Ann K
Senior Member.
You're missing the point. If the screen is at even a slightly different angle, it won't reflect the same things.
Myrtles Plantation 'Ghost' Photo
- Thread starter Scaramanga
- Start date
Scaramanga
Senior Member
It definitely is a reflection, as the image actually appears twice....as mentioned earlier. But, here is something that is genuinely weird and needs explaining. Why would the shadow of the segment with the ( green ? ) scarf on it over-ride most of the second reflection ? A shadow on the wall behind the reflected image logically ought not to be 'in front of' the reflected image from the glass ! Think about it, and its a bit bizarre.
MonkeeSage
Senior Member.
Looking at the bottom of the divider panels, they are at different angles. Maybe the "middle" one is just barely catching reflection of one of the "shoulders" of whatever it is, and the shadow just happens to line up somewhat with the "shoulder" and kind of looks like it's in front.
Kind of on a tangent, but I was also trying to identify something in the pic. Trying figure out what the heck this thing on the right that looked like an old wash basin was, because I hadn't seen it in other pics or videos:
john.phil posted a helpful bunch pics of the room in post #29, and it turns out it is an old bathtub/wash basin or a crib or something.
This might be a very similar layout to the photo we are discussing based on the positioning of everything we can see in the photo, but like Ann K said we don't really know if the screen in exactly the same position. I think I like deidre's vase hypothesis, seems like a pretty good fit if this is a similar layout to the photo. It does seem very big to be the vase though.
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john.phil
Senior Member.
It's a green dress.
What if the reflection is one of the chandelier lampshades? The dressing screen panes are not perfectly upright, they could be slightly tilted back, so we are seeing from the height of the mantlepiece towards the ceiling:
RobertBillyBob
Member
With a quick and dirty 3D recreation of the scene the shape matches pretty well with the reflection of a person in white standing in front of the person in the orange shirt.
I think this part is the reflection of the back of the shoulder of the person in the orange shirt :
I think this part is the reflection of the back of the shoulder of the person in the orange shirt :
deirdre
Senior Member.
i'm aware of that but as far as 3 months ago it wasnt a different angle. so someone could at least try. even if it got put back -after say vacuuming*- slightly askew it would still give a general idea of what is reflected in the glass.
it can't hurt to try if someone lives nearby. If it seems to stay in the same position like 6 months from now i might contact the Inn and ask them to experiment (like the Lochness landlords did) but they just had a film put out on Netflix and it seems unseemly, since that place looks pretty expensive to upkeep and i'm guessing the ghost tours really help. I'd hate to have an employee debunk the most recent advert right away!
*(although they likely do that from the doorway to avoid messing with the antiques too much)
deirdre
Senior Member.
probably.
but 1.it could still be a reflection of a ghost. there's no history to suggest ghosts 'appear' in mirrors/glass, i imagine they are reflected the same way we are.
2. you cant just "say" it is a reflection of the same thing in the second glass. on MB we try to prove it.
Otherwise what was the point of this or any other thread on MB?
based on the lamp shadow, i personally think that is a shadow of the very last dressing screen panel on the side wall.
RobertBillyBob
Member
How can we be sure she has pictures of everyone that was here?External Quote:
In my 3D reconstruction the 2nd person is approx 1.75m tall, the shape would match a 1.75m tall woman (or less with heels) with high waisted pants/skirt, not a small person.External Quote:
it's hard to get the placement right, but from what I managed to get the bedside lamp, the chandelier, the mantlepiece, the vase and the mirror can not be in the reflection without a significant change in positions/angles.
This window could be reflected. It's right at the right place with the angles I have. But the scene looks too dim, I don't think this windows being bright enough for the reflection would leave the room as dark.
I still think it is someone though. It's a human shaped reflection that could be produced by a realistic human at a realistic position.
deirdre
Senior Member.
that's why included this pic. i assume the dressing panels are "shrunk" appropriately because they are the same distance away. and we can see the actual vase reflected directly into the mirror...which i assume gives us an approx size the reflectionwould be across the room?
MonkeeSage
Senior Member.
Idk the reflection looks closer/larger to me, I would expect the vase to be somewhere between 1/5 - 1/10 size in the reflection based on where it is in the room, but I don't have a better candidate and it does look like the vase
Scaramanga
Senior Member
If the image is a reflection of a ghost then the ghost would be in the direct line of sight of the guy who's back we can see at the right of the image. He'd surely have seen it. However I need to illustrate something in order to make my point about the shadows clearer.....
You can clearly see from the blue lines the direction of the shadows. The shadow on the wall within the red circle is to my mind the shadow of the panel with the green scarf on it. That shadow is hiding part of the reflection of some bright object. That can logically only mean that whatever that bright object is....its above the line of sight of the blue line I've drawn.
A shadow behind the panel and on the wall should NOT obscure a reflection from the panel that is in front of the wall.
I hope I've explained what I'm getting at. It's not that easy to explain. It's one of those spatial manipulation thingies.
So we have what is to my mind proof that that particular reflection is of something up in the air. It has to be in order for it to be obscured by that shadow. And if the second reflection is of something actually higher up in the room....that's further good evidence that the primary reflection is too, and the chandelier becomes our culprit.
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Ann K
Senior Member.
You say it's a reflection of the vase, but the arrow on the photo points to the fluted lampshade which looks like a much better fit (you had previously wondered why it seemed brighter on top), with some other object causing the "head" and "neck" illusion.
deirdre
Senior Member.
in the mirror? yea that panel is a bit further away then our panel..but im not sure how big hte room is to know how much further it is scale wise.
JMartJr
Senior Member.
Not sure if this tells us anything, but I notice that the center of the image is pretty low on the screen, indicating either that the camera is tilted down or is held pretty low (like the photographer took a knee or hunched down to get the shot they wanted.)
If the latter, that would change the expected vertical position of the item being reflected. As I type, I note also that the vertical lines in the image show a bit of perspective, hang on, let me dash back to PhotoShop...
Even allowing for the screen panels perhaps not being perfectly vertical, what's happening at the door suggest an angled down camera to me. (The right-most yellow line is anomalous, because I just realized it is not vertical, it's a diagonal leg on the tub, disregard that one!)
I'll leave it to you Angle Visualizers to decide if that has any impact on anything!
If the latter, that would change the expected vertical position of the item being reflected. As I type, I note also that the vertical lines in the image show a bit of perspective, hang on, let me dash back to PhotoShop...
Even allowing for the screen panels perhaps not being perfectly vertical, what's happening at the door suggest an angled down camera to me. (The right-most yellow line is anomalous, because I just realized it is not vertical, it's a diagonal leg on the tub, disregard that one!)
I'll leave it to you Angle Visualizers to decide if that has any impact on anything!
Ann K
Senior Member.
It means that any discussion of shadows is irrelevant, as reflections are not shadows, and reflection position is a function of camera position.
I don't think your vertical lines clarify anything, because I wouldn't expect a folding screen (especially an antique one) to be completely rigid (hinges do loosen with time), nor would I expect the floors in an old house to be perfectly level.
deirdre
Senior Member.
we dont know that. as Monkee pointed out the angles of the panels are different.
he's looking down a this phone
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deirdre
Senior Member.
the vase is circled in pink. the green line is going to a square bump in her "hip" that i think could be the top edge of the lampshade.
deirdre
Senior Member.
we can see the ankles of the man? in the shorts.
Ann K
Senior Member.
Basic optics: If the "person" in the reflection appears to be, say, a person at twenty feet away, that corresponds to something the size of a real person at ten feet away. A reflection of a twenty-inch vase at ten feet away would appear much, much smaller than that. If it's a smaller object it would have to be much closer, and I think that would mean it should be something within the photo.
Caveat: That's assuming a plane mirror reflection. The screen is old, and if the glass is wavy or distorted, all bets are off.
My opinion? It's probably a person.
deirdre
Senior Member.
i already posted a vase distance size to panel ratio pic, that works. #50
That's fine.
Ann K
Senior Member.
No, the reflection size in the mirror that is immediately beside it is almost the same size. Back to basic optics: If, as it appears, that screen is about ten feet from the vase on the mantle, its reflection would look as if it were a vase twenty feet away, and much smaller. As an example, see how small the screen looks when reflected in the large mirror over the fireplace. Similarly, the vase would appear tiny if reflected in the glass of the screen.
deirdre
Senior Member.
yea but the screen would be bigger.
Ann K
Senior Member.
Exactly.
deirdre
Senior Member.
the ghost of the vase is here.if you dont see her, no worries. i found another screen pic where the ladies say they see 2-3 ghosts and i can't even find one.
Can anyone else find a ghost in this pic?
deirdre
Senior Member.
just realized i never posted this, not sure if people can see what i do especially since the 'sleeves" (vase handles) are pretty dark here but i think it shows the "cyclop breast" and shirt neckline pretty good. i did smear the very top lip of the vase as the light hit in in b&w so was a distraction.
anyway, if it helps anyone...
anyway, if it helps anyone...
Scaramanga
Senior Member
For a bit of context, notice the green scarf hanging over one of the panels. The plantation ghost known as Chloe allegedly wore a green scarf in real life ( the Netflix episode says so, but also says there is no evidence Chloe ever existed ). It's thus no accident that such a scarf has been placed there. So it seems to me that is what is being photographed in that scene, which would explain the last minute photo from really quite an odd angle of just a corner of the room.
Scaramanga
Senior Member
Unfortunately yes. Now my ghost hunting pareidolia neurons have to spend a week recharging....
deirdre
Senior Member.
its a dress.
it is a weird pic to take, i assumed she was just snapping shots all over which is what i would do in ahunted house as you never know where the ghosts are going to appear. Ironically, despite tht allegedly being one of the most haunted rooms in the house, there are ALOT mroe pics of their pet black cat than that room! (and i looked all through instagram and flickr.)
deirdre
Senior Member.
i'm so frustrated. i still cant see it
but thanks for narrowing it down for me..ill keep looking at it periodically and see..
JMartJr
Senior Member.
Here's one that I "see."
Standing woman in profile, dark high collar, arm has to be really forced to look like an arm... Pareidolia is a fun mind-quirk!
deirdre
Senior Member.
Ann K
Senior Member.
Mauro
Senior Member.
Oh wow, I wouldn't have found the lady in the mirror myself, but once seen it gets very difficult to 'unsee'. Nice
John J.
Senior Member.
@Ann K,
Nah, that's just Justin Welby, Archbishop of Canterbury and leader of the Anglican Communion*. He often looks like that.
That might be the Donnie Darko rabbit behind his left shoulder; if it's a recent pic maybe he delivered an Easter egg.
Probably an inter-faith dialogue thing.
*Not the same as Whitley Streiber's Communion. Less abductions, more jumble sales.
Nah, that's just Justin Welby, Archbishop of Canterbury and leader of the Anglican Communion*. He often looks like that.
That might be the Donnie Darko rabbit behind his left shoulder; if it's a recent pic maybe he delivered an Easter egg.
Probably an inter-faith dialogue thing.
*Not the same as Whitley Streiber's Communion. Less abductions, more jumble sales.
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JMartJr
Senior Member.
The unoffical motto of pareidolia.
Scaramanga
Senior Member
My pareidolia sees a face ( looking towards the left ) right at the top of the bright bit. I see eyes, a nose, even a head covering, even a beard, and an X type shape lower down is the arms folded. In fact it looks more like Jesus in head gear and robes. Heck...who needs toast when you've got mirrors
deirdre
Senior Member.
oh i saw him for a second then spotted Annes guy and cant place your guy again. but instead of a pope he looks to me more like a butler with a high starch collar. If you unfocus your eyes like those hidden art posters you start to see them all over in different dress.. even one woman with a beehive and a fur shoulder wrap. neato.My pareidolia sees a face ( looking towards the left ) right at the top of the bright bit. I see eyes, a nose, even a head covering, even a beard, and an X type shape lower down is the arms folded. In fact it looks more like Jesus in head gear and robes. Heck...who needs toast when you've got mirrors
deirdre
Senior Member.
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