Morgellons fibers and crystals

[Oxymoron]

Why do I think the pot is boiling over on this one?



Maybe because when you start examining your skin with a microscope and posting stuff like this, you're really losing it.

So what are the above pictures? Are they real? Faked? What?
This bottom one is the same type of thing Morgellons sufferers find.

 

[JRBids]

So what are the above pictures? Are they real? Faked? What?
This bottom one is the same type of thing Morgellons sufferers find.

I think if you start picking stuff off your skin and putting it under a microscope you may find all kinds of things. You don't know what it is an you make up a little story that spreads. Look at the "chemtrails" are they real? Fake? Well they're real contrails, but the story about what they are is made up.

 

[Oxymoron]

I think if you start picking stuff off your skin and putting it under a microscope you may find all kinds of things. You don't know what it is an you make up a little story that spreads. Look at the "chemtrails" are they real? Fake? Well they're real contrails, but the story about what they are is made up.

If I had that/them on/imbedded in me, (which apparently thousands of people have), I would be extremely concerned. 'Scientific' assurances that it was 'fluffnstuff' is condescending and an outright lie, (if they are examining what is in the pictures and the pictures are not fake).

If you found them on you, what would you conclude?

 

[JRBids]

If I had that/them on/imbedded in me, (which apparently thousands of people have), I would be extremely concerned. 'Scientific' assurances that it was 'fluffnstuff' is condescending and an outright lie, (if they are examining what is in the pictures and the pictures are not fake).

If you found them on you, what would you conclude?

I can't assume the pictures are not fake, there are too many questions. Fibers with serial numbers on them? Someone on FB recently posted a CLOUD that they said had "2 letters and a number". Sure enough, if you blew up the photo, it looked like it had a couple of letters and a number on it. You believe THAT?! Bugs that grow a leg after I yank it off? I'd google "skin parasites". I can assure you the last thing I would think if I found anything anywhere is some convoluted explanation such as "it's a nano bot that the government developed in a secret lab, built special spray planes, and hired pilots (or programmed to have robots fly) to spray it over my town in order to make my body a giant radio receiver in order to mind control me through a secret facility in Alaska that everyone knows about but only a select few know it's real use" or "it's a life form that the government developed in a secret lab, built special spray planes, and hired pilots (or programmed to have robots fly) to spray it over my town in order to infect me with a disease."

If it were so, why isn't everyone in your town itching, scratching, sneezing, and showing up with skin and pulmonary conditions?

 

[Jay Reynolds]

If you found them on you, what would you conclude?

Dust mites skin debris hair and clothing fibers.

On a micro level, we live in an incredibly nasty world full of mini-monsters and trash heaps.
Look at some scanning electron microscopic images of that hidden world and freak the hell out.

 

[Oxymoron]

I can't assume the pictures are not fake, there are too many questions.

Ok, you think they are fake... fair enough, there are plenty of fake pictures around. It is disturbing that so many people would go to the trouble of faking them tho.

Fibers with serial numbers on them? Someone on FB recently posted a CLOUD that they said had "2 letters and a number". Sure enough, if you blew up the photo, it looked like it had a couple of letters and a number on it. You believe THAT?! Bugs that grow a leg after I yank it off? I'd google "skin parasites". I can assure you the last thing I would think if ...

Yes but disregarding the 'last thing you would think', what would be the first thing that you thought... if you did find them in/on you? And what if it went on and on?

 

[Cairenn]

I would most likely think I had managed to get scabies again.

Of course, I have had microbiology, so I have an idea of what is found on the body, and in our environment.

 

[Mick West]

If I had that/them on/imbedded in me, (which apparently thousands of people have), I would be extremely concerned. 'Scientific' assurances that it was 'fluffnstuff' is condescending and an outright lie, (if they are examining what is in the pictures and the pictures are not fake).

If you found them on you, what would you conclude?

The pictures are not fake, but they do just seem to show stuff you find in dust, and hence on the skin. When people have neurotic excoriations of compulsive skin picking, then thing like that get trapped in the serum and scabs.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/1215/p1981.html

 

[Belfrey]

The pictures are not fake, but they do just seem to show stuff you find in dust, and hence on the skin. When people have neurotic excoriations of compulsive skin picking, then thing like that get trapped in the serum and scabs.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/1215/p1981.html

Exactly. And when it comes to claims such as that the crystal "grew legs", it appears more likely to me that some fibers got stuck to the object after she pulled it off of herself. Keeping in mind that the observer in question claims that if you put a fly with some fibers in a container and leave them in the freezer, you will eventually end up with two flies, I think that the methodological rigor can be called into question here.

 

[Oxymoron]

The pictures are not fake, but they do just seem to show stuff you find in dust, and hence on the skin. When people have neurotic excoriations of compulsive skin picking, then thing like that get trapped in the serum and scabs.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/1215/p1981.html

If they are not fake, it must be growing 'legs' because you can clearly see that is not 'just some fibre caught on it'.

 

[Oxymoron]

I find the apparent zeal to attribute these type of problems to some form of 'neurosis', as amazing.

There are many reasons which are far more likely causes.

i.e http://www.onlinedermclinic.com/archive/blastomycosis

http://www.txid.org/?page_id=23

• 
  [*=left]Acne and Rosacea
  [*=left]Autoimmune Skin Diseases: Discoid Lupus, Scleroderma, Dermatomyositis
  [*=left]Blistering Skin Diseases: Epidermolysis Bullosa, Pemphigus, and Pemphigoid
  [*=left]Dermatitis: Allergic Contact Dermatitis, Irritant Dermatitis
  [*=left]Eczema and Atopic Dermatitis
  [*=left]Fungal Infections, Dermatophytosis, Tinea Corporis, Tinea Pedis,
  [*=left]Hair Diseases: Alopecia, Male and Female Pattern Hair loss
  [*=left]Hyperhidrosis (excessive sweating)
  [*=left]Melasma and Skin Hyperpigmentation
  [*=left]Nail Diseases
  [*=left]Occupational Dermatoses (work-related skin diseases)
  [*=left]Pigmented Lesions and Moles (Nevi)
  [*=left]Psoriasis
  [*=left]Skin Allergy
  [*=left]Skin Cancer
  [*=left]Skin Rash
  [*=left]Vitiligo and other depigmentation disorders

Content from external source

 

[Mick West]

If they are not fake, it must be growing 'legs' because you can clearly see that is not 'just some fibre caught on it'.

How can you clearly see that? You see a photo of something that looks similar "on her skin", then you see a photo of something a week later. How do you know what happened in between?

I "little nanonbots" are growing legs, then it would be pretty easy to document. These two photos are not documentation, they are a claim without evidence. It looks like a sebum plug and some clothing fibers (dark cotton). Like this:


Source: https://picasaweb.google.com/morgellonswatch/NotMorgellons?fgl=true&pli=1

 

[Mick West]

I find the apparent zeal to attribute these type of problems to some form of 'neurosis', as amazing.

Neurotic excoriations is just one example, there are lots more. Dermatitis, diabetes, meth usage, menopause. Lots of different conditions give the same symptoms.

 

[HappyMonday]

I can't assume the pictures are not fake, there are too many questions. Fibers with serial numbers on them? Someone on FB recently posted a CLOUD that they said had "2 letters and a number". Sure enough, if you blew up the photo, it looked like it had a couple of letters and a number on it. You believe THAT?! Bugs that grow a leg after I yank it off? I'd google "skin parasites". I can assure you the last thing I would think if I found anything anywhere is some convoluted explanation such as "it's a nano bot that the government developed in a secret lab, built special spray planes, and hired pilots (or programmed to have robots fly) to spray it over my town in order to make my body a giant radio receiver in order to mind control me through a secret facility in Alaska that everyone knows about but only a select few know it's real use" or "it's a life form that the government developed in a secret lab, built special spray planes, and hired pilots (or programmed to have robots fly) to spray it over my town in order to infect me with a disease."

So funny an example of the logic, it's worth more than just a 'thanks'.

Bravo.

 

[lotek]

if it were nanobots you wouldnt be able to see them...... or pick them....

[...]

 

[Oxymoron]

How can you clearly see that? You see a photo of something that looks similar "on her skin", then you see a photo of something a week later. How do you know what happened in between?

I "little nanonbots" are growing legs, then it would be pretty easy to document. These two photos are not documentation, they are a claim without evidence. It looks like a sebum plug and some clothing fibers (dark cotton). Like this:


Source: https://picasaweb.google.com/morgellonswatch/NotMorgellons?fgl=true&pli=1

If it is accepted as 'not fake', i.e. 'truthfully represented', 'without manipulation'. Obviously it can be faked. We just went full circle.

 

[Mick West]

But I don't think it's fake. I think she's mistaken in her interpretation of what she saw.

 

[RolandD]

How often do you scrap a knuckle and not realize it? Scratched a mosquito bite in your sleep until it bled? If it scabbed over before you realized it, did you get a magnifying glass out and look at it? Most rational people don't, but if you did, there would be all sorts of fibers stuck to it.

As we get older, we are less likely it notice those minor nicks and dings when they occur and our skin becomes more fragile. Someone gets undressed to take a shower and notices several unexplained injuries, curious they examine them closer and find tiny fibers embedded in the scabs. A rational person says yuck, gets in the shower and scrubs up. A delusional person decides something has invaded their body and is growing out of them.

Also, as we get older many begin having skin problems. My mother has suffered from psoriasis for about eight years now and I am just getting over my first bout of eczema at 45. A couple of years ago, I had a systemic candida infection. It caused me to have very itchy, raw patches all over my body. It felt like something was crawling under my skin and new raw spots would appear in minutes. Sound familiar? One pill took care of it. Strangely enough, the labeling referred only to women.

Does this explain all examples of Morgellons? Of course not, I'm just trying to put forward a possible way it might begin for some people.

 

[Mick West]

There's a wide range of people who think they have Morgellons. Sadly a few of them "work" at their skin for several hours a day with a needle, tweezers or worse. But there's no single explanation to cover everyone with Morgellons, and it's a mistake many debunkers make, coming up with "maybe it's ...."

 

[RolandD]

There's a wide range of people who think they have Morgellons. Sadly a few of them "work" at their skin for several hours a day with a needle, tweezers or worse. But there's no single explanation to cover everyone with Morgellons, and it's a mistake many debunkers make, coming up with "maybe it's ...."

I absolutely agree. I wasn't trying to present a one stop answer, just presenting plausible possibilities. I will edit to reflect that.

 

[JRBids]

Ok, you think they are fake... fair enough, there are plenty of fake pictures around. It is disturbing that so many people would go to the trouble of faking them tho.

I didn't say I thought they were fake, I said I could not assume they AREN'T fake. I don't know if someone faked them or if someone just looked through an electron microscope and freaked out.

Yes but disregarding the 'last thing you would think', what would be the first thing that you thought... if you did find them in/on you? And what if it went on and on?

Same thing the guy above you said: Dust mites skin debris hair and clothing fibers.

 

[JRBids]

So funny an example of the logic, it's worth more than just a 'thanks'.

Bravo.

Don't thank me, thank Miss Carly, I'm sure I've seen all those "theories" on her page.

 

[lotek]

im not really sure why my assertion that [...] was flagged as offensive. i mean i do... but its seriously [...]

 

[Mick West]

im not really sure why my assertion that [...] was flagged as offensive. i mean i do... but its seriously [...]

It's the politeness policy, please read it.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/1224-Politeness-Policy

The goal of metabunk.org is honest debunking. Exposing and removing falsehoods. It has been my experience that being perceived as polite is very helpful when debunking. If someone feels that you are not being polite, or that you have in any way denigrated or belittled them, then they will start complaining about that instead of addressing your points, and will be far less likely to listen to you with an open mind. It also greatly effects the perception of more neutral readers, who respond similarly to the person being insulted.

So, please:

• Do not insult people either directly or indirectly
• Do not call them names, such as "stupid", "ignorant", "uneducated", or "liar"
• Do not describe their theory as "stupid", "moronic", "idiotic", "deluded", etc
• Do not suggest they get an education, or take some classes
• Do not criticize their spelling or grammar
• Do not respond to the tone of their post instead of the content
• Do not mock people, or make jokes at their expense
• Do not suggest they are mentally ill, or that they need help
• Do not suggest anyone who believes in [any particular theory] is mentally ill.

The above applies regardless of if it is true or not. If someone perceives something as rude, then it is impolite.

Instead, please:

• Show them where they are wrong
• Try to help them understand their misconceptions. Politely.
• Stick to the facts
• Ignore any insults that they might use
• Focus on individual key points, not the general tone

The above policy will be enforced. I will delete or edit posts that do not conform to it, and I will ban people who repeatedly violate it (initially for 24 hours, then for longer periods).

It will not be applied evenhandedly. Since censoring the bunk believers is often viewed as impolite and is hence counterproductive, then they will be given more leeway. Debunkers generally have far thicker skins. The bunk believers' insults do not help their case, and so it's not so important to remove them. I will still remove more extreme insults that would derail the conversation.

Threats of any kind will not be tolerated, and will likely lead to a ban.

Remember, this is not about politeness per se. It's about debunking. We are being polite so that the debunking is more effective, not to conform to some code of manners, and not to avoid hurting their feelings. The only goal here is honest debunking. Politeness just helps a lot.

I greatly appreciate your help with this. I know this is not for everyone, but there are many places on the internet where you can interact with bunk believers with no such restrictions. The politeness policy is the basis for the nature of Metabunk.org, and for this to remain the unique little debunking site it has become, the politeness policy needs to be observed.

Thank you,

Mick West

Thank you.

 

[JRBids]

Speaking of Morgellons. Here is a controlled scientific experiment. /sarcasm off

Leaving the lint roller outside all night and in the morning -- viola!-- a lint roller with nano morgellons fibers!

 

[Mick West]

Fibers are everywhere:
http://morgellonswatch.com/2006/04/11/fibers-are-everywhere/

 

[lotek]

Mick i read about half your site when you sent me the msg earlier. the comments... i dont know how you... i cant take this level of.... so on a final note, i present you with:

http://conniehwangdesign.com/proj_artmuseum.php

http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/oddities/videos/oddities-dust-museum.htm

 

[lotek]

this detritus is being touted as peer reviewed proof....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257881/

 

[Mick West]

this detritus is being touted as peer reviewed proof....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257881/

Stricker (one of the authors there) is obsessed by Chronic Lyme. He runs a clinic in San Francisco that specialized in diagnosing it, and then selling patients expensive course of antibiotics that their insurance does not cover, because they have not been shown to be useful. He once had a paper retracted for faking evidence.

http://relative-risk.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-quackery-for-chronic-lyme.html

 

[Sjacco]

My first post on metabunk. I am Sjacco Stienstra from The Netherlands (near Leeuwarden). English is not my mother tongue, so please excuse my mistakes.
Whatever I am going to type, I guess that you would like to have proof. I have those things/morgellons in my body for a few years now.
Can I give you a proof? No.
But I can show the same things (like the others on the internet) recorded with a simple microscoop or I can send a sample to a person who is interested - Those things that I isolate from my body using a mixture of coconut oil and olive oil with a few drops of juniperus oxycedrus and Trachyspermum ammi. I can only do this (else there will be nothing to isolate, except for the 'normal' things) when I have that intense pain on those spots where I get my samples. Mostly from mucous membranes of the ureter and tear ducts.
Til now I cannot manage to get a serious 'official' research done.
I can only tell that with using magnets (poles the way they attract each other) it seems I can destroy some or at least 'open' them. It seems there are bacteria and fungi in the fibres - or what ever you'd like to call them-, because I can cause an inflammation on demand that way. I go to the doctor, a test and indeed: inflammation... No problem for me to get antibiotics prescribed (Imagine how my intestines are)
Again, I just cannot find the right help… I can ensure you that what regular doctors here in the Netherlands give me in an attempt to help, ALWAYS results in the opposite when it comes to morgellons. For me it always got much worse. Now I am trying to help myself and I am getting a bit better. Bit by bit.

 

[Mattnik]

Welcome.

What have the Doctors you've visited suggested is the cause?

 

[HappyMonday]

Those things that I isolate from my body using a mixture of coconut oil and olive oil with a few drops of juniperus oxycedrus and Trachyspermum ammi.

Welcome.

This is a very specific recipe for isolation of the things in question. How did you arrive at it?

 

[Mick West]

Quick point regarding Morgellons: We are not doctors. We don't know anything about the particular conditions of the people who think they have Morgellons. So please don't attempt to diagnose, or offer medical advice.

The only advice I give to people who think they have Morgellons is to try to work with their doctor(s). The doctor wants to make you better, and while they may disagree with you as to the cause of the symptoms, at least they will be able to treat the symptoms. Remember a very large percentage of symptoms, especial skin symptoms, are "idiopathic" - meaning they have no obvious cause. So treating the symptoms is always a good idea, even if you don't know what causes them.

Many people with Morgellons have very complex and personal theories about it. It is not really productive in a broader sense to attempt to debunk the theories of any one individual, and in my experience it is very rare for it to help that individual.

 

[Brandon]

I just discovered this site today, and then I heard about chemtrails for the first time and then Morgellons, also for the first time. This is fascinating stuff. You couldn't make something like this-- wait... you can make stuff like this up. Anyway, from my limited perspective, I'm guessing this is the place chemtrails met Morgellons. Am I right or am I right, or am I right?

 

[Mick West]

I just discovered this site today, and then I heard about chemtrails for the first time and then Morgellons, also for the first time. This is fascinating stuff. You couldn't make something like this-- wait... you can make stuff like this up. Anyway, from my limited perspective, I'm guessing this is the place chemtrails met Morgellons. Am I right or am I right, or am I right?

No.

http://rense.com/general71/mmor.htm

 

[lotek]

Oh god how have i not seen that before... so much win.

 

[JRBids]

I'm sorry, I just got to the part where he says to dig a nice dry "buger" out of your nose.

 

[lotek]

all the unique repeating color patterns bits and soft metal fragments make me think this person has a kewl pyrotechnic hobby involving not so homemade products and a faulty blast shield.

/aimless speculation

could also work in an old tyme comic book shop.

 

[Brandon]

Mick, you're on the money on chemtrails, but since I registered I read a lot of what you wrote, and you're twice as insane as people who think they have Morgellans. To believe so wholeheartedly in the honesty and intentions of governments, as you do, you would have to do more than ignore scientific evidence, you would have to ignore 90% of human history. You should stay here and debunk chemtrails, because when you try your hand at government and what you like to call the NWO, you're in the group of people who think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. You're a magic bullet believer, essentially, and that's not the side logic favors. Governments are actually restrictive and controlling by nature, and our EPA really does want to confine humanity to walking and riding bikes inside 'high density living areas'. I know this is the wrong thread, but I'm rebellious.

 

[Mick West]

To believe so wholeheartedly in the honesty and intentions of governments, as you do,

But I don't.

I'm just against bunk.