Luis Elizondo's Claims of Coming UFO Disclosure
- Thread starter Ann K
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NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
It's hard to say when no one is exactly sure what he's basing his claims on. Claiming the US government has UFOs and aliens is at this point an unsubstantiated claim, but we can't say it's a lie as we don't know what he knows. IF there is a government UFO program as he describes it, then obviously not. IF he knows full well nothing like that exists and he's just saying it does for money or fame or whatever, then yes.
However, there is a big grey area in between. IF he's saying false things but believes they are true, then I wouldn't call that lying.
Then there is the area of exaggeration. I think there is some serious questions here about at least his claims of being the head of AATIP. As noted by @Mendel in post #40, when asked to describe exactly what AATIP was, he deferred to his "security oath". He's claimed over the years to have been the head of AATIP, a big US government UFO program.
But Lacatski claims he created the acronym AATIP to hide the existence of the unclassified AASWAP. There are records of AAWSAP being funded to the tune of $22 million and even Elizando claims he took over ATTIP from Lacatscki of AASWAP. But it appears AATIP was never funded and never had a staff. At best, AATIP seems to be a UFO lunch club that Elizando and Stratton did as a side gig. IF AATIP was the follow up to AASWAP and AAWSAP never got SAP (Special Access Program) credentials,, then neither did the AATIP. So, why all the "I can't say".
Mendel
Senior Member.
The problem is that he hasn't been "caught" in any truths, either.
None of these statements have proven true.
2022 GQ interview, youtube
Elizondo's answer to that question is the 2004 Nimitz encounter which suffers from a lack of data and contradictory witness accounts.
Elizondo says there is more convincing data out there, but invokes his security oath.
Article: Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkle Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs[1] (also known as the "Wizard of Oz" and, during his reign, as "Oz the Great and Terrible" or the "Great and Powerful Oz") is a fictional character in the Land of Oz created by American author L. Frank Baum.
The Wizard is one of the characters in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Unseen for most of the novel, he is the ruler of the Land of Oz and highly venerated by his subjects. Believing he is the only man capable of solving their problems, Dorothy and her friends travel to the Emerald City, the capital of Oz, to meet him. Oz is very reluctant to meet them, but eventually each is granted an audience, one by one. In each of these occasions, the Wizard appears in a different form, once as a giant head, once as a beautiful fairy, once as a horrible monster, and once as a ball of fire. When, at last, he grants an audience to all of them at once, he seems to be a disembodied voice.
Eventually, it is revealed that Oz is actually none of these things, but rather an ordinary conman from Omaha, Nebraska, who has been using elaborate magic tricks and props to make himself seem "great and powerful".
Note the same motif of salvation.
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Mendel
Senior Member.
Oh.
He did lie when he had the Navy videos declassified, saying they were to be used for a contractor's database, when he was planning to publish them via the New York Times.
https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/inside-the-pentagons-release-of-three-ufo-videos/
Also:
Article: Source: Mr. Luis Elizondo Slide Presentation, MUFON Conference, July 29, 2018. Slide Graphic. Excerpt from the text:
"2007 — Congressional language establishes the ‘Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Application Program’, aka AAWSAP”
Note: This contradicts the now established start date of AAWSAP which was later in 2008, not 2007. The bid solicitation was not published until August of 2008 and not awarded to anyone until September of 2008. To date, there is not a single document that shows anything happened with AAWSAP in 2007.
Mendel
Senior Member.
It's a promise of salvation, building up unfounded hope that brings their faction support.
UK residents may recall a similar pattern with Brexit, which was supposed to fix the UK's problems, and didn't (but made some worse). US residents may remember MAGA, which fell similarly flat.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Article: Steven Macon Greer (June 28, 1955) is an American ufologist[1] and retired physician who founded the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI) and the Disclosure Project, which seeks the disclosure of alleged classified UFO information.
In 2001, Greer held a briefing on a "Disclosure Project Briefing Document". The "Executive Summary of the Disclosure Project Briefing Document" is available via https://drstevengreer.com/document-library/ .
Article: 
This is what the disclosure movement is all about.
P.S.:
See also:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/uap-disinformation-narrative.11754/
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/dr-stephen-greer.4679/
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/si...t-aliens-anti-gravity-coverup-meditatio.1644/
plus various other mentions on Metabunk.
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Tezcatlipoca
Member
Yes actually, one of the old networked group members actually did studies specifically surrounding this. Kit Green. Kit was connected with that old "The Aviary" group that basically had the same odd "disclosure" aims - they were the kings of information, and since they know better than everyone, it is their right and need to drip disclosure to avert some "catastrophic" incident from broad, immediate disclosure, including from their own frame the allowance of manipulating the public to achieve this aim.
We lack depth of info about the new networked group (at least Elizondo, Stratton, Mellon, and Nell) but they slowly appear to be taking on a very similar view and even presenting it insanely similarly, for example the whole drip feeding disclosure to avert a "catastrophic disclosure".
https://nap.nationalacademies.org/c...gnitive-neuroscience-and-related-technologies
https://www.amazon.com/Mirage-Men-Adventure-Espionage-Psychological/dp/1602398003
"
"In a country that has a large, educated population there is a large subset of individuals who suffer from what's called paraphrenia. Paraphrenia is a form of mental illness that doesn't interfere with your everyday life. It means that you can have a delusion and not be crazy, a delusion that you can confine and control. Many of us have one corner of the mind that is delusional - I bet you that I do.
'I might, for example, be religious - I'm an Episcopalian, though as such, I am protected from diagnosis, as are all the UFO buffs, because a large social structure of shared beliefs, like a religion, cannot be a delusion. So all those people who believe that they are being beamed at by the government can no longer be diagnosed as crazy - there are just too many of them.
'But, if there is a condition that is threatening to the social structure - like the idea that the aliens are here and they are taking our babies, or that God hates people of a certain creed or colour - and if people who believe in that kind of delusion band together, they can end up encouraging each other to get a lot sicker, or they strap on belts and make themselves human bombs. So we have to know how to deal with these people and how to prevent them from being dangerous to others.
'This applies to the UFO problem. If something really strange in the area of UFOs is true, then what do we do about conveying that information to the public? First we consider what may be the basic facts: maybe there are civilised lifeforms elsewhere in the universe; maybe they visited us in their spaceships a couple of times and then went back home; perhaps they left a vehicle or some technology behind and we've spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out how to use it. And there may be people in the government who believe that this did happen, and believe that the information needs to be public knowledge, because perhaps someone outside of the government will be able to make sense of their technology. But there's another group of people in power who say, "No, it will make them sick to know all this, we can't let the story out, it's too dangerous."
'So, what do we do? There are studies on both sides of the problem. Some show that people will go crazy and jump of bridges when they're presented with this information. Others, however, say that if you don't want them to go crazy, what you do is systematically desensitize their fears.
'If you are a psychiatrist with a patient you can do that in a very methodical way. If you are a sociologist working with a group of students at a university you can do this in a very structured and experimental way. But if you are a government with a population it's a lot more complicated. Sure, there are those who are just going to shrug and say, "I always knew the aliens were real, it's no big deal." But you also know that some of them are nuttier than a fruitcake and could cause a lot of trouble. So we have to ask ourselves how we can tell people what they deserve to know and, maybe, what they need to know?
'The way to do it is to construct a framework whereby they can parse out the things that they've heard that are not true, and you whittle it down to a manageable story. A story like this: "There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '
'How do you tell people that story? If it's true?' he added, almost parenthetically.
"If you were to give them the core story right off the bat, they'd get sick, so you do it slowly over ten or twenty years.You put out a bunch of movies, a bunch of books, a bunch of stories, a bunch of Internet memes about reptilian aliens eating our children, about all the crazy stuff that we've seen recently in Serpo. Then one day you say, "Hey, all that stuff is nonsense, relax, it's not that bad, you don't have to worry, the reality is this..." - and then you give them the real story."
"In a country that has a large, educated population there is a large subset of individuals who suffer from what's called paraphrenia. Paraphrenia is a form of mental illness that doesn't interfere with your everyday life. It means that you can have a delusion and not be crazy, a delusion that you can confine and control. Many of us have one corner of the mind that is delusional - I bet you that I do.
'I might, for example, be religious - I'm an Episcopalian, though as such, I am protected from diagnosis, as are all the UFO buffs, because a large social structure of shared beliefs, like a religion, cannot be a delusion. So all those people who believe that they are being beamed at by the government can no longer be diagnosed as crazy - there are just too many of them.
'But, if there is a condition that is threatening to the social structure - like the idea that the aliens are here and they are taking our babies, or that God hates people of a certain creed or colour - and if people who believe in that kind of delusion band together, they can end up encouraging each other to get a lot sicker, or they strap on belts and make themselves human bombs. So we have to know how to deal with these people and how to prevent them from being dangerous to others.
'This applies to the UFO problem. If something really strange in the area of UFOs is true, then what do we do about conveying that information to the public? First we consider what may be the basic facts: maybe there are civilised lifeforms elsewhere in the universe; maybe they visited us in their spaceships a couple of times and then went back home; perhaps they left a vehicle or some technology behind and we've spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out how to use it. And there may be people in the government who believe that this did happen, and believe that the information needs to be public knowledge, because perhaps someone outside of the government will be able to make sense of their technology. But there's another group of people in power who say, "No, it will make them sick to know all this, we can't let the story out, it's too dangerous."
'So, what do we do? There are studies on both sides of the problem. Some show that people will go crazy and jump of bridges when they're presented with this information. Others, however, say that if you don't want them to go crazy, what you do is systematically desensitize their fears.
'If you are a psychiatrist with a patient you can do that in a very methodical way. If you are a sociologist working with a group of students at a university you can do this in a very structured and experimental way. But if you are a government with a population it's a lot more complicated. Sure, there are those who are just going to shrug and say, "I always knew the aliens were real, it's no big deal." But you also know that some of them are nuttier than a fruitcake and could cause a lot of trouble. So we have to ask ourselves how we can tell people what they deserve to know and, maybe, what they need to know?
'The way to do it is to construct a framework whereby they can parse out the things that they've heard that are not true, and you whittle it down to a manageable story. A story like this: "There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '
'How do you tell people that story? If it's true?' he added, almost parenthetically.
"If you were to give them the core story right off the bat, they'd get sick, so you do it slowly over ten or twenty years.You put out a bunch of movies, a bunch of books, a bunch of stories, a bunch of Internet memes about reptilian aliens eating our children, about all the crazy stuff that we've seen recently in Serpo. Then one day you say, "Hey, all that stuff is nonsense, relax, it's not that bad, you don't have to worry, the reality is this..." - and then you give them the real story."
In a skew from this within PSYOP and Covert Influence there is a recognized use area of what largely just gets called "supernatural" themes and narratives, it's not very common but it happens from time to time, there's an often given example with Landsdale and the Huk "Vampires".
In regards to strategic and strategic-military deception, we also know that during the cold war both the US and USSR played ball against each other here - public populations were involved but in a tiny lesson, the public is almost never the actual audience, the public is used as a channel to reach deception targets where the public is seen as an agreeable channel. A lot of the odd parascience programs both nations did were initially predicated off beliefs that the other was doing it (whether they actually were or just pushing disinformation about it).
I believe the wording selection there is using hypothesis generation in the intelligence analysis sense. Granted we don't know the backend, I'd presume they're referencing something like using Analysis of Competing Hypothesis in relation to very specific details based off data being reactively interacted with. Or in shorter terms probably something like they're using pre-existing and accessible data to create and weight hypothesis to use in presentation to back their efforts (towards the government).
LOE matrices like that are a bit odd too, you do move between phases but they also all act consistently because the prior phases and stages build up key drivers to allowing the rest to carry out or achieve their specific goals. Notice how at the top there's the "On Target" "Off Target" etc, you are kind of consistently acting towards them all since you're aligning and synchronizing it all back to a broader intent, and each is critical for the next to be successful.
Mendel
Senior Member.
neither the old network nor the new network has ever "drip-fed" anything worthwhile.
it seems to be a rationalisation for the inability to do what actual whistleblowers do, and that is to get the information published ASAP.
(They have no information.)
if I were to inoculate a population, I would feed it the truth, but begin by using untrustworthy sources, and then escalate the level of trust.
That's bound to work better than to continously change the story.
The drip-feed approach is better if you want to build support for a fake narrative, as it is more immune to scrutiny.
Tezcatlipoca
Member
Not saying they have, just that they're presenting similar views in that regard of what they think they're doing.
The bottom two parts are a debate for another thread probably? Neither are really inaccurate or accurate, there's worlds more factors involved impacting it that'd act as key drivers into which is more efficient, though in some cases that'd be the way.
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