Kevin Day's Recollections of the Nimitz Encounters

Skeptic_Jim

New Member
Hi Mick. I just watched your interview with Kevin Day here. Thanks for looking into this event.

After that interview, have you reconsidered any of your explanations?

I'm still leaning towards an electronic warfare (laser hologram) explanation. I saw that you mentioned this towards the end of the interview, but did not give it much attention. I think it makes sense, but you do have to speculate about a hologram capable of returning radar. Maybe you prefer not to speculate this much, and I understand that. This explanation, in my opinion, is more plausible than an actual craft moving the way it was described. What do you think?

[Unused links removed, as per the Link Policy]
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
After that interview, have you reconsidered any of your explanations?
Not really, the interview mostly raised new questions about diverging accounts.

you do have to speculate about a hologram capable of returning radar.
I wouldn't put this particularly high on the list as an explanation. There does not seem to be any specific evidence that indicated that such a thing is possible now - and even less so in 2004.

It would not account for the groups of 5-10 slow-moving high altitude targets traveling 200+ miles, nor for a close-up visual on a solid object, nor would it appear black in TV mode on the ATFLIR. So really not a good explanation, even if it were possible.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
2021-02-15_10-28-01.jpg

Kevin describes the groups of 5-10 radar returns as moving at 100 knots (115 mph) from Catalina to Guadalupe. This is essentially a due south motion, consistent with his description of the group moving straight down the screen "like snow"

He describes it as moving between them and the land, but based on the Nimitz deck log, that does not seem possible.
 

saucerpilot

New Member
This was a super interesting conversation. And I hope the ambiguities can be cleared up at some point.

One of the most interesting points is that he said Fravor's intercept target was seen to be moving from the intercept location, to Fravor's cap point, and then back into formation. What was really frustrating though, is that it wasn't clear if Kevid saw that on the radar himself, or what.

When he said he wasn't glued to the console, I would have asked him, if someone else was. And who had actually seen the various maneuvers being performed on radar.

Definitely take him up on his offer to talk again. Can you ask him if he has any contact with "Poison", and whether he would be interested in getting Poison to sit down and talk?
 

Mauro

Active Member
I can undestand pretty well what Mick says, but my English skills are not enough for Kevin Day unfortunately :(. Looking forward for the transcript, but I understand it's a damn long job, so don't feel pressured, I can live without it :)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I can undestand pretty well what Mick says, but my English skills are not enough for Kevin Day unfortunately :(. Looking forward for the transcript, but I understand it's a damn long job, so don't feel pressured, I can live without it :)

I've been editing the AI generated transcript on otter.ai. It's had a first pass now, but won't be 100% accurate. You can see it here:
https://otter.ai/u/0OtR6GhjauIHKJIcAZbs5Qri1vc (synced with audio)

And attached:
 

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MarcusH

New Member
So the objects were detected by two independent radar systems? One for detecting ICBMs and the other more local? Does this fit the radar glitch hypothesis?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So the objects were detected by two independent radar systems? One for detecting ICBMs and the other more local? Does this fit the radar glitch hypothesis?
Sure fits a DEFCON 1 situation though. Multiple ballistic targets descending towards California from space?

It's a story.
 

jackfrostvc

Active Member
Guadalupe island is just over the southern most boundary of the SOCAL Range Complex- were training activities are held within
If tracks ended there, it should give you a clue as to what was going on

1623395834672.png

There's also a Mexican Marine base on Guadalupe Island

1623398271661.png
 
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MarcusH

New Member
Since the ICBM radar tracked them down from high altitude when they just “appeared from nowhere” on Kevin’s radar, the question is whether the ICBM radar also tracked them when they disappeared from Kevin’s radar. I don’t think this has been addressed. Could they have just gone straight back up again?
 

Domzh

Active Member
quick question, why is everyone rejecting the ice particles explanation? the weather officer of the uss princeton literally handed out a briefing of a weather phenomenon causing ice particles that could cause false radar tracks.

ice particles can melt and form freshly

maybe these tracks dont have anything to do at all with the tic tac itself.

association =! causation

Maybe they were a byproduct of the tic tac or the activity surrounding the tic tac
 

jackfrostvc

Active Member
quick question, why is everyone rejecting the ice particles explanation? the weather officer of the uss princeton literally handed out a briefing of a weather phenomenon causing ice particles that could cause false radar tracks.

ice particles can melt and form freshly

maybe these tracks dont have anything to do at all with the tic tac itself.

association =! causation

Maybe they were a byproduct of the tic tac or the activity surrounding the tic tac


No one apparently believed that explanation when they heard it. Ice crystals don't form a squadron and then fly at 100/140 knots horizontally to the ground over distance.
 

Domzh

Active Member
well no one (we heard of) believed it was caused by ice particles. no one (we heard of) believed the tic tac flir1 was a plane either.

kevin day is heavily into ufo and paranormal stuff, just google him. he acts as if he rejects these narratives in Micks interview but his other interviews, venture (uap explorations) and book tell another story. i know hes very experienced in his job but he also was working with this upgraded super sensitive radar for the first time, so might couldnt make sense of what the radar showed him all of a sudden. we should at least consider this possibility.

i dont say the ice travels from 80k to sea level within seconds (btw we dont have a validated source for the 80k feet, kevin day himself said he never saw them on this altitude himself but heard about it a couple days after the incident. so we should take this figure with a lot of salt).

it could have been a combination of ice particles and other objects.

or it could be a byproduct (not necessarily ice though) by the tic tac craft(s).

we shouldnt just assume they are the same thing, this is what ufo believers do all the time. they interlink "sightings since hundreds of years" and their attributes as if its sure it was the same phenomenon.

just sayin.. might helps us to include explanations that work isolated on their own but not if we mix all observations together and search for "the one thing that explains it all".

(rendlesham forrest anyone?)
 

jackfrostvc

Active Member
well no one (we heard of) believed it was caused by ice particles. no one (we heard of) believed the tic tac flir1 was a plane either.

kevin day is heavily into ufo and paranormal stuff, just google him. he acts as if he rejects these narratives in Micks interview but his other interviews, venture (uap explorations) and book tell another story. i know hes very experienced in his job but he also was working with this upgraded super sensitive radar for the first time, so might couldnt make sense of what the radar showed him all of a sudden. we should at least consider this possibility.

i dont say the ice travels from 80k to sea level within seconds (btw we dont have a validated source for the 80k feet, kevin day himself said he never saw them on this altitude himself but heard about it a couple days after the incident. so we should take this figure with a lot of salt).

it could have been a combination of ice particles and other objects.

or it could be a byproduct (not necessarily ice though) by the tic tac craft(s).

we shouldnt just assume they are the same thing, this is what ufo believers do all the time. they interlink "sightings since hundreds of years" and their attributes as if its sure it was the same phenomenon.

just sayin.. might helps us to include explanations that work isolated on their own but not if we mix all observations together and search for "the one thing that explains it all".

(rendlesham forrest anyone?)

Lets explore it the other way around. Let's just say it was a cover story. That would tell you they were ok with coming up with a story to cover for one aspect of the event. And if they would do it for one aspect, they could do it for other aspects ie the Tic Tac. ie What if for example - it was a near miss with Douglas Kurth and the Tic Tac crazy story is some nutso story they concocted as sort of half joke at the time like ice crystals from 80k feet that suddenly fly horizontally

See what I mean

Don't forget they ran 505 C2W exercises in the area that financial year the Tic Tac event happened

It was mostly a reference to EW exercises they conducted, but look what else C2W is as per below:

1623413242090.png
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Since the ICBM radar tracked them down from high altitude
I don't think that's ever really been established beyond a story from Kevin Day. It sounds super unlikely that such a thing would be just brushed aside - seeing as it sounds literally just like a nuclear attack.
 

MarcusH

New Member
I don't think that's ever really been established beyond a story from Kevin Day. It sounds super unlikely that such a thing would be just brushed aside - seeing as it sounds literally just like a nuclear attack.
It would therefore be very fruitful perhaps to take up Kevin’s offer to try to get some of these guys to join him on another interview with you. Investigating this side of the story would add a whole new dimension.
 

Domzh

Active Member
damnit no matter who you ask, the testimonials are all over the place, its ridiculous. of course its 17 years later. thats why it would be important to have all three of them (who came out and were somehow first hand witnesses) together so we can see if they agree on details, remember something new and we actually get a story thats "in line" to work with

but i highly doubt it this will ever happen. too many hidden agendas by now
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
thats why it would be important to have all three of them (who came out and were somehow first hand witnesses) together so we can see if they agree on details, remember something new and we actually get a story thats "in line" to work with
If you want to verify their stories, then really you need to first get them apart to tell them in depth. People sitting in a room together might disagree, but they might also converge on points that are unclear in recollection.

That ship has probably sailed.
 

folly4

Member
If you want to verify their stories, then really you need to first get them apart to tell them in depth. People sitting in a room together might disagree, but they might also converge on points that are unclear in recollection.

That ship has probably sailed.

Yep.

Ideally, we want independent testimony and reports. From as early as possible.

The story is has evolved and been largely standardized at this point, converging around the common, accepted, orthodox version. Sometimes this is completely unintentional. Memory is problematic, and everyone is influenced by everyone else.

Kevin Day says the Tic Tac barrel rolled around Fravor at a high altitude, then dove down low to the water. He says Fravor told him this.

Fravor says his team of 4 (2 pilots and 2 WSOs), flying at 20,000+ ft, saw the Tic Tac just above sea level only after seeing the disturbance in the water.

I've seen reports with quotes from Douglas Kurth saying he was directly above Fravor at the same time the Tic Tac was present, but he didn't see it. I've seen people seeing Kurth was there before Fravor.

Who is right? Who is mistaken? Who is lying? What is reality?

The details from Fravor's story on 60 Minutes/Rogan/Lex Fridman have some momentum to become the canon for Tic Tac encounter, just because of huge viewership. Disparate accounts (from Day, Hughes, Underwood, et al) will likely lose out to the canonical Fravor account. (I predict Kevin Day will say he was mistaken about the barrel roll in the next several months, if interest in this continues. I predict other key figures—Underwood for example—will also say they were mistaken or misquoted in previous reports.)

There is also a clear solidarity I'm seeing among fighter pilots & military. Chain of command. It feels like they're going to stick together on this, and keep their story straight. It seems rare that anyone will challenge someone else's story.
 

jackfrostvc

Active Member
I wonder if today Kevin still says that about Fravor saying it barrel rolled around him

How do you tell a cylinder is barrel rolling. By those tiny appendages?
 

jackfrostvc

Active Member
Does anyone know if Kevin Day has ever said that he vectored Douglas Kurth to the Tic Tac location?

I know in a report Douglas mentions being vectored there. But where is Kevin's testimony that matches that?
 

GlobularOrb

New Member
Does anyone know if Kevin Day has ever said that he vectored Douglas Kurth to the Tic Tac location?

I know in a report Douglas mentions being vectored there. But where is Kevin's testimony that matches that?
Unfortunately I don't know the answers to either of your questions, but in the SCU Manuscript (p. 7) it is stated that Kurth was vectored by Operations Specialist Don Oktabinski. I checked out the references cited in the endnotes, but couldn't find anything in them that supported this statement.
 

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Domzh

Active Member
thats interesting! i always assumed he was vectored by kevin day such as fravor and dietrich.

so day didnt even knew that kurth was ordered to check it out as well! the aatip report stated kurth as part of red team had no coms with the fasteagle crew.

this supports a possible misID hypothesis imo
 

LorentzHall

Member
Here's his full message:

From 2004 until 2009 when I walked away from DOD out of frustration, I had tried in vain to get somebody, anybody, to listen to me. Yet, every time I tried to describe what we had witnessed out in SOCAL during TIC TAC, I was openly laughed at, made the butt of jokes, and once even asked by my then-boss just WTF I had been smoking .. at the time my concern was purely safety of flight because of objects that I knew to be real and inexplicable were in our training areas .. the very reason I had received permission from CAPT Smith to intercept them in the first place .. sociocultural stigmas about UFO's did indeed prevent me from making the case at the time .. the stigmas also cost me a 2nd career in DOD, at the least ..

I paid a very high price personally and I hold the NAVY/DOD directly responsible for their complete and utter malfeasance and gross dereliction of duty which, indeed, did nearly result in AIR-TO-AIR mishaps with unknown objects and Navy aircraft in the years that followed .. I also hold NAVY/DOD directly responsible for what I and others went through as a result of trying to uphold our own duty and simply do the job the American people paid and expected us to do .. I and others deserve a formal public apology and a redress for the costs I/we paid?

Regardless of what was or wasn't really being tracked that week, it does seem unacceptable for Day to have been ridiculed for reporting a safety of flight concern.
 
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folly4

Member
Here's his full message:



Regardless of what was or wasn't really being tracked that week, it does seem unacceptable for Day to have been ridiculed for reporting a safety of flight concern.
I think we need to be a bit more critical of Kevin Day's claims here. And not just accept them at face value.

From 2004 until 2009 when I walked away from DOD out of frustration, I had tried in vain to get somebody, anybody, to listen to me. Yet, every time I tried to describe what we had witnessed out in SOCAL during TIC TAC, I was openly laughed at, made the butt of jokes, and once even asked by my then-boss just WTF I had been smoking .. at the time my concern was purely safety of flight because of objects that I knew to be real and inexplicable were in our training areas .. the very reason I had received permission from CAPT Smith to intercept them in the first place .. sociocultural stigmas about UFO's did indeed prevent me from making the case at the time .. the stigmas also cost me a 2nd career in DOD, at the least ..

I paid a very high price personally and I hold the NAVY/DOD directly responsible for their complete and utter malfeasance and gross dereliction of duty which, indeed, did nearly result in AIR-TO-AIR mishaps with unknown objects and Navy aircraft in the years that followed .. I also hold NAVY/DOD directly responsible for what I and others went through as a result of trying to uphold our own duty and simply do the job the American people paid and expected us to do .. I and others deserve a formal public apology and a redress for the costs I/we paid?

What did he see that would make anyone "ridicule" him? He saw radar data. Blips on a screen that he said he thought were errors at first. Don't they record that? Did they need to take his word for the radar data?

He was trying to tell people what he saw on radar? Or what Fravor told him he'd seen?

Remember, Kevin Day told Mick West Fravor'd told him the Tic Tac did a "barrel roll" around his plane before diving down to the surface. (Fravor seems to say this specific claim is false.)

Was Kevin Day, like many UFO believers do, embellishing the story? Or was he unknowingly passing on embellished details?

If he was sounding the alarm about legitimate dangers and being silenced, I understand his frustration. That shouldn't happen. Period. But we don't what he said at the time.

And...does Kevin Day want the government to... cut him a check? Forgive me, but I'm getting a bit cynical about all the people trying to make money off this flap. I don't think tax dollars need to go to reparations for Kevin Day.
 
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GlobularOrb

New Member
thats interesting! i always assumed he was vectored by kevin day such as fravor and dietrich.

so day didnt even knew that kurth was ordered to check it out as well! the aatip report stated kurth as part of red team had no coms with the fasteagle crew.

this supports a possible misID hypothesis imo
I just watched the interview with Kevin Day for the first time, and thought you might find this part interesting. He talks about the confusion and his lack of situational awareness after Underwood intercepted the UAP. Day seems to suggest that he had no control over some of the other aircraft on the area, and is open to the possibility that other aircraft may have intercepted the UAP without him being aware. He's not talking about Fravor's intercept earlier, he's talking about the second sortie with Underwood, but it might still be relevant.

However, later when he's talking about Fravor again he says that he saw the UAP moving on radar from Fravor's merge plot to the CAP point (which took "several seconds"), tracked it on radar hanging out at the CAP point for a few seconds, and then tracked it rejoining the original group of 5 UAPs shortly after. I'm not sure that's helpful for your theory about Kurth's jet though.

Also this interview just made me more confused.
 
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