Mass obscure patterns in redding leading to cloudy skies.

Igrokush1

Member
Can the fellow debunkers please help with Redding, CA. Sunday May 10th from 10am til about 1:00pm the sky was completely filled with contrails patterns resembling a boomerang, in directions of N,S,E,W. Along with the famous cross cross and tic tac toe patterns. We counted nearly 30+ contrails. The ones that I found most interesting were those that you could follow, making a boomerang shape and coming back to origin. I will attempt to post a pic but have reception issues so it takes awhile. The flight app I still don't have.
:(

image.jpg
 
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MikeC

Closed Account
Well there's a lot of a/c go over Redding - including this odd flight path - which is probably an inaccurately registered transmitter -

Untitled.jpg

I had a look at about 1 hr of playback and there were a few flightpath changes that might be your boomerang - which way were you facing?
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The ones that I found most interesting were those that you could follow, making a boomerang shape and coming back to origin. I will attempt to post a pic but have reception issues so it takes awhile. The flight app I still don't have.
:(


While that looks like quite a sharp angle, it's probably no more than ten degrees. The effect of perspective foreshortening greatly increases the perceived angle. There's a great example here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/id...l-near-seattle-private-jet-at-41-000-ft.3881/
Where this trail, whch looks like a right angle

Was just this quite small change in direction:

 

Igrokush1

Member
Can the fellow debunkers please help with Redding, CA. Sunday May 10th from 10am til about 1:00pm the sky was completely filled with contrails patterns resembling a boomerang, in directions of N,S,E,W. Along with the famous cross cross and tic tac toe patterns. We counted nearly 30+ contrails. The ones that I found most interesting were those that you could follow, making a boomerang shape and coming back to origin. I will attempt to post a pic but have reception issues so it takes awhile. The flight app I still don't have.
:(
Well there's a lot of a/c go over Redding - including this odd flight path - which is probably an inaccurately registered transmitter -

Untitled.jpg

I had a lok at about 1 hr of playback and hter were a few flightpath changes that might be your boomerang - which way were you facing?
I was facing all directions at 11:30am and everywhere I looked I saw the boomerang patterns accompanied by tic tac toes. I have pics I took. Also I viewed your flight path, and on it there is only one plane above redding. Anyways, we(neighbors, friends, family, store owners) watched every single contrail converge into one another creating a mass overcast above. Really, it looked like cloud seeding. I have quite a few pics of the before/after. I'm not hung up on the 'spraying' and chemtrail thing but this was strange. We all thought so in a city where everyone is not a conspiracy theorist. I'm just looking for a logical explanation.
 

Igrokush1

Member
image.jpg As far as the eye can see, every direction. They all grew together and made the blue sky grey, which stayed all day:( wished it rained in this drought ridden region. The worst drought in over 100 years according to the news.
 

Auldy

Senior Member.
I was facing all directions at 11:30am and everywhere I looked I saw the boomerang patterns accompanied by tic tac toes.

If you wan't help identifying the contrail from your first picture it would really help if you knew which direction you were facing. Looks like you are at a gas station, if you don't know what direction you were facing, maybe share with us the address of the gas station so we can look it up on google maps?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
IAlso I viewed your flight path, and on it there is only one plane above redding.

There were a lot of aircraft passing withing 20km either side of Redding - which is about where some of your contrails appear to be - eg distance in miles:




Anyways, we(neighbors, friends, family, store owners) watched every single contrail converge into one another creating a mass overcast above. Really, it looked like cloud seeding.

No it didn't.
Cloud seeing is "sprrying" substances into clouds that already exist to make it rain.

And it does not involve long white trails at all.

What you saw was the creation of cirrus from contrails - something that has been seen happening for 70 years or more -

And from the book “Flight To Arras” by Antoine de Saint Exupery, written in 1942 about a military mission in 1940:
Exuperry was killed in 1944 - so certainly can't be part of any modern conspiracy!!!

I have quite a few pics of the before/after. I'm not hung up on the 'spraying' and chemtrail thing but this was strange. We all thought so in a city where everyone is not a conspiracy theorist. I'm just looking for a logical explanation.

No problem - you have seen aircraft making contrails in a layer of ice-saturated atmosphere, and those contrails then cause more ice to nucleate out of the atmosphere creating a layer of cirrus cloiud.
 

Chew

Senior Member.
If you wan't help identifying the contrail from your first picture it would really help if you knew which direction you were facing.

GasBuddy to the rescue! Phillips 76, $3.57 a gallon for regular, cash.

http://www.californiagasprices.com/...dding&site=California&station=76&tme_limit=36

He was looking to the northeast (it is a Valero station in Google Maps, not a 76.)

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.588...!1e1!3m2!1sE2cwzcH7HykGBL5_PPXrTw!2e0!6m1!1e1


Screencap for posterity:
gasbuddy.png
 
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Igrokush1

Member
That particular photo I was facing east
If you wan't help identifying the contrail from your first picture it would really help if you knew which direction you were facing. Looks like you are at a gas station, if you don't know what direction you were facing, maybe share with us the address of the gas station so we can look it up on google maps?
 

Igrokush1

Member
Dang chew, you're good! I just actually posted the direction too. My point in this is, that is just one photo, when facing west, north and south I saw similar contrails. And the person who posted the pink lined pic around Seattle was right in showing a boomerang 'shape' however what I meant is that the contrails 'actually boomeranged' meaning they came back from the origin. I just don't understand how so many trails all join together and make the whole sky grey. If you were a local here, believe me this is most uncommon.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
this is most uncommon

Basically it'a function of the weather. You know how on some days the weather is odd? Like, one some days it's really windy, or it rains a lot, or it's really hot. Days with unusual weather don't happen very often, but you still get them several times a year.

Days when you get tens of contrails covering the sky and they spread out to form a think layers are just days when the weather (at 30,000+ feet) is just right to form persistent contrails at multiple altitudes over a wide area. It's not something that happens every day, just like it does not rain hard every day, and it's not really windy every day.

So all you are seeing is the normal air traffic made visible by a very large and deep layer of contrail-supporting air (ice supersaturated air). There's a lot of air traffic over that region. Here's a extensive discussion of this traffic:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-only-four-airliner-flights-day-over-mt-shasta-ca.622/
 

Igrokush1

Member
And for each photo, can you also post the exact time and date it was taken?
For sure Mick. They were all from today, and the first pic was nearly 11:35, I just got out of the drive thru Mexican place at that gas station on old Alturas road, the second pic was at 12:00 roughly, the grey sky pic was at 5:30pm, after I saw ALL the contrails join one another in a mass of grey. I decided to give it some hours after 1:00 to see if it would clear up but it stayed until nightfall. I was outside from 10:30am-12:30pm, that's when I witnessed 30+ contrails in the sky. We know flight paths up here are indeed common, but on a volume that large they are most uncommon. In the second pic if you look past the immediate contrail bulk off towards the horizon, you will see what they become. The trails from earlier already formed into a hazy sky.
 

Igrokush1

Member
For sure Mick. They were all from today, and the first pic was nearly 11:35, I just got out of the drive thru Mexican place at that gas station on old Alturas road, the second pic was at 12:00 roughly, the grey sky pic was at 5:30pm, after I saw ALL the contrails join one another in a mass of grey. I decided to give it some hours after 1:00 to see if it would clear up but it stayed until nightfall. I was outside from 10:30am-12:30pm, that's when I witnessed 30+ contrails in the sky. We know flight paths up here are indeed common, but on a volume that large they are most uncommon. In the second pic if you look past the immediate contrail bulk off towards the horizon, you will see what they become. The trails from earlier already formed into a hazy sky.
For sure Mick. They were all from today, and the first pic was nearly 11:35, I just got out of the drive thru Mexican place at that gas station on old Alturas road, the second pic was at 12:00 roughly, the grey sky pic was at 5:30pm, after I saw ALL the contrails join one another in a mass of grey. I decided to give it some hours after 1:00 to see if it would clear up but it stayed until nightfall. I was outside from 10:30am-12:30pm, that's when I witnessed 30+ contrails in the sky. We know flight paths up here are indeed common, but on a volume that large they are most uncommon. In the second pic if you look past the immediate contrail bulk off towards the horizon, you will see what they become. The trails from earlier already formed into a hazy sky.
I wouldn't consider today 'normal' air traffic, even the other guy said it was heavy in a recent post. I see the air traffic here on a daily basis, and this was indeed out of the ordinary. I mean, I haven't been on the site in awhile, and the last date I saw anything remotely close to this was on November 8th, 2014. I'll still get around to that days pics. I've seen the sky on a daily basis since that date, and to see it again today urged me to report, haha. Plus, we definitely DO NOT see planes boomerang in circles every day. The first pic indicates the curve, that curve goes around the sky and comes back. I wish I would have taken a video. That would show why I called it a boomerang pattern:)
 

Igrokush1

Member
Yes, the forecast as a result of 30+ uncommonly sequenced contrails joining together resulting in a complete grey sky mass, I agree.. It's like.. You gotta see it to believe it man..
The forecast for Redding matches that explanation extremely well:

redding forecast.png
 

Igrokush1

Member
That was a cool read chew. I felt the part that said 'slightly contaminated' should have been highlighted, haha, since people do think there are contaminates exuding out of planes, lol!
Also it said the many trails form together into one cloud mass is a sign of weather change.. Strange, but old sailor tales can be strange but true. I must admit that's the most logical explanation so far... Except for the mass volume in this area, that's for sure irregular.
Here is a great explanation of what you witnessed:
Practical short range cloud reading.jpg
 

Chew

Senior Member.
One way to tell if there were an unusual number of flights is to compare the number of flights from previous days. Here is flightradar24 centered on Redding set to playback starting at 10 am local (17:00 UTC) for Saturday:

http://www.flightradar24.com/2015-05-09/17:00/48x/40.64,-122.45/9

If you click on the gear in the upper right you can set a filter to only show aircraft above 30,000 feet.

The distance scale is at the bottom right. Keep in mind an airliner at 35,000 feet that is 10° above the horizon is about 60 km away. Burney to the northeast is 70 km away. I watched the playback from 10 am to 12 pm and I counted 20 airliners passing within 60 km to the east of Redding.
 
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MikeC

Closed Account
No problem - you have seen aircraft making contrails in a layer of ice-saturated atmosphere, and those contrails then cause more ice to nucleate out of the atmosphere creating a layer of cirrus cloiud.

What was it about this post you disliked?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I wouldn't consider today 'normal' air traffic, even the other guy said it was heavy in a recent post.

You need to look at FR24 for Redding - it is busy airspace - there are probably a dozen aircraft in sight at any time in a clear day.
 

Igrokush1

Member
I didn't see a layer of cirrus cloud, I saw 30+ contrails blend into grey matter, so I didn't like your explanation. I did however like chew's article about a possible change of weather. Also, a dozen or so isn't even remotely close to thirty or so that I could count in all directions N,S,E,W in a single sitting. In the one pic I took from only ONE direction you can count well over a dozen. Now do the math Mike, let's add the other directions I could possibly face. Hmmm, yep, definitely over 30. Chew- your lore reference was also an enjoying read!
What was it about this post you disliked?
 

Igrokush1

Member
Once again chew, I give it up to you. Good skills! I completely agree, you found those 20 to the east. Now as I stated, I saw to the N,S,W the same volume. That surely shows my 30+ claim is accurate, and not the typical volume in my town. Also, I enjoyed the historical 'lore' reference you posted :) thanks!
One way to tell if there were an unusual number of flights is to compare the number of flights from previous days. Here is flightradar24 centered on Redding set to playback starting at 10 am local (17:00 UTC) for Saturday:

http://www.flightradar24.com/2015-05-09/17:50/48x/40.64,-122.45/9

If you click on the gear in the upper right you can set a filter to only show aircraft above 30,000 feet.

The distance scale is at the bottom right. Keep in mind an airliner at 35,000 feet that is 10° above the horizon is about 60 km away. Burney to the northeast is 70 km away. I watched the playback from 10 am to 12 pm and I counted 20 airliners passing within 60 km to the east of Redding.
 

Igrokush1

Member

Auldy

Senior Member.
If you wan't help identifying the contrail from your first picture it would really help if you knew which direction you were facing. Looks like you are at a gas station, if you don't know what direction you were facing, maybe share with us the address of the gas station so we can look it up on google maps?


What was it about this post you disliked?


likewise with mine...
 

Henk001

Senior Member.
I didn't see a layer of cirrus cloud, I saw 30+ contrails blend into grey matter, so I didn't like your explanation. I did however like chew's article about a possible change of weather. Also, a dozen or so isn't even remotely close to thirty or so that I could count in all directions N,S,E,W in a single sitting. In the one pic I took from only ONE direction you can count well over a dozen. Now do the math Mike, let's add the other directions I could possibly face. Hmmm, yep, definitely over 30. Chew- your lore reference was also an enjoying read!
That grey matter is called cirrostratus.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
OK, well one of the problems is, when you DON'T see trails, you may easily assume that the planes are not there.
I just did some playback on FR24 zoomed in on Redding so the screen edges were about 25km away.
Between 17:00 UTC (should be 10am Cali time) and 19:30 UTC on the 10th, with playback speed on 72X I counted 42 aircraft at least as big as a Dash 8 (didn;t check height) within that distance.

On the 9th, it was about 48, and on the 8th, it was about 52, on the 7th it was 50.
So this seems like a perfectly normal level of air traffic.

The most distant of the trails you see on the OP Photo are easily more like 35 MILES away than 25km. So there is a LOT of air traffic that could easily account for the number of trails you saw if the weather conditions were right.
Well there's a lot of a/c go over Redding - including this odd flight path - which is probably an inaccurately registered transmitter -

Untitled.jpg

I had a look at about 1 hr of playback and there were a few flightpath changes that might be your boomerang - which way were you facing?
This plane appears to be Military. It registers on FR24 as GOTOFMS with no extra information but tracing its track back, it appears to have started from Travis AFB.
 

jonnyH

Senior Member.
I wouldn't consider today 'normal' air traffic, even the other guy said it was heavy in a recent post. I see the air traffic here on a daily basis, and this was indeed out of the ordinary
But how much of the air traffic that is in the sky above you do you actually see?

Remember that even if its right above you a jet a cruising altitude is still about 30,000ft (6miles) away. If its not leaving a trail how easy it going to be to see it? It certainly wont be as noticeable as jet leaving a long contrail. How many miles away would a jet leaving no trail have to be before it becomes impossible to see with the naked eye? In this thread there are pictures of jets with contrails that are up to 185 miles away, the planes responsible are not visible at all, you only know they are there because of the contrails.

On a clear day where the weather is not conducive to contrail formation you can only see a fraction of the air traffic in the skies above you. On days when you are completely surrounded by cold, humid skies you can see pretty much everything between you and the horizon because the contrails point them out.
 
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JRBids

Senior Member.
Do you still think that many flights that day as unusual? Cause I don't fly much, but I just booked a flight from LaGuardia to Raleigh (I realize it's on the other side of the country) and Delta and American both have pretty regular flights all day everyday, every couple of hours. It looks like a bus schedule. I have to assume there are other parts of the country with regular flights from points A to B, daily.
 

tadaaa

Senior Member
But how much of the air traffic that is in the sky above you do you actually see?

Remember that even if its right above you a jet a cruising altitude is still about 30,000ft (6miles) away. If its not leaving a trail how easy it going to be to see it? It certainly wont be as noticeable as jet leaving a long contrail. How many miles away would a jet leaving no trail have to be before it becomes impossible to see with the naked eye? In this thread there are pictures of jets with contrails that are up to 185 miles away, the planes responsible are not visible at all, you only know they are there because of the contrails.

On a clear day where the weather is not conducive to contrail formation you can only see a fraction of the air traffic in the skies above you. On days when you are completely surrounded by cold, humid skies you can see pretty much everything between you and the horizon because the contrails point them out.

also if you do happen to catch a highflying jet with your naked eye, if you loose it only for a fraction of a second, it is almost impossible to re-focus on it again - even when you know roughly where in the sky it is
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Once again I really do recommend the FlightRadar24 app if you have a smartphone. Takes all the guesswork out of identifying those planes!

This was yesterday evening. Lots of trails spreading out into cirrus. Normal commercial flights.

image.jpg
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
I wouldn't say that. Sunday is actually lower than most other days.
My initial thought, too, was "Because so much air travel is business related, wouldn't M-F be highest?"

but this graphic--re. June--makes me wonder if summer months differ significantly from rest of the year,
or if regions matter much. For instance, a friend just booked a flight to West Yellowstone (WYS) for July
--on a weekend, incidentally--and it got me thinking that, since the western entrance to Yellowstone isn't
even open half the year, that particular airport probably has weird traffic numbers...

(unfortunately, the site http://www.farecompare.com/news/cheapest-day-us-canada-flights/
that ran that 2010 graphic doesn't appear to have any way to search for more specific info)



ETA: Ha-ha! According to Wikipedia, WYS Airport is "...only open from June through September..." :p
 
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skephu

Senior Member.
I wouldn't consider today 'normal' air traffic
When conditions are right for persistent contrails to form, the contrails can last several hours. In that case, many of the contrails you see originate from airplanes that flew by several hours before, possibly so distant from you (even hundreds of miles) that you didn't even have the chance to see it. Then its contrail drifted over your area, driven by the winds.
 

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