Immaculate Constellation - Alleged USAP focused on UAP identification and crash-retrieval

[jarlrmai]

The term ARV is a believer term "Alien Reproduction Vehicle" they couldn't bring themselves to quite say this calling them ARV/RV in the opening but then later just using ARV without ever specifying what the A means.

 

[JMartJr]

Full document attached, via:
https://mace.house.gov/sites/evo-su...media-document/Cannon 212_20241113_154539.pdf

Beyond the list of cases for which evidence is claimed but not presented, I was struck by the list of observed UFO shapes, followed by tables of "observables" for each (pages 6-9). Taken as a whole, they indicate that, according to the preparer of this document at least, UAP as the phenomenon under discussion are almost any shape, sizes ranging from tiny to gigantic, can make sounds or be silent, exhibit a wide range of "signatures," can move at pretty much any speed, can be light or dark or red or what sounds like iridescent, can have or lack lights, can have elaborate physical structures on the surface or be completely smooth, may or may not cause effects like anxiety in the witness or electromagnetic interference, etc.

This does not sound like data describing a unified new phenomenon -- it's all over the map, these things have pretty much whatever quality you can think of. (Wisely, they seem to have avoided occupant cases, as the diversity of creatures, especially before the Hill abduction case launched the "greys" meme, is just as bad.)

This list is not what one might expect if the collected cases are examples of real UAP/UFOs that represent a new unified phenomenon, such as alien spaceships.

It is exactly what might be expected if the cases are a collection of miscellaneous airborne clutter, LIZ detections, drones, meterological phenomena, mistakes in observation and/or memory etc., with perhaps the occasional tall tale thrown in -- with no relationship between them at all other than they were observed but not identified.

 

[Jack Mallory]

Still working my way through the Immaculate Constellation document from upthread but there are some very interesting insinuations (that really do demand some level of verification). The report puts forth the notion that part of what U.S. agencies are tracking is that of foreign development of ARVs. According to this report, the U.S. possesses enough insight into the matter to be able to predict when and where such ARVs might appear, and are then able to captures images of them accordingly.

The author of this report (whoever it may be) is either writing pure science fiction or is making huge leaps of faith based on limited information. If our terrestrial adversaries have somehow managed to actually reverse-engineer an alien craft, then all the observation in the world is hardly going to do much to prevent the U.S. from being completely overwhelmed by such technology. Unless the premises is that both the U.S. and our adversaries have harnessed such technology, yet both sides (at least two) have managed to keep such incredible advancements under wraps. This is so preposterous on so many levels that it's hard to know where to even begin.

On the very surface of it: Are we to believe that at least two national entities have cracked such technological secrets, yet Elon Musk and SpaceX, with seeming unlimited funds at their disposal, along with the most cutting-edge technology and some of the most enviable combined brain-power on the planet haven't a clue about such things? Or they do have a clue about such things but are willingly or unwillingly foregoing the application of such advanced knowledge because...???

Just to reiterate, we're talking about these guys here. They're in the dark about such things? Seriously? This isn't Bill Gates and some of his nerd friends sitting around working on DOS, this company is actually making things and making things happen (and this video is already 11 years old). But these guys are totally in the dark about all this supposed ARV technology?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujX6CuRELFE

 

[Jack Mallory]

In the above post, I'm specially referring to this section of the report (it's annoying that the pages themselves aren't actually numbered).

From page 3:

INDOPACOM Intelligence Vessels Positioned to Collect onReproduction Vehicle: OnUSG . networks, there exists Infrared footage of and imagery of a grouping of vessels engaged in

SIGINT and MASINT coUection at night in a specific area of the Pacific Ocean. In this footage, which was in close-proximity to the vessels, a large_equilateral-triangle UAP_suddenly appears directly over the ships. Three bright points are seen at each bottom corner of the UAP, which is observed to slowly rotate on its·horizontal access. This rotation partially reveals a horizqntal bar of sweeping lights. Intelligence analysis associated with this event specifies that the equilateral- triangle is a Reproduction Vehicle (RV) and concludes that the vessels must have been aware of the RV' s frequent use of those coordinates, due to foreign pre-positioning of advanced collection

assets at the exact time and place. After a brief period of hovering and slowly rotating approximately 500-1000 meters above the ocean, the RV suddenly disappears,_and the footage ends.

Now that's bizarre. The above was a copy/paste straight from the pdf. Don't know why formatting and spelling seems to have changed. Here's a screenshot as well:

 

[Mick West]

The term ARV is a believer term "Alien Reproduction Vehicle" they couldn't bring themselves to quite say this calling them ARV/RV in the opening but then later just using ARV without ever specifying what the A means.

"Reproduction Vehicle" seems to mean a human-built craft reproducing alien technology. It's not terminology I've heard the usual suspects use, that I can recall.

But what's and ARV/RV? That seems redundant.

 

[Mick West]

Now that's bizarre. The above was a copy/paste straight from the pdf. Don't know why formatting and spelling seems to have changed. Here's a screenshot as well:

The copy/past used OCR - i.e. the image scanned to text, and might have mistakes.

 

[Jack Mallory]

But what's and ARV/RV? That seems redundant.

Maybe it's meant to imply a vehicle that was produced by us (or our terrestrial adversaries) by reverse-engineering the work of the other side's actual ARV? (I'm only half-joking).

So, if China acquired an "authentic" craft from one of our celestial neighbors and somehow managed to produce their version of it, and then the U.S. managed to acquire this craft from China and proceeded to manufacturing their own version of that ARV, then might that be considered an ARV/RV?

Otherwise, it's seems like a wholly useless labeling of whatever it is they're actually referring to.

 

[Candycane7]

Am I the only one thinking that this whole report reads like something Lue would have written himself?

Especially that part:

 

[Mendel]

Am I the only one thinking that this whole report reads like something Lue would have written himself?

Especially that part:
View attachment 73056

honestly, from the introduction, my first thought was, "aha, someone found Elizondo's old computer at the department"

 

[jarlrmai]

It's classic weaseling/dogwhisiting, you can't say alien but you have to define your initialisms in an official looking document, "everyone" knows the A is alien.

So you do this:

What's also interesting is the "old" definition of UAP, another bait and switch initialism, initially UAP was "aerial" then you get some official documents form the government people saying UAP this and that, now its been changed somewhere along the line to "Anomalous," then you act like that was what all those older documents were referring to.

A few months ago there was a bit of a "ARV" swarm on UFO Reddit around when Immaculate Constellation was getting an airing, someone knew these terms were going to come to light, in this document.

 

[Mick West]

ARVs are described by Mark McCandlish, relaying what Brad Sorenson told him, and repeated in this video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUFYnVXbLoY


Mark McCandlish was a fantasist who we know from 10 years ago promoting chemtrails. He worked as and artist in the aerospace industry. Sorenson appears to have been a colleague and also an artist.

That info seems to mostly come from this 2015 video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afLsRsd5roY

 

[NorCal Dave]

Am I the only one thinking that this whole report reads like something Lue would have written himself?

Especially that part:
View attachment 73056

That is weird. If not Lue himself, certainly a cheerleader.

So, this is supposedly a report by someone that spend a few years investigating UAP, TUO and NHI:

This document is the result of a multi-year, internal investigation into the subjects of Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP), Technologies of Unknown Origin (TUO), and NonHuman Inteiligence (NHI).

And it was provided to congress via the UAP Whistleblower allowances for the safety of the country:

This investigation was undertaken in response to urgent and credible threats to the public good and safety of the United States of America - and provided to Congress through the UAP whistleblower mechanisms established by the FY23 National Defense Authorization Act, and the FY23 National Intelligence Authorization Act.

I'm reading this as the report was conducted by a freelancer. Someone took it upon themselves to look into these matters for the public good and upon learning things, went straight to congress, bypassing ARRO.

Is it me, or does this sound a bit like AATIP:

The author obtained access to this information while pursuing their lawful duties as an employee of the Department of Defense.

Whoever this person is, they were going about their "lawful duties" at the DoD and happened to find this information for their own report. Nothing indicates the author was in any way assigned to, or part of a UAP investigation program. It's a result of a side-gig. For the public good and safety of course.

Then there's this strange part:

This public version of the author's report was reviewed and approved for public release by the Department of State, Bureau of Global Public Affairs.

Does the Department of State usually clear stuff like this? It seems all the other possible classified statements and reports we've delt with go through DOPSR, the Department of Defense of Prepublication and Security Review. Even if the Department of State is the clearing agency, IF any of these claims are true, this guy is giving up highly classified information. Why would the State Department give the OK?

I could see the guy putting this report out and then claiming immunity or something due to his whistleblower status, but this makes it sound like he gave his report about all kinds of classified equipment, crafts and encounters to the State Department and they said: "Yeah, looks good!" This makes no sense.

Note too, he doesn't really have a smoking gun, just a strong suggesting:

The information provided by the author strongly suggests that the U.S. Executive Branch has been managing UAP/NHI issues without Congressional knowledge, oversight, or authorization for some time, quite possibly decades.

How would he know this:

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION is an Unacknowledged Special Access Program (USAP) established following the public disclosure of the AATIP/AAWSAP programs by Luis Elizondo in 2017.

IF he discovered this during his "lawful duties" he must have been very highly placed with clearance and access to a lot of stuff. And again, note that it was Elizondo that forced the creation of IMM CON (I'm not going to keep typing it out).

Again, this guy must be very in the know. IMM CON isn't just something he's heard whispered about, rather he has a detailed description of its operation and structure:

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION's primary mission is collecting imagery intelligence on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) and ARV/RV (Reproduction Vehicles) utilizing tasked and untasked U.S. military-intelligence resources.

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION acts as a nexus for collecting, analyzing, and disseminating intelligence on the activities, capabilities, and locations of anomalous aerospace threats that originate from foreign or unidentified sources.

The intelligence within the IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION program primarily consists of high-quality Imagery Intelligence (!MINT) and collateral Measurement and Signatures Intelligence (MASINT) ofUAPs and ARV/RVs within Earth's atmosphere.

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION pays particular attention to anomalous aerospace platforms that have be~n developed through the study or acquisition of technologies of unknown origin, by foreign nations or unknown entities.

The categorization of IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION as a _'parent' USAP, with various 'chil4' SAPs under its umbrella, indicates a high level of compartmentalization and secrecy.

Note that the "high levels of compartmentalization and secrecy" didn't deter the author of the report.

Later in the report is a list of UAP shapes culled, supposedly, from military data bases of sightings. As noted by @JMartJr upthread, UAP can be all kinds of things:

From 1991 to 2022, the most common UAP shapes reported in this USG dataset were spheres/orbs, discs/saucers ovals/tic-tacs, triangles, boomerang/arrowhead, and irregular/organic. The Triangles/Boomerangs/ A.trow head shapes were by far the rarest and spheres the most common. Variations of morphology within these categories are present i.e. smooth spheres and spheres with protuberances; saucers without domes and saucers with domes; smooth ovals and ovals with surface structures; jellyfish or floating "brains" with appendages; and elongated triangles as well as equiiateral triangles.

Then there is the standard "The Soviets were doing it" trope. In this case the author mentions "Psy" research as well as UAP studies by the Soviets in the '70s. This is somewhat true, as the fear that the Soviets were researching Psy led to project Staregate. I thought we might get a mention of Hal Putoff here:

(G/00/162-78). This serial number corresponds to an official NSA report published in 1978. The existence and content of this report was verified by accessing the appropriate intelligence archives. The substance of the report concerns scientific research in the Soviet Union on the topics of parapsychology, 'psi,' and biological effects of UAP on human beings. Additionally, the existence of this reporting stream demonstrates that U.S. intelligence was explicitly tasked to collect on foreign entities active in areas often relegated to the fringes of scientific research, including parapsychology and the biological effects of encounters with UAP.

Finaly we get this rather dramatic conclusion:

The official disclosure of the existence of Non-Human Intelligences (NHis) and their presence on Earth is a pivotal moment in human history. The nature of this information is of such incomparable relevance to the public good that it demands to be shared. Some may object and say that disclosure at this time poses too many risks. To them it must be said that we will never be able to predict how individuals, families, communities, and nations will react to revelations of such magnitude. Moving forward, we must guard against the lure of authoritarian solutions justified by expediency and appeals to national security. The Good inhumanity will always triumph through time, and it is in mon;ients of crisis that our capacities for achieving the extraordinary are discovered. Be not afraid.

With a Latin tag line to cap it off:

Scientia Igne Probata; Veritas Per Fidem

I got: Science Tested by Fire; Truth Through Faith. Science and faith don't really go together.

I could see this blowing up like the Majestic 12 documents from the '80s. The difference is there were actual documents to look at that proved a hoax, here is just set of claims by an anonymous somebody.

 

[Mendel]

Is it me, or does this sound a bit like AATIP:

Whoever this person is, they were going about their "lawful duties" at the DoD and happened to find this information for their own report. Nothing indicates the author was in any way assigned to, or part of a UAP investigation program. It's a result of a side-gig. For the public good and safety of course.

It would not surprise me in the least if the author is Jay Stratton, and Immaculate Con is his own secret program to continue AATIP. AATIP was secret in exactly the same fashion that Immaculate Con is claimed to be, with zero oversight, congressional or otherwise.

 

[ced0412]

ARVs are described by Mark McCandlish, relaying what Brad Sorenson told him, and repeated in this video:

Here's Mark speaking at a 2001 Disclosure Project conference, at about 1:13:00

 

[Jack Mallory]

This leapt out at me right away:

This investigation was undertaken in response to urgent and credible threats to the public good and safety of the United States of America

What threats might those be, exactly? The entire "urgent and credible" schtick has taken on a life of its own since Grusch's testimony last year, and it was initially only meant to refer to Grusch's complaints of retaliation against him by some unknown government insiders. It's already been blown way out of proportion and used wildly out of context. But since when were there such threats against the safety of the entire U.S.A.?

 

[MonkeeSage]

It would not surprise me in the least if the author is Jay Stratton, and Immaculate Con is his own secret program to continue AATIP. AATIP was secret in exactly the same fashion that Immaculate Con is claimed to be, with zero oversight, congressional or otherwise.

I was thinking the same thing based on the 2017 timing and Stratton coming up with "Interloper" previously, which also has a fancy codename. From Imminent, p. 165.

Jay spent weeks creating an operation plan (OPLAN), code-named "Interloper." It was a classic "honey pot." We would orchestrate a situation that was so irresistible and almost impossible for the enemy to ignore. With each new iteration of the OPLAN, Jay inserted more data in the proposal to bolster our argument. Dates, times, locations, call signs, and the ship names of all vessels that had UAP encounters. Jay also included radar data that substantiated the eyewitness testimonies of flustered pilots and aircrew. The Interloper document painted a very persuasive picture to whoever read it.

 

[Ann K]

The term ARV is a believer term "Alien Reproduction Vehicle" they couldn't bring themselves to quite say this calling them ARV/RV in the opening but then later just using ARV without ever specifying what the A means.

Damn old memories. I'd have room for serious stuff if I could empty out the brain now and then, but that name forcibly reminds me of the Woody Allen movie "Sleeper", and the Orgasmatron...

 

[Harabeck]

From the last page just before the conclusion:

Section 7: Sensitive Sources

From mouth to ear.

What the hell? Why include this at all? Is this a normal thing to say in official reports? Am I ignorant, or does this read like someone trying to sound super cool and dramatic?

 

[triplekahuna]

What is the Pentagon's alleged 'Immaculate Constellation' program?
Shellenberger told NewsNation's Ross Coulthart he has been in touch with the whistleblower, whose exact role and other identifying details, including gender, he has withheld because they fear what could happen if they were publicly known.

"I don't think that they're faking it or that they're lying about their fear," he said. "This person discovered this material accidentally. This was not something they had expected to encounter."

That fear is why Shellenberger said the whistleblower did not share intelligence imagery showing UAPs.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/report-immaculate-constellation-uap-journalist/

It's interesting what's left unsaid here. The superficial facts don't add up.

1. Unencrypted IMMACULATE CON data is able to be discovered "accidentally" by employees/contractors not cleared for access
2. The data can be exfiltrated out of whatever presumably top secret "database" it was stored within without leaving a trace as to who did it (which is presumably why the "whistleblower" felt no "fear" leaking it to the entire planet today)
3. The "government" seemingly exercised less data security over this than Elizondo's email.

I remember staring blankly into the swirls of my coffee, waiting for one of my classified computer systems to fire up, wishing I didn't have unexpected visitors. The encryption that covered some of the technology I used was ridiculously secure, and it often took me ten minutes to pull up a single email.
(Imminent, Chapter 1, emphasis mine)

 

[NorCal Dave]

It would not surprise me in the least if the author is Jay Stratton, and Immaculate Con is his own secret program to continue AATIP. AATIP was secret in exactly the same fashion that Immaculate Con is claimed to be, with zero oversight, congressional or otherwise.

I was thinking the same thing based on the 2017 timing and Stratton coming up with "Interloper" previously, which also has a fancy codename. From Imminent, p. 165.

I like it! Wouldn't even have to be Stratton, just someone reporting on his side gig.

 

[john.phil]

At the end of the document in post #79, and now available from the official link, there is a Latin motto that summarises it:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO12/20241113/117721/HHRG-118-GO12-20241113-SD003.pdf

"Scientia Igne Probata; Veritas Per Fidem"

Which translates to "Knowledge tested by fire; Truth, through faith".

It would have been a more natural construction if it was just -> "Scientia Igne Probata; Veritas Fide".

But if their motto was "Scientia Igne Probata; Veritas Ex Probatione", there would have been no bunk -> "Knowledge through rigorous testing; Truth, from proof", or more simply "Knowledge by fire; Truth, from proof".

 

[MapperGuy]

I think that whoever wrote the sentences below did not clearly see what they are implying:

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION's primary mission is collecting imagery intelligence on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) and ARV/RV (Reproduction Vehicles) utilizing tasked and untasked U.S. military-intelligence resources.

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION acts as a nexus for collecting, analyzing, and disseminating intelligence on the activities, capabilities, and locations of anomalous aerospace threats that originate from foreign or unidentified sources.

The intelligence within the IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION program primarily consists of high-quality Imagery Intelligence (!MINT) and collateral Measurement and Signatures Intelligence (MASINT) ofUAPs and ARV/RVs within Earth's atmosphere.

What they are describing is a filtering operation, that collects and reviews information from many sources and identifies "alien stuff". The problem is that the information being reviewed was in most cases collected for some other original purpose. After being collected it would have been quickly given to the original requestor. So most of this "proof" of aliens has also been passed to those analysts from the many different commands, services and agencies that originally requested it and wrote their own reports based on it. Thus, most everyone who ever held a TS/SCI clearance must already have seen and analyzed this proof of aliens at some time or another.

Suddenly the cadre of people "in the know" becomes not just a tiny handful of people but rather most of the people who have ever worked in the Intel Community (civilian and military). Right?

 

[Mendel]

Suddenly the cadre of people "in the know" becomes not just a tiny handful of people but rather most of the people who have ever worked in the Intel Community (civilian and military). Right?

Well, that's the point. The idea is that the government has all of these UFO reports in some database that it isn't disclosing, and people don't dare to speak up for fear of retribution (which has replaced the fear of stigma in the narrative)—the usual conspiracy theory cloak&dagger stuff to make the material exciting and to paper over the lack of significant evidence. (And they can't talk to AARO with its whistleblower protections because AARO can't be trusted, obviously, don't ask why.)

Meanwhile, some guy at Edwards got to show his stuff to Matt Gaetz, but nothing ever came of it.

 

[jackfrostvc]

IMO This above from the 11 page report has to be the USS Ronald Reagan case Dave Beaty reported on and did multiple videos on like the one below. He even spoke to Elizondo about it.
This to me sounded like a flare, possibly a parachute flare and I commented as such at the time. And if I remember right, at least one of the witnesses said other crew just carried on and ignored this thing. Like it was a normal thing. Which made no sense unless it was a prosaic thing they expected


Here's one of the videos Dave Beaty did on the case: www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-TLikOpGqU

 

[FatPhil]

At the end of the document in post #79, and now available from the official link, there is a Latin motto that summarises it:

"Scientia Igne Probata; Veritas Per Fidem"

Which translates to "Knowledge tested by fire; Truth, through faith".

Well spotted. That's extremely telling. Or even damning. Why would they add that? They must be Catholics, as that looks like a confession to me.
Given the no-better-than-"trust me bro" nature of the second part, I wonder if the fire that their knowledge is tested by in the first half is a burning bush?

 

[FatPhil]

From the last page just before the conclusion:

Section 7: Sensitive Sources
From mouth to ear.

What the hell? Why include this at all? Is this a normal thing to say in official reports? Am I ignorant, or does this read like someone trying to sound super cool and dramatic?

They used that wording because they didn't want to use the word "hearsay", due to the connotations that has, despite it having the same meaning. And therefore the same connotations. It looks like another confession, this time that their testimonies might be inadmissible.

 

[DavidB66]

With a Latin tag line to cap it off:

If we're getting into Latin tags, I prefer:

Nullius in verba

 

[Mendel]

"Scientia Igne Probata; Veritas Per Fidem"

Which translates to "Knowledge tested by fire; Truth, through faith".

Is this Latin for "Don't trust the government; believe in your own truth!"?

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

This public version of the author's report was reviewed and approved for public release by the Department of State, Bureau of Global Public Affairs.

Does the Department of State usually clear stuff like this? It seems all the other possible classified statements and reports we've delt with go through DOPSR, the Department of Defense of Prepublication and Security Review. Even if the Department of State is the clearing agency, IF any of these claims are true, this guy is giving up highly classified information. Why would the State Department give the OK?

I could see the guy putting this report out and then claiming immunity or something due to his whistleblower status, but this makes it sound like he gave his report about all kinds of classified equipment, crafts and encounters to the State Department and they said: "Yeah, looks good!" This makes no sense.

Note too, he doesn't really have a smoking gun, just a strong suggesting:

From 1991 to 2022, the most common UAP shapes reported in this USG dataset were spheres/orbs, discs/saucers ovals/tic-tacs, triangles, boomerang/arrowhead, and irregular/organic. The Triangles/Boomerangs/ A.trow head shapes were by far the rarest and spheres the most common. Variations of morphology within these categories are present i.e. smooth spheres and spheres with protuberances; saucers without domes and saucers with domes; smooth ovals and ovals with surface structures; jellyfish or floating "brains" with appendages; and elongated triangles as well as equiiateral triangles.

Then there is the standard "The Soviets were doing it" trope. In this case the author mentions "Psy" research as well as UAP studies by the Soviets in the '70s. This is somewhat true, as the fear that the Soviets were researching Psy led to project Staregate. I thought we might get a mention of Hal Putoff here:

(G/00/162-78). This serial number corresponds to an official NSA report published in 1978. The existence and content of this report was verified by accessing the appropriate intelligence archives. The substance of the report concerns scientific research in the Soviet Union on the topics of parapsychology, 'psi,' and biological effects of UAP on human beings. Additionally, the existence of this reporting stream demonstrates that U.S. intelligence was explicitly tasked to collect on foreign entities active in areas often relegated to the fringes of scientific research, including parapsychology and the biological effects of encounters with UAP.

As for the DOS part, the only reason I can think of this happening is the writer being an attachee at a DOS function that'd instead go through their release clearance processes over DODs. This would work even heavier against their claim though as it would mean even non-DOD functionaries had open access to all this in depth, detailed information.


Love the side reference they made to the historical parapsychology programs. The best part is at a strategic decision making level, the Soviets used those as disinformation and deception. Largely their national leadership did not really care for the topic outside that, nor did most employees. Unlike here in the US, "believers" did not take part in the higher decision making like that (eg no one on the Politburo was bankrolling your hunt for aliens), so even then were pretty isolated outside doing their explicit jobs. We most literally have more cases of disinformation on the topic from the Soviet government than we do materials on even later-confirmed-bunk cases. Not a strong torch to hold up.

 

[Ann K]

Well spotted. That's extremely telling. Or even damning. Why would they add that? They must be Catholics, as that looks like a confession to me.
Given the no-better-than-"trust me bro" nature of the second part, I wonder if the fire that their knowledge is tested by in the first half is a burning bush?

1 Peter 1:7. And I think we've surmised that a single person wrote the thing, so not "they". If that person was Elizondo, he is a Catholic but well-versed in Judaism. In "Imminent" he wrote, speculating on the parallels between aliens and angels:

Enoch's journey is filled with heavenly accounts, including descriptions of angelic and demonic hierarchy, God's throne, God's inner circle of guards, and even the language of the supernatural. On paper, Enoch's travels don't sound that dissimilar to reported nonhuman encounters.
.........

If Genesis 6 were a movie, the Book of Enoch would be its prequel. (Enoch is said to be Noah's grandfather.) In the book, the Nephilim discuss their plan to take earthly women as their wives. The Book of Enoch also refers to these heavenly beings as Watchers. Two hundred Watchers travel to earth to enact this plan.

Nephilim…Watchers…angels…aliens.

To be clear, I'm not advocating the ancient astronaut hypothesis that many today believe. I'm simply drawing some interesting parallels. The Bible as commonly read today offers us details of Ezekiel's Wheel and Jacob's Ladder. Are these stories merely instructive, or are they feeble attempts by humans to reconcile their bewilderment over seeing otherworldly technology?
........
One day I arrived at our group office to find Jim and a couple of the others kicking around ideas for a chart Jim had conceived. At the top he'd typed the word God. At the bottom was Humans. In the middle was Angels.

That's where the conversation became mired. If we went down this avenue as a possibility, one had to ask certain hypothetical questions. Did angels belong halfway between humans and God? In the Bible you have humans seeing, speaking with, and hearing the words of angels. An angel visits Mary to tell her that she will give birth to the infant Jesus. In the famous story of Abraham and Isaac, the angel verbally halts the elder from sacrificing his son.

Jim theorized that if the distance between humans and angels is large, was it not probable that other beings existed between the purely spiritual angels and the flesh-and-soul creatures known as humans? Was it possible an entire ecosystem of divine and semidivine life forms existed in an invisible ecosystem?

Our job was challenging enough without having to grapple with theological questions. Jay clearly felt the same. We had a hard enough time talking to officials about UAP; how could we possibly speak about this other element without provoking powers that be to shut us down?

https://lithub.com/aliens-or-angels-on-the-similarities-between-ufo-encounters-and-religious-experiences/#:~:text=By attending both a Jewish temple and school,both Hanukkah and Christmas, until I grew older.

 

[FatPhil]

1 Peter 1:7. And I think we've surmised that a single person wrote the thing, so not "they". If that person was Elizondo, he is a Catholic but well-versed in Judaism. In "Imminent" he wrote, speculating on the parallels between aliens and angels:

If Genesis 6 were a movie, the Book of Enoch would be its prequel. (Enoch is said to be Noah's grandfather.)

Great...

I'll put the TL;DR first: "Enoch > Methuselah > Lamech > Noah", he's dropped a generation.

18​ When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 19​ After he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20​ Altogether, Jared lived a total of 962 years, and then he died.

21​ When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22​ After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23​ Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 24​ Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

25​ When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26​ After he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27​ Altogether, Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died.

28​ When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29​ He named him Noah[c] and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the Lord has cursed." 30​ After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters. 31​ Altogether, Lamech lived a total of 777 years, and then he died.

32​ After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.

-- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 5&version=NIV

It seems weird me of all people running off to the bible as a primary resource, having shaken its sand off my sandels decades ago, but sometimes you've got to get dirty to wrestle a boar (or did I mean bore, or even boor?). The take-away is that It appears there's no field in which Lue is capable of presenting a valid argument.

 

[Ann K]

It seems weird me of all people running off to the bible as a primary resource, having shaken its sand off my sandels decades ago, but sometimes you've got to get dirty to wrestle a boar (or did I mean bore, or even boor?). The take-away is that It appears there's no field in which Lue is capable of presenting a valid argument.

Methuselah lived 900 years,
Methuselah lived 900 years.
But who calls that livin'
When no gal will give in
To no man who's 900 years.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm14ZLGvSWQ

 

[Calter]

This document is the result of a multi-year, internal investigation into the subjects of Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP)

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION's primary mission is collecting imagery intelligence on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP)

I feel the document is short enough that they could have at least one definition of UAP or at least clarify at the beginning by saying "Unidentified Anomalous/Aerial Phenomena (UAP)".

The information provided by the author strongly suggests that the U.S. Executive Branch has been managing UAP/NHI issues without Congressional knowledge, oversight, or authorization for some time, quite possibly decades.

IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION is an Unacknowledged Special Access Program (USAP) established following the public disclosure of the AATIP/AAWSAP programs by Luis Elizondo in 2017.

Maybe it's just me, but I always find it difficult to know the timeframe of what is being revealed in these hearings. As in, has the government been hiding these things since the 40s with whatever they took from the Vatican? Do they have reverse-engineered tech? Do they know what they are but can't do anything about it? Do they not even know what they are?

Why would they, after 2017, establish a Special Access Program that collects information if they have access to actual craft and have known about their existence for decades? You would think that if they have been studying these things in secret for decades then they would have set up that kind of system decades ago.

It's interesting how "Irregular/organic" act like a wildcard. Have you seen something that is small/medium/big that is smooth/rugged, is silent/noisy, has an aimless/controlled/erratic movement, has a constant/changing shape? Well, you might have seen an alien.

One day I arrived at our group office to find Jim and a couple of the others kicking around ideas for a chart Jim had conceived. At the top he'd typed the word God. At the bottom was Humans. In the middle was Angels.

This is a bit off topic, but that's an hilarious situation to think of (at least as a non-american, maybe it's a bit more annoying if your taxes are going to their paychecks)

 

[Mendel]

Why would they, after 2017, establish a Special Access Program that collects information if they have access to actual craft and have known about their existence for decades? You would think that if they have been studying these things in secret for decades then they would have set up that kind of system decades ago.

Immaculate Con is doing what AATIP was doing up until 2017. But because Elizondo left the government to reveal AATIP, and Stratton stayed behind, Stratton and whoever else was managing the project would've needed a new code name, since the project was entirely unofficial and had to be kept secret from their enemies at the department.

 

[jdog]

From the last page just before the conclusion:

Section 7: Sensitive Sources

From mouth to ear.

What the hell? Why include this at all? Is this a normal thing to say in official reports? Am I ignorant, or does this read like someone trying to sound super cool and dramatic?

My hypothesis is that this document is the result of sanitizing a source document by having ChatGPT or some similar LLM rewrite it. That would give you awkward phrases like this, the repeated passive claim "On USG networks there exists...", the oddly phrased Latin.

Why would someone have an LLM rewrite their work? So someone else can't run a comparison between this writing and other public documents to try to determine the author. Which could be to protect a whistleblower -- or keep someone from confirming that the source was an, ahem, eminent author.

As soon as a version of this PDF became available on r/ufos people were trying to plug it into ChatGPT to get a summary or some sort of an analysis. (And failing because they didn't understand that a scanned document is an image and not a text document until it's been OCRed. Which makes sense to provide because, without some care in generating them, PDFs can carry forward some identifying metadata.)

 

[JMartJr]

If we're getting into Latin tags, I prefer:

May I suggest "Ostende testimonium tuum, aut desine loqui"

Very roughly, "Put up or shut up."

 

[Ann K]

@Calter

Table 6: Irregular/Organic

Observable	Details
Size	Highly variable, from small, compact forms to larger, more sprawling structures.
Speed	Movements range from slow drifting to rapid acceleration, often unpredictable.
Signatures	Some reports include unusual sounds or the absence of expected aerodynamic noise; electromagnetic effects are common.
Colors	Often described with bioluminescent qualities or shifting colors, particularly for "floating-brain" or jellyfish types.
Surface Details	Descriptions vary widely, from smooth, fluid-like surfaces to complex, articulated structures.

Observable	Details
Behaviors	Demonstrates a wide range of behaviors, from controlled maneuvering to erratic patterns of movement. Shape-shifting abilities have been reported.
Biological Effects	Observations include physical sensations of warmth or cold, unexplained smells (e.g., ozone), and psychological distress.
Unique Emissions	The floating-brain/jellyfish UAPs occasionally exhibit 'patterned' luminescence or fluctuating lights/colors (typically only visible in the higher-end of the electromagnetic spectrum).
Atmospheric Phenomena	Sudden temperature drops, and the appearance of clouds have been reported.

I'm not sure why they didn't just use the words "highly variable" for every single item, but that just emphasizes the point that UAP are not "a thing". Surely the first thing to be established in any study is "Is there actually something to be studied?". In the case of UAPs, which remain elusively evidence-free, the thing worthy of study would appear to be firmly in the field of human perception and psychology, not physics or metallurgy or cosmology or national defense.

 

[John J.]

May I suggest "Ostende testimonium tuum, aut desine loqui"

"Nil evidentia provisum, defo bovine excreta"

It's possible my Latin is imperfect.

 

[FatPhil]

My hypothesis is that this document is the result of sanitizing a source document by having ChatGPT or some similar LLM rewrite it. That would give you awkward phrases like this, the repeated passive claim "On USG networks there exists...", the oddly phrased Latin.

"Tortured phrases". If it's output of an LLM, perhaps these techniques might be detect it:

Tortured Phrases Detector
️ Check potentially problematic papers ...

-- https://dbrech.irit.fr/pls/apex/f?p=9999:24

Based on:

Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science. Evidence of critical issues affecting established journals
Guillaume Cabanac, Cyril Labbé, Alexander Magazinov

Probabilistic text generators have been used to produce fake scientific papers for more than a decade. Such nonsensical papers are easily detected by both human and machine. Now more complex AI-powered generation techniques produce texts indistinguishable from that of humans and the generation of scientific texts from a few keywords has been documented. Our study introduces the concept of tortured phrases: unexpected weird phrases in lieu of established ones, such as 'counterfeit consciousness' instead of 'artificial intelligence.' We combed the literature for tortured phrases and study one reputable journal where these concentrated en masse. Hypothesising the use of advanced language models we ran a detector on the abstracts of recent articles of this journal and on several control sets. The pairwise comparisons reveal a concentration of abstracts flagged as 'synthetic' in the journal. We also highlight irregularities in its operation, such as abrupt changes in editorial timelines. We substantiate our call for investigation by analysing several individual dubious articles, stressing questionable features: tortured writing style, citation of non-existent literature, and unacknowledged image reuse. Surprisingly, some websites offer to rewrite texts for free, generating gobbledegook full of tortured phrases. We believe some authors used rewritten texts to pad their manuscripts. We wish to raise the awareness on publications containing such questionable AI-generated or rewritten texts that passed (poor) peer review. Deception with synthetic texts threatens the integrity of the scientific literature.

-- https://arxiv.org/abs/2107.06751

 

[FatPhil]

"Nil evidentia provisum, defo bovine excreta"

It's possible my Latin is imperfect.

With such statements, it's imperative to be precise.