November 13 2024 Congress hearings

JMartJr said:
the vast majority of it is a timeline that tosses out an astonishing array of of conspiracy theories and "woo" claims, from 1947 and Roswell (yes, again/still) forward to 2023
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looks like the latest version of the timeline he's been showing around?

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-congressional-uap-hearings-debrief.13077/post-296351
"Please subscribe now to support Public's groundbreaking investigative reporting and to gain access to 177-page timeline covering 75 years of UAP history."
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More discussion in this thread:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/im...ication-and-crash-retrieval.13694/post-325066
And the document was missing historical information that appeared in the 117-page "UAP Timeline" document created by a former or existing US government intelligence officer that Public published last year.
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"Public" being Shellenberger, who co-authored the timeline.

It seems to be growing, regardless of debunks.
 
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Maybe, but I note that it has not been updated to the present, unless that part has somehow been truncated from what was posted online. The last item is in February of last year. Perhaps 2024 has been an uneventful year for them...
 
JMartJr said:
Shellenberger's planned testimony is here: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/...G-118-GO12-Wstate-ShellenbergerM-20241113.pdf It is about 11 pages long, followed by 201 pages of appendices. Just skimming through the latter,the vast majority of it is a timeline that tosses out an astonishing array of of conspiracy theories and "woo" claims, from 1947 and Roswell (yes, again/still) forward to 2023 -- I will quote the second to the last one on page 212, it seems to me to capture the intellectual rigor of the timeline while also having entertainment value:

External Quote:

8 February 2023 — Journalist George Knapp says Alfred O'Donnell, a former
senior manager at EG&G, a defense contractor that managed Area 51, told him "they" had a flying saucer
recovered in New Mexico. EG&G also had a "live being" who looked human, kind of like Ross Perot
and not the classic gray alien.
●
https://www.liberationtimes.com/home/former-chief-for-defense-contractor-that-ran-area-51-clai
med-knowledge-of-recovered-flying-saucer-and-live-being-as-congress-looks-to-uncover-details-
of-alleged-illegal-ufo-programs
I may file a FOIA request seeking any and all photographs of this Alien who looks like Ross Perot.

It drags out many of the old and new chestnuts of credulous UFOlogy, and I consider it to be the longest Gish Gallop I have ever encountered (skimming the first 11 pages of actual testimony, my understanding is that Shellenberger did not write/compile this timeline, but thinks it should have been included in an earlier report (the AARO report?) So it would be unfair to blame him for creating, it, his sole blame regarding the list is to dump it into the record of a hearing of the United States Congress.

Being as long as it is, and having just found it myself, I have not yet red it all but wanted to go ahead and post the link for interested parties, in advance of tomorrow's hearings. I hope that this bypassing of the no click policy will be forgiven in light of the length of the document and the shortness of time before the hearing. If I find anyting in reading the document that I think should have been mentioned, I'll add a follow up post.

I assume other witness statements/testimony may be discoverable on this site House.gov site, but have not searched for them as I already have more than I will be able to read in time, before the actual hearing.
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My first thought when I saw Shellenberger as a witness was, why? He's just a journalist, that seems to have jumped on the Knapp, Howe and Coulthart UFO journalism bandwagon. Then I saw the post above with Gallaudet bitching about ARRO and the historical timeline. This is back to Shellenberger's "UFO Timeline" thing he published, handed out to congress and pretended to sorta "leak" to News Nation. It's garbage, and as @JMartJr noted, acts as a giant Gish Gallop.

We discussed it as noted by @Mendel above in another thread. In post #104 I broke down the sourcing for the original "UFO Timeline", noting that of the ~550-580 claims, many came from places like Linda Multon Howes Earthfiles website (27), Vallee's memoir Forbidden Science (47), a Leonard Stringfield 1978 MUFON talk (24) and other reliable sources like the comments section of reddit.com (30). Again, it's complete crap.

So, this time Gallaudet and Shellenberger are going to tag team a new version of the "UFO Timeline"? To once again prove the sum is greater than the parts I suppose.

Guess I'll have to delve into the new timeline and compare it with the old one.
 
ced0412 said:
I've seen it repeated on Reddit as well as here that Gallaudet has made paranormal claims such as his daughter is psychic but I haven't been able to source it.

Anyone have that? If that is true then his credibility should be non-existent.
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Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/1gp7k9q/the_truth_about_the_supposed_witnesses_testifying/


External Quote:

Timothy Gallaudet

American oceanographer and retired Navy Admiral Timothy Gallaudet claims that giant underwater crafts known as unidentified submersible objects (USO) traveling at incredibly high speeds have been detected by the U.S. government. Gallaudet also claims his 6yr old daughter is a medium who sees spirits and can communicate with them.

Gallaudet's wife and daughter appeared on a paranormal TV show called Dead Files in 2016. Gallaudet and his wife claim that their house is haunted by violent poltergeists. Their youngest daughter thinks ghosts and monsters are hiding in her room and her parents validate her fantasies as real. Gallaudet says he's taken his daughter to multiple psychics to try to help her.

Here's a clip from the TV show Dead Files in which Gallaudet's wife speaks about her daughter's experiences with the paranormal. In addition, Gallaudet says he sought help from Theresa Caputo, known as the Long Island Medium from her TV show on TLC:


Source: https://x.com/i/status/1795866760098492739


Theresa Caputo is a fraud who uses a well-known technique known as cold reading to take advantage of grieving people. This same technique is used by magicians all the time. Here's a video debunking Caputo (warning, some strong language and adult jokes):

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Cy-fY72B0


In this interview Gallaudet discusses his paranormal experiences:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1sgHZLzBDk


In this interview Gallaudet discusses underwater alien bases, UFO psyops, and weather manipulation weapons.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NVDCtSxIac

 
Mendel said:
looks like the latest version of the timeline he's been showing around?
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It is. It's the same one. A search of the header used for each entry, (POUBLIC DOMAIN), yields that same 586 hits as the one we discussed in the other thread. These guys are seriously butt hurt that ARRO didn't take their collection of rumors, 2nd hand anecdotes and outright fantasies as fact.

The extra content is a mishmash including a lot of stuff from the UAP Task Force. That would be Elizondo's AATIP buddy, Jay Stratton and his "Chief Scientist" Dr. Travis Taylor. Shellenberger includes photos like this that the UAPTF couldn't figure out:

1731456477719.png


I don't know if he means this as evidence or what.
 
NorCal Dave said:
So, this time Gallaudet and Shellenberger are going to tag team a new version of the "UFO Timeline"? To once again prove the sum is greater than the parts I suppose.
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What I don't understand is how any of the documents can be considered to be a "witness" statement. Are there any statements within of these people actually witnessing anything?

It's closer to a manifesto, and we all know what kind of people tend to be behind those.
 
JMartJr said:
Credibility dropping towards zero, but credulity approaching ∞... will be interesting to see what happens, though I confess I am not optimistic.

Folks, we have a lot of work ahead of us.
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However, we're dealing with people who look *up* to people like the medium Theresa Caputo, whom even [EDIT: mis-spelt his name, as you can tell, I'm no fan] *Criss Angel* looks down on.

With the christian right gaining so much influence over the american zeitgeist, perhaps we could just set them against each other, as I seem to remember the bible saying something like: "There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord; and because of these abominable practices the Lord your God is driving them out before you." ( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy 18:10-12&version=RSV )
 
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I'm particularly interested in Michael Gold's contribution; he doesn't seem to be a UFO/UAP/Dinobeaver enthusiast, and his statement is quite sensible.
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO12/20241113/117721/HHRG-118-GO12-Wstate-GoldM-20241113.pdf
5
E. Develop and Deploy Dedicated Instruments to Detect and Gather Data on UAP
When NASA studies celestial objects and phenomena, planets, black holes, and galaxies, it does so with equipment that has been developed specifically for such tasks. If NASA had to study space with data collected from fighter cockpit cameras, radar from military installations, and cell phones, very little good science would be done. Therefore, it's worth considering building instruments tailored to study the UAP phenomena. Doing so would be more costly than other recommendations described in my testimony and, again, NASA is facing very difficult budgetary constraints, but I at least wanted to put the concept forward in the unlikely event that funding does become available.
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So, a plea for funding.
Not much chance for success, but with a populist government, who knows?
 
What's interesting about Tim's BIO he submitted to the hearing is that it does not mention something his BIO on Wiki includes. Namely that Tim Gallaudet was program manager for Anti-submarine warfare (ASW) & commanding officer of the Naval Oceanography Special Warfare Center. He set up the first Navy SEAL program for unmanned aerial and underwater vehicles and other sensors to detect and locate enemy forces.
 
Eburacum said:
I'm particularly interested in Michael Gold's contribution; he doesn't seem to be a UFO/UAP/Dinobeaver enthusiast, and his statement is quite sensible.
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Weeeeellllll.....

Screenshot_20241113-124811_Samsung Notes.jpg

Gold has a history with Bigelow, who finagled a multi-million dollar government contract to hunt werewolves on Skinwalker Ranch (AAWSAP), which got Elizondo in the game.

But most of all, he's talking for NASA (though his TiT sheet says he's speaking for himself):
Screenshot_20241113-125254_Samsung Notes.jpg


Paraphrased: "If you're spending money on this, please give it to NASA!"
His statement pretty much follows what the NASA Independent Study Panel published last year, see https://www.metabunk.org/threads/nasa-uap-independent-study-team-final-report.13166/#post-301825 .

I guess it would be sensible to give money to NASA, if it was sensible to spend money on "UAP research" at all. However, the US government determined 50 years ago that it'd be wasted money, and there's been no evidence since then that has invalidated this assessment.

If the Trump administration is going to cut NASA's climate research, and they can keep the sensors operating by labeling them UAP research, I'm for it. But it remains true that studying UAP is going have marginal military or scientific usefulness.
 

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jackfrostvc said:
What's interesting about Tim's BIO he submitted to the hearing is that it does not mention something his BIO on Wiki includes. Namely that Tim Gallaudet was program manager for Anti-submarine warfare (ASW) & commanding officer of the Naval Oceanography Special Warfare Center. He set up the first Navy SEAL program for unmanned aerial and underwater vehicles and other sensors to detect and locate enemy forces.
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One could also uncharitably argue that he's a consultant on underwater sensor systems who's now advocating for the government to spend more money on underwater sensor systems. It's literally his post-retirement gig.
 
jdog said:
One could also uncharitably argue that he's a consultant on underwater sensor systems who's now advocating for the government to spend more money on underwater sensor systems. It's literally his post-retirement gig.
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I don't really buy this as being that explanatory of his behavior. There are many ways to argue for more funding of surveillance sensors that don't involve a bunch of beliefs about how people are currently interacting with ghosts and extraterrestrials. Those are deeply held beliefs that may fuel a desire for more surveillance sensors, but if it was simply a financial interest in more surveillance sensors, I think one would pick an argument strategy that is less fringe and more likely to convince a majority of Congress to act quickly.
 
Elizondo mentioned UFOs messing with nuclear readiness. Are there other cases besides Malmstrom where it was claimed UFOs messed with nukes?
 
Burlison asked Elizondo if Elizondo got into a SCIF with members of Congress, could Elizondo describe the evidence proving his claim that some UAP incidents are NHI technology. Elizondo said it would be up to "the gatekeepers in the US government".

This is so wild. What level of classification is the information he's talking about, such that even Congress, which ostensibly has unlimited ability to access and control classified information, can't access it without executive branch approval?

Say Elizondo tells members of Congress, in a SCIF, what the proof of ET/NHI visitation is, and someone in the executive branch doesn't like it. Wouldn't Congress be extremely motivated to protect Elizondo if he was retaliated against by the executive branch? This would be a constitutionality issue with separation of powers. I don't understand what everyone's so scared of. They think the DOJ is going to go after them and Congress won't protect their own witnesses providing testimony Congress demanded?
 
It appears that the imaginative Congress members have readily accepted the extraordinary claim that UFOs equate to aliens without any evidence beyond anecdotes/"trust me it's classified." They are even considering allocating funds based on this presumption. It seems to me it would be MUCH more beneficial for the public to invest in civics, critical thinking, and applied science education. Perhaps then we would elect officials who demand solid evidence before allocating taxpayer money.

It seems that members of Congress would prefer to have a "Elizondo's Golden Ticket" to see the tantalizing "evidence" of "aliens," instead of attending mundane meetings and performing accountable governance. I wonder how much this hearing itself cost the American public?
 
How was the program [Immaculate Constellation] discovered?

According to Shellenberger, the whistleblower discovered the program by accident after stumbling upon a database containing UFO information.
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https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/what-is-immaculate-constellation/

Apologies for sounding snarky, but those are some impressive cybersecurity measures for such a sensitive program nobody can know about. Alternatively, perhaps, it wasn't very "secret" at all.
 
There was a 12-page report on the alleged undocumented SAP "Immaculate Constellation" that submitted to the Congress members by Michael Shellenberger right before the hearing started. It was entered into the hearing record by Nancy Mace, so it should eventually be available.
 
Harabeck said:
Elizondo mentioned UFOs messing with nuclear readiness. Are there other cases besides Malmstrom where it was claimed UFOs messed with nukes?
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Oh, yes, quite a few. Robert Hastings has made it his life's work to go around collecting them. He even includes Rendlesham on the list, because Col Halt thought he saw a UFO shining beams towards the nuclear weapons store. These claims could perhaps be examined one by one, starting with Malmstrom in this thread
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/uf...lmstrom-eagle-flight-skeptical-resources.3284
and the various threads about Rendlesham.

There are very few indications that these reports are anything but mythologising. If the aliens are interested in messing with nuclear weapons they seem to have been singularly ineffective at the task.
 
I literally fell asleep towards the end of the hearing but since went back and watched the last 20 minutes or so. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Mike Gold offer up anything of interest at all, at any point?

Meanwhile, Boebert actually asked the four "witnesses" about rumored genetic manipulation and the possible creation of human/alien hybrids. All four claimed no knowledge of such a program. :D
 
Kyle Ferriter said:
What level of classification is the information he's talking about, such that even Congress, which ostensibly has unlimited ability to access and control classified information, can't access it without executive branch approval?
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None whatsoever under DOD/IC/Executive Branch with one exception. Congress by law is entitled to -- Executive Branch's opinions are legally irrelevant -- to be briefed at minimum Gang of 8 level for literally anything at all that is classified. If anything in the Executive Branch does a covert or secret thing, a SAP, waved SAP, whatever, or is funded by the US Treasury, Congress at least at the most senior level is mandated and compelled to be briefed.

The one single exception is some data restricted under the Atomic Energy Act, which, unsurprisingly... well, here:

https://www.congress.gov/amendment/118th-congress/senate-amendment/2610/text

Legislation is necessary because credible evidence and testimony indicate that Federal Government unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification review as set forth in Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information). This is due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), as well as an over-broad interpretation of "transclassified foreign nuclear information," which is also exempt from mandatory declassification, thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law.
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