List of reasons people do not want to get the Covid vaccine.....

Leifer

Senior Member.

List of reasons some people do not want to get the Covid vaccine.....​


** Not enough testing or vaccine chemical experience upon the public over time. (long-term health outcome).
Some people are still waiting to see problems with vaccinations... perceived as..."the vaccine was produced too fast".

** Somewhat romantic ideals about religious principals, even though most Cardinals and the Pope and the Dalai Lama have taken the vaccine.

** Refusal to take the vaccine because it is a "mandate". (gov't tyranny, over-rule, political reasons)
"you can't tell me what to do"... an emancipated feel-good place of thought.

* Big Pharma needs the money. (even though covid vaccines are free....with some gov't sponsorship)

** Unproven conspiratorial ideas or myths such as "there is a hidden medication inside the vaccine" and become beliefs among sections of social media.

** (added) "fear of needles or injections" common and somewhat understandable.

Here is a list of myths vs. fact...........
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...oronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact
 
Last edited:

JMartJr

Senior Member
Big Pharma needs the money. (even though covid vaccines are free....with some gov't sponsorship)

I don't believe that "Big Pharma" is providing the vaccines for free, are they? Various levels of government paying for the vaccines does not negate "Big Pharma" making money from providing them.

(Noting that adding "Big" in front of something atomatically makes it evil and wrong, I wonder if we should start referring to "Big UFOlogy," "Big 911 Truther" or "Big Flat Earth".)
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Interesting list.
I wonder if refusing the vaccine makes some people feel like they're
somehow smarter than "the experts" or at least more discriminating.

Millions of Americans consider their hunches and reams of scientific data
to be largely equal, in terms of accuracy.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I wonder if refusing the vaccine makes some people feel like they're
somehow smarter than "the experts" or at least more discriminating.
my impression is that most think the "experts" are just lying through their teeth for a spectrum of reasons. and that they are smarter then the dupes who believe the experts.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
"you can't tell me what to do"... an emancipated feel-good place of thought.
tbh this rebellious tone has more in common with a tantrum than with an emancipated decision

"Small pharma" are the snake oil salesmen and miracle cure peddlers who profit from people's fears.
 

Jeffrey Orling

Senior Member
I feel as a typical person it's almost impossible to know what the data actually is with respect to the virus and the vax. Stats can be deceiving.
I believe other vaccines have proven effective and there are still detractors.
I suspect that the vax may do some good and perhaps a little bad... but it depends on the individual. Humans are unique in a sense.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
I feel as a typical person it's almost impossible to know what the data actually is with respect to the virus and the vax. Stats can be deceiving.
If you give equal numbers of people the vaccine and a placebo and wait a few months, the vaccine group will end up healthier than the placebo group, during the pandemic.

Obviously if there was no Covid at all, the vaccination would be a net negative for the individual, as taking some medication is always more risky than not getting sick at all.

Basically, if severe cases of Covid were as rare as severe side effects from vaccination, it'd be a toss-up. Obviously this depends on how bad the epidemic is where you live, which means the vaccine benefit isn't fixed. (If god protects you 100% from Covid, vaccination is pointless.) For example, because kids (age 6-11) rarely have severe cases of Covid, the individual benefit of vaccinating a kid may depend on specific risk factors.

There's also a population benefit to vaccinating kids, because at times, much of the spread happens among kids and teens, and it can spread back into the adult population from them.
So while a low incidence of Covid means individual benefit of the vaccination is also low, having a good vaccination rate means it stays low.

It's better to get vaccinated when the individual benefit might not be clear, than to wait until the epidemic gets so bad that the individual benefit is overwhelming. Widespread vaccination is also the route that involves the least restrictions.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
I really really want to understand why people refuse the vaccine. I just really want to understand their reasoning.
 

RTM

Member
Would it be fair to say that sometimes the reasons may reflect political leanings? I may be generalizing, but I seem to have noticed that people who are more conservative may come from a distrust of science, anti authority angle whereas liberals are more into anti corporation and really buy into the idea of natural being better.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
from a distrust of science
it's not a distrust of science really, it's a distrust of the scientists. just saying.

I really really want to understand why people refuse the vaccine. I just really want to understand their reasoning.
i think it's just basic fear of the vaccine for the majority of people. they don't trust the authorities (variety of reasons) so much, so the authorities aren't relieving the fear. I myself won't take "new" medication until it's been on the market like 10 years or so.

and some people really believe natural immunity is best, and that they will be fine if they get covid. I used to love getting the flu each year when in my 20s. well, the "please kill me now God" phase sucked.. but that only lasted 2-3 days and then you lost all those Christmas pounds easy schmeasy. a beautiful thing. But i dont want the flu now because i'm old and am more apt not to bounce back as well.

my personal fear (i did opt to get vaccine as i have lung issues and very old parents) stemmed from the fact that i am purposefully pulling the trigger on a game of russian roulette by getting the vaccine. Where as covid i can choose to avoid (i'm luckier than most that way).
 

Rory

Senior Member.
I really really want to understand why people refuse the vaccine. I just really want to understand their reasoning.

For people I know of, one friend is waiting for the Novavax vaccine because she trusts protein subunit vaccines more than mRNA and another is into his conspiracy theories, alternative health theories, and generally distrusts most things promoted by "the mainstream". A few more are nervous and/or have had their fears stoked by listening to him. And my girlfriend and I, it's a combination of generally feeling so far removed from the pandemic we don't really think about it - haven't been touched by it, wouldn't know it was happening if it wasn't for checking in online - and being 6000 miles from home out in the Mexican desert it doesn't much seem like an option either. And the longer it's gone on the less we think about it and the more it seems we can probably just ride it out since it doesn't seem like there's much pressing need given how few people we ever come into contact with.

But I guess that's not really "refusing", since it hasn't been offered, that's more "it's just not on the radar" - and certainly not in the way it would be if we were in the UK.
 
Last edited:

NoParty

Senior Member.
I really really want to understand why people refuse the vaccine. I just really want to understand their reasoning.
I get ya.
I honestly think it's about 10 different camps, including
most mentioned in this thread.

From people thinking they're being better conservatives by refusing,
to many different takes on science. For many Americans, trust in science
is a light switch that they flick on and off daily, to fit their beliefs:
Roller coasters, blu-ray players, F-350 2-valve Flex Fuel V8 Engines,
iPhone 13 Pro Max? "Science is the best!"

But when science is interpreted as challenging their faith,
most commonly re. evolution, many will flip the switch and reject it.
 

Mauro

Active Member
I get ya.
I honestly think it's about 10 different camps, including
most mentioned in this thread.

From people thinking they're being better conservatives by refusing,
to many different takes on science. For many Americans, trust in science
is a light switch that they flick on and off daily, to fit their beliefs:
Roller coasters, blu-ray players, F-350 2-valve Flex Fuel V8 Engines,
iPhone 13 Pro Max? "Science is the best!"

But when science is interpreted as challenging their faith,
most commonly re. evolution, many will flip the switch and reject it.
There's another possible, and generally overlooked reason: fear of medical procedures in general. This is not the place to talk about it, but it's a serious matter and it affects at least a few % of the population.

It also happens to be my personal case: I have had my two shots at last, but it costed me an awful afternoon at my local vax hub, from which I fled crying without getting the shot. Then a couple months later, when I had already given up hopes, a 250km trip on mountain roads to a vax center in Italy where I had (miracolously) discovered they were administering 'needle-less' shots, then three weeks later another 250km trip, this time with 50 drops of Lexotan added on top (it's bromazepam, a benzodiazepine, and yes, I consulted with my doctor before doing that).
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
That's a good but unfortunate story.
It also happens to be my personal case:
If i may guess... is it a terrifying fear of needles ? Many people have such a fear, and it prevents them from vaccines as well as preventitive medical examinations....like drawing blood for essential health testing.
I'm just guessing, but also bringing up an issue., otherwise.
 
Last edited:

Leifer

Senior Member.
I don't believe that "Big Pharma" is providing the vaccines for free, are they? Various levels of government paying for the vaccines does not negate "Big Pharma" making money from providing them.
I would never assume Pharma is not somehow profiting a little off developing and administrating and dosing preventive vaccines.

"Vaccines are a very small enterprise relative to the pharmaceutical industry overall: vaccine revenues constitute only about 1.5 percent of global pharmaceutical sales (Batson, 2001). Global sales of all vaccines combined are roughly equivalent to the individual sales of such familiar pharmaceutical products such as Lipitor, Prilosec, and Zocor (Marketletter, 2002). In just three decades, the number of firms supplying routine vaccines to the United States dwindled to 5 companies that today produce all of the routinely recommended childhood and adult vaccines."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221811/
 
Last edited:

Leifer

Senior Member.
I don't believe that "Big Pharma" is providing the vaccines for free, are they? Various levels of government paying for the vaccines does not negate "Big Pharma" making money from providing them.

(Noting that adding "Big" in front of something atomatically makes it evil and wrong, I wonder if we should start referring to "Big UFOlogy," "Big 911 Truther" or "Big Flat Earth".)
I think you are correct.....and good topic.
Pharma is being sponsored by the gov't.. I doubt that pharma is in the buisness to "lose money" but let's look.....
We can see....there is Congressional HR 336
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjwyaySiqL0AhXRLH0KHdXWCCsQFnoECAMQAQ&url=https://www.congress.gov/117/bills/hr366/BILLS-117hr366ih.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0RhZnzHQ_znOBAypJnumiv
If I am ever wrong.... I'll take back what I said.
Sorry that was a vague bill.
Here are more specific bills.
https://ora.stanford.edu/government-sponsor-covid-19-guidance

 
Last edited:

Mauro

Active Member
That's a good but unfortunate story.

If i may guess... is it a terrifying fear of needles ? Many people have such a fear, and it prevents them from vaccines as well as preventitive medical examinations....like drawing blood for essential health testing.
I'm just guessing, but also bringing up an issue., otherwise.
Yes, right. Actually a terrifying fear of anything which can violate the body's integrity, pinpricks, cuts, anyting really.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Yes, right. Actually a terrifying fear of anything which can violate the body's integrity, pinpricks, cuts, anyting really.
I totally understand & respect that.
For what it's worth, I was at my pharmacy picking up some subscriptions, yesterday,
and it occurred to me to ask if I could just get a quick "regular' flu shot,
while I was there (I've already had all 3 Pfizer COVID shots).
They said yes...I quickly filled in 5 or six spots on a form, sat down, and rolled up my left sleeve.

My practice is to look away. :p She swabbed the spot...the cleaner was cool. Then I thought I felt
a tiny prick...but it was soooooo slight that I decided she had just lightly pressed the needle to
the skin, and then--for whatever reason--paused for a moment. Now I was curious, but before I
could turn to look, I felt the unmistakable sensation of a small bandage being gently applied. :)

Stunningly quick and painless.

p.s. It occurred to me immediately that if I were the conspiracy type, now I'd probably decide
that Big Pharma only pretended to give me a vaccine, to make even more profit ;P
because it was soooo slight, and I didn't actually see anything.
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Needles are so sharp these days... they are basically painless.
But to people that have injection fears , sharpness might be a bad word.
To me, "sharpness" is a good word, it means fast and easy injections, like the Tetnus booster I had 6 months ago after cutting my fimger on a cheese grater.. The injury was way worse than the injection. The Covid shots.... I did not even feel at all.
 

Mauro

Active Member
Needles are so sharp these days... they are basically painless.
But to people that have injection fears , sharpness is actually a bad word.
To me, "sharpness" is a good word, it means fast and easy injections, like the Tetnus booster I had 6 months ago. The Covid shots.... I did not even feel at all.
The problem is not the pain (well, it would be very much a problem if there were any, but there isn't actually) nor the needle, the problem is the damage done (not exactly a Neil Young quote, but let's give merit to who deserves it). Now I'm probably abusing of your time, but, when I had my first 'needle-less' shot, I suffered a bad case of magical thinking. Yeah, I, Mauro, one of the most finicky skeptics I ever had the ill luck to meet, have fallen prey to magical thinking. I was convinced that, somehow, magically indeed, the needleless device would have teleported the vaccine inside my body without breaching anything. I walked boldly in, got my shot without feeling anything (it's so fast nerves don't even have time to react, milliseconds) and then I walked proudly out. When I later discovered the syringe was not magical after all, that it did make a hole (it is the pressurized liquid itself which works as a needle, just like the machines which cut metal sheets with water jets) everything changed. I was not that bold for the second shot and I had to take a (moderately strong dose of) tranquilizer to get it (and a lot of people, whom I thank, goaded me on).
 
Last edited:

Leifer

Senior Member.
"you can't tell me what to do"... an emancipated feel-good place of thought.
...like seat belts, speed limits, stop signs. baby seats, early infant vaccines, alcohol drinking limits, It seems to come down to safety when people are around other people.
 

Mauro

Active Member
I wonder if it outweighs "fear of death" for those people...
You have no idea what 'fearing needles' really mean. Picture yourself in front of an angry leopard or black mamba or whatever immediate grave danger: that's what one who fears needles feels. The needle itself becomes (absurdly, I know!) the mortal danger one must flee or fight. You cannot just control it. Irrational, spropositate and incontrollable, that's what phobic reactions are, unfortunately. Some dysfunctional miswiring in the mid-low brain circuits, totally out of the conscious sphere.
 

Cryptic

Banned
Banned
"Circulation" which is the #1 mainstream journal for cardiologists has just published in its November 2021 edition a study that says the Covid vax is causing blood clots and is harmful to the heart:

Recently, with the advent of the mRNA COVID 19 vaccines (vac) by Moderna and Pfizer, dramatic changes in the PULS score became apparent in most patients.This report summarizes those results.
We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
"Circulation" which is the #1 mainstream journal for cardiologists has just published in its November 2021 edition a study that says the Covid vax is causing blood clots and is harmful to the heart:



https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
This is not my area of expertise...I'd have to spend a long time trying to digest this and
compare it to other things the medical community thinks/believes.
(For instance, how important is "...dramatically increased inflammation on the endothelium?")

But I usually start with a quick google search: If this is really game-changing news,
it stands to reason that it would be getting tons of coverage, by news entities of all stripes.
This says "Nov. 8" which is two weeks ago...so I searched on "Circulation + Gundry + vaccine"
and told google to just search the last month.

I found almost nothing. Okay, I can see conspiracy theorists saying: "The MSM is trying
to hide it!" but that doesn't explain why no sizable right wing news entities are publishing it.

If I accept that Circulation really "...is the #1 mainstream journal for cardiologists..."
then this almost complete lack of impact, on such a vital issue, is truly bizarre.

Why do you think that this dramatic-sounding news is being ignored by virtually everyone?
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Hm. Circulation seems reputable enough:


But reading Dr Gundry's wikipedia he comes in for a fair bit of stick for promoting "quackery and pseudoscience".

(I wonder if this one and the previous two posts should be moved to 'current Covid events' rather than this thread?)
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
a study that says the Covid vax is causing blood clots and is harmful to the heart:
where does it say that?

i see "may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination."

your quotes.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
and what does this line in the abstract mean?
Article:
Elevation above the norm increases the PULS score, while decreases below the norm lowers the PULS score.The score has been measured every 3-6 months in our patient population for 8 years


the test hasnt been around for 8 years.
Article:
"Since product launch in 2018, PULS Cardiac Test sales have demonstrated consistent growth through December 2020, which marked the 100,000th test order and our first major distribution milestone.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
A big problem is that this is a very indirect measurement.
They're measuring proteins that are correlated with an inflammation that is correlated with a coronary risk. As with cholesterol, without a clear theory of causation this may mean nothing.
It may be true that whatever causes a coronary risk also causes the PULS to go up, but there may also be other causes that do that that don't involve coronary risk; you can't really tell because the test is so indirect.

It's also turned out that for similar heart-related risks, an actual Covid infection is a lot worse than just the vaccination.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
the test hasnt been around for 8 years.
it is possible that Gundry was involved in the development of the test before it came to market; in that case, he may even make money if he can get a lot of scared people to use it. I haven't looked into it, though.
 

Mauro

Active Member
I 100% agree with Mendel (post #36). The article dramatizes 'a little bit' the importance of the results in the title, and using it to support anti-vax positions is just a case of cherrypicking
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
They're measuring proteins that are correlated with an inflammation that is correlated with a coronary risk.
Note also that the vaccination is supposed to "simulate" an inflammation to get the immune system to respond. Because the heart has ACE2 receptors, that simulated inflammation would also target the heart. But the difference to a real inflammation is that, because there's no actual virus, you don't get a chronic inflammation. So if you can detect that simulated inflammation with PULS, that's great, the vaccine worked! But you don't have a 5-year risk because you don't actually have a chronic inflammation.

If what I said is true, then the PULS score should go down again some time after the vaccination. If Gundry had some patients vaccinated in March or earlier, he should've had the opportunity to look at PULS scores 6 months after vaccination and see if they drop. But he's not reporting on that; he's reporting a fairly short-term effect that's comparable to the persistence of vaccine-induced antibodies.
 

Daves!

Member
In advance i want to say this first : i respect everyones freedom and opinion. I wont judge people for their own personal choices.
Here is another down to earth reason why some dont take the vaccine.

- some would rather take medication when they are sick and dont want to take a shot when they are perfectly healthy. The risk of becomming sick as a healthy young person and the risk to get to the hospital is very small.
If it happens that you get Covid-19 they rather take medication or stay home sick.
In other words not taking something when you arent sick but healthy is for some people enough reason not to take a vaccine not even as a precaution.
You dont take something for a sickness or a virus you dont have. Rather take a cure at the moment you get sick and not beforehand.

Nothing to do with conspiracy but more a down to earth explenation for some.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Pete Tar Wiki's List Of Common Misconceptions. General Discussion 16
Mathias Olsen Partially Debunked: List of Monsanto Employees in Government Conspiracy Theories 30
Oxymoron Debunked: 9/11: Flight 77 "suspicious" Passenger list 9/11 328
Oxymoron Leaked: Drone Kill List: Authority to kill American citizens has no geographic limit Conspiracy Theories 11
Twenty2AcaciaAve The Prof/Engineer list that truthers always talk about. 9/11 47
Clock List of 9/11 threads on Metabunk General Discussion 0
MikeC Resource: airliner list by serial number Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Mick West Debunked: Environmental Working Group’s ‘Dirty Dozen’ List Science and Pseudoscience 6
Mat Reasons to believe in Chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 9
Rory Claim: adverse reactions in Covid vaccine trials are not being recorded Coronavirus COVID-19 67
P Claim: 75 Deaths of athletes in Five Months are Because of COVID-19 vaccines Coronavirus COVID-19 11
trevor COVID vaccine and VAERS discussion Coronavirus COVID-19 43
Rory Claim: Covid vaccines contains self-aware aluminum parasites Coronavirus COVID-19 44
T Claim: Offguardian article claiming that Covid PCR testing is flawed and not reliable Coronavirus COVID-19 8
P Friend has fallen into COVID-conspiracies Coronavirus COVID-19 95
Rory Debunked: UK undertaker's claim that Covid vaccine is responsible for spike in deaths Coronavirus COVID-19 7
Mick West Debunked: Pfizer Developing a Twice-Per-Day COVID Pill, Taken Alongside Vaccines Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mick West Are 99% of COVID-19 Deaths Among the Unvaccinated? Coronavirus COVID-19 43
Peter Finnish politician on possible Covid Vaccine Genocide Coronavirus COVID-19 12
D Claim: Videos of people exhaling vape smoke through a mask, demonstrate masks as useless against a virus.. Coronavirus COVID-19 42
P Need Debunking: "Experimental Vaccine Death Rate for Israel's Elderly 40 Times Higher Than COVID-19 Deaths" Coronavirus COVID-19 7
G Claim: China refused to hand "key data" to WHO delegation during the recent investigation in Wuhan Coronavirus COVID-19 29
Oystein Report: "23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine" (NY Post) Coronavirus COVID-19 9
JMartJr Covid Stimulus Bill mandates UFO Disclosure UFOs and Aliens 5
A.G. Explained: Covid-19 research with pre-2020 dates in Google search results Coronavirus COVID-19 4
Mick West Explained: "Disappearing needles" in Covid Vaccinations Coronavirus COVID-19 1
Adam Taylor A Plug for "You Can Know Things" Coronavirus COVID-19 0
B Covid hoaxer and anti vaxxer’s son, speaks out. Coronavirus COVID-19 1
A Needs Debunking: Proposed COVID Vaccine will become part of our DNA, make us programmable Coronavirus COVID-19 37
Shade sitter Claim: Covid vaccine gives you "Serpent" DNA/marks you 666 Coronavirus COVID-19 9
Arugula Claim: Only 6% of COVID deaths are "real" - the rest died due to comorbidities Coronavirus COVID-19 12
Mendel The E-PAI report on the Origins of COVID-19 Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mendel Debunked: The WHO did not take the Taiwan CDC seriously Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Dingo Claim: U.S. Covid-19 Deaths are being Artificially Inflated Coronavirus COVID-19 38
omaehamoushindeiru Claim:Natural Covid-19 broke out of Wuhan lab (not man-made) Coronavirus COVID-19 72
Dan Wilson Claim:HIV Protein Sequences in Covid-19 (report withdrawn by authors) & other "man made" claims Coronavirus COVID-19 32
Arugula COVID-19 Coronavirus current events Coronavirus COVID-19 1006
Related Articles





































Related Articles

Top