Help debunk please!? [Contrail Grids, Weather Modification, Fuel Dumping]

cryptonight

New Member
Can you look at this image and say that is just normal contrails, just considering that seems awkward and ridiculous to me, a sort of giggle, is that wrong, really? I'm a bit older, maybe that's why, because I know 20, 30 years ago there was nothing remotely close to what appears in this satellite image.

chemtrails.jpg

Also how do you explain companies offering chemtrail services?
For instance is this company a hoax? http://www.weathermodification.com/

and this organization too? http://www.weathermodification.org

If they are fake we should report them to the Better business bureau or something ASAP! That would be quite a scam!

Thank you for helping put this chemtrail delusion to rest, so I can join the ranks of the non-cooks.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
How can we search for similar satellite images from 30 years ago? I'm looking at NASA weather sites but I'm not sure where to go.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
cloud seeding is not "chemtrails"

1/ it does not come from engines
2/ it does not look like contrails
3/ it does not expand across the sky t make cirrus clouds
4/ it is done in and under clouds - not clear skies
5/ it is done by light aircraft at low-ish altitude, not from airliners
6/ it is not secret
7/ it is not geoengineering
8/ the equipment it requires is patently obvious on aircraft that do it:

Hope that helps clear up your confusion.
 

cryptonight

New Member
interesting, what about direct observation? i happen to observe contrails as a kid and still do, now they spread into clouds, they did not do that before, why?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
They always have had the ability to do that, though not all will, the one's you were looking at didn't, or you didn't watch them long enough.
Some contrails will still disappear quickly, some will spread out. There are clouds that naturally produce that effect, the contrails that do spread out will often be just in front of a system of those clouds.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
A few minutes after formation a persistent contrail is kind of oval in cross section. Parts have been lofted up in convection driven by the latent heat being released by the phase change from vapor to solid, and some is forced down by the downwash in the wake of the plane.

Anyway, the trail occupies some depth in the atmosphere. If there is a difference in either wind speed or direction (wind shear) between to top and the bottom, the trail will begin to stretch horizontally and spread out. If there is no or little wind shear the trail will remain fairly compact and linear.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
so companies that make chemtrails are real, but chemtrails are not real, got it!
Cloud seeding isn't "chemtrails".

What else could do that?
Only water can do that, as it can freely evaporate and re-condense.

Powders and fine particulates bind water and fall until they hit the deck or evaporate nearly back to plain powder. Volcanoes are the only things that actually and really do make "chemtrails".

So the answer is - nothing else but water can do that.

.
 

cryptonight

New Member

solrey

Senior Member.
Thanks for the replies! I mean at least they were plausible, well maybe not the direct observation part, but today I stumbled on a video
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/162021/Hard_Proof_Chemtrails_are_REAL/

and thought of you guys, wondering what explanation it might have? I'd say companies like www.weathermodification.com deal with fitting also bigger jets with the chemtrail equipment, and it is not quite as obvious as those in MikeC's reply.

Fuel dumps. The maximum landing weight of commercial airliners is much less than the maximum takeoff weight due to the landing gear assembly being subjected to much greater force on landing. If there is an emergency that forces the plane to land before they have used enough fuel to weigh less than the maximum landing weight, then they have to dump fuel.

Here's a thread on the subject of fuel dumps.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...re-they-spraying-wingtip-fuel-dump-photo.645/

Pilots discuss fuel dumps...

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/260151/

Regarding observations, watching the morphology of contrails and clouds in relation to weather systems is one of the things that got me interested in aviation and meteorology when I was a kid. I saw plenty of contrails persist and spread, but there was much less air traffic in the '60's and '70's than there is now.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Regarding observations, watching the morphology of contrails and clouds in relation to weather systems is one of the things that got me interested in aviation and meteorology when I was a kid. I saw plenty of contrails persist and spread, but there was much less air traffic in the '60's and '70's than there is now.

Very true. In the 60s, if you flew somewhere, you were SPECIAL! :) By the late 70s it became more common to fly, but the cost was still a little high.
 

pseacraft

Active Member
... I'd say companies like www.weathermodification.com deal with fitting also bigger jets with the chemtrail equipment, and it is not quite as obvious as those in MikeC's reply...[/quot

I highly doubt that as Weather Modification, Inc are not a big jet 'chop shop' if they even are a work shop, the shop appears to belong to their partner/sibling company Fargo Jet Center (their address is sequential and key management are the same people, two brothers at the top). Their facilities are far too small and lack the large airframe certifications: http://www.fargojet.com/maintenance/op_specs.php You can find their facilities on google earth and see for yourself.
 

KC-10FE

Senior Member.
In response to your "grid" question, here is a picture of an IFR enroute chart. This is what airliners and most high flying aircraft fly every day, hence the same flight paths. The common misconception is that it is the same aircraft crossing back and forth in the sky, when in fact there could be upwards of 5,000 planes per hour in the sky. It is not like commercial airline traffic only flies in one direction, there are thousands of flights going to all parts of the country and the world every hour every day. I have been flying for years and could look up in the sky and have a hard time determining if it was the same aircraft that passed over several minutes before. Airlines such as American, Delta etc have multiple types of the same aircraft, mostly with the same livery. The only way to really distinguish the differences would be by the tail number, which you would not spot with the naked eye. Unless it was from an airline like Emirates that has the name written on the belly of the plane it would be difficult to determine markings


There are two main types of airways, Victor Airways, which are below FL180 or 18,000 feet and Jet Airways which are above FL180. Airways are "highways in the sky" between different navigational aids such as a VORTAC or a GPS fix or RNAV. It is not like you can take off from JFK and be cleared direct LAX.

airway1.jpg
 

KC-10FE

Senior Member.
To chime in on the fuel dump conversation, here we have another video uploaded by a conspiracy theorist, claiming a deadly chemtrail, with slight video editing to make it more intense and dramatic.


Upon 5 minutes of research, we find the original video, depicting an Iberia A340 dumping fuel over the sea.



The second example most commonly depicted on multiple Youtube videos, especially in the one titled "Chemtrails, Fully Exposed" shows this clip at the very beginning of the video



Once again, a quick search finds the original is one of a Continental 777 dumping fuel near Newark after experiencing a hydraulic failure.

 

captfitch

Senior Member.
sky" between different navigational aids such as a VORTAC or a GPS fix or RNAV. It is not like you can take off from JFK and be cleared direct LAX.


Actually, in response to the claim that chemtrail aircraft don't follow normal air traffic routes I often point out that an aircraft could, in theory be cleared from anywhere to anywhere direct. I have twice been cleared from a point just west of the New York area all the way to a point just east of San Francisco. Of course, that was at 3 am and my planned cruise was flight level 430 so there was no traffic to worry about. All to emphasize the fact that there is no such thing as "normal" air route.
 

KC-10FE

Senior Member.
Actually, in response to the claim that chemtrail aircraft don't follow normal air traffic routes I often point out that an aircraft could, in theory be cleared from anywhere to anywhere direct. I have twice been cleared from a point just west of the New York area all the way to a point just east of San Francisco. Of course, that was at 3 am and my planned cruise was flight level 430 so there was no traffic to worry about. All to emphasize the fact that there is no such thing as "normal" air route.

Great comment, I should have added that we are not always on jet routes, the post was mainly to explain the grids in the sky.
 
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