J. Marvin Herndon's chemtrail letter to San Diego City Council

Jacob Aman

New Member
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/well-known-scientist-sounds-the-alarm-on-geoengineering/

Assuming that Marvin Herndon did in fact send this letter to the San Diego City Council and Mayor's Office, as Wigington reports, does anyone know which specific rainwater analytical data or studies to which he would be referring?

I work in the environmental engineering field in the Monterey Bay area and have numerous friends who are convinced that the chemtrail conspiracy is occurring. However, I have had a very difficult time finding any air monitoring, surface water or rainwater analytical data that would indicate anomalous rises in the identified potential contaminants of concern. Looking at environmental quality data regularly, it perplexes me how folks can be targeting this issue above the many other significant and well known sources of contamination (which largely impact poorer communities, like farmworkers).

I remain open minded about this subject, and am well aware of the history and current practice of cloud seeding (I worked on organic farms for almost 10 years, some of which was in a large industrial ag setting).

Your thoughts as to what data this nuclear chemist is referring to? I hope not Dane Wiginton's data (which has been previously debunked and represents only his localized setting in Shasta).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SR1419

Senior Member.
does anyone know which specific rainwater analytical data or studies to which he would be referring?

Who knows?..."reportedly" could mean anything...Dane told him, he read it on the internet etc...As a scientist, you would think he would reference specific test results rather than rely on hearsay.

As for cloud seeding- deliberate cloud seeding to enhance precipitation has nothing to do with the white, persistent trails people see in the sky.

Are you finding barium, strontium etc...in your monitoring?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think he's simply repeating chemtrail mythology. Seems like he's been convinced by the chemtrail theory promoters, and is simply repeating their claims. I doubt he's even referring to any tests in particular - just the belief that some tests somewhere showed something.

While he's a scientist, he's well out of the mainstream. He believes in a kind of "expanding earth" theory, and thinks the current plate tectonic theory is wrong.
http://www.nuclearplanet.com/
 

Jacob Aman

New Member
Thank you for posting that interview on C2C, David.

I don't have access to C2C, but perhaps this video will stay up (not sure what your policy here at Metabunk is for posting videos that may be in copyright infringement). The discussion on problems with the scientific establishment starts at 1:20:00 and the chemtrail discussion starts at 1:33:00:


From the Coast to Coast bio of Mr. Herndon:
Also see his recent independent publication:

His planetary geology theories are intriguing, however his perspective on global warming is not unique. I have met with the mathematician Ralph Abraham, who has been a dynamical systems and chaos modeler since the late 1950s. The earliest chaos theory models were centered on weather patterns. Ralph's perspective is that the mathemical models for human generated global warming based based on dynamical systems functions that were never meant to be predictive (high degree of variables?). I suspect that Mr. Herndon is deriving his perspective on global warming from that camp.

Notes after listening to Herndon's C2C talk:
  • I don't get what Herndon is saying about the assumption that ocean temperature is assumed to be constant. I've never seen that stated.
  • He ties "Global Warming Agenda" to chemtrails, stating that the agendas are interrelated.
  • He cites mostly anecdotal evidence regarding chemtrails. "Grossly abnormal" cloud patterns in recent years in his area.
  • He states that he was "essentially excommunicated from the scientific community" after a controversial publication regarding the earth's core.
I think that it is fair to say that you are correct Mick: Herndon is well outside of the scientific mainstream and his isolation impacts his perceptions. With respect to Dane Wigington's excitement about Herndon's support of the chemtrail awareness campaign, it appears to be solely an appeal to authority, with no additional evidence (besides Herndon's visual observations of the sky in San Diego) presented.
 

Jacob Aman

New Member
Who knows?..."reportedly" could mean anything...Dane told him, he read it on the internet etc...As a scientist, you would think he would reference specific test results rather than rely on hearsay.

As for cloud seeding- deliberate cloud seeding to enhance precipitation has nothing to do with the white, persistent trails people see in the sky.

Are you finding barium, strontium etc...in your monitoring?

Yes, I used to watch cloud seeding in east of the Cascade mountains in Washington State. The cloud cover was localized and at lower elevations, and I spoke with pilots who used silver iodide to seed clouds. I was far more concerned about the 2,4-D that was being sprayed over my house.

In my work, I focus on primarily hydrogeological data; soil, soil vapor and groundwater. Sometimes I evaluate surface water and air data. My review of analytical data pertaining to chemtrails has been of regional air monitoring sites throughout California, particularly in the SF Bay Area (where my friends constantly show photos of "chemtrails"). While strontium is not often analyzed, aluminum levels are universally within historically insignificant levels.

When I have shown friends this data, they retreat to believing that the Air Board is altering the data.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Yes, I used to watch cloud seeding in east of the Cascade mountains in Washington State. The cloud cover was localized and at lower elevations, and I spoke with pilots who used silver iodide to seed clouds. I was far more concerned about the 2,4-D that was being sprayed over my house.

In my work, I focus on primarily hydrogeological data; soil, soil vapor and groundwater. Sometimes I evaluate surface water and air data. My review of analytical data pertaining to chemtrails has been of regional air monitoring sites throughout California, particularly in the SF Bay Area (where my friends constantly show photos of "chemtrails"). While strontium is not often analyzed, aluminum levels are universally within historically insignificant levels.

When I have shown friends this data, they retreat to believing that the Air Board is altering the data.


Thats really interesting- thanks for sharing.

What is their take on the relatively basic science of contrails- how/when they form and why they sometimes persist and spread...and the historical and scientific record that shows this has always happened?

Their belief that contrails "don't" persist and spread and never have is the basic premise for the whole theory
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
I think he's simply repeating chemtrail mythology. Seems like he's been convinced by the chemtrail theory promoters, and is simply repeating their claims.

I agree, Mick. He appears on the following talk radio show and promotes the latest Tanker Enemy production.

26:40 "There is a really excellent Italian video ....... on You Tube googling Tanker Enemy. It is an excellent video with much, much science in that."

Part 2 of the interview is only really relevant to the chemtrail discussion. See from 2:40.

Mind boggling phone in question to Herndon from 27:30. The claim by this poor woman doesn't seem to phase him. He only wishes that he knew more about nano-particles!


He does have a You Tube Channel. So far nothing on chemtrails.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MarvinHerndon/videos
 
After 20 years, the name of Dr Herndon has reappeared in my life in connection with the chemtrails hoax. I have just this afternoon had this exchange and cannot believe for a second that the individual with whom I am corresponding has a background in science. Sure, Herndon's "nuclear fission earth" was never taken seriously, but this is bordering on the insane. Pictures of contrails! Any commentary welcome.
 

Attachments

  • Herndon20.jpg
    Herndon20.jpg
    296 KB · Views: 238
  • Herndon21.jpg
    Herndon21.jpg
    337.5 KB · Views: 247
  • Herndon22.jpg
    Herndon22.jpg
    108.1 KB · Views: 238

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
After 20 years, the name of Dr Herndon has reappeared in my life in connection with the chemtrails hoax. I have just this afternoon had this exchange and cannot believe for a second that the individual with whom I am corresponding has a background in science. Sure, Herndon's "nuclear fission earth" was never taken seriously, but this is bordering on the insane. Pictures of contrails! Any commentary welcome.
Neil, it might be wise to edit those images to remove Herndon's address and email address?
 

L Hayes

New Member
It seems he is well known for not having evidence for his claims. Interesting article.

Crackpots, geniuses, and how to tell the difference
http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:

L Hayes

New Member
I've been doing a lot of research on this man. Several things to note. He hasn't worked in Academia ever. He has also been known to write books that never deliver any evidence to back up his claims. He owns his own business and clearly a businessman. In all these new articles and in several videos I've found he is plugging his new book heavily. His book is something "chemtrailers" would probably read because he claims the science community is covering up many things. Not only would chemtrailers buy this but so would anyone who believes in ANY conspiracy. My conclusion is he is very aware there is not one shred of evidence to support his claim and he is simply using this as a means for profit. He just wants to sell his book and since he isn't in Academia it's not like he cares about what his "peers" think. This is a total sham. He should be ashamed of himself. I'm in marketing and advertising and this has publicity stunt written all over it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've been doing a lot of research on this man. Several things to note. He hasn't worked in Academia ever. He has also been known to write books that never deliver any evidence to back up his claims. He owns his own business and clearly a businessman. In all these new articles and in several videos I've found he is plugging his new book heavily. His book is something "chemtrailers" would probably read because he claims the science community is covering up many things. Not only would chemtrailers buy this but so would anyone who believes in ANY conspiracy. My conclusion is he is very aware there is not one shred of evidence to support his claim and he is simply using this as a means for profit. He just wants to sell his book and since he isn't in Academia it's not like he cares about what his "peers" think. This is a total sham. He should be ashamed of himself. I'm in marketing and advertising and this has publicity stunt written all over it.

It does not seem like that to me. The amount of extra sales he's going to get from chemtrail believers is going to be in the single figures, if it's even greater than zero. He's retired, and I doubt he's ever made any money from his theories. It seems more likely he's simply a classic example of a "crank" scientist (someone with a highly individual theory, far outside the mainstream), and has simply been convinced the chemtrail theory is correct.

Either way, using what he says as some kind of evidence is a fallacy, and argument from false authority. This is not his area of expertise, and all he is doing is repeating the usual chemtrail arguments that were debunked many years ago.
 

L Hayes

New Member
It does not seem like that to me. The amount of extra sales he's going to get from chemtrail believers is going to be in the single figures, if it's even greater than zero. He's retired, and I doubt he's ever made any money from his theories. It seems more likely he's simply a classic example of a "crank" scientist (someone with a highly individual theory, far outside the mainstream), and has simply been convinced the chemtrail theory is correct.

Either way, using what he says as some kind of evidence is a fallacy, and argument from false authority. This is not his area of expertise, and all he is doing is repeating the usual chemtrail arguments that were debunked many years ago.

His book isn't about "Chemtrails" though. It is a book ALL conspiracy [fans] would read. That being said he knows that most people who believe in one conspiracy usually believes in all of them. The demographic is not just chemtrail believers. He knows people in conspiracies in general would buy his book. Why else would he all of a sudden come out an say he believes in them at the same time his book comes out? It makes perfect sense to me. It's stunt. He of all people should know what evidence means and he hasn't shown any. Even after several attempts to ask him.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"Herndon's Earth and the Dark Side of Science"
http://www.amazon.com/Herndons-Eart...tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1422465199&sr=1-1

The book does actually include chemtrails:




 

L Hayes

New Member
"Herndon's Earth and the Dark Side of Science"
http://www.amazon.com/Herndons-Eart...tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1422465199&sr=1-1

The book does actually include chemtrails:

I'm having trouble finding just exactly where you found this...

I see it says, "In a blog updated on June 1, 2014 and published on huffingtonpost.com , Bill Chameides, hardly a “conspiracy theorist” but the Dean of Duke University’s Nicholas School of the Environment, writes: etc etc.

Even if he does hit on the subject it's still not a book "about" chemtrails. It's much broader than that and is targeted for the conspiracy community. No question.

Here is what I see in the description on Amazon.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So given that the book includes chemtrails, I'd up my number of potential new sales. But I still think he actually believes it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The "ACDC" thing was an April Fool joke:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-chameides/obama-takes-bold-step-to_b_5069973.html
 

L Hayes

New Member
Thanks Mick. Well it is a travesty either way. Whether he is knowingly doing it or is a victim of the chemtrail propaganda. Someone with credentials like this should know to back up claims with evidence. Something he never does. I did see he has a reputation of making claims but failing to provide any facts in most of his work.
 

L Hayes

New Member
The "ACDC" thing was an April Fool joke:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-chameides/obama-takes-bold-step-to_b_5069973.html

Wow Classic... I've seen this article many times and I think the mere fact he used this April Fools article as proof should be an indication to most intellectual people that his "findings" are pure fallacy.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Wow Classic... I've seen this article many times and I think the mere fact he used this April Fools article as proof should be an indication to most intellectual people that his "findings" are pure fallacy.

It interesting that he removed the bits that were particularly silly. He wrote:

Which was reduced from this (with especially silly bits highlighted)
Which does appear to be a deliberate attempt to deceive.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Someone with credentials like this should know to back up claims with evidence. Something he never does. I did see he has a reputation of making claims but failing to provide any facts in most of his work
i havent looked into him that close, but is it possible that due to his age and his peers (ethics wise) back in the day..HE is the one being deceived?

His whole career seems to be "theoretical", which seems like a legitimate 'part' of the science process to me. Granted there were conspiracy theories (mostly the aliens) back in his day, but perhaps the idea that people PURPOSEFULLY deceive is an 'alien' concept to him.

Alot of old people look at you like "huh?" when you tell them about trolls and the current internet culture. They say things like "why would they do that?".

What's that saying? "It's hard to eteach an old dog, new tricks"

I think he probably had good intentions with his old theories, which received alot of 'negative' reviews. So it's not a stretch to imagine he believes Wigington for ex, has good intentions and is just the victim of the same backlash from the scientific community. The unappreciated genius thing.

This certainly isnt his field. And Wigington et al do kinda make it sound like they know what they are talking about. Him going to college for nuclear physics back in the 70's doesnt give him 'special' protection from being deceived in other areas of science... or by his local mechanic, plumber etc!

As far as him not remembering contrails. That's not so far fetched, you really DON't notice them until you start to specifically look for them! Same goes with all cloud types. People think they would remember but thats not true. How many things in our towns do we drive by everyday, but if asked "what color is the dumpster next to Dunkin Donuts?" we honestly would have no idea, until we specifically LOOKED.

I think he's more a victim, but probably IS enjoying the attention he is getting.... so that is preventing him from being completely objective and more skeptical. maybe.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
As far as him not remembering contrails. That's not so far fetched, you really DON't notice them until you start to specifically look for them! Same goes with all cloud types. People think they would remember but thats not true. How many things in our towns do we drive by everyday, but if asked "what color is the dumpster next to Dunkin Donuts?" we honestly would have no idea, until we specifically LOOKED.

And it sounds from what he wrote that he only just noticed them, maybe even just in 2014.

This is very common, there's two ways this can happen.

1 - It's a unusually heavy contrail day, they wonder what's making so many trails, they look it up and they find the "chemtrail" theory. Then they get really interested, so start noticing the trails a lot more.

2 - Someone tells them about "chemtrails", it sounds interesting, so they start to look for them. Shortly after they see some contrails that persist, and so they are hooked.

Either way they really only start noticing them when they hear about chemtrails. The problem (for the theory) with this is that everyone starts at different times, even people who live in the same place.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
It interesting that he removed the bits that were particularly silly. He wrote:

Which was reduced from this (with especially silly bits highlighted)
Which does appear to be a deliberate attempt to deceive.

It would be great to point out to Herndon his mistake, then ask him to explain why he did that by choosing:

1. Deliberate deception
2. Senility
3. Carelessness
4. Confirmation bias
5. Didn't give a damn
6. All of the above

He needs to be accountable for what he does.

"James Winkywinc", "tied one end of the bungee-like cords to commercial jets and the other to the jet stream and then used the jets' trajectory to pull that baby southward"...... really????
 
@Mick West

G'day Mick, I have posed that question, but the good Dr seems to have clammed up. Here's the full correspondence thus far, in chronological order.

You will probably see that I gave up being too serious near the end and maybe should not have mentioned that the conversation was being shared.

I do look forward to a reply from Dr Herndon.
 

Attachments

  • A Conversation with J Marvin Herndon.pdf
    1.3 MB · Views: 837
Last edited by a moderator:

L Hayes

New Member
Here is an interesting article written about him.
In the article it talks about how Herndon has struggled with his "research" and no one takes him seriously in the scientific community.

Here is an excerpt.
http://www.downloadtheuniverse.com/dtu/2012/07/ebooks-and-the-democratization-of-crackpottery.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:

M Bornong

Senior Member.

Hevach

Senior Member.
It's hardly due to one blog post, they're big on clickbait and don't know the meaning of the word retraction. They've had the scientific credentials of Highlights Magazine for a long time.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's hardly due to one blog post, they're big on clickbait and don't know the meaning of the word retraction. They've had the scientific credentials of Highlights Magazine for a long time.

The Huffington Post piece was an April Fool's joke, and quite an obvious one at that. As noted before, he (or someone) removed the bits of the article that made that obvious.

It interesting that he removed the bits that were particularly silly. He wrote:

Which was reduced from this (with especially silly bits highlighted)
Which does appear to be a deliberate attempt to deceive.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Wow Classic... I've seen this article many times and I think the mere fact he used this April Fools article as proof should be an indication to most intellectual people that his "findings" are pure fallacy.

It turns out that Herndon buying obvious satire is not that unusual and has scientific evidence behind it.

Some Italian reseachers found what we have all seen is that CT'ers tend to live in echo chambers and will much more often repeat satirical comments no matter how ridiculous:


I noted that in a recent broadcast Dane Wigington referenced Jim Phelps as providing credible information about commercial airliners being involved in "chemtrails". Reading Phelps claim to be "The Inventor of Chemtrails", ordinary people would quickly see that he probably has a few screws loose yet Wigington buys the enchilada:

http://www.doewatch.com/jimphelps/
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
It turns out that Herndon buying obvious satire is not that unusual and has scientific evidence behind it
your video wont play for me now.. but, i think ive mentioned before, that people from other countries often dont get sarcasm/satire AT ALL. Is Herdon American born?
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Mick West How Rogue Scientist J. Marvin Herndon Disproved the Last Resort of the Chemtrail Theory Contrails and Chemtrails 31
Mick West Debunked: J. Marvin Herndon's "Geoengineering" Articles in Current Science (India) and IJERPH Contrails and Chemtrails 355
deirdre J.Marvin Herndon tries to pass off Bird Poop as evidence of "chemtrail" spraying Contrails and Chemtrails 24
Mick West GeoengineeringWatch Chemtrail Posters fly-posted in Sydney Contrails and Chemtrails 1
Mick West Do Polls and Google Trends show Chemtrail Belief Declining? Contrails and Chemtrails 11
Mick West TFTRH 9: Joe - Former Chemtrail Conspiracist, Current New World Order Conspiracist Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 51
Mick West YouTube adds Encyclopedia Britannica article on Contrails to "Chemtrail" Videos Contrails and Chemtrails 18
StratMatt777 How to effectively talk to chemtrail folk Practical Debunking 9
Leifer Claim: magnetic dust on cars proves chemtrail fallout Contrails and Chemtrails 11
cmnit Malpensa technician whistleblower on chemtrail activities in airport Contrails and Chemtrails 10
Mick West A Conversation with "Chemtrail" activist Patrick Roddie Contrails and Chemtrails 5
Trailblazer Explained: Vatican "chemtrail spraying" coin [part of set depicting Pope's travels] Contrails and Chemtrails 4
TEEJ Claim of "UFO" interacting with "Chemtrail", Paris, France, 28th September 2016 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 2
JRBids "Chemtrail off your left wing": Air Traffic Controller Contrails and Chemtrails 18
MikeG Debunked: Air Force Verifies Chemtrails are Real Contrails and Chemtrails 6
Mick West Why "Chemtrail" Tests on the Ground Find Metals That Don't Occur Naturally Contrails and Chemtrails 14
MikeC New Zealand Ministry of Environment reply to "chemtrail" query Contrails and Chemtrails 6
MikeG Debunked: Geoengineering Killing Great Barrier Reef Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Tapir-mâché Curious-- how low can persistent contrails form? Contrails and Chemtrails 25
Trailblazer Chemtrail response from Swiss Federal Office of the Environment Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Mick West Persistent Trails Survey Shows Chemtrail Believers Only Recently Noticed Persistent Trails Contrails and Chemtrails 32
MikeC Aircraft weight and balance in the real world Contrails and Chemtrails 5
Trailblazer Another photoshopped chemtrail poster: Michael J Murphy Contrails and Chemtrails 1
Jay Reynolds Chemtrail Believers' predictions of "years left" before disaster Contrails and Chemtrails 6
A Augie Snyder's contrail/chemtrail questions Contrails and Chemtrails 18
Mick West Debunked: Rise In Respiratory Mortality from 4th to 3rd Cause of Death. "Chemtrail Flu" General Discussion 13
Trailblazer Photoshopped "chemtrail" images on Geoengineeringwatch.org Contrails and Chemtrails 76
JFDee New fuel dump "chemtrail" video [Munich, Thai Airways Flight 925] Contrails and Chemtrails 33
Critical Thinker Why we debunk and who do we reach. Practical Debunking 2
Trailblazer Identified: Chemtrails Project UK's "chemtrail plane" (Air France A340) Contrails and Chemtrails 2
Mick West Debunked: Kylie Jenner's Chemtrail Meme Tweet Contrails and Chemtrails 54
S Contrail shadow Contrails and Chemtrails 15
Trailblazer Video of helicopter leaving "chemtrail"? Contrails and Chemtrails 8
TEEJ Chemtrail Fleet - Peter A. Kirby Contrails and Chemtrails 10
cmnit Chemtrailists articles on Las Vegas Tribune (in 2005) Contrails and Chemtrails 5
Critical Thinker San Diego Chemtrail group to 'educate' & Protest Scientists/Doctors Contrails and Chemtrails 3
TWCobra Madisonstar Moon posts 59 year old photo of B47's contrailing. Contrails and Chemtrails 0
S Black exhaust, contrail, or chemtrail? Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 7
Mick West The Best Book for Explaining Contrails to Chemtrail Believers Contrails and Chemtrails 39
Husband of chemmy Help me! Wife is Chemtrailing... Contrails and Chemtrails 69
A Dr. Kirkby 2009 CERN presentation: "Clouds Seeded by Jets" [Misunderstanding by Chemtrail Theorists] Contrails and Chemtrails 28
TWCobra Chemtrail evidence that would stand up in court Contrails and Chemtrails 20
Whitebeard Claim - 'Orbs Killing Chemtrails' Contrails and Chemtrails 29
Trailblazer Debunked: "The Snake" non-commercial chemtrail plane (China Eastern A330) Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 33
Chemtrail_Follower Chemtrail Follower Escaping The Rabbit Hole 70
Peter How 'alive' is the topic of chemtrails nowadays? Contrails and Chemtrails 32
MikeC Homeopathic chemtrail detox formula Health and Quackery 25
TWCobra Very good question asked by Madison Star Moon Contrails and Chemtrails 27
Gundersen Debunked: Australian Rainwater "Chemtrail" test Contrails and Chemtrails 11
M Need help debunking a picture [Four Jets in Formation, Leaving Contrails] Contrails and Chemtrails 12
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top