Knapp's Investigation Alien: Light Goes Underwater

Mick West

Mick West

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Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6dzSc8wCIQ


In episode 4 of the George Knapp Netflix show "Investigation Aliens", a light is shown descending into the water, where it stays at or below the surface for a while. Very little context is given. The above YouTube clip is the segment from the show. The following is all the bits of video showing the object.


Like many TV UFO clips, it's edited quite a bit so there's gaps in the video where it jumps forward a few seconds.

There seems to be two distinct segments, in one (the "dark" segment) there's no stars visible, but in another (the "stars" segment) we see a tilted horizon and stars.

The rippling of the water and the way it spreads out seem to suggest it's not that far away, or very big. Here's a rough stabilization on the water:



My #1 hypothesis here is that this is a hoax done with practical effects. A light suspended from a drone or something. I can't really see it doing anything amazing.
 
Mendel said:
magnesium flare on a parachute dropping into the water?
Click to expand...

Mick West said:
we see a tilted horizon
Click to expand...
We don't even need to see the horizon; we can tell it's tilted by the angle of the band of reflections in the water. That means, of course, that the object is not descending in a straight line, but is floating with a slight drift toward our right, which enhances the appearance of Mendel's suggested parachute hypothesis.
 
Astrometry of the frame where stars are visible

https://nova.astrometry.net/user_images/11403189#annotated

2024-11-10_09-04-03.jpg


Looking at Cepheus Draco and Hercules, I think this means Northern Hemisphere.

It might be possible to give a guess at time of year based on the relative rotation of asterisms? Not sure if location affects this?

~60 degree hfov ~33.6 vfov
 
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Cygnus and Lyra are both near the horizon in that image and fairly level with each other. I suspect this would be some time in midwinter in the Northern Hemisphere, when both constellations are near the horizon looking north. If this were much further south, Vega and Deneb would be at a much steeper angle to the horizon when they rise and set.
 
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Just thinking out loud here, but glowing things and lights are often used in fishing. Obviously big commercial squid/shrimp boats have been possible solutions to UFOs in the past. But on a smaller scale depending on how far away this is, something simple like glow bobber being lowered form a fishing pole with a weight below it to make it sink:


1731340430243.png



There's also "Glorbs", small sticky glowing balls:

1731340320041.png
 
Mick West said:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6dzSc8wCIQ

In episode 4 of the George Knapp Netflix show "Investigation Aliens", a light is shown descending into the water, where it stays at or below the surface for a while. Very little context is given. The above YouTube clip is the segment from the show. The following is all the bits of video showing the object.
Click to expand...


Guest: I've got no answers, do you?

Knapp: "Do you think it's got a base down there?"

Guest: "It could be, it could be."

The guy that's, literally, got no answers is then asked to speculate. So he does. Knapp characteristically offers a leading question and is then quite comfortable with the implied theory—backed up by absolutely nothing. "Journalism."
 
jarlrmai said:
So it's supposed to be off the coast of Mexico, which is a lot of area
Click to expand...
This location does not seem to be consistent with the stars shown in @jarlrmai 's astrometry image; if the location is the Gulf of Mexico, then Cygnus and Lyra would never both be parallel to the ocean surface.

Here is an image showing the angle of Cygnus and Lyra as they set (left) and rise (right), as seen from the Gulf of Mexico; as I expected, they are at a much more acute angle to the sea than shown in the astrometry.
cygnuslyra.png


So either the astrometry is wrong, or the location is wrong.
 
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Jack Mallory said:
The guy that's, literally, got no answers is then asked to speculate. So he does. Knapp characteristically offers a leading question and is then quite comfortable with the implied theory—backed up by absolutely nothing. "Journalism."
Click to expand...
The sins of entertainment masquerading as journalism probably should be laid at the feet of entertainment, rather than journalism. Netflix is not a news outlet. Though I'd agree that the fuzzing of that boundary is also increasingly being done by news outlets hungry for viewers. It is a problem, though, whoever does it.

Mendel said:
magnesium flare on a parachute dropping into the water?
Click to expand...
An objection I have seen raised to this is that "It can't be a flare, where's the smoke?" This is not totally unreasonable, flares tend to make smoke:
flare.jpg


But it is not too hard to find examples of parachurte flares where the smoke is not visible (posted here for the use of anyone refuting that point):

Source: https://youtu.be/E9T0UJhQt3o?t=13



The object, particularly noticeable when in the water, is emitting green light. In addition to green flares, this would be consistent with such things as a bundle of glow sticks or LEDs.
 
JMartJr said:
The object, particularly noticeable when in the water, is emitting green light. In addition to green flares, this would be consistent with such things as a bundle of glow sticks or LEDs.
Click to expand...
My take was that the water gave the light a greenish tint.
 
The guest is Rory Kremer, an "underwater archaeologist". I've watched more of episode 3 now, and they were just going to the California Channel Islands, off Ventura.
2024-11-11_10-02-30.jpg
 
From episode 3. Its implied that the light video was shot this night, near here. 4/10/2024

34 04 27.03, -119 52 07.52, which matched the show location, Panted Cave, Santa Cruz Island.

2024-11-11_10-22-47.jpg


2024-11-11_10-23-51.jpg
 
NorCal Dave said:
Just thinking out loud here, but glowing things and lights are often used in fishing. Obviously big commercial squid/shrimp boats have been possible solutions to UFOs in the past. But on a smaller scale depending on how far away this is, something simple like glow bobber being lowered form a fishing pole with a weight below it to make it sink:
Click to expand...
And if you scrutinize the movement and trajectory of the glowing object once it's submerge, it at least appears to be consistent with that of being dragged by a fish that took the bait. We could use more context (of course) but that clip provides very little (if any at all).
 
We need an additional acronym. We have LIZ (Low Information Zone), but we need an acronym for cases like this. BAFZ (Boring as f*** zone)? WSWECZ (why should we even care zone)? Seriously, this is a video of a light slowly descending straight down into water. It really shows how little the believers have at this point.
 
Mendel said:
My take was that the water gave the light a greenish tint.
Click to expand...
Possibly, but it seems to be VERY green before it has had time to go very deep. But note that the reflections off the waves also look green (or at least green-ish.) This could of course be down to the camera, but barring info confirming that I'm leaning towards it is a green light.

This might be of interest -- person wearing a lighsuit with red and green LEDs on a flyboard over water falls in... with reflections from above the water also including blue lights on buildings, and then how the red and green lights looks after he falls in.


Source: https://youtu.be/2zVGDNqQzg0?t=34

Might have been more useful for us if they'd stayed submerged longer, but probably good for them that they didn't...
 
JMartJr said:
This might be of interest -- person wearing a lighsuit with red and green LEDs on a flyboard over water falls in..
Click to expand...

That is a pretty cool looking video!

JMartJr said:
but barring info confirming that I'm leaning towards it is a green light.
Click to expand...

Again, very common in fishing:

1731360608920.png
1731360769011.png


Now whether these would be used near Santa Cruz Island, I can't figure out. Seems fishing for Blue Fin off the SoCal coast is a thing, but not sure if they use lights.
 
Whomever was filming was close enough to see if it were fishing or something from what I can see, they could have gone over and looked at it. So it strikes more like a deliberate hoax rather than a misidentification.
 
Mick West said:
Rory Kremer, an "underwater archaeologist
Click to expand...

Not sure how this, jives with this:

jarlrmai said:
So it strikes more like a deliberate hoax rather than a misidentification.
Click to expand...

Mick West said:
My #1 hypothesis here is that this is a hoax done with practical effects.
Click to expand...

Are we saying this guy is presenting a hoaxed video to Knapp? He claims his night watchman captured it while the crew was sleeping. Did the nightwatchman hoax it?

And here is how Kremer described his being on the show, at least before he filmed it on his LinkedIn:

1731372952371.png

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rory-kremer-221bb025/

Not one word about "aliens". He makes it sound like a legit show about underwater archeology. Was he selectively edited?

All a bit confusing.
 
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On Episode 3, Season 1 of "Investigation Alien", Rory operates a Deep Trekker Pivot ROV (35:19):

1731377579907.png


1731378145066.png

source: https://www.deeptrekker.com/products/underwater-rov/pivot

At (35:44) they use a green light to help with the preparations for launching the ROV:

1731377768857.png


At (36:02) they launch the ROV:

1731377891036.png


The episode ends when they spot a light in the sky whilst operating the ROV:

1731378575403.png


Following the hoax hypothesis, maybe when the light in the op video reaches the water, they turn the green light on using the ROV remote control.

The Pivot ROV is fitted with a manipulator, which could be holding a green light to disguise the ROV by replacing the characteristic twin headlights, making it a single light source instead, to match the light coming from the sky. The light can then be moved around whilst the ROV remains largely stationary.

1731378844217.png

source: https://ocean-innovations.net/companies/deep-trekker/products/underwater-rov/pivot-rov/
1731380044912.png

source: https://ocean-innovations.net/companies/deep-trekker/products/pivot-nav/

There are several types of manipulators and attachments in the accessories package:

1731379681071.png

source: https://ocean-innovations.net/companies/deep-trekker/products/manipulator-bundle-pack-6-attachments/

Standard tether length is 100m to 300m (they also sell 75m reels):

1731379057994.png

1731380417407.png

source: https://ocean-innovations.net/companies/deep-trekker/products/underwater-rov/pivot-rov/
 
Mick West said:
In episode 4 of the George Knapp Netflix show "Investigation Aliens", a light is shown descending into the water
Click to expand...

I don't know the show. If it has a similar approach to evidence as the Skinwalker Ranch franchise shows, I'm not sure debunking Investigation Aliens content will achieve much. My impression is that SWR-type shows are chasing ratings, they're not trying to establish the truth or advance our understanding. Like similar ghost hunting series, wherever they go, they will find "anomalous evidence".

The OP video appears to show a light above water gradually descending until it is either just above, or possibly beneath, water.

We've had waterproof lights for decades. Some are cheap. And it's easy to improvise a temporarily waterproof covering/ container for an electric torch/ lamp etc. if it's not being used at any great depth (though only ever use appropriately tested waterproof items for serious applications!)

(1) @NorCal Dave and @john.phil have demonstrated that illuminated fishing lures are a thing, as are illuminated angling floats.
(2) Such lights can be lowered into the water, and retrieved again.
(3) An off-the-peg drone could carry a small waterproofed lightsource on the end of a tether.
We might ask why anyone would bother, but the fact is people have put effort into UFO hoaxes. AFAIK, many alleged hoaxers are (or claim to be) believers in UFOs, not sceptics or Govt. agents /other authority figures/ fashionable bogeymen.
(4) Investigation Aliens is probably aimed at UFO believers and the less critical viewing public, not at astrophysicists/ oceanographers/ biologists/ the defense community.
(5) I predict that most episodes, the cast will find some mystery that they cannot explain except as possible evidence of alien visitation. Not because they've found testable evidence of alien visitation, but because that is the format of the show.

George Knapp is just doing his job, earning a crust.
And because of that, whatever he actually believes on the subject, he's not going to be on Investigation Aliens saying
"But this is ridiculous! That could just be a fishing lure or LED torch in a condom, on the end of a fishing line!"
 
NorCal Dave said:
Now whether these would be used near Santa Cruz Island, I can't figure out. Seems fishing for Blue Fin off the SoCal coast is a thing, but not sure if they use lights.
Click to expand...
It does not make sense to me, looking at it, as fishing being mistaken for a UFO. It looks a lot like what a hoax using lighted fishing gear (or some other lights) and lowering it into the water.

Which does not mean it IS a hoax, "it looks like it to me" is not proof of anything. .
 
Just listening again to the video from the OP, and that closing statement from Knapp is quite audacious. He says he wants to the share that video with "insiders" and advocates for more sharing of such videos in order, "to get to the bottom of what Non-human Intelligence might be doing in our oceans. This is not us, it's from somewhere else."

He's declaring, as fact, that this is definitively the work of NHI. All of that simply from viewing a totally inconclusive video. Good lord.
 
Alytha said:
Just out of curiosity, do whales count as non-human intelligence in our oceans?

(sorry)
Click to expand...
Just wait until George discovers the octopus.

What's also funny is his notion that the oceans are ours. If he truly believes NHI are involved, does it ever occur to him that maybe they're asking themselves the same question about what they deem to be their oceans?
 
Jack Mallory said:
Just wait until George discovers the octopus.
Click to expand...
Yes! Good point. They're smart little bastards. If they didn't starve and die after procreating, who knows what they might evolve into?

Jack Mallory said:
What's also funny is his notion that the oceans are ours. If he truly believes NHI are involved, does it ever occur to him that maybe they're asking themselves the same question about what they deem to be their oceans?
Click to expand...
If he assumes that there's something along the lines of Abyss-type creatures down there, who might have evolved there, or come here before we evolved, maybe they're seriously getting upset about what the uppity apes up here are getting up to. (and rightly so).
 
John J. said:
I don't know the show. If it has a similar approach to evidence as the Skinwalker Ranch franchise shows, I'm not sure debunking Investigation Aliens content will achieve much. My impression is that SWR-type shows are chasing ratings, they're not trying to establish the truth or advance our understanding. Like similar ghost hunting series, wherever they go, they will find "anomalous evidence".
...
George Knapp is just doing his job, earning a crust.
And because of that, whatever he actually believes on the subject, he's not going to be on Investigation Aliens saying
"But this is ridiculous! That could just be a fishing lure or LED torch in a condom, on the end of a fishing line!"
Click to expand...
"It may look like a production assistant just lowered a green water-activated fishing light into the ocean, but my back was turned and I didn't see him do it... so I can't rule out aliens."
 
Rory gave an interview on Episode 62 of Weaponized:

(24:19 - 25:05) - Rory Kremer graduated from the University of Montana in Anthropology and Archaeology, and has worked in the field for over 20 years. He also joined the Coast Guard in his youth.

(27:08 - 34:57) - Rory tells another story of a green light right underneath his boat, which emerged from the water, revealing a bright yellowish light spherical in shape. Hovered for a moment from 50ft to 100ft in the air, and then shot off at an angle. The light was said to be illuminating 200ft to 300ft around his boat when he was about 1,500 miles off Hawaii towards the West Coast.

External Quote:
( 27:08 - 28:12) - It was nighttime and I had the boat on autohelm. It was just sailing itself perfectly. It was just a really nice night, just a beautiful night, you know, no engine going, just had the radar going. So, that I could see if there were anything across my path. And sitting out there, having a drink after dinner, and all the sudden, the ocean started getting bright underneath of me. Now, I know that when the Sun deflects on the other side of the planet, it can sometimes deflect underneath of you, and I've seen that twice. And it is a weird thing to see because it is a light that is coming sideways underneath your boat. This was coming from directly underneath of me. And it kept getting brighter, and brighter, and brighter, and brighter. And the damn thing popped up out of...it was a thing that popped up out of the water. Probably, I would guess, a mile from me, something like that, and it was brighter than hell, it was bright as daylight.

(40:53 - 42:43) - Rory claims there is a nuclear missile in his family's property, and that he came across cattle and sheep mutilations in Montana.

External Quote:
(40:53 - 42:43) We got missile bases on our ranch, on our family property, and there was a period in the 70's when there was like...60's and 70's, where there was a lot of disturbance and, you'd see wild stuff in the sky. You'd still go home and see wild stuff flying around. (...) Oh yeah, we had cattle mutilations, sheep mutilations all around us during that period of time in the 70's. That was strange. -Corbell "(...) So, not many people have missile silos, or whatever you call them, on their property. I don't even know how that works". There are ICBMs, there are Minuteman missiles and the...like the one that is by our house my great-grandfather did not want on the property, but the air force came and they did "eminent domain" on this corner, this corner of one of our fields. And he met them at the door, I understand, every time they come to the door he met them with a shotgun. He was not happy, but they did "eminent domain" on that corner. And still to this day, that missile base is there. It's an ICBM Minuteman missile. I think they're Minuteman III's now. -Corbell "(...). So, whatever man, you gotta write a book. Seeing you on Netflix...So, I wanted to grill you to see your credibility because I looked at that video, and I was like, "George, everybody is going to try to mess with you, man. They are going to try to trap you, or give fake information all the time, what's going on?" So, let's jump into that."

(43:00 - 45:30) - Rory says that he was contacted by the TV show to suggest places where they might find a USO. But some of the suggestions were rejected due to cost.

(45:45 - 47:58) - Rory explains that at first there was a light in the sky when he was busy reeling in the ROV. He estimates the light was 150 yards away and that it shot off to 10 miles away in an instant.

(48:00 - 52:25) - Extended footage is played for Rory to comment on. He says the footage was recorded off the south end of Santa Rosa Island whilst they were on anchor, and that the extended footage is from when the light appeared for the first and second times. He then says several cameras were set up and left unmanned overnight, and that the camera on the bow was the one that captured the light submerging.

The extended footage (48:00 - 52:19):



(52:40 - 53:40) - Corbell asks how it could be faked. Rory responds that he thinks it would cost over a hundred thousand dollars for the TV show to fake it, as it would require a heavy-duty drone hoisting down another ROV.

(53:56 - 54:30) - Rory estimates the distance to the submerging light as three quarters of a mile, making him judge the size of the object as big enough for the three of them (Rory, Corbell and Knapp) to have a party in it.

External Quote:
(53:41 - 55:08) -Corbell "What about size? Do you have any idea from the distance of the light, what size this thing would had to be? Is it the size of a coin, or would it be the size of a car? Do you have any idea, anywhere?". The only reference you really pick up is when it gets near the surface of the water, you can see there's a distance, and I take it, probably three quarters of a mile, roughly, away from us. And it's gotta be a substantial thing. And when it goes in the water, you can see there's a substantial body of something there. You can see it almost reflects back on itself against the body of water. -Knapp "Wow, three quarters of a mile? That thing was big!". Oh yeah, it was big. Whatever it was, it was big for all three of us to have a party in there. -Corbell "That talks upon my conspiracy theories. But let me tell you some of them. First thing, I'm so on guard because George and I get fake information from different intelligence agencies all the time. So, I'm like, OK George, cheap-ass Netflix that wouldn't even go to the right place because of cost, would they do that? Would they do that? Would they, you know, get a helicopter which, you know, far away you can hear it. Would they put a weight on some kind of light, this big, apparently, and drop it down? (...)".
(55:08 - 57:08) - Rory believes the footage is unaltered because, when he got the video back from the TV production, the sound seemed continuous. He also said he can't sleep well on boats due to a fire that claimed 34 people a couple of years ago when the boat went down in the middle of the night, so he wakes up every half an hour to an hour. So, he believes he would have busted the camera crew faking it. He adds that no one was aware of the footage until almost two weeks later when a producer sent him the footage.

(57:35 - 59:00) - Corbell says that him and Knapp had instances where intelligence agencies tried to set them up, so he is worried the same could have happened in this footage, where an intelligence agency could have sent a helicopter to mess around. Rory says that no one knew they were heading for the anchor spot because it was decided in the evening, and most of the crew had no working telephones.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Lq70TY0iE
 
From @john.phil 's post above:

External Quote:

(40:53 - 42:43) We got missile bases on our ranch, on our family property,
No, there are missile bases on government property which the government obtained, forcibly, through Eminent Domain as Rory explained:

External Quote:

There are ICBMs, there are Minuteman missiles and the...like the one that is by our house my great-grandfather did not want on the property, but the air force came and they did "eminent domain" on this corner, his corner of one of our fields. And he met them at the door, I understand, every time they come to the door he met them with a shotgun. He was not happy, but they did "eminent domain" on that corner. And still to this day, that missile base is there.
Just one of those typical UFO things where something is made to sound a bit different than it really is. Hid grandfather had to forcibly sell some land to the federal government under Eminent domain, and now there is a missile base on that now government land.
 
Mick West said:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6dzSc8wCIQ


In episode 4 of the George Knapp Netflix show "Investigation Aliens", a light is shown descending into the water, where it stays at or below the surface for a while. Very little context is given. The above YouTube clip is the segment from the show. The following is all the bits of video showing the object.
View attachment 72959

Like many TV UFO clips, it's edited quite a bit so there's gaps in the video where it jumps forward a few seconds.

There seems to be two distinct segments, in one (the "dark" segment) there's no stars visible, but in another (the "stars" segment) we see a tilted horizon and stars.

The rippling of the water and the way it spreads out seem to suggest it's not that far away, or very big. Here's a rough stabilization on the water:

View attachment 72961

My #1 hypothesis here is that this is a hoax done with practical effects. A light suspended from a drone or something. I can't really see it doing anything amazing.
Click to expand...

Took a look at the first clip in Davinci Resolve. Increased exposure. At the point where the object allegedly enters the water there is an edit and missing frames. I have attached frame 01:00:13:26 and frame 01:00:13:27. These are obviously not successive, One clip ends at 26 and a different clip starts at 27. The third attachment shows frames 26 and 27 superimposed.
 

Attachments

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  • Frame01001327.png
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jarlrmai said:
Astrometry of the frame where stars are visible

https://nova.astrometry.net/user_images/11403189#annotated

View attachment 72963

Looking at Cepheus Draco and Hercules, I think this means Northern Hemisphere.

It might be possible to give a guess at time of year based on the relative rotation of asterisms? Not sure if location affects this?

~60 degree hfov ~33.6 vfov
Click to expand...

The thing is, that actual horizontal configuration of stars will occur somewhere in the northern hemisphere regardless of latitude, BUT, using Stellarium I can't get Vega and the wing star in Cygnus to go below the horizon ( in the UK they are circumpolar ) at anything higher than roughly 36 degrees latitude.
 
Scaramanga said:
...using Stellarium I can't get Vega and the wing star in Cygnus to go below the horizon ( in the UK they are circumpolar ) at anything higher than roughly 36 degrees latitude.
Click to expand...
Vega is only circumpolar above 51 degrees latitude (about the latitude of London). Below that it will set.
 
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