Michael Hastings Death Brings About Conspiracy Theories, Reporter's Deadly Car Crash,

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
Nice job by this reporter! "You talk about a high speed chase....I mean a high speed car crash...." Conspiracy theorists will be all over that like a rash.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
http://www.infowars.com/michael-hastings-assassinated-for-work-uncovering-surveillance-state/

http://www.infowars.com/evidence-indicates-michael-hastings-was-assassinated/




“No matter how you slice this particular pie, a Mercedes is not just going to explode into flames without a little assistance,” writes freelance journalist Jim Stone. “Car fires in new cars happen for three main reasons — running the engine out of oil, or running the engine out of coolant, or after an absolutely huge car mangling accident, having the hot side of the battery short out against the frame before it reaches the fuse panel. And for all 3 of those normal reasons, which account for virtually all car fires in modern cars, the fire would have started in the engine compartment, progressed slowly, and scorched the hell out of the paint before ever reaching the gas tank. That clean paint is the be all tell all, Michael Hastings was murdered, and the rest is detail.”
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Just because the car exploded from the rear (as they surmise) is not an indication of a bomb. Of course infowars is only exploring one possibility. Given the increased frequency of recalls in newer cars, I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if it was due to a defect.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
r after an absolutely huge car mangling accident, having the hot side of the battery short out against the frame before it reaches the fuse panel. And for all 3 of those normal reasons, which account for virtually all car fires in modern cars, the fire would have started in the engine compartment, progressed slowly, and scorched the hell out of the paint before ever reaching the gas tank.
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My battery is in the trunk next to the spare tire.
 
J

Joe

Guest
The engine ripped was out of the car Im sure the fuel pump cutoff or Inertia switch which usually activates in rear end collisions was never activated and most of the fuel was forced out of the tank at at least 50 psi . like a flame thrower . I doubt it was anything other then a accident .
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/06/michael_hastings_crash_engine.php
Conspiracy theorists who have trained their Twitter accounts on the death of journalist Michael Hastings often seem to focus on the fact that engine in the Mercedes he crashed landed several yards away. In fact we learned through traffic investigators that the motor landed about 100 feet away. Unusual? Bizarre? Unheard of?
Not so much:
While it doesn't happen every day, it happens. And let us say here that the concentric circles between online conspiracy theorists and car guys seem to have little overlap if the knowledge being displayed about cars in the Hastings case is any indication.

There are numerous examples of engines flying out of cars in high-speed crashes.

He did find the fire in Hastings Tuesday morning crash on Highland Avenue near Melrose Avenue a little unusual. Dill said that the crash should have triggered an emergency gas cutoff in such a modern car. "There shouldn't have been a fire," he said.



He said of flying motors, "You don't see that very often." But, he added:
I have seen it a few times, usually in the higher speed crashes and freeway crashes.​
He also told us previously, counter to what Dill says, that it's logical a fire would erupt after a motor detaches from the vehicle:

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Mackdog

Senior Member.
I still don't quite know what to think about this incident, after all there was somewhat of a motive to kill him. But I found some evidence of engines flying out of cars after high speed accidents. The engine being 50 feet from the car after the impact looks to be the best evidence for a conspiracy to kill him.

http://www.vancouverite.com/2011/12/08/engine-flies-out-of-car-as-calgary-crash-kills-young-man/

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f25/engine-flying-out-during-accident-380006/

http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=789985#.UcfOo9jDmSo

http://www.businessinsider.com/majo...na-sends-engine-flying-into-the-stands-2013-2
 

Sithich

New Member
He outed a General, whom commands a bunch of misfits that kill people for a living. Journalist executions are common. I like how this saves as I type, great to know. You guys block people from posting and spy on (or at least can spy on) what is being typed by anyone in this box. But that's an old, common feature. You can always tell the validity of a forum by whether it's open, or it's not.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
I like how this saves as I type, great to know. You guys block people from posting and spy on (or at least can spy on) what is being typed by anyone in this box. But that's an old, common feature. You can always tell the validity of a forum by whether it's open, or it's not.

Is this the same stuff that users are typing in order to post it to a forum which indexes to Google?

As a new user, your first few posts are moderated, which means somebody like me has to approve them before they appear. This avoids spam and unpleasantness.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
...

As a new user, your first few posts are moderated, which means somebody like me has to approve them before they appear. This avoids spam and unpleasantness.

But not paranoia of special persecution from those determined to see it in everything.

Jesus. Nobody cares about you Sithich. (except Jesus).
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
But not paranoia of special persecution from those determined to see it in everything.

Jesus. Nobody cares about you Sithich. (except Jesus).

If nobody cares... why spend billions surveilling him and everyone else that 'nobody' cares about. Why is Snowden being hunted and persecuted when no one cares? Oxymoron?
 

solrey

Senior Member.
And why exactly do you ask this question, (which appears to be a variant of the stock question 'is x an expert in y matter'.?

Please explain why this is such a common question on debunkers lips.

Because that "freelance journalist" is reaching conclusions about a subject for which they have zero understanding, training or expertise. I think most mechanics, such as myself, or anyone experienced in the aftermath of high speed accidents will tell you that this "freelance journalist" Jim Stone doesn't know what he's talking about.

Car Experts on Michael Hastings' Crash: No Reason to Suspect Foul Play

“If someone is driving at high speed and hits a very solid object, yeah, you’ll get a fire out of that,” Kennerly says. “It wouldn’t be an underestimation to say that every day, a lawsuit is filed over a car fire right after an accident. There are every year 300,000 vehicle fires and a couple hundred deaths and a couple thousand injuries.”

Frank Markus, technical director of Motor Trend, points out that “any impact at speeds high enough to rip the drive train out of a car is highly likely to force some object to rupture the fuel tank. There is a lot of potential chemical energy in a gas tank that's even a quarter full. Getting up to such speeds -- providing he didn't start a cold engine and floor the car into that tree -- results in a lot of red hot parts, particularly the catalytic converter and other exhaust system parts.”
A car’s interior, Kennerly says, is particularly flammable.
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I'll take my own extensive experience as an aircraft and automotive mechanic, and the expert opinions of other knowledgeable technicians over those of a "freelance journalist" any day.

Fires caused by high speed crashes are unfortunately quite common...

21-Year-Old Lakeside Man Killed in Fiery High-Speed Crash

Driver Killed in High-Speed Car Crash, Fire

Man killed in fiery high-speed wreck north of Napa

Police: Speed, alcohol likely factors in fiery SUV crash
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
If nobody cares... why spend billions surveilling him and everyone else that 'nobody' cares about. Why is Snowden being hunted and persecuted when no one cares? Oxymoron?

Oh come on Oxy, he's making an insinuation that the mods of metabunk deliberately autosave draft copies of what someone's writing, just so they can collect the damning script someone was about to post but decided against?
Do you really think anyone gives a shit? It's a fucking automatic feature of the software. To accuse them of snooping for this reason or the fact that new posts take longer to approve is psych-ward grade delusional.
I know I have seen enough of Oxymoron's reasoning habits to really not care what he writes.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
http://rt.com/usa/michael-hastings-cyber-car-218/
Kinda just skimmed through this one till I found this gem...
"I'm not a conspiracy guy. In fact, I've spent most of my life knocking down conspiracy theories," he said. "But my rule has always been you don't knock down a conspiracy theory until you can prove it [wrong]. And in the case of Michael Hastings, what evidence is available publicly is consistent with a car cyberattack. And the problem with that is you can't prove it."
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Providing that the engine is still relatively intact, I think any evidence of tampering with the PCM or anything of that nature would be left behind. The evidence that is publicly available is also consistent with malfunction, it seems really far fetched to even suggest that idea IMO.
 

xenon

Active Member
Now here's a real "journalist" (Hello David Gregory)

Michael Hastings shines on Petraeus analysis. Piers Morgan flacks for CNN blindly


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3eKaXVe-7A


Michael Hastings Rips Obama Drone Speech


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaehlN8Cbj4

His last article:

Why Democrats Love To Spy On Americans

Besides Senators Ron Wyden and Mark Udall, most Democrats abandoned their civil liberty positions during the age of Obama. With a new leak investigation looming, the Democrat leadership are now being forced to confront all the secrets


For most bigwig Democrats in Washington, D.C., the last 48 hours has delivered news of the worst kind — a flood of new information that has washed away any lingering doubts about where President Obama and his party stand on civil liberties, full stop.

Glenn Greenwald’s exposure of the NSA’s massive domestic spy program has revealed the entire caste of current Democratic leaders as a gang of civil liberty opportunists, whose true passion, it seems, was in trolling George W. Bush for eight years on matters of national security.

“Everyone should just calm down,” Senator Harry Reid said yesterday, inhaling slowly.

That’s right: don’t panic.

The very topic of Democratic two-facedness on civil liberties is one of the most important issues that Greenwald has covered. Many of those Dems — including the sitting President Barack Obama, Senator Carl Levin, and Sec. State John Kerry — have now become the stewards and enhancers of programs that appear to dwarf any of the spying scandals that broke during the Bush years, the very same scandals they used as wedge issues to win elections in the Congressional elections 2006 and the presidential primary of 2007-2008.

Recall what Senator Levin told CNN in 2005, demanding to “urgently hold an inquiry” into what was supposedly President Bush’s domestic wiretap program.

Levin continued, at length: “It means that there’s some growing concern on Capitol Hill about a program which seems to be so totally unauthorized and unexplained…The president wraps himself in the law, saying that it is totally legal, but he doesn’t give what the legal basis is for this. He avoided using the law, which we provided to the president, where even when there is an emergency and there’s a need for urgent action can first tap the wire and then go to a court.” -----snip----
MORE>>>
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mhastings/why-democrats-love-to-spy-on-americans


Excerpt from his book The Operators:

"I was standing outside the circle.

Dave came up to me. “You’re not going to fuck us, are you?”

I answered what I always answer: “I’m going to write a story; some of the stuff you’ll like, some of the stuff you probably won’t like.”

Jake came up to me. “We’ll hunt you down and kill you if we don’t like what you write,” he said. “C. will hunt you down and kill you.”'
http://leaksource.wordpress.com/201...hael-hastings-the-operators-re-death-threats/


http://www.amazon.com/The-Operators-Terrifying-Americas-Afghanistan/dp/0452298962/

31e839147c0e0e821a85fc87e97bd231a2a0fd49.jpg
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Researchers Show How a Car’s Electronics Can Be Taken Over Remotely http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/business/10hack.html?_r=0

The problem with such an approach is that there's a very low chance of it actually working, especially in an urban environment. The most likely outcome is a fairly low speed impact into the car in front. Given that the most likely outcome would be a still-alive person who would then then report how the car seemed to have been taken over, and the traces such an attack would leave in the cellular system, then why on earth would people risk such a thing?

He was driving a new (presumably 2013) Mercedes C250. If it were possible to take over a control this car, then people will be able to figure this out and expose it. Again, far too much of a risk for someone to do.

It seems far more likely that it was just a young guy going too fast in a new car.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This comment on the ibtimes story illustrates some of the problems with this idea:

http://www.ibtimes.com/michael-hast...explain-suspicious-death-richard-clarke-says#
RJCalendar 21 hours ago
Car-Hackers Checklist:
1. Isolate remote contact with the correct car without accessing TeleAid (the Krauts definitely will detect you if you mess with their satellite)
2. Do a practical test to confirm the scheme is operational, while avoiding detection
3. Shut down TeleAid at the automobile point so victim can't communicate that the car is out of control
4. Disable horn so victim can't continuously sound it and alert witnesses
5. Disable brakes as they are more than powerful enough to quickly stop the car even with the engine at full race
6. Cause the aforementioned engine to race
7.Lock the shift lever in drive or the victim will simply shift into neutral or into a lower gear; either action will dramatically slow the vehicle
8. Disable the high/low headlight control so the victim can't signal distress
9. Lock all doors so the victim can't escape when the sudden acceleration ensues
10.Disable the air bags in case the victim has a premature collision that might otherwise not be fatal
11. Time all tampering so the vehicle is not in heavy traffic, or the result will be a bent fender
12. Leave no trace that any of these actions was taken
13. Contact a good criminal attorney because Mercedes' tech guys will still find you, especially if you messed with TeleAid like I told you not to.
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mynym

Banned
Banned
Now here's a real "journalist" (Hello David Gregory)

I doubt that Hastings was killed but every investigative journalist should strive to create suspicions in the event of their death. (I.e. it's unlikely that there would be many conspiracy theories about David Gregory and others even if their deaths could be imagined to be suspicious. After all, given how thoroughly they've been incorporated into current power structures and so forth... who within the structure would supposedly want to kill them?)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I doubt that Hastings was killed but every investigative journalist should strive to create suspicions in the event of their death. (I.e. it's unlikely that there would be many conspiracy theories about David Gregory and others even if their deaths could be imagined to be suspicious. After all, given how thoroughly they've been incorporated into current power structures and so forth... who within the structure would supposedly want to kill them?)

There are plenty of conspiracy theories about Tim Russert:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tim+russert+conspiracy
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Statistically speaking the accidental death of any one individual is unlikely, however it's inevitable that SOME people are going to die in accidents. Out of all males aged 45-54 in the US, about 13,800 will die from accidents this year, or about 63 per 100,000, or approx 1 in ever 1,500
(Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_06.pdf page 20, Table 1)

So depending one how wide you cast the description of "troublesome investigator", you're going to expect a few accidental deaths in the group every so often.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
To say that the car was remotely controlled is a massive leap.

Do we know of any previous instance when:

  • a car's computer was hacked into to cause a fatal accident? No.
  • a factory car was controlled by remote? No.
  • a car had been secretly modified to allow control by remote? No.
  • a young guy drove too fast in a new car got in an accident and died? Yes, plenty.
  • a fault in assembly or mechanical failure as caused a fatal crash? Yes, plenty.
  • a car caught fire after a crash? Yes, plenty.
  • a car's engine ejected from the chassis? Yes, a few.


I know there are firsts for everything and yeah, the circumstances do seem suspicious, and I strongly feel that there should be an investigation into this matter, but we really need to look at the more logical possible scenarios before we leap into stuff that will be very difficult to prove either way.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I wonder if that happens more now that engines are cast from aluminum instead of cast iron? That makes a huge weight difference.
 

xenon

Active Member
Michael Hastings Crash Investigation Heats Up, Police and Fire Told Not to comment!
San Diego 6 -- Kimberly Dvorak's Investigative Report On Michael Hastings "Crash"
Crash scene defies laws of physics as engine block found behind the car
Published on Jul 7, 2013


youtu.be /KHIucZCrJKg
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
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