Just Like Gun Bans, Forced Smart Meters Is Just Bunk Right?

Regardless of whether you like Smart meters or not the fact is that in the United States we are supposed to have private property rights. Despite the fact that we don't own any property because of property taxes (i.e. so long as you can have your property taken for non-payment of the annual rent to the governmnet called property tax you don't own your house or land you are merely renting it) and have not in a very long time even though private property rights are suppose to be a fundemental right and part of our system, up until Smart meters you still did have control over your land as far as what others could do with the exception being government authorized actions like property theft called Immenent domain.

ENTER Smart Meters. Did any of you debunkers ever post somethig like "They are not forcing Smart Meters on anyone who does't want one"? Well just as with gun registration which will later become gun confiscation/gun bans, the Smart meter push is now being forced on homeowners and if you try to say no you will find your self arrested.

Hows that for a conspiracy theory? STill think nothing is going on, that theres no orchestarted effort to eliminate constitutional rights and the right of the individual in favor of those of the collective?

See Americans being arrested for refusing the Smart Meter - http://www.infowars.com/two-women-arrested-defending-home-from-smart-meter-installation/
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well, before forced smart meters, you had forced regular meters. The property rights implications are the same. There's no real change. The power company is upgrading their systems. They won't have manual meter readers in that area, so they have to upgrade the meters to continue providing service. Ignoring the supposed health and privacy concerns, I don't see an issue with private property rights. You have to have a meter, and now there's only one option for the type of meter. How is that property rights?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
you were obliged to give access to your property to allow meter readers - now you do not have to do that.

Of course you also do not have tohavethe supply in the first place - but if you do have it then the meter is the property of the utility company, and you MUST give them access to THEIR property.

What is it that you are actually complaining about??

there are existingthreads on here about smart meters:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/430-Smart-Meters-Murder
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/228-Smartmeters-and-dirty-electricity
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...e-smart-meter-arrest-20130123,0,6519967.story

They were not arrested for refusing a smart meter. They were arrested for interfering with a peace officer.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Hows that for a conspiracy theory? STill think nothing is going on, that theres no orchestarted effort to eliminate constitutional rights and the right of the individual in favor of those of the collective?
A republic, or any other form of government where citizens and/or their representatives are allowed to vote, where the majority rules, on issues that affect their society, is inherently a collective and it's also the collective rights of the citizenry along with the individual as a member of the collective, that are protected under the constitution. As a member of a constitutional democracy where the majority wins the day, one must also be willing to accept that their ideas/beliefs are in the minority and things won't always go their way. What you're advocating there BCC is more like anarchy and in fact the constitution replaced the articles of confederation primarily due to the fact that the colonies were devolving into anarchy. The Federalists were by far the majority at the time and they wrote the constitution to ensure a strong central government explicitly for the purpose of preventing anarchy. The anti-federalists libertarian ideals were, and still are, in the minority in this country.

And taxes, including property taxes, provided the revenue to finance the war for independence from England that made the constitution possible.
 

LogicAndSanity

New Member
A republic, or any other form of government where citizens and/or their representatives are allowed to vote, where the majority rules, on issues that affect their society, is inherently a collective and it's also the collective rights of the citizenry along with the individual as a member of the collective, that are protected under the constitution. As a member of a constitutional democracy where the majority wins the day, one must also be willing to accept that their ideas/beliefs are in the minority and things won't always go their way. What you're advocating there BCC is more like anarchy and in fact the constitution replaced the articles of confederation primarily due to the fact that the colonies were devolving into anarchy. The Federalists were by far the majority at the time and they wrote the constitution to ensure a strong central government explicitly for the purpose of preventing anarchy. The anti-federalists libertarian ideals were, and still are, in the minority in this country.

And taxes, including property taxes, provided the revenue to finance the war for independence from England that made the constitution possible.
The United States of America is a Constitutional Republic.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Oh good grief... I know the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic.

The first words in my comment were, "A republic, or any other form of government where citizens and/or their representatives are allowed to vote". The very next sentence I then said "As a member of a constitutional democracy where the majority wins the day", which was just describing a constitutionally protected right to vote that applies to any form of democracy, including a presidential republic... or a parliamentary republic or parliamentary monarchy, etc.
 
Well, before forced smart meters, you had forced regular meters. The property rights implications are the same. There's no real change. The power company is upgrading their systems. They won't have manual meter readers in that area, so they have to upgrade the meters to continue providing service. Ignoring the supposed health and privacy concerns, I don't see an issue with private property rights. You have to have a meter, and now there's only one option for the type of meter. How is that property rights?

Well, before forced smart meters, you had forced regular meters. The property rights implications are the same. There's no real change. The power company is upgrading their systems. They won't have manual meter readers in that area, so they have to upgrade the meters to continue providing service. Ignoring the supposed health and privacy concerns, I don't see an issue with private property rights. You have to have a meter, and now there's only one option for the type of meter. How is that property rights?
With some exceptions (areas where customers can choose their energy supplier) , you don't get to choose who provides you with power. Like water, the power is viewed but privately and publicly as a necessity, meaning its considered necessary to live. Because its a necessity there are protections & regulations limiting abuse of the service. If selecting a energy supplier were more like selecting a wireless provider then the user would have choices and the ability to seek alternatives. Even then its still a necessity.

The example I provided was a violation because the home owner was very clear that they did not want the power company coming onto their land and changing out the power meter. The energy suppliers have an obligation to their customers because (with the exception of areas were persons can choose their provider) they have a monopoly. Forcing themselves onto the persons property escorted by law enforcement goes way beyond reasonable. There is absolutely no valid excuse for forcing smart meters on those persons who don’t want them.

Just because the city says they have the right to come onto someone’s property when they deem it necessary does not make it right or even legal. Regardless of whether you believe SMART meters are a good idea or not it amazes me how many find no fault or concern wuith the fact that people are being forced to accept these things at the end of force, that force being the police, a publicly funded service.

As always thanks for being professional and courteous in your posts unlike some other commenters.
 
I still see some controversy erupting about the smart meters, but it seems to have died down.
Still:
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/meter-opponents-spread-misinformation-1.560078
Jay,

The link you provided is to a blog for which there is no commenting option (no way top refute claims made in the blog) and the story itself is just an opinion piece. As for the SMART meter debate, its far from having settled down its merely being kept out of the spotlight by the media. Why? If the end goal is to dissuade protestors and convince the general public that those who oppose SMART meters are an extremist minority then you minimize coverage of SMART meter related incidents. The media is a pro at this.

While the debunking community as a whole contends that there is no coordinated effort among main stream media to push an agenda through selective reporting I don’t think anyone including the debunkers would deny that the George Zimmerman trial was pushed by the mainstream media and given a much higher level of reporting and thereby priority over other news events including similar events were someone was murdered. The Zimmerman trial was given such high level coverage because its fit the profile that’s deigned to promote racial tensions. As far as how this relates to SMART Meters, the media is making it look like the debate is over by minimizing coverage/reporting of any story or event that is anti-SMART meter.

As far as whether the SMART meters are safe or not is a topic that is far from having been settled. Corporations have lied in the past even after having been caught lying. Our own government has been caught lying several times in our 200+ year history with the most recent being the NSA spying. Whether you believe that what the NSA is doing is legal or even OK is separate from the fact that the NSA lied to the public when it lied to Congress but a few months prior to Edward Snowden leaking what he did. The NSA has already gone back in front of Congress since and admitted to having lied. How is it the debunking community as a whole considers clams by government and private corporations to be undeniable facts and claims by others to the contrary as ‘conspiracy theories’ when both government and private corporations have been caught lying?

BTW – I’m not implying that you do this but providing some Google links on news coverage of anti-SMART meter events is not proof that the media is trying to avoid reporting on anti-SMART Meter events. You can Google just about anything and find at least a few hits on it, even within the news hits.

As always thanks for being professional and courteous in your posts unlike some other commenters.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
How is it the debunking community as a whole considers claims by government and private corporations to be undeniable facts and claims by others to the contrary as ‘conspiracy theories’ when both government and private corporations have been caught lying?
They don't. The "debunking community" goes by the weight of the evidence.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
With some exceptions (areas where customers can choose their energy supplier) , you don't get to choose who provides you with power. Like water, the power is viewed but privately and publicly as a necessity, meaning its considered necessary to live. Because its a necessity there are protections & regulations limiting abuse of the service. If selecting a energy supplier were more like selecting a wireless provider then the user would have choices and the ability to seek alternatives. Even then its still a necessity.

The example I provided was a violation because the home owner was very clear that they did not want the power company coming onto their land and changing out the power meter. The energy suppliers have an obligation to their customers because (with the exception of areas were persons can choose their provider) they have a monopoly. Forcing themselves onto the persons property escorted by law enforcement goes way beyond reasonable. There is absolutely no valid excuse for forcing smart meters on those persons who don’t want them.

Just because the city says they have the right to come onto someone’s property when they deem it necessary does not make it right or even legal. Regardless of whether you believe SMART meters are a good idea or not it amazes me how many find no fault or concern wuith the fact that people are being forced to accept these things at the end of force, that force being the police, a publicly funded service.

As always thanks for being professional and courteous in your posts unlike some other commenters.
They came on to read the old meters. How was that different?

[edit] And what if you rent? If the landlord says it's ok to go on his/her property?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Is there anyone forcing you have electricity? If you chose to have electricity provided to you then you are obligated to follow the rules of your contract with them. Don't like it, then buy a generator or find another means of power/ heat. Don't like the rules that municipality places on you, then move elsewhere.

If you want the benefits of power or of police and fire protection in a city, then you must follow their rules.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
providing some Google links on news coverage of anti-SMART meter events is not proof that the media is trying to avoid reporting on anti-SMART Meter events.
I am confused- how is showing news coverage of smart meter controversy not proof that the media is not avoiding reporting on the smart meter controversy?

this article was posted 5 hours ago:

http://castlegarsource.com/news/fortis-gets-approved-smart-meters-—-catch-25689#.UfGVcm2v-M0


Here in Norcal- the biggest energy provider- PG&E- allows consumers to opt-out of Smart Meters if they want.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
As an extreme conservative libertarian might put this...

Electricity is a convenience and a commodity, not a right. There was no electricity when the Constitution was ratified and thus no need for smart meters. If you don't want a smart meter, then don't buy electricity.
 

JeffreyNotGeoffrey

Active Member
Besides people with light and telephone poles on their property have to allow the utilities to service that equipment. Specifically when you buy the property you acknowledge to allow access to it. That said they cannot just wander into your house and make a sandwich.

Also when you own property you are then partly responsible for the upkeep at that locale. Let me guess you want civilization with your property. That means roads to and around your home, utilities to be run to it, a police force to keep the area safe, a fire department just in case, a local government to administer laws and justice, schools to occupy and develop the local youth, and libraries and museums to learn at. These things are not paid for with smiles and sunshine and farts. The city to which you pay property taxes uses that money to fund these basic services for the benefit of all. If you don't care for civilization then move to the wilderness to live alone. Best of luck on that and hope you can live simply and never have an emergency requiring outside help.
 

Clock

Senior Member.
I had my meter changed into a smart meter recently, what's the big fuss? It was the same when people had normal meters: they were complaining.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
I'm not sure why they're being referred to as "SMART meters", implying SMART is an acronym of some sort. Really, a "smart" meter just a typical power meter with a small computer attached to it. It makes complete sense that there is a push towards using them, and personally I'm excited as it means greater insight into the power usage of my home.

Why aren't people up in arms over provider-issused set top boxes or modems/routers? They're all fully functioning computers under total control of the provider company, sitting inside your house. Not only that, they are the single bottleneck through which the vast majority of your electronic communications in and out of your house will pass.

Verizon, for example, remotely checks every customer's router firmware every day(as insurance against tampering or hacking). They also routinely remotely upgrade that firmware as necessary. Ostensibly they could be install any software they like on the router, software for things like eavesdropping or censorship. They can do other things, as well. A specific, rather scary example is the fact that the routers often have dark radios on board(either not being used by the provider in general, or turned off for your plan) - with the right software, they can be enabled and used to spoof, for example, 5.8Ghz home phone base stations.
 

Clock

Senior Member.
I'm not sure why they're being referred to as "SMART meters", implying SMART is an acronym of some sort. Really, a "smart" meter just a typical power meter with a small computer attached to it.
People like overestimating the power of things. A great example are the RFiD chips that will be used to look at what we are doing all the time, when they really have no such power to do so.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
People like overestimating the power of things. A great example are the RFiD chips that will be used to look at what we are doing all the time, when they really have no such power to do so.
Although one thing a smart meter is not lacking is power. :)
 
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