Orb caught on webcam but what is it ?

Daves!

Active Member
Hi everyone, im trying to figure out what a glowing floating orb could be which has been captured on 2 seperate webcams in Vlissingen The Netherlands.
Its getting some media attention from news sites and is sparking some debate what it could be.
The dutch Astronomer Rijk-Jan Koppejan says its not an UFO nor a Chinese Lantern but possible a helicopter or plane maybe a drone.
Im trying to figure out if it is some balloon or Chinese Lantern. Its seems to fly pretty low in my opinion to be a plane. A drone isnt allowed to fly at night but that doesnt mean someone is still doing it.
Still im curious what more ideas people get when looking at this footage.

Date and time 21nd 2022 at 23:41
Location Vlissingen Netherlands

Video's
Source: https://youtu.be/lSojAakmCdI


Source: https://twitter.com/heelhollandkijk/status/1550443221683240962?t=dJfAzOLWCvWI3x51bQ8HXg&s=19


Link to news site ( Dutch )
https://www.pzc.nl/walcheren/wat-is...fo~a8cd3067/?referrer=https://www.google.com/

Maybe some of you can explain me more what it could be. Could it be a reflection?

The Dutch ufomeldpunt.nl ( site where people can report a sighting they cant explain ) also received some reports about it and are trying to figure it out. If more info is needed i am in direct contact with them so they can contact the witnesses.

Your help is much appreciated!
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
ADSB exchange does not show any helicopters over that location at 21:41 UTC on 21/7/2022 also generally a helicopter would have flashing navlights.

Work could be done on wind direction if we had geolocation of the cameras.
 

Daves!

Active Member

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Duke

Active Member
Doubtful it's a reflection since it's seen from different angles on different cameras. Looking at the speed of automobiles in the foreground leads me to believe video is being shown at real time speed, as opposed to being shown in slow(er) motion.

There are two airports (about 10 miles NE and 25 miles N) and a naval base (about 3 miles E) near Vlissingen. The first video and the first view on the second video appear to an a/c climbing out after takeoff. The second view on the second video looks like an a/c descending to land. Not sure this view shows the same "orb" as the first two, hard to without being to sync times.
 
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Ann K

Senior Member.
OT - Just curious: in the first video, why is the entire line of lights on the horizon pulsating regularly at about one second on, one second off?
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
OT - Just curious: in the first video, why is the entire line of lights on the horizon pulsating regularly at about one second on, one second off?
There is quite some (oil refinery) industry on the other side of the river (Terneuzen), could be that.
 

FatPhil

Senior Member.
OT - Just curious: in the first video, why is the entire line of lights on the horizon pulsating regularly at about one second on, one second off?

If this is a security camera, could it be powered by an uninteruptable powersupply that has an AC output frequency slightly different from the mains supplying whatever's in the distance, and the frame frequency is locked to the AC frequency, thus causing a beating effect. It's not visible to the eye normally due to persistence of vision, but electric lights do pulse - it's a real pain when trying to capture high speed footage under artificial light.
 

purpleivan

Member
This seems to be the camera (Youtube).
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr622ubkeuQ


The page for the operator of the cam, along with view from another is here.
https://www.rtvvlissingen.nl/webcams/

Clicking on the marker at that location brings up this info, which includes the address of Palingstraat 7, 4381 AE Vlissingen.
1658804793045.png

Click the link Vlissingenwebcam info to access info on the camera setup (scroll about halfway down the page and there's info in English).

The YT channel that the link to the video in the OP goes to is named "John Vlissingenwebcam", as John is the name given for the operator of the cam on the operator's About page, I'm guessing that it's the operator's YT channel.
 
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MapperGuy

New Member
The camera is looking out over a wide shipping channel, with multiple harbors on the other side. All sorts of nautical lights can be expected showing channel markers, the ends of breakwaters and other things seafarers need to be aware of. They are quite a ways off so differences in height would not be perceptible. If anyone has access to current nautical charts for this area I expect they would find many more navigation lights are present than we can see in the video.
 

Daves!

Active Member
Aditional info has been asked about the camera being used by the videouploader :

"My camera is a Pan tilt zoom 8mp 18x zoom dome camera, focused on the Western Scheldt 24/7 online. Hope I have informed you well."
 

Matt33

Member
The webcam clock apparently is 6,5 minutes ahead. Thus the orb appeared at around 23:35. There was a flight in the line of sight, however it appears to be too far away. Flight SF34, altitude 22.000ft/6700m.
Edit: messed it up with the time in the screenshot, where it's 6 minutes later. So it might not fit with that plane actually.
Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-26 um 09.08.27.jpg
 
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jarlrmai

Senior Member
1658824120914.png
These 4 'lights' are flagpoles:

1658824205975.png

Here they are during a windy night, they glow, lit up by an IR illuminator or local lights? If lit by IR illuminator this possibly indicates the object shown from this camera need not be self illuminated? So possibly a normal balloon. It also shows the wind was light during the "orb" video as the flags are slack.

This is the shot from a windy night

1658824178473.png

hmm the flags are illuminated at night

This morning shot shows it:

1658825098829.png

Potentially it could still be a balloon flying through a lit up area at this point.
 
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Ravi

Senior Member.
Potentially it could still be a balloon flying through a lit up area at this point.

Hmm, but it is hardly a lit up area. I am not convinced it is illuminated, I think it is a source. It might be a helicopter using a bright (IR) light. Possibly checking the Westerschelde (many transport ships).
 

Easy Muffin

Active Member
The building on the very left has a slanted roof with some windows sticking out of it vertically.

c.jpg

At the very start of the video it looks like they cast a shadow upwards - rather difficult to tell but it kind of looks like there's a light source below and to the left. A couple seconds later, when the light is in frame and above roof level, the same building seems to be illuminated from above.

a.jpgb.jpg

That's pretty much what I would expect it to look like if someone were to launch a drone from somewhere in front of the house and then fly it more or less directly above it. The building is also hit twice by what I assume are car headlights at street level but those only light up the windows, not the roof itself.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
Hmm, but it is hardly a lit up area. I am not convinced it is illuminated, I think it is a source. It might be a helicopter using a bright (IR) light. Possibly checking the Westerschelde (many transport ships).
There is no helo on ADSB, it could be military/police and have transponder turned off, but also helos have flashing nav lights
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
There is no helo on ADSB, it could be military/police and have transponder turned off, but also helos have flashing nav lights
Agreed. But the blob of light is also pretty large and bright, perhaps the (smaller) nav lights are not seen because of this? Just an idea.
Otherwise a drone is for me the next option.
 

Duke

Active Member
How are we accounting for what appears to be obvious differences in the flight paths of the "orbs" in the two views on the second video? That in the second view appears to be descending, while the orbs in the first video and the first view of the second video are climbing.
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
How are we accounting for what appears to be obvious differences in the flight paths of the "orbs" in the two views on the second video? That in the second view appears to be descending, while the orbs in the first video and the first view of the second video are climbing.
I think that is due to differences in perspective.
 

Easy Muffin

Active Member
It also says in the video that the second part was taken a little bit later ('een kleine minuut later'). These are the sightlines (in red) of the second video btw. The yellow one is a straight line from in front of the building I pointed out earlier to where it seems to come down at the end of the second video (which appears to be the end of a mole jutting out into the river/sea).

d.jpg

In the first video it looks as though the object disappears behind one of the blades of the windmill? That would make the path slightly curved.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
i think it's a drone these people are flying. (second vid) if the thing continued flying past that point, why would the video cut off?
7-26-2022 8-33-31 AM.jpg
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
Closely watching video number one, there's a conspicuous V-shaped glow behind and around it like the cartoon version of a comet. It suggests that the light itself is brighter toward the rear as it travels through a little haze, or it is emitting some vapor that trails behind it and is illuminated by the bright light.
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
It suggests that the light itself is brighter toward the rear as it travels through a little haze, or it is emitting some vapor that trails behind it
I took that to be an artifect of the camera/image-processing, while admitting I don't know enough about those things to move beyond the "hunch" stage.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
Closely watching video number one, there's a conspicuous V-shaped glow behind and around it like the cartoon version of a comet. It suggests that the light itself is brighter toward the rear as it travels through a little haze, or it is emitting some vapor that trails behind it and is illuminated by the bright light.
No, it is the 'persistence' of the night vision camera mode, if you watch the footage history of the YT page of the webcam in the link above at night you will see long trails from fast moving insects, and also similar small trails as per the object from ships moving in the water.

1658845723426.png
 
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jarlrmai

Senior Member
It also says in the video that the second part was taken a little bit later ('een kleine minuut later'). These are the sightlines (in red) of the second video btw. The yellow one is a straight line from in front of the building I pointed out earlier to where it seems to come down at the end of the second video (which appears to be the end of a mole jutting out into the river/sea).

d.jpg

In the first video it looks as though the object disappears behind one of the blades of the windmill? That would make the path slightly curved.
There's a definite dimming as it goes past the windmill blade in the B&W video at the end

Which puts it in that general area below your top red line, might be one for sitrec @Mick West, given the multiple angles, pity we don't have 100% correlated timestamps..
 

Daves!

Active Member
How about the speed ? Is this a speed fast or small enough for a lantern ?
@deirdre you wrote that you see people on the video can you point out what time i missed them.
Im curious to your observation that they are flying something.
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
Not sure if of use, but I timed a person walking on the dike towards the windmill. It took approx the same time as it took for the "ufo" to cross the scene.
I think this is the path walked (orange or yellow):

ddgdg.png
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
Ha! I think I know what it was...
A sailboat with large mast and lamp in top.

If you look at the ships passing at night, it makes sense. check the webcam.
 

Daves!

Active Member
Ha! I think I know what it was...
A sailboat with large mast and lamp in top.

If you look at the ships passing at night, it makes sense. check the webcam.
Arent there any apps or sites we can check boats sailing aka something like flightradar but with historical nautical charts ?
I thought about it too even a bouy. But so high in the sky ?
 
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Mlindell

New Member
Yes, MarineTraffic. But as I already mentioned upthread, there are no AIS recordings of sailboats around that time, just large engine-powered vessels.

A Tall Ships Races event was commencing the next day in Antwerp, meaning that any large sailboats would likely be navigating east towards that city, and not west as seen in this video.
 
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Ravi

Senior Member.
Arent there any apps or sites we can check boats sailing aka flightradar ?
I thought about it too even a bouy. But so high in the sky ?
It is not that high up if you consider the camera is (likely*) a few meters below sea level. Also, sea worthy sailing boat masts are quite large.

* I looked at the topographical map, it is more ± 0m
 

Duke

Active Member
How about the speed ? Is this a speed fast or small enough for a lantern ?
@deirdre you wrote that you see people on the video can you point out what time i missed them.
Im curious to your observation that they are flying something.
Lantern speeds are a function of wind speed, which can in turn vary significantly as a function of altitude. I've seen lanterns/balloons change both speed and direction with altitude. A few years back I watched a Loon balloon move around the sky like a butterfly as it changed altitude.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
Ha! I think I know what it was...
A sailboat with large mast and lamp in top.

If you look at the ships passing at night, it makes sense. check the webcam.
I took a look at it as well and had that same thought, but it would have to be incredibly tall and close, there's also no occlusion of distant lights by the mast and you would expect it to light the mast/ship a little it also doesn't match for the other videos from the different angles, that I can see.

It seems to drift about bit too much for a boat as well.

Drone or lantern both seem to fit best at the moment.
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
I took a look at it as well and had that same thought, but it would have to be incredibly tall and close, there's also no occlusion of distant lights by the mast and you would expect it to light the mast/ship a little it also doesn't match for the other videos from the different angles, that I can see.

It seems to drift about bit too much for a boat as well.

Drone or lantern both seem to fit best at the moment.
Yeah, you are right. I checked it again and in no way the vessel would be invisible..

Oh well.

But I agree about the drone option.
 

Daves!

Active Member
Im going to ask if there is more and longer footage of the 2nd webcam.
I can see its descending, but then the video stops.
 

Duke

Active Member
Im going to ask if there is more and longer footage of the 2nd webcam.
I can see its descending, but then the video stops.
So you are saying the second view on the second video is of the same orb in the first view, but taken later than the first view? In that case, the orb seen climbing initially is shown descending at some later time? That makes more sense than perspective, and woukd lead me to believe it's a drone as well.

Illuminating a drone is usually done by one of two methods, pyrotechnics or electric (usually LED) light strips/kits. If this is a drone, I'd say it's the latter. Knowing the total time elapsed would be helpful.
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
the orb seen climbing initially is shown descending at some later time? That makes more sense than perspective, and woukd lead me to believe it's a drone as well.
Would also generally fit what a lantern might do, though I'd expect the light to dim prior to it starting to descend, if it is an actual descent and not a perspective thing.
 

Duke

Active Member
Would also generally fit what a lantern might do, though I'd expect the light to dim prior to it starting to descend, if it is an actual descent and not a perspective thing.
Agreed, that's why I suggested it's more likely an LED equipped drone than a lantern/drone using flame/pyrotechnics. They tend to flicker/dim, whereas the electric lights stay fairly consistent.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
@deirdre you wrote that you see people on the video can you point out what time i missed them
the very end of the video when it switches to this scene you an see them moving around. theres a few poeple near
1658883391038.png


add: a few people near the right hand set of cars too.
 
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purpleivan

Member
I had a quick look on Youtube and the Vlissingen shoreline and docks area seems to be popular with drone enthusiasts, with various videos on there showing the area of costline in which the light is seen.

One of them even shows a fairly closeup view of the area in which it's been suggested that a group of people (possibly operating a drone) can be seen towards the end of the 2nd video in the OP (0:09 to 0:13).
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ-53F_Gjb0


Although it's been said that drones aren't allowed to be operated over the water, they clearly are, based on videos from them. e..g this one, which shows even more closeup views of the area in the 2nd video (0:48 onwards).
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUCY9FkHTec


This video even follows a very similar path (from the start) as the orb, beginning by rising up from a small beach to the East of the windmill, then flying along the coast to the area seen at the end of the 2nd video in the OP.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVdl8mtE3Lw


If someone was to take the flight seen in that last video, with a drone supporting a bright light then it might look very similar to what's seen in the first video in the OP.
 
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