JFK Magic Bullet Theory

Boston

Active Member
I've always been really curious about this one, that magic bullet theory just seems to wildly imposible it single handedly seems to have kicked off decades of speculation about what might have really happened. Again the gubment story just seems to incredibly implausible

what was it again ? a bullet that had passed through multiple people at a variety of angles, shattering multiple bones somehow, just fell out of the air onto a gurney conveniently to be found by investigators ? in pristine condition ?


I remain skeptical of the official gubment story
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've always been really curious about this one, that magic bullet theory just seems to wildly imposible it single handedly seems to have kicked off decades of speculation about what might have really happened. Again the gubment story just seems to incredibly implausible

what was it again ? a bullet that had passed through multiple people at a variety of angles, shattering multiple bones somehow, just fell out of the air onto a gurney conveniently to be found by investigators ? in pristine condition ?


I remain skeptical of the official gubment story

But experiments show it's quite plausible.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Looks very likely, doesn't it.

Well yes, the head shot was the second shot to hit him, I don't think there's really any disagreement there.

Wiki page on this isn't bad, actually. Here's a bit:

Yeah, the JFK conpiracy theory is very popular. Oliver Stone is largely responsible for that. The plainer fact are still in there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy#Shooting_in_Dealey_Plaza

According to the Warren Commission,[20] and the House Select Committee on Assassinations,[21] as President Kennedy waved to the crowds on his right with his right arm upraised on the side of the limo, a shot entered his upper back, penetrated his neck, slightly damaged a spinal vertebra and the top of his right lung, exited his throat nearly centerline just beneath his larynx, then nicked the left side of his suit tie knot. He then raised his elbows and clenched his fists in front of his face and neck, then leaned forward and towards his left. Mrs. Kennedy (already facing him) then put her arms around him in concern. Governor Connally also reacted after the same bullet penetrated his back just below his right armpit, creating an oval entry wound, impacted and destroyed four inches of his right fifth rib bone, exited his chest just below his right nipple creating a two-and-a-half inch oval sucking-air chest wound, then entered just above his right wrist, impacted and cleanly shattered his right radius bone into eight pieces, exited just below the wrist at the inner side of his right palm, and entered his left inner thigh.[2][22] The Warren Commission theorized that the "single bullet" (see single bullet theory) struck sometime between Zapruder frames 210 to 225, while the House Select Committee theorized it occurred exactly at Zapruder frame 190.[23]

Zapruder film at moment of fatal head shot
According to the Warren Commission, a second shot struck the President at Zapruder film frame 313 (the Commission made no conclusion as to whether this was the second or third bullet fired) when the presidential limousine was passing in front of the John Neely Bryan north pergola concrete structure (the House Select Committee concluded that the final shot was a fourth shot and that there were two shooters, one of whom missed). Each group concluded that this shot entered the rear of President Kennedy's head (the House Select Committee determined the entry wound to be four inches higher than the Warren Commission), then exploded out a roughly oval-shaped hole from his head's rear and right side. Head matter, brain, blood, and skull fragments, originating from Kennedy, covered the interior of the car, the inner and outer surfaces of the front glass windshield and raised sun visors, the front engine hood, the rear trunk lid, the followup Secret Service car and its driver's left arm, and motorcycle officers riding on both sides of the President behind him.[24][25]Mrs. Kennedy then reached out onto the rear trunk lid. After she crawled back into her limousine seat, both Governor Connally and Mrs. Connally heard her say more than once, "They have killed my husband," and "I have his brains in my hand."[1][2]
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But this thread is about the head shot. Feel free to start another on the Single Bullet Theory.
 

Boston

Active Member
But experiments show it's quite plausible.

nah your arguing two different things, I agreed that its possible for a melon struck with the right kind of bullet to move toward the direction of the bullets origin. I disagree that a bullet is likely to pass through multiple bodies in multiple tragectories striking and shattering numerous bones with several exit wounds required to then fall out of the gurney into investigators hands, in pristine condition.

I've done more than my share of shooting and its all about the type bullet used and its muzzle velocity in order to achieve that kinda effect. The fact that one aspect of the motion observed in the Kennedy assassination is explicable under "some" circumstances, does not negate the rest of the questions concerning events of that day.

Again I may not know what did happen that day, but we can be pretty sure of what didn't

What your quoting from the warren report became known as the magic bullet theory due to its wildly unbelievable nature to those who have some knowledge of ballistics
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
What your quoting from the warren report became known as the magic bullet theory due to its wildly unbelievable nature to those who have some knowledge of ballistics

Did you not watch the video where it was essentially recreated?
 

Grieves

Senior Member
"According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2")-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5-millimeter rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination."

What bearing does a bullet passing through bloodless, naked, armless, legless, stationary dummies to strike a rubbery cushion have on the above scenario? All that aside, they clearly didn't manage to reproduce the 'magic bullet' effect at all. Didn't even seem to get close beyond simulating the trajectory. Their excuse is hitting two 'ribs' (made of what?) instead of one, but go on to suggest that somehow doesn't botch their already less than accurate 'simulation'. And what the he'll is the story with this "wrist bar?"
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
What bearing does a bullet passing through bloodless, naked, armless, legless, stationary dummies to strike a rubbery cushion have on the above scenario? All that aside, they clearly didn't manage to reproduce the 'magic bullet' effect at all. Didn't even seem to get close beyond simulating the trajectory. Their excuse is hitting two 'ribs' (made of what?) instead of one, but go on to suggest that somehow doesn't botch their already less than accurate 'simulation'. And what the he'll is the story with this "wrist bar?"

They use the closest thing you can get to a human short of a cadaver. A human analog. The ribs are actual human ribs.

The "rubbery cushion" is a material with the same consistency as human flesh and skin, with a set of wrist bones embedded in it.

See the first video for more details.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
I don't get it. The 'magic bullet went into Kennedy's neck, exited his throat. This bullet went in his back and exited his chest and then into Connolly's back, all in a straight line. Magic? Plus it was massively deformed, didn't shatter wrist bone, (bounced off) and bounced off the thigh block.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Why weren't the dummies clothed, and why wasn't the neck-tie factored in? How was this 'wrist board' positioned? Why weren't the dummies complete, and positioned in sits, as opposed to torsos propped up on boards? This scenario seems to bear all the accuracy of a pilot episode of myth busters,and as oxy points out there's a fundamental flaw in the positioning of the wound.
 
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Boston

Active Member
Mick I don't think we're on the same page, I'm "not" talking about the head shot forcing the head to move in a counter intuitive direction
 

Boston

Active Member
What bearing does a bullet passing through bloodless, naked, armless, legless, stationary dummies to strike a rubbery cushion have on the above scenario? All that aside, they clearly didn't manage to reproduce the 'magic bullet' effect at all. Didn't even seem to get close beyond simulating the trajectory. Their excuse is hitting two 'ribs' (made of what?) instead of one, but go on to suggest that somehow doesn't botch their already less than accurate 'simulation'. And what the he'll is the story with this "wrist bar?"

I'd say it has no bearing at all. But it does seem typical to offer irrelevant and unrelated recreations in an effort to support various government positions. I even saw one recreation where they used dead pigs to try and recreate the scene. Naturally it didn't work at all, but never the less people still trotted it out as proving that bullets change direction going through a body. As if we all didn't know that already. The trick with the magic bullet theory if I remember it correctly is its gotta make a u turn at some point in mid air no less but still maintain enough kinetic energy to continue on into more flesh and break more bone. Its been a while since I've seen the diagram of just how the flight path translates into real life, and if I remember the Warren report specifically left out this diagram due to its overwhelmingly ridiculous nature. I could be mistaken about that diagram not being in the Warren report but if I remember it was one of the bitches at the time. That they deliberately excluded it from the original report.

In any case I do remember the years of controversy that erupted after the report was publicized and how pretty much nobody believed it.
 
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Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
I don't get it. The 'magic bullet went into Kennedy's neck, exited his throat. This bullet went in his back and exited his chest and then into Connolly's back, all in a straight line. Magic? Plus it was massively deformed, didn't shatter wrist bone, (bounced off) and bounced off the thigh block.
It's obvious that an exact copy of the incident cannot be made. Even if you repeatedly went back in time to Dealey Plaza and fired the same shot a thousand times, you would not produce two identical results. The video demonstrates that it is quite plausible that the shot/bullet behaved the way that it is believed that it did on the day. There is no evidence of similar quality that demonstrates that it could not have happened that way.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
The video demonstrates that it is quite plausible that the shot/bullet behaved the way that it is believed that it did on the day. There is no evidence of similar quality that demonstrates that it could not have happened that way.
These guys didn't even get the initial entry wound in the right position. They clearly selected their target-area, and it had no relation to where kennedy was shot. This 'demonstration' isn't remotely valid for that reason alone. They completely altered the parameters to suit their predetermined outcome, and even given that their outcome didn't come remotely close to reproducing the 'magic bulet'. That they claim otherwise makes it pretty clear these guys are full of it. Can you explain to me how in the world this experiment validates the magic bullet theory, other than the fact the narrative voice over says it does?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
These guys didn't even get the initial entry wound in the right position. They clearly selected their target-area, and it had no relation to where kennedy was shot. This 'demonstration' isn't remotely valid for that reason alone. They completely altered the parameters to suit their predetermined outcome, and even given that their outcome didn't come remotely close to reproducing the 'magic bulet'. That they claim otherwise makes it pretty clear these guys are full of it. Can you explain to me how in the world this experiment validates the magic bullet theory, other than the fact the narrative voice over says it does?
To be fair... They possibly didn't even know where the bullet went in as Gerald Ford changed the description of the entry wound. :rolleyes: but that would be really bad science not to check your entry wound location wouldn't it?

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n1/lonenutter.html


Figure 12. NEW YORK TIMES (3 July 1997) report on Gerald Ford.

Under these circumstances, it appears to be "piling on" to note that David W. Mantik,
M.D., Ph.D., has now demonstrated that no bullet could have entered the President's
neck at the location alleged and exited at the location alleged without impacting cervical
verteba, as Galanor's COVER-UP, Document 45, and MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA
(2000), pp. 3-4, explain.
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Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
These guys didn't even get the initial entry wound in the right position. They clearly selected their target-area, and it had no relation to where kennedy was shot. This 'demonstration' isn't remotely valid for that reason alone. They completely altered the parameters to suit their predetermined outcome, and even given that their outcome didn't come remotely close to reproducing the 'magic bulet'. That they claim otherwise makes it pretty clear these guys are full of it. Can you explain to me how in the world this experiment validates the magic bullet theory, other than the fact the narrative voice over says it does?
It doesn't. It validates the "single bullet". The "magic bullet" is terminology used by conspiracy theorists. This experiment demonstrates that the bullet could have caused the damage that it is reported to have done.

These guys didn't even get the initial entry wound in the right position.

You offer this without explanation therefore I guess you could say that it "isn't remotely valid for that reason alone". In what way do you think they got the entry wound wrong? To what degree? What are the parameters/ramifications for any change in the accuracy of this demonstration? How could this confirm that the single bullet theory is implausible?

As I pointed out in reply to Oxymoron's post, it is impossible to exactly recreate the incident. The point is....is the single bullet theory plausible? In my opinion the answer is, yes. In order to contradict this conclusion, evidence that it could not have happened in this way is essential. do you have such evidence?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
It doesn't. It validates the "single bullet". The "magic bullet" is terminology used by conspiracy theorists. This experiment demonstrates that the bullet could have caused the damage that it is reported to have done.



You offer this without explanation therefore I guess you could say that it "isn't remotely valid for that reason alone". In what way do you think they got the entry wound wrong? To what degree? What are the parameters/ramifications for any change in the accuracy of this demonstration? How could this confirm that the single bullet theory is implausible?

As I pointed out in reply to Oxymoron's post, it is impossible to exactly recreate the incident. The point is....is the single bullet theory plausible? In my opinion the answer is, yes. In order to contradict this conclusion, evidence that it could not have happened in this way is essential. do you have such evidence?
Then why bother? They have demonstrated nothing new, simply that a bullet can travel in a straight line through one body and into another. I think they 'proved' exactly what they wanted to 'prove'.

They did not get the bullet to exit Kennedy's neck as in reality but 'their' bullet exited his chest. This fact was completely ignored... that is not science, that is propaganda designed to mislead the uninformed. Will you please acknowledge this point.

Now I do not subscribe to this trajectory theory shown below as I believe the bullet impacted in the neck area and not the back, but going from Ford's amendment it would be accurate. Ergo, it is only 'bogus' in the sense that the entry wound is inaccurate, (and who's fault is that?).

NB It is no accident or error that the bullet struck the back as that is where they put the mark/target. If they wanted accuracy, why did they not mark/target the neck?

https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/mcadams.posc.mu.edu_bogus3.gif

 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You know, there's a vast body of literature on this topic. It seems a bit of a waste of time to rehash it here.

Oxy, perhaps as an exercise you could at least give the actual official story about the path of the bullet. Because the above diagram is not it.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
You know, there's a vast body of literature on this topic. It seems a bit of a waste of time to rehash it here.

Oxy, perhaps as an exercise you could at least give the actual official story about the path of the bullet. Because the above diagram is not it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory



The following description assumes that bullet CE 399 hit high, at the sixth cervical vertebra rather than the third thoracic vertebra: The 6.5 millimeter, 161 grain, round nose military style full metal jacket bullet, which was manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company and later stored nearly whole in the U.S. National Archives, was first theorized by the Warren Commission to have:

  • ballistically arced very slightly while traveling 189 ft (58 m) in a downward net angle of 19 degrees (allowing for the 3 degrees downward slope of Elm Street), after an initial supersonic rifle exit muzzle velocity of 1,850 to 2,000 feet per second (560 to 610 m/s), then entered President Kennedy's rear suit coat at about 1,700 feet per second (518 m/s),
  • impacted, then entered President Kennedy 2 inches (51 mm) to the right of his spine, creating a wound documented size of 4 millimeters by 7 millimeters in the rear of his upper back with a red-brown to black area of skin surrounding the wound, forming what is called an abrasion collar. This abrasion collar was caused by the bullet's scraping the margins of the skin on penetration and is characteristic of a gunshot wound of entrance. This abrasion collar was photographically documented to be larger at the lower margin half of the wound, which is strong evidence that the bullet's long-axis orientation at the instant of penetration was slightly upward in relation to the plane of the skin immediately surrounding the wound; however, the skin of Kennedy's upper back slopes inward, and the Croft photo (taken at Zapruder frame 162, shortly before Kennedy was hit) shows the President slumped forward. This would suggest that a shooting position above and to the rear of Kennedy was possible
  • damaged the President's first thoracic vertebra.[69] (There is debate whether the bullet itself struck the vertebra and caused this damage, or whether a pressure cavity wave created by the bullet's passage was responsible),
  • passed through his neck. Warren Exhibit CE 386[70] reported contusion (bruise) of the apex of the right lung in the region where it rises above the clavicle, and noted that, although the apex of the right lung and the parietal pleural membrane over it had been bruised, they were not penetrated. This is consistent with a bullet passing through the neck, immediately over the top tip of the right lung (the pressure wave causing bruising to both pleural membrane and apex of lung), but without penetrating the thoracic cavity, or the lung beneath.
  • After passing through the neck, the bullet exited President Kennedy's throat, at the centerline below the President's Adam's apple. Within three hours of the assassination, this neck frontal wound was described in an afternoon press conference by the Parkland trauma room #1 emergency physician, Doctor Malcolm Perry, after he attended to the frontal throat wound, as being an "entrance wound". Doctor Perry stated the neck frontal wound "appeared to be" an entrance wound three times during his press conference. However, medical researchers have found that ER doctors frequently make mistakes with regard to entrance and exit wounds, and both Perry and Dr. Carrico, the other attending ER doctor, later testified at the Warren hearing that with a full jacketed bullet the wound in the front of the throat could have been either an entrance or exit wound; the Parkland ER doctors also never examined the wound in the back and could make no comparisons with it.[71] Within nineteen hours of his press conference statement (but after the autopsy had already been completed), Doctor Perry also described via telephone to Doctor Humes, one of the three U.S. Navy Bethesda Hospital military autopsists, that the neck front wound was originally only "3 to 5 millimeters" in circular width before doctor Perry attended to the front throat wound (Humes documented Perry's "3 to 5 millimeters" wound size by writing it down during the phone conversation),
  • passed through both sides of his shirt collar-front in alignment with the collar button buttoned, about 7/8 inch below the center top collar button and collar button hole, in line with the throat wound, and with the threads in both bullet-slits forced outward, showing this to be an exit wound,[72]
  • nicked President Kennedy's tie-knot on its upper left side. Upon clearing the tie-knot the bullet had slowed to about 1,500 feet per second (457 m/s) and had started to tumble,
  • traveled the 25.5 inches (650 mm) between President Kennedy and Governor Connally,
  • impacted and entered Connally's back just below and behind his right armpit creating an 8 millimeter by 15 millimeter elliptical wound, indicating that bullet was fired from an acute angle to the entrance wound point, or that the bullet was tumbling, having hit something (presumably Kennedy); according to Connally, the impact of the bullet was very forceful. In terms of the physics of this impact, this means that the bullet imparted part of its momentum to Connally's body and therefore the bullet's momentum changed (in speed or direction or both) upon entering his body;
  • completely destroyed 127 millimeters (5 in) of Connally's fifth right rib bone as it smashed through his chest interior at a documented 10-degree anatomically downward angle, (post-operative x-rays document that some of the metal fragments remained in Connally's wrist for life and were buried with him many years later. There were no fragments seen in any chest x-rays)[73]
  • exited slightly below his right nipple, creating a 50 millimeter, sucking-air, blowout chest wound,
  • passed through Connally's shirt and suit coat front, seen in commission photos five inches (127 mm) to the right of the suit coat right lapel, and even with the lowest point of the right lapel,
  • slowed to 900 feet per second (274 m/s) (subsonic), and entered through Connally's right upper (outside) wrist, but missed his suit coat sleeve. It penetrated the doubled French cuff shirt sleeve at the wrist area but did not penetrate the cuff on exit (in 2003 Nellie Connally described in her book “From Love Field” that Connally's right hand solid-gold “Mexican peso” cufflink was struck with a bullet, and the cufflink was completely shot off during the attack. This is not evident from the physical appearance of the shirt which bears no mark, tear or hole at the cufflink area. Connally’s cufflink was apparently never found — thus never entered — into the assassination evidence),
  • broke his right radius wrist bone at its widest point, depositing metal fragments, (post-operative x-rays document that some of the metal fragments are still buried with him),
  • exited the palm (inner) side of Connally's wrist,
  • slowed to 400 feet per second (122 m/s) and entered the front side of his left thigh, creating a documented 10-millimeter nearly round wound,
  • buried itself shallowly into Connally's left thigh muscles,
  • then fell out at Parkland Hospital, perhaps when Connally was undressed,
  • landed on Connally's gurney,
  • was discovered by hospital engineer Darrell C. Tomlinson on one of two gurneys on the ground floor of the hospital. Although Tomlinson testified to the Warren Commission in 1964 that he was not sure on whose gurney he found the bullet,[74] he has gone on record independent of the Warren Report, stating that he found the bullet on the gurney next to the one that transported Connally to an operating room table on the second floor of the hospital.[citation needed]
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