How many Conspirators would be required to carry out 9/11 via controlled demolition?

BombDr

Senior Member.
I'm not sure if this has been done, but I'd like to hear some opinions on how many personnel would be required to carry out 9/11.

I have often heard things about Air Defences being stood down (someone needed to give that order) and that certain people in the media - even foreign media, had foreknowlege, how many people would be rewuired to allow them on to the planes, if the plane in Shanksville was shot down, apart from the pilot, how many people from the plane engineers, armourers, air traffic controllers and radar operators would be required to make that happen, and cover it up?

How many demolition crews would be required?

How many people would be needed to cover/hide/destroy evidence?

How many traders would be required for all the mysterious put options?

How many people in the White House, Pentagon and the WTC are required to be in on it?

How many assassins would be needed to kill all the inconvenient witnesses like Barry Jenning and Danny Jowenko?

How many people are required in the FAA, CIA, FBI, NORAD, NIST, NYPD, FDNY?

I am not interested in how they all kept it a secret, or how they would have done it as those discussions rarely move beyond entrenched positions, I simply would like a head-count.
 

hiper

Active Member
Surprisingly little people would be needed I think. And by that I mean people who were aware of what the grand painting was.

A few crews to rig the 3 buildings. And a few operatives who during the "war games" would fly 2 military planes by remote into the twin towers.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
One alchemist to concoct a batch of dragon's fire fulminate.

One wizard consultant to help maximize symbolic representations.

Three Ninjas to plant the fulminates.

Several owls to act as lookouts.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I still want to know where such crews could have come from. Which company were they hired from?
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
One alchemist to concoct a batch of dragon's fire fulminate.

One wizard consultant to help maximize symbolic representations.

Three Ninjas to plant the fulminates.

Several owls to act as lookouts.

Owls. Very untrustworthy animals. I never trust any animal that can spin its head 360 degrees.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I still want to know where such crews could have come from. Which company were they hired from?

I am a believer in the good in people although I admit people will do anything more money. However 9/11 really does take a stretch of the imagination.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Did you ever see the bad 'pyramid movie', where the only folks that know were the mummy is are then sealed in the tomb? That is the only way that anyone could have kept anyone from telling or leaving a suicide note. First you have to convince folks to set explosives in an occupied building. It would have taken a crew of all sociopaths.

Let's see, recruit some 'dependable sociopaths'. Get them all trained in building implosion. Find an expert in implosion to decide where the charges are set. Smuggle crew into building to set charges and to cut the columns. Do the later without anyone noticing and then repair the damage. Figure out a way to make the whole crew 'disappear'. Armor the charges so fires do not set them. Get Q to invent a way to detonate them and a way to muffle the explosions. Pay off the experts that are examining the debris (make sure none of them knew anyone that was killed or injured on 9/11). 'Disappear' those experts.

Or one could look at what really happened. A small group of fanatics flew planes into buildings.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Surprisingly little people would be needed I think. And by that I mean people who were aware of what the grand painting was.

A few crews to rig the 3 buildings. And a few operatives who during the "war games" would fly 2 military planes by remote into the twin towers.
How long would it take a "few operatives" to plant enough charges? Lets remember that both building combined for a total of 10,000,000 (that is just rentable space) square feet. The avg block in Manhattan is 250 ft by 600 ft for 150,000 sq ft. So the equivalent of 66 blocks of Manhattan that were covertly wired for demo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan#Geography
http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/wtc/about/facts.html
1 acre of rentable floor space per floor. SO that is 210 acres!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Surprisingly little people would be needed I think. And by that I mean people who were aware of what the grand painting was.

A few crews to rig the 3 buildings. And a few operatives who during the "war games" would fly 2 military planes by remote into the twin towers.

How many is a few?

And is that really it? The entire FBI was fooled? No FBI agents had to be in on it?

What about the passengers?
 

hiper

Active Member
How many is a few?

And is that really it? The entire FBI was fooled? No FBI agents had to be in on it?

What about the passengers?

50 people is what I call a few. The FBI was told there were some 'mistakes' during the 'war games'.
That's the perfect scape goat... if need be they can always claim something went wrong with the 'war games'.
100 000's were killed during the US invasion wars and you are asking 'what about the passengers'.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
50 people is what I call a few. The FBI was told there were some 'mistakes' during the 'war games'.
That's the perfect scape goat... if need be they can always claim something went wrong with the 'war games'.
100 000's were killed during the US invasion wars and you are asking 'what about the passengers'.

I don't mean "oh, the humanity", I mean how were they dealt with? Where did the passengers end up in your scenario?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Where did the military get the planes? Painted with the American and United logos? So now you expect us to believe that many folks in both of those airlines were also in on the deception?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
What nonsense on that site.


Hollow towers? REALLY? Fake smoke?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
A few years ago I was heavily involved in my pilot union as a vice-president. Part of my duties involved liaison with other pilot unions involved in the OneWorld alliance. One of those airlines is American Airlines.

If you wish to get into a violent argument, or possibly worse, suggest to those guys that the two AA aircraft involved in Sept 11 were military drones, and that none of their members were murdered.
 

hiper

Active Member
If you wish to get into a violent argument, or possibly worse, suggest to those guys that the two AA aircraft involved in Sept 11 were military drones, and that none of their members were murdered.

Maybe... doesn't change the fact a lot of people doubt the official explanation and with good reason.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Maybe... doesn't change the fact a lot of people doubt the official explanation and with good reason.
The reasons they doubt are not good.

They are, in no particular order:
Ignorance,
paranoia
distrust of Government
Racism (how could a bunch of "ragheads" pull this off?)
Profit motive

Take your pick.

I know guys who were personal friends of the murdered crews. Many now take firearms with them when they fly. As I said, the fastest way to a black eye is to suggest this was a conspiracy to them.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe... doesn't change the fact a lot of people doubt the official explanation and with good reason.

But "good reason" can't just be "the government is evil". If you want to suggest something has been done, then you really need a it more evidence than "It sounds like the type of thing they would do". Especially when there is contradictory evidence (like here, the number of people that would have to be involved).

Notice when you start to try to put together an alternate scenario, it very quickly becomes apparent that there are lots more holes in the alternative than in the official story.

Let's say you didn't know if the government was evil or not, then what is it that makes you suspect controlled demolition?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
There are folks that believe in Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster, that doesn't make them real.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Would not be that difficult to mess with.

So according to you the government disappeared the passengers, the civilian planes, and then flew military planes into the WTC. Why not just fly the original civilian planes full of passengers into the WTC and save themselves the added complexity and risk?

Or perhaps the passengers are willing participants and they're now living undercover with new faces like in the movie Face/Off. How much would that scenario increase the tally of conspirators?
 

hiper

Active Member
I have said it before... if they just imploded the twin towers with the planes obviously hitting them there would be less of a 9/11 truth movement I imagine.
It is WTC 7 that is 'a bridge to far' in terms of believability. Why do you think NIST spend 7 years on it.

You guys defending the official version don't seems to care much about the war games... it's all a coincidence to you guys.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Because those of you in the 'truther movement' have NOTHING that contradicts the 'official story' as y'all call it. Their story has FACTS and SCIENCE, y'all have 'opinions' and complex plots that no movie producer would accept, because they have holes in them that Picard could fly Starfleet through.

Y'all can't even come up with a reasonable explanation of HOW they could have been rigged, or WHERE the techs would have come from or how the explosives survived the heat or how they were set off.

Y'all ignore facts like the thousands of folks that worked in those buildings every day--really they were hollow? Or of thousands of witnesses that saw the planes hit them and the Pentagon. Thousands don't hear 'explosions' one does and y'all trot him out all the time.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
Owls. Very untrustworthy animals. I never trust any animal that can spin its head 360 degrees.
Those that can spin it 720 degrees are entirely trustworthy, I can assure you. Unless they're robots, of course. Unless they've had a talking to by Asimov. How to spoil a joke. (Slinks off).
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
Surprisingly little people would be needed I think. And by that I mean people who were aware of what the grand painting was.

A few crews to rig the 3 buildings. And a few operatives who during the "war games" would fly 2 military planes by remote into the twin towers.


http://www.basingstoke-canal.org.uk/bridges/brclay.htm

The above link is to a rather dull website about the Basingstoke canal. The reason I have linked it is because the two bridges in the link are both owned by the Army, and every Royal Engineer has many unhappy hours rigging those two bridges with inert explosive charges for demolition.

As you can see, they are both tiny compared to any on the WTC sites, simply on mass of steel alone. The rigging is not done covertly and nothing needs to be stripped off to get to the skin of the steel. On a good day with a Troop of Sappers (Approx 30) it would take between 4-6 hours to rig one of those bridges correctly.

Hiper, how many people do you see being in your crews?

Then, who is making their demolition charges? Who is transporting them? Who are lookouts? Who allows them access to the buildings?

If the planes are being flown by remote, who is flying them and from where? Bear in mind they would have to maintain a reliable signal over a few hudred miles, and be able to hit their targets exactly.

How many engineers required to modify these planes with a remote system not routinely available off the shelf? As you can see its not easy on this documentary: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-plane-crash and more on wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Boeing_727_crash_experiment

As all planes are registered, how do you get them off the register, and if the assumption is they came from Area 51 type locations, how many people would be required there?

Where do the actual planes go and how any people are required to manage their disapperance? If they land, who handles the passengers?

How many telecommunications people are required to fake the phone calls to family and 911 dispatchers?

Last time I counted there were 4 planes involved, but lets argue that the Pentagon one was a missile, where was the missile launched from and how many people do you need for a ground crew? Is it a standard solid fuel missile, and if so, who modified it for variable thrust? If it is a liquid air-breathing engined missile, who made it in what factory? Did they do any prototyping and testing or were they planning on 100% relaibility on its first shot?

How many people are then required to plant aircraft parts such as a nose wheel, engine turbines, seats, airframe skin with the AA logo on them and passengers bodies?

My head count is in serveral hundreds now, do you have a number in mind Hiper?
 

hiper

Active Member
You claim it would be impossible for 9/11 to be government instigated and you think you represent the majority view... your are wrong on both counts.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories

Zogby poll on 9/11 was conducted in May 2006

"Some people believe that the US government and its 9/11 Commission concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence that contradicts their official explanation of the September 11th attacks, saying there has been a cover-up. Others say that the 9/11 Commission was a bi-partisan group of honest and well-respected people and that there is no reason they would want to cover-up anything. Who are you more likely to agree with?"

nationalzogbypoll_small2.gif
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
I have said it before... if they just imploded the twin towers with the planes obviously hitting them there would be less of a 9/11 truth movement I imagine.
It is WTC 7 that is 'a bridge to far' in terms of believability. Why do you think NIST spend 7 years on it.

You guys defending the official version don't seems to care much about the war games... it's all a coincidence to you guys.

As someone who participates in Wargames, you are right, I don't care about the Wargames, they are an utter irrelivance.
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
You claim it would be impossible for 9/11 to be government instigated and you think you represent the majority view... your are wrong on both counts.


"Some people believe that the US government and its 9/11 Commission concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence that contradicts their official explanation of the September 11th attacks, saying there has been a cover-up. Others say that the 9/11 Commission was a bi-partisan group of honest and well-respected people and that there is no reason they would want to cover-up anything. Who are you more likely to agree with?"

Respectfully, this is off-topic. can we continue with the head count please?
 

Bruno D.

Senior Member.
You claim it would be impossible for 9/11 to be government instigated and you think you represent the majority view... your are wrong on both counts.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories

Zogby poll on 9/11 was conducted in May 2006

"Some people believe that the US government and its 9/11 Commission concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence that contradicts their official explanation of the September 11th attacks, saying there has been a cover-up. Others say that the 9/11 Commission was a bi-partisan group of honest and well-respected people and that there is no reason they would want to cover-up anything. Who are you more likely to agree with?"

nationalzogbypoll_small2.gif

So your idea is that if the majority believes something (that's not even the case here), it must be true? wow.

I think the best argument against the cover up is: if a hand full of people were not able to cover for the watergate, what makes you think that hundreds of people could cover up for 9/11 ?

Not a single soul tried to leak anything in 12 years? Not a single person from military, demolition crew, fake dead passenger, transportation, no one? from hundreds?

These must be a very reliable group there, very honorable and correct, who stick to the their word and ... oh wait, they are not nice people, they killed thousands!
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
You claim it would be impossible for 9/11 to be government instigated

Quite right, this is off topic. I have not seen anyone here claim it would be impossible for 9/11 to be government instigated. Only that it is highly unlikely. Probably due to the lack of evidence.

and you think you represent the majority view... your are wrong on both counts.

Ignoring for a moment all the usual biases with opinion polls...

polls.jpg




From the same Wiki page you linked to , Another Zogby poll suggested that only 4.8 percent of the respondents agreed that members of the U.S. government "actively planned or assisted some aspects of the attack."
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
Take a poll of how many people in the US believe in angels.

What weight would that add to a debate on the existance of angels?

Anymore people for the big secret conspiracy club that I must have missed?
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
And just to belabour the point:)... didn't most Chinese believe, as little as 400 years ago, in a geocentric universe with a flat square world at the centre?
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member

Most of the military exercises had nothing to do with New York. The NRO thing was a drill involving a simulated small plane and they are (I believe) near Dulles not the Pentagon. The NY drill was scheduled for Sep. 12. Emergency management agencies conduct drills, table-top exercises, command center exercises, etc. all the time. So what?
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
Take a poll of how many people in the US believe in angels.

What weight would that add to a debate on the existance of angels?

Anymore people for the big secret conspiracy club that I must have missed?


There are very few truthers here, telling us how it was done, and Id love an actual discussion on the percieved MO of such a complex operation.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
There are very few truthers here, telling us how it was done, and Id love an actual discussion on the percieved MO of such a complex operation.
Not many people are in an overview position. I certainly haven't been, although I have worked on secrets. Except for enquiries which are useful and essential to one's task, to ask about inessentials is "time-wasting", which is unprofessional activity.

I think it's an imponderable, except for those "in the know", (who might well not exist at all).

IED defusing the American Way:

[video=youtube_share;UizomOySzWA]http://youtu.be/UizomOySzWA[/video]

The British Way:

[video=youtube_share;hJZps0kaVJo]http://youtu.be/hJZps0kaVJo[/video]

You might argue off-topic, but they are both organizations concerned with bombs, and have some connection with the ideas here.
 

hiper

Active Member
There are very few truthers here, telling us how it was done, and Id love an actual discussion on the percieved MO of such a complex operation.

“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”
- Henry Kissinger

This is the guy that was the chairman of the short lived independent panel investigating the September 11 attacks..
You are defending a government that appoints a cover-up king to investigate 9/11.
 
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