J. Marvin Herndon's chemtrail letter to San Diego City Council

Jacob Aman

New Member
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/well-known-scientist-sounds-the-alarm-on-geoengineering/


Chemicals sprayed into the atmosphere do not remain suspended; they fall to contaminate the air we breathe, our rainwater, and our agricultural soil. This ongoing massive spraying taking place over San Diego represents a grave threat to me and my family, my neighbors, and all my fellow San Diegans.

Rainwater collected after intensive aerosol spraying now reportedly contains elevated levels of aluminum, barium, and strontium and likely other toxins.
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Assuming that Marvin Herndon did in fact send this letter to the San Diego City Council and Mayor's Office, as Wigington reports, does anyone know which specific rainwater analytical data or studies to which he would be referring?

I work in the environmental engineering field in the Monterey Bay area and have numerous friends who are convinced that the chemtrail conspiracy is occurring. However, I have had a very difficult time finding any air monitoring, surface water or rainwater analytical data that would indicate anomalous rises in the identified potential contaminants of concern. Looking at environmental quality data regularly, it perplexes me how folks can be targeting this issue above the many other significant and well known sources of contamination (which largely impact poorer communities, like farmworkers).

I remain open minded about this subject, and am well aware of the history and current practice of cloud seeding (I worked on organic farms for almost 10 years, some of which was in a large industrial ag setting).

Your thoughts as to what data this nuclear chemist is referring to? I hope not Dane Wiginton's data (which has been previously debunked and represents only his localized setting in Shasta).
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
does anyone know which specific rainwater analytical data or studies to which he would be referring?

Who knows?..."reportedly" could mean anything...Dane told him, he read it on the internet etc...As a scientist, you would think he would reference specific test results rather than rely on hearsay.

As for cloud seeding- deliberate cloud seeding to enhance precipitation has nothing to do with the white, persistent trails people see in the sky.

Are you finding barium, strontium etc...in your monitoring?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think he's simply repeating chemtrail mythology. Seems like he's been convinced by the chemtrail theory promoters, and is simply repeating their claims. I doubt he's even referring to any tests in particular - just the belief that some tests somewhere showed something.

While he's a scientist, he's well out of the mainstream. He believes in a kind of "expanding earth" theory, and thinks the current plate tectonic theory is wrong.
http://www.nuclearplanet.com/
 

Jacob Aman

New Member
Thank you for posting that interview on C2C, David.

I don't have access to C2C, but perhaps this video will stay up (not sure what your policy here at Metabunk is for posting videos that may be in copyright infringement). The discussion on problems with the scientific establishment starts at 1:20:00 and the chemtrail discussion starts at 1:33:00:


From the Coast to Coast bio of Mr. Herndon:
"In the latter half, physicist and chemist Dr. Marvin Herndon spoke about how the scientific community has been corrupted, the origins of variations in the Earth's climate over time, and the issue of chemtrails. Science, he argued, has been hijacked by a "malevolent political agenda," through its pushing of global warming, derived from assumption-based computer modeling. The evidence for man-made global warming is flawed-- the heat exiting Earth is increasing but not constant, 6.0+ quakes are increasing, and these factors lead to additions of C02 to the atmosphere, not human activity, he suggested.

Yet, a toxic geo-engineering program, the secretive "chemtrails" spraying, has been embarked upon presumably to combat the so-called man-made global warming by putting reflective chemicals into the atmosphere, Herndon continued. Condemning this activity, he said it poisons people with nano-particles of aluminum, barium, and other heavy metals that fall to the Earth, and evidence for this has been uncovered in tested raindrops. Living in San Diego, "you can see the jets spraying the substances out...and eventually with enough spraying, the sky becomes overcast...but these aren't clouds, George, these are chemicals," he lamented."
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Also see his recent independent publication:

His planetary geology theories are intriguing, however his perspective on global warming is not unique. I have met with the mathematician Ralph Abraham, who has been a dynamical systems and chaos modeler since the late 1950s. The earliest chaos theory models were centered on weather patterns. Ralph's perspective is that the mathemical models for human generated global warming based based on dynamical systems functions that were never meant to be predictive (high degree of variables?). I suspect that Mr. Herndon is deriving his perspective on global warming from that camp.

Notes after listening to Herndon's C2C talk:
  • I don't get what Herndon is saying about the assumption that ocean temperature is assumed to be constant. I've never seen that stated.
  • He ties "Global Warming Agenda" to chemtrails, stating that the agendas are interrelated.
  • He cites mostly anecdotal evidence regarding chemtrails. "Grossly abnormal" cloud patterns in recent years in his area.
  • He states that he was "essentially excommunicated from the scientific community" after a controversial publication regarding the earth's core.
I think that it is fair to say that you are correct Mick: Herndon is well outside of the scientific mainstream and his isolation impacts his perceptions. With respect to Dane Wigington's excitement about Herndon's support of the chemtrail awareness campaign, it appears to be solely an appeal to authority, with no additional evidence (besides Herndon's visual observations of the sky in San Diego) presented.
 

Jacob Aman

New Member
Who knows?..."reportedly" could mean anything...Dane told him, he read it on the internet etc...As a scientist, you would think he would reference specific test results rather than rely on hearsay.

As for cloud seeding- deliberate cloud seeding to enhance precipitation has nothing to do with the white, persistent trails people see in the sky.

Are you finding barium, strontium etc...in your monitoring?

Yes, I used to watch cloud seeding in east of the Cascade mountains in Washington State. The cloud cover was localized and at lower elevations, and I spoke with pilots who used silver iodide to seed clouds. I was far more concerned about the 2,4-D that was being sprayed over my house.

In my work, I focus on primarily hydrogeological data; soil, soil vapor and groundwater. Sometimes I evaluate surface water and air data. My review of analytical data pertaining to chemtrails has been of regional air monitoring sites throughout California, particularly in the SF Bay Area (where my friends constantly show photos of "chemtrails"). While strontium is not often analyzed, aluminum levels are universally within historically insignificant levels.

When I have shown friends this data, they retreat to believing that the Air Board is altering the data.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Yes, I used to watch cloud seeding in east of the Cascade mountains in Washington State. The cloud cover was localized and at lower elevations, and I spoke with pilots who used silver iodide to seed clouds. I was far more concerned about the 2,4-D that was being sprayed over my house.

In my work, I focus on primarily hydrogeological data; soil, soil vapor and groundwater. Sometimes I evaluate surface water and air data. My review of analytical data pertaining to chemtrails has been of regional air monitoring sites throughout California, particularly in the SF Bay Area (where my friends constantly show photos of "chemtrails"). While strontium is not often analyzed, aluminum levels are universally within historically insignificant levels.

When I have shown friends this data, they retreat to believing that the Air Board is altering the data.


Thats really interesting- thanks for sharing.

What is their take on the relatively basic science of contrails- how/when they form and why they sometimes persist and spread...and the historical and scientific record that shows this has always happened?

Their belief that contrails "don't" persist and spread and never have is the basic premise for the whole theory
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
I think he's simply repeating chemtrail mythology. Seems like he's been convinced by the chemtrail theory promoters, and is simply repeating their claims.

I agree, Mick. He appears on the following talk radio show and promotes the latest Tanker Enemy production.

26:40 "There is a really excellent Italian video ....... on You Tube googling Tanker Enemy. It is an excellent video with much, much science in that."

Part 2 of the interview is only really relevant to the chemtrail discussion. See from 2:40.

Mind boggling phone in question to Herndon from 27:30. The claim by this poor woman doesn't seem to phase him. He only wishes that he knew more about nano-particles!


He does have a You Tube Channel. So far nothing on chemtrails.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MarvinHerndon/videos
 
After 20 years, the name of Dr Herndon has reappeared in my life in connection with the chemtrails hoax. I have just this afternoon had this exchange and cannot believe for a second that the individual with whom I am corresponding has a background in science. Sure, Herndon's "nuclear fission earth" was never taken seriously, but this is bordering on the insane. Pictures of contrails! Any commentary welcome.
 

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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
After 20 years, the name of Dr Herndon has reappeared in my life in connection with the chemtrails hoax. I have just this afternoon had this exchange and cannot believe for a second that the individual with whom I am corresponding has a background in science. Sure, Herndon's "nuclear fission earth" was never taken seriously, but this is bordering on the insane. Pictures of contrails! Any commentary welcome.
Neil, it might be wise to edit those images to remove Herndon's address and email address?
 

L Hayes

New Member
It seems he is well known for not having evidence for his claims. Interesting article.

Crackpots, geniuses, and how to tell the difference
http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/crackpots-geniuses-and-how-t.html

Over at Download the Universe, Ars Technica science editor John Timmer reviews a science ebook whose science leaves something to be desired. Written by J. Marvin Herndon, a physicist, Indivisible Earth presents an alternate theory that ostensibly competes with plate tectonics. Instead of Earth having a molten core and a moveable crust, Herndon proposes that this planet began its existence as the core of a gas giant, like Jupiter or Saturn. Somehow, Earth lost its thick layer of gas and the small, dense core expanded, cracking as it grew into the continents we know today. What most people think are continental plate boundaries are, to Herndon, simply seams where bits of planet ripped apart from one another.

The problem is that Herndon doesn't offer a lot of evidence to support this idea.
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L Hayes

New Member
I've been doing a lot of research on this man. Several things to note. He hasn't worked in Academia ever. He has also been known to write books that never deliver any evidence to back up his claims. He owns his own business and clearly a businessman. In all these new articles and in several videos I've found he is plugging his new book heavily. His book is something "chemtrailers" would probably read because he claims the science community is covering up many things. Not only would chemtrailers buy this but so would anyone who believes in ANY conspiracy. My conclusion is he is very aware there is not one shred of evidence to support his claim and he is simply using this as a means for profit. He just wants to sell his book and since he isn't in Academia it's not like he cares about what his "peers" think. This is a total sham. He should be ashamed of himself. I'm in marketing and advertising and this has publicity stunt written all over it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've been doing a lot of research on this man. Several things to note. He hasn't worked in Academia ever. He has also been known to write books that never deliver any evidence to back up his claims. He owns his own business and clearly a businessman. In all these new articles and in several videos I've found he is plugging his new book heavily. His book is something "chemtrailers" would probably read because he claims the science community is covering up many things. Not only would chemtrailers buy this but so would anyone who believes in ANY conspiracy. My conclusion is he is very aware there is not one shred of evidence to support his claim and he is simply using this as a means for profit. He just wants to sell his book and since he isn't in Academia it's not like he cares about what his "peers" think. This is a total sham. He should be ashamed of himself. I'm in marketing and advertising and this has publicity stunt written all over it.

It does not seem like that to me. The amount of extra sales he's going to get from chemtrail believers is going to be in the single figures, if it's even greater than zero. He's retired, and I doubt he's ever made any money from his theories. It seems more likely he's simply a classic example of a "crank" scientist (someone with a highly individual theory, far outside the mainstream), and has simply been convinced the chemtrail theory is correct.

Either way, using what he says as some kind of evidence is a fallacy, and argument from false authority. This is not his area of expertise, and all he is doing is repeating the usual chemtrail arguments that were debunked many years ago.
 

L Hayes

New Member
It does not seem like that to me. The amount of extra sales he's going to get from chemtrail believers is going to be in the single figures, if it's even greater than zero. He's retired, and I doubt he's ever made any money from his theories. It seems more likely he's simply a classic example of a "crank" scientist (someone with a highly individual theory, far outside the mainstream), and has simply been convinced the chemtrail theory is correct.

Either way, using what he says as some kind of evidence is a fallacy, and argument from false authority. This is not his area of expertise, and all he is doing is repeating the usual chemtrail arguments that were debunked many years ago.

His book isn't about "Chemtrails" though. It is a book ALL conspiracy [fans] would read. That being said he knows that most people who believe in one conspiracy usually believes in all of them. The demographic is not just chemtrail believers. He knows people in conspiracies in general would buy his book. Why else would he all of a sudden come out an say he believes in them at the same time his book comes out? It makes perfect sense to me. It's stunt. He of all people should know what evidence means and he hasn't shown any. Even after several attempts to ask him.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"Herndon's Earth and the Dark Side of Science"
http://www.amazon.com/Herndons-Eart...tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1422465199&sr=1-1

The book does actually include chemtrails:

While academics debate the merits [8], the United States Government is already secretly engaged in engineering Earth: In a blog updated on June 1, 2014 and published on huffingtonpost.com , Bill Chameides, hardly a “conspiracy theorist” but the Dean of Duke University’s Nicholas School of the Environment, writes:

A heavily redacted copy of a classified report titled “America Cools Down on Climate” (ACDC)… codenamed “Rainmaker” … obtained by TheGreenGrok …. outlines the audacious plan to use commercial air traffic to mitigate the growing impacts of climate change across the United States.… The ACDC plan…“ manipulate[ s] the jet stream to a more southern trajectory during wintertime to create a polar vortex that would spawn intense snowstorms”…. “Americans will suffer this winter,” the report predicts, “but consumers will be thankful next year when the price of a Coke drops thanks to lowered
high fructose corn syrup prices spurred by a bumper corn crop”…. Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers.... but it worked…. Last winter the United States saw… the coldest winter in 20 years and snowfall breaking records in many areas of the Northeast and Midwest.

That activity was undertaken without public disclosure, understanding or informed consent. Apparently, there was little appreciation or concern for the potential health risks involved, especially to airline passengers who breathe the local air. Health risks, I submit, should be of paramount concern; no one knows whether the “flexible cords made out of nanofibers” lodge in the lungs as fibers of asbestos do, which are known to cause cancer (mesothelioma). Moreover, in this instance potential health risks are international; jet streams do not recognize political boundaries.

From the de facto admission of the above instance of geoengineering, one can reasonably infer that another operation, cloaked in secrecy, is ongoing , namely, spraying highly reflective nanoparticles into the atmosphere to reflect sunlight back into space to compensate for alleged anthropogenic global warming. Popularly referred to as “chemtrails”, there is much information on the Internet and in books, e.g., [46 ], but virtually no public admission, no understanding, no academic investigations, and no informed consent. Instead, there appears to be a systematic pattern of disinformation, efforts to brand concerned observers with the pejorative moniker, “conspiracy theorists ,” and to falsely imply that chemtrails are actually “contrails,” the formation of water/ ice condensation occasionally created by high-altitude aircraft [47].

Let me add the words of a humble naturalist and scientist practiced in observation. I have lived in the same house since 1977 and viewed the same area of the sky nearly every day. After the morning marine layer burns off, the sky in San Diego, California, USA, is often cloudless; rain is infrequent here. Over the years, I have seen on the average less than a single contrail a year, and always at great distance. Recently, though, sometimes for several days in a row, the sky is filled with chemtrails. Figures 1.7 , 1.8 , and 1.9 , August 24, 2014 photographs of the area of sky I regularly observe, show chemtrails, not contrails

The spray from one aircraft abruptly ceased in a portion of the sky where other chemtrails were being made – not a contrail occurrence. The wispy “clouds” in the background are earlier, dispersed chemtrails; eventually they will form a white haze in the sky unlike contrails, which are made of H2O. These photographs were taken early in the spraying; later in the day much of the blue sky was obscured.

To my knowledge there is no official acknowledgement of the chemtrails program, which reportedly occurs throughout the United States and over some Western European nations as well. Individuals have had post-chemtrail rainwater samples analyzed; these have been found to contain excess levels of aluminum and barium [46]. Apparently, there have been no systematic studies of health risks: One can reasonably expect adverse health consequences for children, the elderly, and those with compromised immune or respiratory systems. The long-term effects on the human population and on our planet’s biota are wholly unknown. These potentially-toxic chemtrail activities are being undertaken on the basis of very flawed and agenda-driven science. Aggressive actions are being undertaken by the United States and some Western European Governments in secret that include spraying vast quantities of high-reflectance chemicals into the atmosphere over cities and elsewhere, that form chemtrails, for the purpose of counteracting alleged anthropogenic greenhouse global warming. No one knows what potentially devastating health and environmental crises might result, including potentially triggering the onset of an ice age which would lead to wide-spread global starvation as it did during the “little ice age,” ca. 1650-1850 [48].
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Figure 1.10 November 23, 2014 photo of chemtrails and dispersed chemtrails nearly obscuring the otherwise clear blue San Diego sky with toxic chemicals. These fine particles don’t simply stay in the upper atmosphere; some are brought downward by air currents, some slowly settle out, or are brought down with rain. A reasonable person might worry about the health effects on the elderly, those with compromised immune or respiratory systems , aircraft passengers breathing the local air, children playing outdoors, and, especially, the yet to be born children within their mothers’ womb. Is the chemical spraying responsible in part for the observed increase of autism in children ? No research has been done on the consequences. Later in the day, the same portion of the blue sky was “overcast,” even more obscured by the chemical spray.
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Liars should never be trusted, whether they are elected officials, political candidates, or global warming activists. On the evening of January 30, 1933, Hitler had only been Chancellor for a few hours when Herman Goering addressed the German people by radio and announced: “A new chapter opens today and in this chapter liberty and honor will constitute the very basis of the new State.” Not long thereafter, Hitler seized the labor unions, their bank accounts, and pension assets; the very labor unions that had aided in his victory [49]. Left unabated, what new possibilities lay in store for the continual, secret aerial spraying of toxic chemicals over major cities? As proven time and time again by the Nazis, scientists engaged in a malevolent political agenda have no abiding concern for humanity. U. S. President Barack Obama’s top science advisor, John Holdren, in 1977 advocated:

Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods … it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and … it must have no effect on … pets, or livestock” [50]. Note: The “total number of people sterilized during the Nazi period … is probably nearer 400,000” [1].

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L Hayes

New Member
"Herndon's Earth and the Dark Side of Science"
http://www.amazon.com/Herndons-Eart...tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1422465199&sr=1-1

The book does actually include chemtrails:

I'm having trouble finding just exactly where you found this...

I see it says, "In a blog updated on June 1, 2014 and published on huffingtonpost.com , Bill Chameides, hardly a “conspiracy theorist” but the Dean of Duke University’s Nicholas School of the Environment, writes: etc etc.

Even if he does hit on the subject it's still not a book "about" chemtrails. It's much broader than that and is targeted for the conspiracy community. No question.

Here is what I see in the description on Amazon.
For forty years, instead of making assumption-based models, J. Marvin Herndon, Ph.D. has been making discoveries about the Earth that are securely anchored to the properties of matter and publishing them in world-class scientific journals: The consequence has been his recognizing that Earth’s early formation as a Jupiter-like gas giant makes it possible to derive virtually all of the geological and geodynamic behavior of our planet, including the origin of mountains characterized by folding, the primary initiation of fjords and submarine canyons, the origin of continents and oceans, ocean floor topography, Earth’s internal compositions, its previously unanticipated and potentially variable energy sources, the origin of its magnetic field, the origination of petroleum and natural gas deposits, and the non-anthropogenic basis of atmospheric carbon dioxide content. Furthermore, Herndon reveals the connections between Earth’s origin and the basis of similarities and differences of other planets in our Solar System, how stars including our own ignite, and the reason why the multitude of galaxies display just a few prominent patterns of luminous stars. But science is not all this book is about. J. Marvin Herndon reveals how for decades flawed U. S. Government methodologies and practices have been doing what no foreign power or terrorist organization can do: Slowly undermining, corrupting and trivializing science and science education, driving America toward third world status in science, and allowing science to be hijacked by what he terms a malevolent political agenda which poses real threats to the well-being of life on this planet.
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So given that the book includes chemtrails, I'd up my number of potential new sales. But I still think he actually believes it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The "ACDC" thing was an April Fool joke:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-chameides/obama-takes-bold-step-to_b_5069973.html
Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers (basically high-tech bungee cords) and a personnel team from the Navy, Air Force, and U.S. Weather Service. Unwitting participants included: the airline industry and anyone who took a transcontinental flight this winter. NSA expert James Winkywinc explained that the program exemplified the spirit of military/civilian partnership even if the partnership was a secret to the public participants. Through a process that remains top secret, the Navy and Air Force tied one end of the bungee-like cords to commercial jets and the other to the jet stream and then used the jets' trajectory to pull that baby southward to form the polar vortex.
[...]
With the unqualified success of ACDC, there are rumors of a summertime geoengineering exercise: Phenological Revamping and other Natural Keys, or PRANK for short. We will be writing more about that one on April 1, 2015.
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L Hayes

New Member
Thanks Mick. Well it is a travesty either way. Whether he is knowingly doing it or is a victim of the chemtrail propaganda. Someone with credentials like this should know to back up claims with evidence. Something he never does. I did see he has a reputation of making claims but failing to provide any facts in most of his work.
 

L Hayes

New Member
The "ACDC" thing was an April Fool joke:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-chameides/obama-takes-bold-step-to_b_5069973.html
Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers (basically high-tech bungee cords) and a personnel team from the Navy, Air Force, and U.S. Weather Service. Unwitting participants included: the airline industry and anyone who took a transcontinental flight this winter. NSA expert James Winkywinc explained that the program exemplified the spirit of military/civilian partnership even if the partnership was a secret to the public participants. Through a process that remains top secret, the Navy and Air Force tied one end of the bungee-like cords to commercial jets and the other to the jet stream and then used the jets' trajectory to pull that baby southward to form the polar vortex.
[...]
With the unqualified success of ACDC, there are rumors of a summertime geoengineering exercise: Phenological Revamping and other Natural Keys, or PRANK for short. We will be writing more about that one on April 1, 2015.
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Wow Classic... I've seen this article many times and I think the mere fact he used this April Fools article as proof should be an indication to most intellectual people that his "findings" are pure fallacy.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Wow Classic... I've seen this article many times and I think the mere fact he used this April Fools article as proof should be an indication to most intellectual people that his "findings" are pure fallacy.

It interesting that he removed the bits that were particularly silly. He wrote:

Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers.... but it worked
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Which was reduced from this (with especially silly bits highlighted)

Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers (basically high-tech bungee cords) and a personnel team from the Navy, Air Force, and U.S. Weather Service. Unwitting participants included: the airline industry and anyone who took a transcontinental flight this winter. NSA expert James Winkywinc explained that the program exemplified the spirit of military/civilian partnership even if the partnership was a secret to the public participants. Through a process that remains top secret, the Navy and Air Force tied one end of the bungee-like cords to commercial jets and the other to the jet stream and then used the jets' trajectory to pull that baby southward to form the polar vortex.

It may seem incredible, but it worked.
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Which does appear to be a deliberate attempt to deceive.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Someone with credentials like this should know to back up claims with evidence. Something he never does. I did see he has a reputation of making claims but failing to provide any facts in most of his work
i havent looked into him that close, but is it possible that due to his age and his peers (ethics wise) back in the day..HE is the one being deceived?

His whole career seems to be "theoretical", which seems like a legitimate 'part' of the science process to me. Granted there were conspiracy theories (mostly the aliens) back in his day, but perhaps the idea that people PURPOSEFULLY deceive is an 'alien' concept to him.

Alot of old people look at you like "huh?" when you tell them about trolls and the current internet culture. They say things like "why would they do that?".

What's that saying? "It's hard to eteach an old dog, new tricks"

I think he probably had good intentions with his old theories, which received alot of 'negative' reviews. So it's not a stretch to imagine he believes Wigington for ex, has good intentions and is just the victim of the same backlash from the scientific community. The unappreciated genius thing.

This certainly isnt his field. And Wigington et al do kinda make it sound like they know what they are talking about. Him going to college for nuclear physics back in the 70's doesnt give him 'special' protection from being deceived in other areas of science... or by his local mechanic, plumber etc!

As far as him not remembering contrails. That's not so far fetched, you really DON't notice them until you start to specifically look for them! Same goes with all cloud types. People think they would remember but thats not true. How many things in our towns do we drive by everyday, but if asked "what color is the dumpster next to Dunkin Donuts?" we honestly would have no idea, until we specifically LOOKED.

I think he's more a victim, but probably IS enjoying the attention he is getting.... so that is preventing him from being completely objective and more skeptical. maybe.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
As far as him not remembering contrails. That's not so far fetched, you really DON't notice them until you start to specifically look for them! Same goes with all cloud types. People think they would remember but thats not true. How many things in our towns do we drive by everyday, but if asked "what color is the dumpster next to Dunkin Donuts?" we honestly would have no idea, until we specifically LOOKED.

And it sounds from what he wrote that he only just noticed them, maybe even just in 2014.

Over the years, I have seen on the average less than a single contrail a year, and always at great distance. Recently, though, sometimes for several days in a row, the sky is filled with chemtrails. Figures 1.7 , 1.8 , and 1.9 , August 24, 2014 photographs of the area of sky I regularly observe, show chemtrails, not contrails
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This is very common, there's two ways this can happen.

1 - It's a unusually heavy contrail day, they wonder what's making so many trails, they look it up and they find the "chemtrail" theory. Then they get really interested, so start noticing the trails a lot more.

2 - Someone tells them about "chemtrails", it sounds interesting, so they start to look for them. Shortly after they see some contrails that persist, and so they are hooked.

Either way they really only start noticing them when they hear about chemtrails. The problem (for the theory) with this is that everyone starts at different times, even people who live in the same place.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
It interesting that he removed the bits that were particularly silly. He wrote:

Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers.... but it worked
Content from External Source
Which was reduced from this (with especially silly bits highlighted)

Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers (basically high-tech bungee cords) and a personnel team from the Navy, Air Force, and U.S. Weather Service. Unwitting participants included: the airline industry and anyone who took a transcontinental flight this winter. NSA expert James Winkywinc explained that the program exemplified the spirit of military/civilian partnership even if the partnership was a secret to the public participants. Through a process that remains top secret, the Navy and Air Force tied one end of the bungee-like cords to commercial jets and the other to the jet stream and then used the jets' trajectory to pull that baby southward to form the polar vortex.

It may seem incredible, but it worked.
Content from External Source
Which does appear to be a deliberate attempt to deceive.

It would be great to point out to Herndon his mistake, then ask him to explain why he did that by choosing:

1. Deliberate deception
2. Senility
3. Carelessness
4. Confirmation bias
5. Didn't give a damn
6. All of the above

He needs to be accountable for what he does.

"James Winkywinc", "tied one end of the bungee-like cords to commercial jets and the other to the jet stream and then used the jets' trajectory to pull that baby southward"...... really????
 
@Mick West

G'day Mick, I have posed that question, but the good Dr seems to have clammed up. Here's the full correspondence thus far, in chronological order.

You will probably see that I gave up being too serious near the end and maybe should not have mentioned that the conversation was being shared.

I do look forward to a reply from Dr Herndon.
 

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L Hayes

New Member
Here is an interesting article written about him.
In the article it talks about how Herndon has struggled with his "research" and no one takes him seriously in the scientific community.

eBooks and the democratization of crackpottery
Self-publishing to avoid peer review is now available to just about everyone. Indivisible Earthnicely demonstrates a lot of what can go wrong.
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Here is an excerpt.
http://www.downloadtheuniverse.com/dtu/2012/07/ebooks-and-the-democratization-of-crackpottery.html
"Web pages are cheap, and can make psedoscience seem very polished. (Just look at the Electric Universe site, where a bunch of "comparative mythologists" will try to convince you that gravity has little to do with the large-scale structure of the cosmos.). And, as Amazon (and later Apple) opened the door to self-published eBooks, anyone with an idea that isn't getting respect via peer review could now place it before the a large potential audience.

J. Marvin Herndon has done just that. Herndon is a physicist by training who, after spending time in the private sector, has turned his attention to planetary science. He has some ideas that, to put it mildly, are pretty fanciful. But, thanks to eBooks, he's now able to let those ideas float free of the burden of peer review. Indivisible Earth is one of several of the books Herndon has on offer, and its subtitle lays out why the scientific peerage might not greet it kindly: "Consequences of Earth's Early Formation as a Jupiter-Like Gas Giant."
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M Bornong

Senior Member.

Hevach

Senior Member.
It's hardly due to one blog post, they're big on clickbait and don't know the meaning of the word retraction. They've had the scientific credentials of Highlights Magazine for a long time.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's hardly due to one blog post, they're big on clickbait and don't know the meaning of the word retraction. They've had the scientific credentials of Highlights Magazine for a long time.

The Huffington Post piece was an April Fool's joke, and quite an obvious one at that. As noted before, he (or someone) removed the bits of the article that made that obvious.

It interesting that he removed the bits that were particularly silly. He wrote:

Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers.... but it worked
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Which was reduced from this (with especially silly bits highlighted)

Key to the program were apparently specially designed flexible cords made out of nanofibers (basically high-tech bungee cords) and a personnel team from the Navy, Air Force, and U.S. Weather Service. Unwitting participants included: the airline industry and anyone who took a transcontinental flight this winter. NSA expert James Winkywinc explained that the program exemplified the spirit of military/civilian partnership even if the partnership was a secret to the public participants. Through a process that remains top secret, the Navy and Air Force tied one end of the bungee-like cords to commercial jets and the other to the jet stream and then used the jets' trajectory to pull that baby southward to form the polar vortex.

It may seem incredible, but it worked.
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Which does appear to be a deliberate attempt to deceive.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Wow Classic... I've seen this article many times and I think the mere fact he used this April Fools article as proof should be an indication to most intellectual people that his "findings" are pure fallacy.

It turns out that Herndon buying obvious satire is not that unusual and has scientific evidence behind it.

Some Italian reseachers found what we have all seen is that CT'ers tend to live in echo chambers and will much more often repeat satirical comments no matter how ridiculous:


I noted that in a recent broadcast Dane Wigington referenced Jim Phelps as providing credible information about commercial airliners being involved in "chemtrails". Reading Phelps claim to be "The Inventor of Chemtrails", ordinary people would quickly see that he probably has a few screws loose yet Wigington buys the enchilada:

http://www.doewatch.com/jimphelps/
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
It turns out that Herndon buying obvious satire is not that unusual and has scientific evidence behind it
your video wont play for me now.. but, i think ive mentioned before, that people from other countries often dont get sarcasm/satire AT ALL. Is Herdon American born?
 
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