Orgonite and Ion Meters

[magiktcup]

Anyone familiar with orgonite and orgone theory? More specifically orgonite itself.
There seems little i can fined on this subject that goes into much detail and any help with looking into orgonite would be appreciated.

Orgonite is a device that apparently harness/generate "Orgone energy" a mystical universal energy/life force discovered by a Wilhelm Reich. I dont want to get into the history too much , i wanted to talk about a modern incarnation of his theory.

Orgonite.

Orgonite appears to be made of epoxy resin or fibreglass mixed in with various metal shavings/balls to a roughly;y 50/50 ratio.
They come in various shapes and sizes with a pyramid shape being quite popular
Which is understandable given the crowed they are sold to.
There are many claims made about this
such as it purifies the atmosphere around it, as well as stopping "EMF", making plants grow better, stops chemtrails, gives off good energy, make ice freeze upwards, if you place them of ley lines there power is boosted, and so on .


But there is a specific thing i want to address here.

When you place an ion meter near an orgonite pyramid it reads ions.
People claim that this is an ion/orgone generator and that the ions "generated" are a result of orgone energy.
according to the supporters it turns positive ions which are claimed to be "bad" into "negative" ions which are "good" for you.

I did find some papers from probably about 30 years ago that did actually say something about positive/negative ions and their relationship on plant growth. Which gives credence to the good/ bad ion claim.
But i diddnt find much after that.

But i was hoping on finding out why we see a reading from a ion meter when we place it near orgonite?

I doubt it is "generating" anything. but an aid into looking at this would be appreciated

 

[Mick West]

But i was hoping on finding out why we see a reading from a ion meter when we place it near orgonite?

Either:

A) Something else near it (like a computer) is creating the reading
or
B) Static electricity from friction.

Is there a specific test you've seen? There's a couple on YouTube, not nothing that looks significant.

 

[Jason]

Anyone familiar with orgonite and orgone theory? More specifically orgonite itself.
There seems little i can fined on this subject that goes into much detail and any help with looking into orgonite would be appreciated.

Orgonite is a device that apparently harness/generate "Orgone energy" a mystical universal energy/life force discovered by a Wilhelm Reich. I dont want to get into the history too much , i wanted to talk about a modern incarnation of his theory.

Orgonite.

Orgonite appears to be made of epoxy resin or fibreglass mixed in with various metal shavings/balls to a roughly;y 50/50 ratio.
They come in various shapes and sizes with a pyramid shape being quite popular
Which is understandable given the crowed they are sold to.
There are many claims made about this
such as it purifies the atmosphere around it, as well as stopping "EMF", making plants grow better, stops chemtrails, gives off good energy, make ice freeze upwards, if you place them of ley lines there power is boosted, and so on .


But there is a specific thing i want to address here.

When you place an ion meter near an orgonite pyramid it reads ions.
People claim that this is an ion/orgone generator and that the ions "generated" are a result of orgone energy.
according to the supporters it turns positive ions which are claimed to be "bad" into "negative" ions which are "good" for you.

I did find some papers from probably about 30 years ago that did actually say something about positive/negative ions and their relationship on plant growth. Which gives credence to the good/ bad ion claim.
But i diddnt find much after that.

But i was hoping on finding out why we see a reading from a ion meter when we place it near orgonite?

I doubt it is "generating" anything. but an aid into looking at this would be appreciated

Maybe it has something to do with the metal shavings that are in the 50/50 mix. If the metal shaving have a magnetic property maybe this could cause the pyramid to read ions. Ions usually are only found on earth in the form of fire, lightning, plasmas (lab environment), and electrical sparks.

 

[magiktcup]

I don't think it is something else like a computer. There are a number of ion orgonite videos of people repeatedly placing ion meters on and off orgonite and with the reading going up and down.
Yes they could have a magnetic property, will that effect the ion count?
My best guess is that we are reading the ions already present in the metal. Im not very knowledgeable when it comes to ions ive have to give myself a crash course of this subject.

I have a few videos which ill link below as a general example. Once you have seen a few you have seen them all to be honest.

This is a girl testing her hello kitty shaped orgonite with a meter:




Here is another one he shows it about 2 min into the video. I would say you watch the whole video its not needed it just an interesting video, orgonite is mixed up with a lot of other psudo-science and conspiracy theory's. When researching this you hear a lot about auras, chakras,chi,Schumen resonence, chemtrails, haarp, healing crystals, general metaphysical hippy ideas about universal energy and so on. But im sure you already knew that.





Is there a better way of posting a youtube link or am i doing it wrong?


Anyway let me know what you think.

 

[WeedWhacker]

I really think that the concept of "orgone energy" is complete bunk. Sorry.

This might be relevant reading:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236287

It really boils down to this basic fact: IF "orgone" were real, then it would be in many scientific papers, and be widely accepted as a fact.

 

[magiktcup]

I know its bunk! However in a normal scenario i can generally debunk a subject from the comfort of my armchair, researching the subject on the internet without getting hands on. The orgone energy theory is laughable and and debunks itself through its own lack of evidence. However im trying to find an explanation to a specific claim they are making.
I diddnt want this to be a general discussion on orgone energy as a whole.

Im trying to find a non supernatural explanation for us reading ions from orgonite. As the current claims boils down to ion=orgone energy or the these ions are proof orgone energy is working its magic.

 

[magiktcup]

Will we read ions from, say for example, copper and resin on there own? Because if we did then it will come as no surprise orgonite made of a 50/50 mix of copper shaving and resin will read ions?

 

[WeedWhacker]

I know its bunk! However in a normal scenario i can generally debunk a subject from the comfort of my armchair, researching the subject on the internet without getting hands on. The orgone energy theory is laughable and and debunks itself through its own lack of evidence. However im trying to find an explanation to a specific claim they are making.

Ah. Got it. In time some of our other resident experts may no doubt chime in, and assist with some solid science.

 

[magiktcup]

Sweet. Science the shit out of it.

 

[Pete Tar]

In time some of our other resident experts may no doubt chime in, and assist with some solid science.

Perhaps I can contribute something with my five minute google education on the matter.

Tourmaline is something that naturally emits negative ions, but is not present in the formula for orgone, so probably rules that out.

Basic orgonite is simply fiberglass resin, metal shavings and a quartz crystal, cured in any mold you like.
...
The resin in orgonite shrinks during the curing process, permanently squeezing the quartz crystal inside which creates a well-known piezoelectric effect inside the crystal, meaning its end-points become polarized electrically. It is believed this is also what causes the orgonite to function so effectively as a positive energy generator.

So does the piezoeletric action produce negative ions?

By the way, science has proved orgone energy exists, they just don't realise it and called it something else.

Following in their footsteps, thousands of Ph.D.-level researchers from both sides of the Iron Curtain spanning multiple generations have continued Kozyrev and Reich's pioneering work, slowly forcing mainstream Western science to finally, "officially recognize" the concept of a universal, unseen energy medium they call "dark matter," "vacuum flux" or "zero-point energy," depending on who you ask. It is commonly understood among orgonite enthusiasts that these are all essentially describing the same thing, which Reich called "orgone".

http://www.orgonite.info/what-is-orgonite.html

 

[magiktcup]

"By the way, science has proved orgone energy exists, they just don't realise it and called it something else."............

 

[magiktcup]

Im aware if that site and thank you for that contribution. Science has not proved orgone energy exists and the whole point of this thread was to address specifically ions and orgonite.

For the sake of simplicity forget orgone energy.

i want to address the ion claim. People say orgonite is an ion generator or accumulator and that it turn ions in the air around it into negative ions which have multiple supposed health benefits.

 

[Pete Tar]

............

Dry humour.
Maybe I should buy a chunk of it from the local chemtrailer at the markets and do some experiments with plants, apparently they like it.

What are the proven effects of negative ion generators?

edit.
They keep dust down.

Negative ion generators use high voltage to add an electron to particles in the air. Electrostatic attraction then causes those particles to move toward, and bind to, a grounded surface such as a wall. Thus, an ionizer can help to reduce the amount of dust particles, allergens, and other particles from the air in a room.

Edit.
And perhaps some other stuff.

Chronic non-seasonal depression has also been shown to be improved with negative ion therapy. High density ion therapy was far more effective than low density ion therapy.

Negative ions (along with bright light and auditory stimuli) reduced subjective measurements of depression, improved mood, and reduced anger in both depressed and non-depressed college students.

In a study on the salivary responses of people completing a 40-minute word processing task on the computer, exposure to negative air ions reduced the rise in salivary chromogranin A-like immunoreactivity (a marker of stress and anxiety) and improved performance.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/negative-ions-health/

That's vague enough to be the claimed effect of orgonite.

 

[magiktcup]

Im all up for tearing apart orgone energy and finding its flaws. I dont mind buying orgonit or making chembusters/ cloudbusters or buying ion readers. Its interesting and i like to experiment. To be honest the reason im looking at this is my freind currently has one and is using it in his greenhouse. Im skeptical of the benefits obviously.

"What are the proven effects of negative ion generators?" the information is not exactly abundant i did find some old papers that seemed to support the previous claims but not much. Im currently not on my personal pc and cannot acces my bookmarks however i will find them and post them for you.

I am still interested in ionized air and effects on plant growth as i do enjoy growing various fruit and veg.

But it consider it more of a secondary claim atm. I would prefer to know the ion orgonite situation in regards to whee it comes from

 

[cloudspotter]

B) Static electricity from friction.

Could that be from the resin?

 

[Pete Tar]

I think there may be a connection to the possible piezoeletric action of orgonite.
http://www.whystudymaterials.ac.uk/casestudies/piezo.asp
Tourmaline is sold as a negative ion product, and it is piezoelectric.
http://www.n-ion.com/e/what-tourmaline-04.html

 

[magiktcup]

Could be. I forgot to mention that occasionally an crystal is included into the mix.

 

[jonnyH]

Seems likely the confluence of carpet and non-conductive polymer Hello Kittys is going to generate some static.

 

[Trailspotter]

I don't think it is something else like a computer. There are a number of ion orgonite videos of people repeatedly placing ion meters on and off orgonite and with the reading going up and down.
Yes they could have a magnetic property, will that effect the ion count?
My best guess is that we are reading the ions already present in the metal. Im not very knowledgeable when it comes to ions ive have to give myself a crash course of this subject.

I have a few videos which ill link below as a general example. Once you have seen a few you have seen them all to be honest.

This is a girl testing her hello kitty shaped orgonite with a meter:




Here is another one he shows it about 2 min into the video. I would say you watch the whole video its not needed it just an interesting video, orgonite is mixed up with a lot of other psudo-science and conspiracy theory's. When researching this you hear a lot about auras, chakras,chi,Schumen resonence, chemtrails, haarp, healing crystals, general metaphysical hippy ideas about universal energy and so on. But im sure you already knew that.





Is there a better way of posting a youtube link or am i doing it wrong?


Anyway let me know what you think.

I've looked into these videos. In both cases they use the same gadget to measure 'ions', KT401P Air Ion Tester, $50 a piece. I could not find a description of how does it work or what actually does it measure, or an 'official' manual for it. However, I've noted that the guy in the second video was wearing rubber gloves, whereas the girl in the first one did not.

Anyway, ions do not drift freely in the air but tend to stick to various surfaces, e.g., dust particles, therefore the measuring actual ions in the air requires more sophisticated instruments. The tester in the videos is probably measuring the discharge of static electricity from different surfaces. 'Orgonite' is made of epoxide resin and in principle could accumulate a static electricity in the same way as amber (natural resin) does, when it is rubbed against wool or some other fabric.

Putting the tester close to 'orgonite' doesn't prove that it 'emits negative ions'. In scientific experiments there must be positive and negative controls. In this case, it could be the testing various other surfaces, e.g., epoxide resin on its own, metals (earthed and insulated), obtaining background reading in different parts of the room, in particular, near the electric appliances, etc.

 

[magiktcup]

Putting the tester close to 'orgonit' doesn't prove that it 'emits negative ions'. In scientific experiments there must be positive and negative controls. In this case, it could be the testing various other surfaces, e.g., epoxide resin on its own, metals (earthed and insulated), obtaining background reading in different parts of the room, in particular, near the electric appliances, etc.

I agree and i hope on purchasing some orgonite and some kind of ion meter, perhaps the one in the video with the idea of testing it in ways like you said. I think ultimately it may be needed. dont mide buying the orgonite, some of these orgonite are quite visually appealing, and besides a could do with a paperweight.

 

[jonnyH]

The resin in orgonite shrinks during the curing process, permanently squeezing the quartz crystal inside which creates a well-known piezoelectric effect inside the crystal, meaning its end-points become polarized electrically. It is believed this is also what causes the orgonite to function so effectively as a positive energy generator

.

I don't think thats right. Epoxy does shrink when cured, but this will cause any holes in the matrix to get bigger not smaller. Theres lots of information on shrinkage voids online, mostly in reference to injection moulded plastics. The setting/curing process might differ for epoxy but the mechanism for void formation remains the same; shrinkage.

The resin would have to expand on setting to exert a force on the crystal and even then I have doubts that the force would be enough to generate any significant voltage, let alone enough for a crystal enclosed in an insulating polymer to ionise the air around it.

 

[Mick West]

I've looked into these videos. In both cases they use the same gadget to measure 'ions', KT401P Air Ion Tester, $50 a piece. I could not find a description of how does it work or what actually does it measure, or an 'official' manual for it. However, I've noted that the guy in the second video was wearing rubber gloves, whereas the girl in the first one did not.

It's probably something like this:
http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Misc/staticdet.htm

With the addition of some simple counting circuit replacing the meter. Just measuring charge in the air, actual numbers meaningless:
http://www.testmeter.sg/webshaper/store/viewProd.asp?pkProductItem=77

This Air Ion Tester is designed for test high level concentration of negative or positive air ion of air ion generator. With it you can estimate whether the air ion generator or air purifier is working in good state. The reading of the tester is correlative to the air ion concentration, but not exactly the number of it. In factor, this tester can only provide you a rough measurement to the air ion source. Please don't take it as an precision instrument.

So basically static electricity. There's nothing special about these objects. The static is a surface effect, the contents are irrelevant.

 

[magiktcup]

So basically static electricity. There's nothing special about these objects. The static is a surface effect, the contents are irrelevant.

So if i was to take measures to remove or reduce the static electricity from the surface of a ogronite i should get a considerably lower ion reading?

 

[magiktcup]

And maybe it is safe to assume if i just had a sheet of epoxy test resin, made out of the exact same material as the organite.
Then i would at first see the ions as with the organite, then i take steps on both to remove or reduce the static charge? They should both have a reduced ion reading or none at all?

 

[Mick West]

So if i was to take measures to remove or reduce the static electricity from the surface of a ogronite i should get a considerably lower ion reading?

Yes, and you would also want to try the opposite - rub it on the carpet to demonstrate an increase in static.

And maybe it is safe to assume if i just had a sheet of epoxy test resin, made out of the exact same material as the organite.
Then i would at first see the ions as with the organite, then i take steps on both to remove or reduce the static charge? They should both have a reduced ion reading or none at all?

You'd want to try things that are approximately the same size and shape if possible.

Also verify your assumptions by testing against things you know can get a large negative static charge, like a balloon rubbed on a wool sweater. See how that affects the meter.

Here's a nice simulator, showing what's going on at the charge level. Drag the balloon over the sweater.
http://phet.colorado.edu/sims/html/...atest/balloons-and-static-electricity_en.html

 

[magiktcup]

"You'd want to try things that are approximately the same size and shape if possible"

Yes definetly, why not just an epoxy pyramid? Same size same shape? I guess that would make a good test model.b
Nice simulator

 

[Mick West]

I've looked into these videos. In both cases they use the same gadget to measure 'ions', KT401P Air Ion Tester, $50 a piece. I could not find a description of how does it work or what actually does it measure, or an 'official' manual for it. However, I've noted that the guy in the second video was wearing rubber gloves, whereas the girl in the first one did not.

 

[Mick West]

So, two years later, I got one of these meters, the manual for which is in the post above.

The version I have is the KT-401. Most of the videos above use the KT-401P. The 401P version is a "peak hold", which just shows the largest negative reading. (i.e. the lowest number). Effectively this means it will ONLY show negative numbers.

But mine (KT-401) shows both positive and negative numbers, and lots of them. The design of the meter is that it shows changes in the electrical charge. If you hold it in any one position, then the reading will go down to zero.

This creates a misleading impression in some of the videos. When they move the 401P meter to an object, the reading that is show is the peak negative reading between when you switched it on, and not necessarily the reading at the object.

While the 401 (none-P) meter has wild swings in the reading, it's actually more informative as to what is going on. If you simply move it around near a object that accumulates static charge (like a plastic bag, or some bubble wrap), then it will show a variety of numbers as you move it, and then settle back to zero if you keep it in one location. Then if you move it again, it will show the charge relative to that location (which might be a large positive charge if you zeroed it in a negatively charged region).

So back to the 401P used in the videos, like this one.

The guy moves the meter around some orgonite in bubble-wrap. The negative reading goes up (i.e. a bigger negative quantity). He claims this is because of the orgonite cancelling out positive ions, but the reading going up is actually the only thing the meter can do. He's simply moving it around slowly, so the relative change in the reading is not that large. If he moves it faster, he will get bigger negative numbers. But since the only reading that is displayed is the peak reading, then it looks like there's a single reading that is gradually getting larger.

The underlying reading are more like this, note the negative peaks which are the only things displayed on his meter

And based on my experiments, it's the bubble wrap that's got a static charge which is giving the readings.

 

[Mick West]

Quick demonstration of getting a variety of readings by moving it around a rolled up plastic bag:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-axccKD9j4

 

[Mick West]

So what this means is that if an object has a very large positive charge (or is emitting positive ions) then moving the meter around this object will result in the display of very large negative charges, because when you move the meter to a positive position it will zero out, then moving it to a more neutral position will result in a relative negative reading (which really is just a "less positive" reading.

Since the 401P meter does not show positive readings, and only shows relative relative readings, then all you get is the largest change in the negative direction

All of which means that none of the videos with the meter and orgonite really show anything other than the expected variations.

It's also a bit confusing and difficult to explain to people.

 

[Efftup]

Science the shit out of it.

I LOVE this phrase!!!