motion machines, was it openly faked, or passed off as real, and where does it explain or prove the fakery?
they are beautiful constructions, i'd love to take it up as a hobby.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
They were openly faked. They make models from old plans to demonstrate why they don't work (unless you turn on the hidden motor)

http://www.veproject1.org/vepprograms.htm
The term perpetual motion, taken literally, refers to movement that goes on forever. However, perpetual motion usually refers to a device or system that delivers more energy than was put into it. Such a device or system would be in violation of the law of Conservation of Energy, which states that energy can never be created or destroyed, and is therefore deemed impossible by the laws of physics. Our working models assist us to better explain the impossibility of Perpetual Motion. It's excellent tool to discuss first and second Laws of Thermodynamics, Hydrostatic equilibrium Law, Law of Gravity, efficiency, friction,
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
could i take you up on that offer? i find this sort of thing really enlightening - the more i realise how little 'i' know or am in control of, the more free i feel. and it seems to solve the old 'little controller inside my head' feeling which we attribute as being 'the real me'. now i know there is no such thing, and it's quite liberating.

in regards to that video of perpetual motion machines, was it openly faked, or passed off as real, and where does it explain or prove the fakery?
they are beautiful constructions, i'd love to take it up as a hobby.

This is what i've read the last few months:

View attachment 349

"In Search of The Light" by Susan Blackmore was excellent reading on this topic. She touches on free will here http://tinyurl.com/dj97e4 and in this video: http://tinyurl.com/7aynh44.

The "Full Facts book of Cold Reading" is considered the bible on how cold reading is done and, i swear, you will NEVER see psychics the same way again. It will change your view of psychics forever.

"Paranormality" looks at why paranormal experiences are actually normal experiences produced by the brain.

"Sleights Of Mind" is written by two neuroscientists and explains why magic works; how easily and reliably the human brain can be tricked.

All these books are great reads. I recommend them all.
 

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