Jason Sands definitely saw something, so what was it?

Jason Sands was a former US Air Force enlistee who has made some rather wild claims which have largely been dismissed by most of the UFO enthusiast community. What seems to have gone unnoticed (as far as I can tell) is that Sands did indeed see something which AARO confirmed in their Volume 1 report.

Some background. Sands was to be featured in James Fox's upcoming "documentary", "The Program". Prior to release, Sands joined a Twitter Spaces for UFO enthusiasts after one of the enthusiasts had basically outted him s the person to be featured in the "doc". He made some wild claims, which essentially amounted to:
  1. He overheard comms between some base scientists discussing aliens.
  2. He saw a craft up close and described it as having a sleek, metallic exterior, with an advanced propulsion mechanism that allowed it to maneuver effortlessly at speeds unimaginable by current aerospace standards.
  3. He was in something like the 24-and-Back program where he travelled the cosmos to fight a secret alien war or something like that.
After he "went public" with these claims in the Twitter Spaces, he was surprisingly rejected by most of the UFO enthusiasts who thought his claims were utter bullshit (very odd for this group who tend to be quick to believe anything). The backlash was so strong that even Christopher Mellon quickly put out a statement disavowing Sands and his claims AND Fox delayed the release of his "doc" while distancing himself from Sands and basically saying Sands wasn't the central focus.

What seems to have been missed in all of this, as far as I can tell, is that AARO investigated Sands claims and concluded that he saw a legit SAP that had nothing to do with aliens or reverse-engineered tech.

On p.29 of the AARO Volume 1 report, we get introduced to Sands and his claims:

"Another interviewee claimed that in the 1990s he overhead electronic communication of a conversation between two military bases where scientists claimed "aliens" were present during specialized materials testing. The interviewee also reported that on another occasion in the 1990s he observed an "unidentified flying object" at a U.S. military facility. The interviewee described the object as exhibiting a peculiar flight pattern."

On p.31 in the findings section, the AARO report says this about Sands claim 1 from above:

"Aliens Observing Material Test a Likely Misunderstanding of an Authentic, Non-UAP Program Activity: AARO determined this account most likely amounted to a misunderstanding. The conversation likely referenced a test and evaluation unit that had a nickname with "alien" connotations at the specific installation mentioned. The nature of the test described by the interviewee104 closely matched the description of a specific materials test conveyed to AARO investigators."

On p.32 in the findings section, the AARO report says this about Sands claim 2 from above:

"The UAP with Peculiar Characteristics Refers to an Authentic, Non-UAP-Related SAP: AARO was able to correlate this account with an authentic USG program because the interviewee was able to provide a relatively precise time and location of the sighting which they observed exhibiting strange characteristics. At the time the interviewee said he observed the event, DoD was conducting tests of a platform protected by a SAP. The seemingly strange characteristics reported by the interviewee match closely with the platform's characteristics, which was being tested at a military facility in the time frame the interviewee was there. This program is not related in any way to the exploitation of off-world technology."

The witness here is most definitely Jason Sands as the claims match up perfectly, though Sands apparently never made his 24-and-Back program claims to AARO or perhaps AARO left them out of the report so as to not make Sands look batshit insane.

It is somewhat ironic that Sands was roundly dismissed by the UFO enthusiast community despite being the ONLY witness who went to AARO who actually had a firsthand report to investigate. All the other witnesses were recounting second and thirdhand information, while Sands legitimately saw something strange even if he misinterpreted it as aliens.

So, my question to the community here is... what do you think he actually saw?

If this program was a SAP in the 1990s and it did, in fact, look as strange as Sands described and AARO seems to confirm in their own report, what was it?
 
Is there any description of what he claims he saw other than having a dark metallic exterior? Though given his claim to have been carried across the cosmos to fight in a secret alien war, he loses some points as a reliable witness.
 
If this program was a SAP in the 1990s and it did, in fact, look as strange as Sands described and AARO seems to confirm in their own report, what was it?

It could be any number of things. The report just says (bold by me):

External Quote:

The interviewee also reported that on another occasion in the 1990s he observed an "unidentified flying object" at a U.S. military facility. The interviewee described the object as exhibiting a peculiar flight pattern."
There is no actual description of the flight pattern or what made it "peculiar". As this was back in the '90s some of the emergent drone technology is a possible candidate, or balloons or whatever. Again there is no description of the "flight pattern". Even a completely normal flight pattern from a normal aircraft can appear "peculiar" when seen from certain vantage point.

ARRO seems to confirm it was some sort of SAP from the time, though it may no longer be classified. As for his other description, which you don't really provide a source for, but I'll take your word for it:

External Quote:
He saw a craft up close and described it as having a sleek, metallic exterior, with an advanced propulsion mechanism that allowed it to maneuver effortlessly at speeds unimaginable by current aerospace standards.
That doesn't match with what he seems to have told ARRO, so along with his other claims, it may be a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration of a nearly 30-year-old memory. Something that, as you point out, is usually lauded in the UFO world, but maybe he went just a step to far.
 
There is no actual description of the flight pattern or what made it "peculiar". As this was back in the '90s some of the emergent drone technology is a possible candidate, or balloons or whatever. Again there is no description of the "flight pattern". Even a completely normal flight pattern from a normal aircraft can appear "peculiar" when seen from certain vantage point.
The flight paths of super-maneuverable jets like the F-22 or its contender the Northrop YF-23 can be incredibly "peculiar", including appearing to completely stop and change directions mid air. Both the YF-22 (the testing version of the F-22) and the YF-23 were being tested and developed during the 90s.

One such example of an F-22


If you want your mind blown, just search for "f-22 trick flights" on YouTube
 
The flight paths of super-maneuverable jets like the F-22 or its contender the Northrop YF-23 can be incredibly "peculiar", including appearing to completely stop and change directions mid air. Both the YF-22 (the testing version of the F-22) and the YF-23 were being tested and developed during the 90s.

One such example of an F-22


If you want your mind blown, just search for "f-22 trick flights" on YouTube

The DT&E of and fly-off testing between the YF-22 and YF-23 were done at Edwards. Would be interesting to know where Mr Sands was based when he claimed to have seen the "peculiar" flight pattern.
 
Jason Sands was a former US Air Force enlistee who has made some rather wild claims which have largely been dismissed by most of the UFO enthusiast community. What seems to have gone unnoticed (as far as I can tell) is that Sands did indeed see something which AARO confirmed in their Volume 1 report.

Some background. Sands was to be featured in James Fox's upcoming "documentary", "The Program". Prior to release, Sands joined a Twitter Spaces for UFO enthusiasts after one of the enthusiasts had basically outted him s the person to be featured in the "doc". He made some wild claims, which essentially amounted to:
  1. He overheard comms between some base scientists discussing aliens.
  2. He saw a craft up close and described it as having a sleek, metallic exterior, with an advanced propulsion mechanism that allowed it to maneuver effortlessly at speeds unimaginable by current aerospace standards.
  3. He was in something like the 24-and-Back program where he travelled the cosmos to fight a secret alien war or something like that.
After he "went public" with these claims in the Twitter Spaces, he was surprisingly rejected by most of the UFO enthusiasts who thought his claims were utter bullshit (very odd for this group who tend to be quick to believe anything). The backlash was so strong that even Christopher Mellon quickly put out a statement disavowing Sands and his claims AND Fox delayed the release of his "doc" while distancing himself from Sands and basically saying Sands wasn't the central focus.

What seems to have been missed in all of this, as far as I can tell, is that AARO investigated Sands claims and concluded that he saw a legit SAP that had nothing to do with aliens or reverse-engineered tech.

On p.29 of the AARO Volume 1 report, we get introduced to Sands and his claims:

"Another interviewee claimed that in the 1990s he overhead electronic communication of a conversation between two military bases where scientists claimed "aliens" were present during specialized materials testing. The interviewee also reported that on another occasion in the 1990s he observed an "unidentified flying object" at a U.S. military facility. The interviewee described the object as exhibiting a peculiar flight pattern."

On p.31 in the findings section, the AARO report says this about Sands claim 1 from above:

"Aliens Observing Material Test a Likely Misunderstanding of an Authentic, Non-UAP Program Activity: AARO determined this account most likely amounted to a misunderstanding. The conversation likely referenced a test and evaluation unit that had a nickname with "alien" connotations at the specific installation mentioned. The nature of the test described by the interviewee104 closely matched the description of a specific materials test conveyed to AARO investigators."

On p.32 in the findings section, the AARO report says this about Sands claim 2 from above:

"The UAP with Peculiar Characteristics Refers to an Authentic, Non-UAP-Related SAP: AARO was able to correlate this account with an authentic USG program because the interviewee was able to provide a relatively precise time and location of the sighting which they observed exhibiting strange characteristics. At the time the interviewee said he observed the event, DoD was conducting tests of a platform protected by a SAP. The seemingly strange characteristics reported by the interviewee match closely with the platform's characteristics, which was being tested at a military facility in the time frame the interviewee was there. This program is not related in any way to the exploitation of off-world technology."

The witness here is most definitely Jason Sands as the claims match up perfectly, though Sands apparently never made his 24-and-Back program claims to AARO or perhaps AARO left them out of the report so as to not make Sands look batshit insane.

It is somewhat ironic that Sands was roundly dismissed by the UFO enthusiast community despite being the ONLY witness who went to AARO who actually had a firsthand report to investigate. All the other witnesses were recounting second and thirdhand information, while Sands legitimately saw something strange even if he misinterpreted it as aliens.

So, my question to the community here is... what do you think he actually saw?

If this program was a SAP in the 1990s and it did, in fact, look as strange as Sands described and AARO seems to confirm in their own report, what was it?
Jason is not a witness to UAP, he saw and overheard, as the AARO report described, a legitimate classified R&D program testing something. This is definitively an example of UAP where the "UAP" is only unidentified because the person does not know. It is not a "true UAP" in the sense, no one knows.
What he saw - the AARO report hilariously gives enough detail to actually find some tid bits there. Not the place for it but the AARO report really provides all we need to know for that, anything else is just personal curiosity that doesn't help with the answer necessarily.

Sands was discredited by the UFO community because he stepped into an issue of promoting the 23-and-back claim. So, some pockets of the UAP world still believe this, but largely, that has undergone narrative splitting enough times to develop into a definitively new narrative. The new predominate narrative relating to those sorts of "secret space programs" largely cuts at US interaction with ET (usually on planet but sometimes stretched to near earth in split forms). Most of the community, including those who developed into the predominate belief here, do recognize the falsities, or at least issues, with the old 23-and-back claims & over the years it split and developed into a new form being predominate.

There was another slimmer part of the community, mostly the former govt types, that did jump on to discredit him pretty quickly because he came out swinging with fantastical claims about his job, and, like most of them, inaccurately described his job responsibilities.
Despite the fancy "information operations" banner, every branch sees that term and its functions differently. Sands was a "Electronic Systems Security Assessment Apprentice" so, he either did 1 of 2 things: He either sat and watched communication logs to identify insider threats or hostile foreign activity, or he emulated hostile services for exercises and red team studies. Neither of these is at all what he claimed.
That same crew, of course, does the same thing with inaccurately promoting what their real jobs are, BUT, all of those guys know each other (Elizondo, Mellon, etc). Sands kind of jumped in just trying to bag in on their claims and their networking - without being part of their in-group, so, they pushed at him so people didn't "fit" him in relation to them.
 
@JMartJr @NorCal Dave @yoshy I will try to find some time later today to find his exact quotes in describing the craft and how it moved. We won't know if he made the same claims to AARO, but at least we'll have a jumping off point.

It is somewhat interesting that in the AARO claims section, AARO mentions "peculiar flight pattern", but in their findings section they mention "strange characteristics" instead of flight pattern.

Seems unlikely Sands would have described only the flight pattern and not also what the object looked like to AARO, especially given he apparently saw this while a material test was being done ("The nature of the test described by the interviewee closely matched the description of a specific materials test conveyed to AARO investigators").

But let me find the exact description when I have time later today or tomorrow.

EDIT: Here is alink to the original 6 hour interview if anyone has time to find where he talks about what the craft looked like: https://archive.org/details/jason-sands-twitter-space
 
Sands was a "Electronic Systems Security Assessment Apprentice" so, he either did 1 of 2 things: He either sat and watched communication logs to identify insider threats or hostile foreign activity, or he emulated hostile services for exercises and red team studies. Neither of these is at all what he claimed.
I am re-listening to the original interview now (link below) and right at the beginning he actually says he was doing exactly the job you say he says he didn't do. He says he was red team-ing and listening to these comms starting around the 4 min mark.

I'm 1000% not saying his claims are credible, but your assertion that he didn't accurately describe his job, at least with regards to what you say his job would have been, seems unwarranted. He seems to have described his job exactly as how you've stated it. Though perhaps he makes different claims elsewhere.

https://archive.org/details/jason-sands-twitter-space

Also, he says he went through the Congressional witness route then met with AARO then met with IC IG around 11min mark.
 
Seems unlikely Sands would have described only the flight pattern and not also what the object looked like to AARO, especially given he apparently saw this while a material test was being done


That's not what the ARRO report you provided says. The sighting of the aircraft was NOT in conjunction with the material testing (bold by me):

External Quote:

"Another interviewee claimed that in the 1990s he overhead electronic communication of a conversation between two military bases where scientists claimed "aliens" were present during specialized materials testing. The interviewee also reported that on another occasion in the 1990s he observed an "unidentified flying object" at a U.S. military facility. The interviewee described the object as exhibiting a peculiar flight pattern."
Again, it seems like he heard and saw some classified, but not alien, events back in the '90s and is now trying to climb on the bandwagon with these occurrences.
 
I am re-listening to the original interview now (link below) and right at the beginning he actually says he was doing exactly the job you say he says he didn't do. He says he was red team-ing and listening to these comms starting around the 4 min mark.

I'm 1000% not saying his claims are credible, but your assertion that he didn't accurately describe his job, at least with regards to what you say his job would have been, seems unwarranted. He seems to have described his job exactly as how you've stated it. Though perhaps he makes different claims elsewhere.

https://archive.org/details/jason-sands-twitter-space

Also, he says he went through the Congressional witness route then met with AARO then met with IC IG around 11min mark.
He did not accurately describe his job at first, no. He started to accurately describe it after he got called out and ousted by the formers- crew and everyone else. From what I recall he didn't grandly skew outside it but spoke about it ambiguously in a way that, was sort of misleading. I'm not sure if it was saved like the one above but I recall one of the earlier spaces he did, he called himself a signals analyst - that is definitively not accurate, that was an entire different AFSC at the time, nor was he a signals analyst (this would also be comint not sigint), at all, he has no relevant certifications, training, or anything. He was in a shop that did have signals analysts, but he was not one.
I'm not sure if they're deleted but if we go back to the earliest point of his Twitter it should all be there. I've been blocked since participating in that, so, can't view it atm. If you're curious about it I'll switch accounts once I get back and see if I can scroll back that far.
 
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The flight paths of super-maneuverable jets like the F-22 or its contender the Northrop YF-23 can be incredibly "peculiar", including appearing to completely stop and change directions mid air. Both the YF-22 (the testing version of the F-22) and the YF-23 were being tested and developed during the 90s.

Agreed. That and some of the other videos show it doing some wild ass stuff! Imagine seeing that 30 years ago.

It is somewhat interesting that in the AARO claims section, AARO mentions "peculiar flight pattern", but in their findings section they mention "strange characteristics" instead of flight pattern.

Not really. ARRO says someone (Sands?) reported a "peculiar flight pattern":

External Quote:

The interviewee described the object as exhibiting a peculiar flight pattern.
They appear to be using the language of the interviewee. Then they found that the interviewee was at the right place and the right time to have observed an SAP program. They refer to the "peculiar flight pattern", as "SEEMINGLY strange characteristics" that were similar to the characteristics of the probable platform observed:

External Quote:
The seemingly strange characteristics reported by the interviewee match closely with the platform's characteristics,
I don't see anything unusual or conspiratorial in the wording.
 
He was in something like the 24-and-Back program where he travelled the cosmos to fight a secret alien war or something like that.
Perhaps someone could give some details on this 'program'? I've never heard of it.
It sounds like pure fantasy, and if Sands maintains he was involved in it, that casts doubts on everything else he says.
 
I have, however, heard of the Serpo hoax.
https://badufos.blogspot.com/2019/03/aawsap-meets-serpo-hoax.html

External Quote:

Twelve military personnel were carefully selected for a ten year stay on Serpo. The ten men and two women were specialists in various fields and their task was to gather as much information as possible, regarding all aspects of life, society and technology on the alien planet. They were three years late and four people short when they finally returned in 1978. Two men had died on the alien planet. One man and one woman had decided to stay. The journey to Serpo, located 37 light years from Earth, took only nine months aboard the alien craft.
 
The witness here is most definitely Jason Sands as the claims match up perfectly,

Actually, while this appears likely, it is not "most definite". What is the timeline for the recent claims by Sands? I know this was your first OP, but best practices here are to provide detailed sourcing for claims made. Specifically, this set of claims here:

  1. He overheard comms between some base scientists discussing aliens.
  2. He saw a craft up close and described it as having a sleek, metallic exterior, with an advanced propulsion mechanism that allowed it to maneuver effortlessly at speeds unimaginable by current aerospace standards.
  3. He was in something like the 24-and-Back program where he travelled the cosmos to fight a secret alien war or something like that.
After he "went public" with these claims in the Twitter Spaces, he was surprisingly rejected by most of the UFO enthusiasts who thought his claims were utter bullshit (very odd for this group who tend to be quick to believe anything). The backlash was so strong that even Christopher Mellon quickly put out a statement disavowing Sands and his claims AND Fox delayed the release of his "doc" while distancing himself from Sands and basically saying Sands wasn't the central focus.
You say only that some of this is from the "Twitter Spaces" but provide no source. Likewise, is the claim that Mellon put out some sort of statement, but there is no quote or source. Nor for the claim that Fox delayed the release of some documentary because of Sands.

If all of this took place AFTER the release of the ARRO report, it's at least possible that Sand's read through it and "borrowed" the case of someone overhearing and seeing some UAP/SAP events. Probably not likely, but possible.

What seems to have been missed in all of this, as far as I can tell, is that AARO investigated Sands claims and concluded that he saw a legit SAP that had nothing to do with aliens or reverse-engineered tech.

They investigated "somebody's" claims, and some of those claims seem to align with Sand's public claims.

though Sands apparently never made his 24-and-Back program claims to AARO or perhaps AARO left them out of the report so as to not make Sands look batshit insane.

I seriously doubt ARRO would leave out claims to protect the witness. If this bit of the ARRO report is about Sands, I'd think it more likely that he did not share his 24-and-Back claim with them or his more detailed description of the craft he supposedly saw up close enough to note it's "sleek metallic exterior". That detail would not have been likely to see when the craft was "maneuver(ing) effortlessly at speeds unimaginable by current aerospace standards".

Exactly what "speeds unimaginable by current aerospace standards" is Sands talking about. Even in the '90s, the SR71 was well known and capable of sustained Mach 2+ speeds. So, he saw something "unimaginably" faster than that and knew what the surface of it looked like.

There seems to be a lot of boiler-plate UFO tropes in his claims.
 
Perhaps someone could give some details on this 'program'? I've never heard of it.
It sounds like pure fantasy, and if Sands maintains he was involved in it, that casts doubts on everything else he says.
I thought it was covered quite well in the documentary "The Last Starfighter" (1984).

I'm sure I would have been recruited for the fight myself, if I'd only had enough quarters to complete my training at the mall.
 
Does he elaborate on what possible use a numerically limited group of technologically inferior humans would have in some sort of interstellar war?
 
The DT&E of and fly-off testing between the YF-22 and YF-23 were done at Edwards. Would be interesting to know where Mr Sands was based when he claimed to have seen the "peculiar" flight pattern.

I don't believe there was any post stall maneuvers during the fly off.

Maybe something like the X-29, X-31 or F-15 ACTIVE?

X-36 was around by the late 90's.

Or a "black world" equivalent as those were all in the open.
 
It is somewhat interesting that in the AARO claims section, AARO mentions "peculiar flight pattern", but in their findings section they mention "strange characteristics" instead of flight pattern.

The strange characteristics of a flight pattern.
Flight patterns have characteristics.
 
I don't believe there was any post stall maneuvers during the fly off.

Maybe something like the X-29, X-31 or F-15 ACTIVE?

X-36 was around by the late 90's.

Or a "black world" equivalent as those were all in the open.
I know the "Bird of Prey" was flown out there in the mid/late 90s, and it was reported as a UFO at least once. Strange looking a/c, but not sure what Mr. Sands considers a "peculiar flight pattern" or if he knows anything about aircraft.

YF-118G-min.jpg
 
I don't believe there was any post stall maneuvers during the fly off.

Why would we assume he witnessed a "post stall maneuver"? According to ARRO, he saw a "peculiar flight pattern", whatever that means. According to the OP, he saw something maneuvering at "unimaginable speeds". As is often the case, we're left guessing as to what the witness actually saw since the descriptions are vague if not contradictory.

I think @yoshy post of the F22 was just an example of something he could have seen and been confused by. The phrase "peculiar flight pattern", if that's what was used when talking to ARRO, could be a number of things. The description of "unimaginable speed" is a different case, but also more of a standard UFO trope. And in both cases, he's reporting something from 30 years ago, so whatever he originally saw and what he's reported more recently could have morphed and confabulated into 2 very different things.
 
The witness here is most definitely Jason Sands as the claims match up perfectly, though Sands apparently never made his 24-and-Back program claims to AARO or perhaps AARO left them out of the report so as to not make Sands look batshit insane.
Since this has come up again: there is no evidence associated with this claim, so how would AARO be able to investigate it? They can ask around if there was a SAP that secretly sent aliens to other planets using ET craft, but since AARO already asked if the USG holds UAP craft, and knows it does not, then that can't go anywhere. These sorts of claims don't appear in the historical report at all.
 
Why would we assume he witnessed a "post stall maneuver"? According to ARRO, he saw a "peculiar flight pattern", whatever that means. According to the OP, he saw something maneuvering at "unimaginable speeds". As is often the case, we're left guessing as to what the witness actually saw since the descriptions are vague if not contradictory.

I was merely responding to the YF-22 & YF-23 speculation and specifically that of the post stall displays by the F-22A that Yoshy posted.

My point is that if those types of maneuvers are what may have caused the confusion, it's unlikely it was the YF-22 or YF-23 (especially the later as it didn't feature thrust vectoring).

If those types maneuvers were the issue then there were other platforms that are better candidates to look at.

As you said, people regularly mistake normal aircraft behavior as peculiar (oncoming aircraft appearing to be still/floating etc), which I find to be likely the case here as well.
 
Since this has come up again: there is no evidence associated with this claim, so how would AARO be able to investigate it? They can ask around if there was a SAP that secretly sent aliens to other planets using ET craft, but since AARO already asked if the USG holds UAP craft, and knows it does not, then that can't go anywhere. These sorts of claims don't appear in the historical report at all.
I posted what I believe to be the Sands incidents from the AARO post in my first post and AARO explains in them how they were able to track his claims back to specific programs. He gave them a location, timeframe and description of events. AARO had access to the records and was able to match his descriptions to actual SAP programs taking place at that location in that timeframe.

I was going through the 6 hour interview and trying to pull out all the relevant details, but it's laborious because the story isn't told in any order and I just haven't had 5 more hours to go through it. But it is clear that Sands basic claims are a direct match for what I've pulled out if the AARO report.

I will pull out the timestamps when I eventually have some free time since I'm sure few here will want to spend 6 hours listening to the interview.
 
I posted what I believe to be the Sands incidents from the AARO post in my first post and AARO explains in them how they were able to track his claims back to specific programs.
Yes. But that is not the context of my reply.
I responded to the observation that the "24-and-Back program" claim is not found in the AARO report.
I have noted that AARO has not included claims in the report that they couldn't investigate because they had nothing to go on.
 
Oh boy. Jason Sands. The dude is full of speculation, innuendo and the endless imaginings of his own mind. This thread just reminded that I had taken some very specific notes from one of the Twitter Spaces that he appeared in back on April, 24, 2024. Looking back on it now, it reads like a script to a second-rate comedy. If you pay attention to the precise language he uses, more often than not it just his own musings backed up by nothing at all, but he likes to present it all under the guise of his super-important government job so that the listener is supposed to give it some sort of undeserved credibility. Listening to him talk, he comes across as a classic fabulist, and little more.

That Twitter Spaces was then uploaded to YouTube:
youtube.com/watch?v=7eNortGxPrM

For your reading pleasure (my own commentary in italics).

RE: The Wilson/Davis memo:
@1:30
Jason Sands:
"There were arguments both for and against it. I am for the fact that, yes, that memo is correct and it does sound very genuine to me…I think it's legit. That's my opinion."

[In other words: He has no idea about anything. He's just guessing, as usual.]

@5:50
Steven Greenstreet: "Are you still in government?"
Jason Sands: "Yes."
Steven Greenstreet: "So, what agency are you in?"
Sands: "I would like to leave them out of that. My employer knows that I'm a whistleblower, and I promised them that I wouldn't mention them at all. I wouldn't want to do that."

[Because of course! So much "whistleblowing."]

@8:00
People Jason Sands intended to talk to:
"Leslie Keane, James Fox, Christopher Mellon…all these really great names and stuff like that."
Goes on to mention Ross Coulthart and Jeremy Corbell as people he's obviously been paying attention to.

[LOL. The jokes just write themselves.]

@19:43
On being a firsthand witness:
"Firsthand to me means you're either in the program, or you had firsthand knowledge of the program."

[Yeah, that's not what it means.]

@33:30
On NHI:
"The NHIs were not classified at all. I mean, honestly, if you think about it, if there's another civilization out there, and they are working with us, they're not gonna care what classification/guidance we use. They're going to come with their own set of laws, and they will probably/likely want to be treated like an embassy, wherever they're staying. That's kinda how they—I would imagine that's exactly how they run it. And that's what I was told how I how they run it. So that part of it is totally unclassified."

[Oh, that makes sense. All the other stuff is classified but NOT the subject of NHI. Cool story, bro.]

@36:20
On NHI beings:
"All I can say is that they don't look like us. Well, they're similar in humanoid shape that they have a head, body, arms, legs—in most cases—but I did not set any of them in front of me and do a DNA test on them."

Q: But have you seen pictures or them or video or anything like that?
Sands: "I stood three-feet from one."
Q: Alive or dead?
Sands: "Alive."
Q: The blue one?
Sands: "Yeah."

[That, ladies and gentlemen, is a liar. Straight-up, completely FOS.]

@39:05
Re: alien tech:
"I'm not a scientist but I know some of the power—the power generation and stuff like that, it was pretty huge, from what I heard. Some of things they were doing with gravity and other things were just freakin' awesome…uh, what they can do."

["From what I heard." Yes, indeed. This is "whistleblowing" in 2024.]

@40:00
Re: Historical UAP incidents:
"As for the earliest that I would know of or have pondered? Is the Roswell Incident. I do believe that actually happened. That some decisions were made during that time-frame that set up what is known as The Program today. It makes logical sense to me that that's what happened."

[Again, pure speculation. He has no idea about anything.]

@49:38
Re: NHI craft:
"I don't want to give away any classified information, but I will tell you that the pace of retrievals has been about one or two craft, every three to five years, ever since the1950s."

[OK, shall we do the math on that? At a very minimum that would be one craft, every five years, spanning seventy years. That'd be 14 crafts, minimum. If it were two crafts every three years, that would amount to roughly 45 crafts. Sounds legit. Remember, though, he doesn't want to give away any "classified information." LOL]

@56:25
Re: Origins of NHI contact:
"The Program was started from a serendipitous retrieval…

"Here it was we actually had some of their material, and some of the biologics, and I think that's what sparked it. So that was the motivation initially was just kinda like: We accidentally found it, we accidentally retrieved it, and then the NHI show up on the scene and they say, 'Hey, we know something crashed here. Where's our stuff? Are you gonna give it back?' And the response was, 'Well, let's barter about that.' And I think that's how it all kinda grew."

[Seriously? This is the most idiotic take yet. We somehow had leverage over the NHI and were bartering with them in order to return their crafts? There aren't enough 'Ls' or 'Os' on my keyboard to adequately mock this ridiculousness.]

Jason Sands is not credible. Not by a long shot.
 
I have noted that AARO has not included claims in the report that they couldn't investigate because they had nothing to go on.

I guess the curios question is would they have included something in the witness statement even if they couldn't do any investigation? So, in this case, if this is Sands making the claims to ARRO and he included the meta-material, the unusual craft AND his deployment to an alien world, would ARRO leave out part of his testimony because they can't investigate it?

I would hope that IF someone like Sands made these 3 claims to ARRO they would include of it as his claim. Then follow up with their investigation which showed the alien meta-materials, and strange craft were related to known SAPs, but the alien deployment claim cannot be investigated as there is no evidence of such a program.

If whistleblowers are going before ARRO and claiming all kinds of things, then they should be in the report as witness claims with the explanation that there was nothing to investigate.
 
I guess the curios question is would they have included something in the witness statement even if they couldn't do any investigation? So, in this case, if this is Sands making the claims to ARRO and he included the meta-material, the unusual craft AND his deployment to an alien world, would ARRO leave out part of his testimony because they can't investigate it?

I would hope that IF someone like Sands made these 3 claims to ARRO they would include of it as his claim. Then follow up with their investigation which showed the alien meta-materials, and strange craft were related to known SAPs, but the alien deployment claim cannot be investigated as there is no evidence of such a program.

If whistleblowers are going before ARRO and claiming all kinds of things, then they should be in the report as witness claims with the explanation that there was nothing to investigate.
I believe they would include statements that they could not investigate. Because the next person to make a statement might have information that can be investigated. At which point some aspects of the first statement might lend support to the second.

You don't throw away testimony just because it is not immediately fully useful, you preserve it for future consideration in light of facts that come into you possession later.
 
Yes. But that is not the context of my reply.
I responded to the observation that the "24-and-Back program" claim is not found in the AARO report.
I have noted that AARO has not included claims in the report that they couldn't investigate because they had nothing to go on.
Ah, ok. I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.
 
I guess the curios question is would they have included something in the witness statement even if they couldn't do any investigation? So, in this case, if this is Sands making the claims to ARRO and he included the meta-material, the unusual craft AND his deployment to an alien world, would ARRO leave out part of his testimony because they can't investigate it?

I would hope that IF someone like Sands made these 3 claims to ARRO they would include of it as his claim. Then follow up with their investigation which showed the alien meta-materials, and strange craft were related to known SAPs, but the alien deployment claim cannot be investigated as there is no evidence of such a program.

If whistleblowers are going before ARRO and claiming all kinds of things, then they should be in the report as witness claims with the explanation that there was nothing to investigate.
I kinda doubt he made that specific 20 and Back claim to AARO. It isn't even entirely clear he understands what was being asked in the twitter spaces interview about this topic. This is one of the major challenges in deciphering his interview.

My honest take on the guy is that he isn't very bright and likely suffers from severe depression. I don't get the same grifter or delusions-of-grandeur vibes from Sands that are so obvious with people like Elizondo and Grusch. I sense a very sad man who may have some mental health issues who genuinely saw something strange that his unwell mind and challenged intellect couldn't explain. He's consumed a lot of UFO lore and is mixing his story and what he thinks was his brush with "The Program" filtered through a jumbled mind.

For a lot of the crazy stuff attributed to him, it's never 100% clear that he understood the question properly, even when people try to ask follow up questions. He's kinda a pitiful and a little bit tragic.

He's very different from most if the typical personalities. Almost like this is a last grasp at having any kinda meaning in his life. I genuinely feel kinda bad for the guy.

That said, I only listened to this one interview and he may have gotten the grifter bug afterwards. I guess I just kinda feel a little bad for the dude whereas I have zero sympathy for any of the other non-sense peddlers.
 
I guess the curios question is would they have included something in the witness statement even if they couldn't do any investigation? So, in this case, if this is Sands making the claims to ARRO and he included the meta-material, the unusual craft AND his deployment to an alien world, would ARRO leave out part of his testimony because they can't investigate it?

I would hope that IF someone like Sands made these 3 claims to ARRO they would include of it as his claim. Then follow up with their investigation which showed the alien meta-materials, and strange craft were related to known SAPs, but the alien deployment claim cannot be investigated as there is no evidence of such a program.

If whistleblowers are going before ARRO and claiming all kinds of things, then they should be in the report as witness claims with the explanation that there was nothing to investigate.
Presumably these guys are doing multi hour interviews and AARO basically summarizes each witness with just a few sentences. So I think you can reasonably conclude that details were left out. That doesn't mean major claims were omitted, but clearly details are glossed over in the report.
 
Oh boy. Jason Sands. The dude is full of speculation, innuendo and the endless imaginings of his own mind. This thread just reminded that I had taken some very specific notes from one of the Twitter Spaces that he appeared in back on April, 24, 2024. Looking back on it now, it reads like a script to a second-rate comedy. If you pay attention to the precise language he uses, more often than not it just his own musings backed up by nothing at all, but he likes to present it all under the guise of his super-important government job so that the listener is supposed to give it some sort of undeserved credibility. Listening to him talk, he comes across as a classic fabulist, and little more.

That Twitter Spaces was then uploaded to YouTube:
youtube.com/watch?v=7eNortGxPrM

For your reading pleasure (my own commentary in italics).

RE: The Wilson/Davis memo:
@1:30
Jason Sands:
"There were arguments both for and against it. I am for the fact that, yes, that memo is correct and it does sound very genuine to me…I think it's legit. That's my opinion."

[In other words: He has no idea about anything. He's just guessing, as usual.]

@5:50
Steven Greenstreet: "Are you still in government?"
Jason Sands: "Yes."
Steven Greenstreet: "So, what agency are you in?"
Sands: "I would like to leave them out of that. My employer knows that I'm a whistleblower, and I promised them that I wouldn't mention them at all. I wouldn't want to do that."

[Because of course! So much "whistleblowing."]

@8:00
People Jason Sands intended to talk to:
"Leslie Keane, James Fox, Christopher Mellon…all these really great names and stuff like that."
Goes on to mention Ross Coulthart and Jeremy Corbell as people he's obviously been paying attention to.

[LOL. The jokes just write themselves.]

@19:43
On being a firsthand witness:
"Firsthand to me means you're either in the program, or you had firsthand knowledge of the program."

[Yeah, that's not what it means.]

@33:30
On NHI:
"The NHIs were not classified at all. I mean, honestly, if you think about it, if there's another civilization out there, and they are working with us, they're not gonna care what classification/guidance we use. They're going to come with their own set of laws, and they will probably/likely want to be treated like an embassy, wherever they're staying. That's kinda how they—I would imagine that's exactly how they run it. And that's what I was told how I how they run it. So that part of it is totally unclassified."

[Oh, that makes sense. All the other stuff is classified but NOT the subject of NHI. Cool story, bro.]

@36:20
On NHI beings:
"All I can say is that they don't look like us. Well, they're similar in humanoid shape that they have a head, body, arms, legs—in most cases—but I did not set any of them in front of me and do a DNA test on them."

Q: But have you seen pictures or them or video or anything like that?
Sands: "I stood three-feet from one."
Q: Alive or dead?
Sands: "Alive."
Q: The blue one?
Sands: "Yeah."

[That, ladies and gentlemen, is a liar. Straight-up, completely FOS.]

@39:05
Re: alien tech:
"I'm not a scientist but I know some of the power—the power generation and stuff like that, it was pretty huge, from what I heard. Some of things they were doing with gravity and other things were just freakin' awesome…uh, what they can do."

["From what I heard." Yes, indeed. This is "whistleblowing" in 2024.]

@40:00
Re: Historical UAP incidents:
"As for the earliest that I would know of or have pondered? Is the Roswell Incident. I do believe that actually happened. That some decisions were made during that time-frame that set up what is known as The Program today. It makes logical sense to me that that's what happened."

[Again, pure speculation. He has no idea about anything.]

@49:38
Re: NHI craft:
"I don't want to give away any classified information, but I will tell you that the pace of retrievals has been about one or two craft, every three to five years, ever since the1950s."

[OK, shall we do the math on that? At a very minimum that would be one craft, every five years, spanning seventy years. That'd be 14 crafts, minimum. If it were two crafts every three years, that would amount to roughly 45 crafts. Sounds legit. Remember, though, he doesn't want to give away any "classified information." LOL]

@56:25
Re: Origins of NHI contact:
"The Program was started from a serendipitous retrieval…

"Here it was we actually had some of their material, and some of the biologics, and I think that's what sparked it. So that was the motivation initially was just kinda like: We accidentally found it, we accidentally retrieved it, and then the NHI show up on the scene and they say, 'Hey, we know something crashed here. Where's our stuff? Are you gonna give it back?' And the response was, 'Well, let's barter about that.' And I think that's how it all kinda grew."

[Seriously? This is the most idiotic take yet. We somehow had leverage over the NHI and were bartering with them in order to return their crafts? There aren't enough 'Ls' or 'Os' on my keyboard to adequately mock this ridiculousness.]

Jason Sands is not credible. Not by a long shot.
I don't disagree, but read my comment above to another post about my take on Sands and tell me if you agree.

Credible is a little odd with him because he's combining all kinds of lore into his answers and making it seem like this was what he witnesses but I think he's just really dumb and not necessarily realizing what he is saying.

Did you happen to get a time stamp for how he describes the crafts movements and what it looked like?

As far as being credible, certainly these lore-infused claims are not credible. But he does seem to have seen a legit SAP that looked enough like what he described to AARO that they were able to track down the actual program. That is FAR more credible than ANY other "witness" in the AARO report.
 
I don't disagree, but read my comment above to another post about my take on Sands and tell me if you agree.

Credible is a little odd with him because he's combining all kinds of lore into his answers and making it seem like this was what he witnesses but I think he's just really dumb and not necessarily realizing what he is saying.

Did you happen to get a time stamp for how he describes the crafts movements and what it looked like?

As far as being credible, certainly these lore-infused claims are not credible. But he does seem to have seen a legit SAP that looked enough like what he described to AARO that they were able to track down the actual program. That is FAR more credible than ANY other "witness" in the AARO report.
I think you make some very astute observations, and I would probably agree with most if not all of that.

Re: describing craft movements
I'm not sure if this what you meant, but there was this:
@50:25
"There are a variety of different types. As you can imagine, if there are other civilizations out there, ya' know, just like we can have a hydrogen-powered car or gas-powered or electric…they likely have other forms of propulsion. Most of the ones I'd know of, or had heard of, are electro-magnetic in nature, or electro—ya' know, some form of it in one, way, shape or another, um…to counteract gravity."

And he does mention a bit about drones and "metallic spheres" @1:01:26
 
I think you make some very astute observations, and I would probably agree with most if not all of that.

Re: describing craft movements
I'm not sure if this what you meant, but there was this:
@50:25
"There are a variety of different types. As you can imagine, if there are other civilizations out there, ya' know, just like we can have a hydrogen-powered car or gas-powered or electric…they likely have other forms of propulsion. Most of the ones I'd know of, or had heard of, are electro-magnetic in nature, or electro—ya' know, some form of it in one, way, shape or another, um…to counteract gravity."

And he does mention a bit about drones and "metallic spheres" @1:01:26
No, I am looking for bus detailed account if the sighting. But maybe it is in a different interview. Argh.

I guess my take on Sands is that he's not clever enough to have ill-intent unlike most of the others making outrageous unsupported claims.

I'd like to better understand what he thinks he saw. Could be his blue alien was some kind of pressure suit for high altitude or high-g flying. There night actually be something interesting there for those if us interested in experimental military tech.
 
No, I am looking for bus detailed account if the sighting. But maybe it is in a different interview. Argh.

I guess my take on Sands is that he's not clever enough to have ill-intent unlike most of the others making outrageous unsupported claims.

I'd like to better understand what he thinks he saw. Could be his blue alien was some kind of pressure suit for high altitude or high-g flying. There night actually be something interesting there for those if us interested in experimental military tech.
I did a little bit of digging on this and came up with two separate transcripts of the entire talk.
I've no idea how these were generated, but a glance they appear to be accurate.
Here's a Google Docs link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19o1f5D9scWDAGBJbApScCm2tJi-22P4e01K1uFamZPo/edit?tab=t.0

And this a TwitterX post with 4 links (chapters) embedded to a more comprehensive transcript, separated by individual speakers, etc.

Source: https://x.com/FullStackLogan/status/1784738686716055610
 
Presumably these guys are doing multi hour interviews and AARO basically summarizes each witness with just a few sentences. So I think you can reasonably conclude that details were left out. That doesn't mean major claims were omitted, but clearly details are glossed over in the report.
Yes.
The AARO historical report is not reporting on witnesses. It is reporting on claims they investigated, and provides "executive summaries" of the outcomes of those investigations. Their case files would be much more detailed.
 
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