Italy- Will the Five Stars affect chemtrails?

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
In Italy's upcoming election, an anti-establishment party called The Five Stars Movement is running third in the polls, and is expected to make up a significant enough portion of the Parliament(~20%) to have a voice. Led by satirical comedian "Beppe" Grillo, the movement contains a significant number of chemtrail believers, including Grillo, from what I understand.

Beppe-Grillo-addresses-su-010.jpg

His blog is probably the most popular in Italy, he has drawn crowds of 100,000 and there are many conspiracy theory type views being expressed by members. I think it end up being a significant advance for chemtrails. It might be good to find a way to ally with skeptics in Italy and oppose this.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
The way in which activism on behalf of perfectly sensible subjects is derailed by pseudoscientific bullshit and heartless manipulators really is starting to get on my wick.

Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later.

I'm going to start adding vocal supporters of this party on Twitter, and any related Facebook groups, and see what attitudes I can pick up. Amongst those with whom I can communicate at any rate.

EDIT - AND Beppe Grillo looks like Noel Edmunds, which is completely unacceptable - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Edmonds
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think we need an Italian to really undersand what he's saying. Maybe he's just joking, or using it as an example of popular beliefs?

In this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1xi5JAS8VMY

The text reads:

Google Translates:

I suspect it might be like Ron Paul supporters - who frequently are fairly extreme conspiracy theorists, even if Ron Paul himself would not actually believe in things like that. Grille will attract anti-establishment folk of all stripes.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
We're discussing it on Twitter with a concerned Italian speaker at the moment. Hopefully they'll give us some insight.
 
M

Marco

Guest
Hi guys. I live in Italy and will try to explain the background of "Movimento Cinque Stelle". It is a popular movement run completely on the net, and like all popular movements it attracts bullshit-believers. Beppe Grillo is the voice of the movement, Casaleggio is considered the mind. Grillo is a famous comedian. I dont' know what he really thinks abaout pseudoscience, my concern is if he is able to control the cranks inside the party.
 

Marco

New Member
Fascism and comunism are both outdated political systems that failed completely. No, I don't like Forza Italia (now PDL: Partito delle libertà=Freedom party). The problem is there isn't actually a party in Italy representing my thoughts.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Specific questions?
Yes, please translate what Grillo is saying in the video:



I see the chemtrails hoax is being promoted on the Grillo forums:
http://translate.google.com/transla...3/02/basta-scie-chimiche-stop-chemtrails.html

The question really is, does Beppe Grillo believe in chemtrails?

I don't speak any Italian, but it is close to the Spanish I do understand, and I hear him say "machina militar" (military machines), and "chimici oscura" (obscuring chemicals) and "controli di mente" (mind control). I get the impression he is repeating the same memes we hear constantly.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
More on Cassaleggio, "The Mind":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/03/italy-five-star-movement-internet

A word you can translate: vaffanculo, common expression of the movement


"The Arrival of the Miracle of
Direct Democracy"
"Instead of the party, the Score"-


casaleggio Mannelli.jpg

It seems there will be plenty of cranks inside the movement. If the leadership denounces cranks, it could be good. One would think that Cassaleggio could see through chemtrails. The movement needs to see that cranks diminish the credibility of the movement, and formulate a plan to deal with them while preventing them from starting a backlash when they find themselves rejected.
 

Marco

New Member
"Vaffanculo" is similar to "fuck you". As the first video shows, Grillo probably doesn't believe in CT. But remember he is a showman and his work is to attract people for the party, so if polls show he will attract them by saying bullshit he probably will.In the last video he only gives a hint that there are connections between banks&military,CTs are out of context from what i understand. I'm looking and writing from phone, later at home I'll give a better look
 

Marco

New Member
First part of last video. Grillo speaks of monetary sovereignty. He says if you go inside this things, you don't come out of this (probably stating it is impossible knowing the thruth, I suppose he means international bank connections). After that he says same about CT, if you try to investigate, you come out with nothing. After that he tells about the water-motor he proposed to FIAT and said even worker union laughed at him. After that --> propaganda video about CTs with no connection to what he said.
My opinion is this video is trying to give support to CTs showing Grillo in the first part of the video, but he doesnt't even state they exist. In the first video of the thread he even mocks them, saying we live in a time of exaggerated enviromentalism. I confirm my hypothesys: he doesn't believe CTs exist, but he doesn't say it openly because he doesn't want to loose votes of fools.
I hope translation after my unofficial "skeptics in the pub on monday" is at least understandable.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
First part of last video. Grillo speaks of monetary sovereignty. He says if you go inside this things, you don't come out of this (probably stating it is impossible knowing the thruth, I suppose he means international bank connections). After that he says same about CT, if you try to investigate, you come out with nothing. After that he tells about the water-motor he proposed to FIAT and said even worker union laughed at him. After that --> propaganda video about CTs with no connection to what he said.
My opinion is this video is trying to give support to CTs showing Grillo in the first part of the video, but he doesnt't even state they exist. In the first video of the thread he even mocks them, saying we live in a time of exaggerated enviromentalism. I confirm my hypothesys: he doesn't believe CTs exist, but he doesn't say it openly because he doesn't want to loose votes of fools.
I hope translation after my unofficial "skeptics in the pub on monday" is at least understandable.
Cheers Marco, it wouldn't be the first time CT's have misleadingly connected a famous persons words with their propaganda.

Keep an eye on the thread, I'm sure there will be other questions.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
More on Cassaleggio, "The Mind":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/03/italy-five-star-movement-internet

A word you can translate: vaffanculo, common expression of the movement


"The Arrival of the Miracle of
Direct Democracy"
"Instead of the party, the Score"-



It seems there will be plenty of cranks inside the movement. If the leadership denounces cranks, it could be good. One would think that Cassaleggio could see through chemtrails. The movement needs to see that cranks diminish the credibility of the movement, and formulate a plan to deal with them while preventing them from starting a backlash when they find themselves rejected.
This kind of thing sounds familiar.
 
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