Hawaii Official Who Confirmed the Authenticity of Obama's Birth Certificate Dies in Plane Crash

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
....And the propagandists are already at the helm of this conspiracy theory.


 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
The one thing that I can see fueling most theories is the fact that Fuddy is the only one who was killed out of 8 or so people involved in the crash (as far as we know). Granted that is a miracle that most of them survives as most plane crashes are simply not survivable.

IMO, the birther thing has been thoroughly debunked. I recall a guy on youtube who very thoroughly explains everything about the document though I can't recall the location of the video ATM.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
The cause of the crash was engine failure, but unless they can recover the wreckage there's no way of telling exactly what caused the turbine engine to fail. Sounds like Fuddy died of a heart attack from the stress. Even though she's the Health Director for Hawaii, she looks rather overweight in the pics I've seen, so I wouldn't be surprised if the autopsy finds she died of a heart attack induced by stress or shock. From the account of her deputy director and others, her deputy worked really hard to keep her calm so she may have been in shock or at least really freaked out. Kudos to the pilot for an otherwise successful emergency water landing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...269be0-62e4-11e3-af0d-4bb80d704888_story.html
 
J

Joe

Guest
The one thing that I can see fueling most theories is the fact that Fuddy is the only one who was killed out of 8 or so people involved in the crash (as far as we know). Granted that is a miracle that most of them survives as most plane crashes are simply not survivable.

IMO, the birther thing has been thoroughly debunked. I recall a guy on youtube who very thoroughly explains everything about the document though I can't recall the location of the video ATM.
Only here has it been debunked . Sheriff Joe says otherwise . Not that it matters. We are stuck with him to the end of his term . Unless he impeached :) I can always hope .
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
Only here has it been debunked . Sheriff Joe says otherwise . Not that it matters. We are stuck with him to the end of his term . Unless he impeached :) I can always hope .
It's been debunked by many others at many other places.


The whole series is kinda long. But he explains everything regarding the birth certificate.
 
J

Joe

Guest
It's been debunked by many others at many other places.


The whole series is kinda long. But he explains everything regarding the birth certificate.
until you get to the last one at 9:00 . He just says the layering is normal in PDF . Another fraud trying to sell a book . Actually the African thing is about the strangest thing on the whole thing .
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Granted that is a miracle that most of them survives as most plane crashes are simply not survivable.

Most are survivable. Take the 777 accident at SFO for example. Light aircraft as well. Provided you don't simply fly into a mountain or water at high speed, any sort of pilot control during crash means you have a reasonable chance.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Can I say here that, particularly in a land built by immigration, I cannot really understand the "you gotta be born here", requirement?

Seems pretty discriminatory if nothing else. Surely citizenship and commitment to the country should be the requirements?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
until you get to the last one at 9:00 . He just says the layering is normal in PDF . Another fraud trying to sell a book . Actually the African thing is about the strangest thing on the whole thing .

Layering is normal in a pdf. I'm sure I've even said here that I used to be an illustrator, and frequently my clients would scan in a chart or graph for me to draw for a book. Frequently the graph would be in black and white, with the graph LINE being a different color. The line would be on a different layer. Sometimes some of the type itself would be on a different layer, if a black and white image was scanned into a color copier.

JFDee hit the nail on the head in this post to you: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/contrail-question-for-skeptics.2783/page-5#post-79831

As for the "African" thing, what is so unusual?

Your distrust of the government colors ever opinion you post and you reinforce it with your selection of reading/viewing material.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
Can I say here that, particularly in a land built by immigration, I cannot really understand the "you gotta be born here", requirement?

Seems pretty discriminatory if nothing else. Surely citizenship and commitment to the country should be the requirements?

The thing is that it's not even that cut and dry. Most constitutional scholars agree that Ted Cruz likely qualifies as a natural born citizen despite being born in Canada to an American mother. Granted, is not set in stone and some vetting would be required which I assume will be done if he decides to run.

In which case it will be interesting to see the hypocrisy that will surely surface from the tea party/birthed crowd. :).
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
The thing is that it's not even that cut and dry. Most constitutional scholars agree that Ted Cruz likely qualifies as a natural born citizen despite being born in Canada to an American mother. Granted, is not set in stone and some vetting would be required which I assume will be done if he decides to run.

In which case it will be interesting to see the hypocrisy that will surely surface from the tea party/birthed crowd. :).

John McCain was born in Panama.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
But that was on a U.S. military base which is considered U.S. territory.

Actually the key is:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf

 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz
 
J

Joe

Guest
Layering is normal in a pdf. I'm sure I've even said here that I used to be an illustrator, and frequently my clients would scan in a chart or graph for me to draw for a book. Frequently the graph would be in black and white, with the graph LINE being a different color. The line would be on a different layer. Sometimes some of the type itself would be on a different layer, if a black and white image was scanned into a color copier.

JFDee hit the nail on the head in this post to you: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/contrail-question-for-skeptics.2783/page-5#post-79831

As for the "African" thing, what is so unusual?

Your distrust of the government colors ever opinion you post and you reinforce it with your selection of reading/viewing material.
Janet you seem to have to much faith in government it and clouds you thinking . I just thought the term which was used in the sixties would have been on the BC ? have never seen anyone produce a BC with African other then that one . No I dont by the kenya was not a country crap either . Either way were stuck with the moron for a few more years guess we will see if we elect another smuck for the Whitehouse ? IMO of course . Look up the approval rating for congress the president youll see you are in the minority .
 
J

Joe

Guest
Can I say here that, particularly in a land built by immigration, I cannot really understand the "you gotta be born here", requirement?

Seems pretty discriminatory if nothing else. Surely citizenship and commitment to the country should be the requirements?
So we dont get a manchurian candidate . Someone with no allegiance to our country like some anti colonialist with a big fat chip on his shoulder . Seems to make sense to me ?
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
Joe. The same could be said about you and your distrust in government. And don't take offence to what I'm about to say, but it almost seems that all someone has to do is suggest something negative about Obama or the government in general, and you'll believe it or at least take the claim as credible despite there not being any evidence to support it. Furthermore it seems that you'll cling to that notion regardless of how much evidence has been presented to debunk it.

It's just an observation, and I mean no harm by expressing it. I admit to once having similar sentiments about the world in general.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Joe. The same could be said about you and your distrust in government. And don't take offence to what I'm about to say, but it almost seems that all someone has to do is suggest something negative about Obama or the government in general, and you'll believe it or at least take the claim as credible despite there not being any evidence to support it. Furthermore it seems that you'll cling to that notion regardless of how much evidence has been presented to debunk it.

It's just an observation, and I mean no harm by expressing it. I admit to once having similar sentiments about the world in general.
No problem ! Its makes no difference whether or not he was born here . To me he sucks . my opinion of course . It will be funny when Cruz runs and the Libs do he same . I cant understand why anyone has faith in our government . You guys are in the minority there .
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Your logic is infuriating Joe.

Trusting or distrusting the government has absolutely bat-crap do with claims the birth certificate is fake being itself false - trust in the government does not change it being a load of wishful-thinking.

Thinking there's nothing wrong with the birth certificate does not equal blind trust in the government which you so trollingly insist on at every turn. Stop it.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
I don't have faith in the government. Faith implies belief without evidence. I know that our government isn't always benevolent. I just think that if we're going to criticize as a means produce effective change; we need to focus on what is proven like the massive over reach of the NSA. Unfortunately it seems that the 9/11 truth movement along with the birthers, and many others seem to exist in larger numbers than any NSA protesting movement that I've seen. And that's pretty disappointing.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
So we dont get a manchurian candidate . Someone with no allegiance to our country like some anti colonialist with a big fat chip on his shoulder . Seems to make sense to me ?

But sociopaths who sound convincing but are only out to further their own egos are OK?

Fairly weak reason there Joe. Being born somewhere doesn't necessarily make you more committed to a country than someone who wasn't. Immigrants, in my experience anyway, tend to appreciate their adopted country in ways others don't.

From what I have seen of the US political process, especially the presidential race, people get found out pretty quickly if they have something undesirable to hide.

The list of great Americans who don't qualify for the highest office by an arbitrary rule would be very thought provoking.
 
J

Joe

Guest
But sociopaths who sound convincing but are only out to further their own egos are OK?

Fairly weak reason there Joe. Being born somewhere doesn't necessarily make you more committed to a country than someone who wasn't. Immigrants, in my experience anyway, tend to appreciate their adopted country in ways others don't.

From what I have seen of the US political process, especially the presidential race, people get found out pretty quickly if they have something undesirable to hide.

The list of great Americans who don't qualify for the highest office by an arbitrary rule would be very thought provoking.
Well I wont disagree wtih you at all . Its not like we get the cream of the crop with those born here as well . If we quit elected lawyers that would help .
 
J

Joe

Guest
I don't have faith in the government. Faith implies belief without evidence. I know that our government isn't always benevolent. I just think that if we're going to criticize as a means produce effective change; we need to focus on what is proven like the massive over reach of the NSA. Unfortunately it seems that the 9/11 truth movement along with the birthers, and many others seem to exist in larger numbers than any NSA protesting movement that I've seen. And that's pretty disappointing.
You cant compare the Truthers and the Birthers . With the birthers its just wishful thinking that everything that has been signed into law would be null and void if he was found to be a fraud .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I think you need to remember the era in which the Constitution was written - one where absolute monarchies were still quite common and the prospect of "aristocrats" taking over Govt was actually quite real (eg counter revolution in France, and through Europe & Sth America in the early 1800's).

My (amateur) understanding is that the US wanted to ensure that no "old world" class systems got into positions of power in the new world, and this was a fairly simple way of blocking the more obvious of them.

Cf the UK still blocks Catholics from being monarch, although the monarch is allowed to marry one!

which may be OK for the poms (although increasingly not I suspect) but is downright odd for us ex-colonies who have our own monarchy (in the sense it is enabled by local legislation not UK) embodied in the same person...which is odd enough in the 1st place - and we're all changing our own legislation to stay in step with the UK on this matter - triply odd!!

so no - I don't think the US provision particularly strange!
 
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AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
You cant compare the Truthers and the Birthers . With the birthers its just wishful thinking that everything that has been signed into law would be null and void if he was found to be a fraud .
I would agree with the latter part of that. But I wasnt comparing anything. I was just citing examples of various movements.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
so no - I don't think the US provision particularly strange!

It is not strange in the context of which it was written. It is an anachronism though. Californians elected Schwarzenegger without much of a problem.

This guy makes some excellent points.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Janet you seem to have to much faith in government it and clouds you thinking . I just thought the term which was used in the sixties would have been on the BC ? have never seen anyone produce a BC with African other then that one . No I dont by the kenya was not a country crap either . Either way were stuck with the moron for a few more years guess we will see if we elect another smuck for the Whitehouse ? IMO of course . Look up the approval rating for congress the president youll see you are in the minority .

How many birth certificates from Hawaii have you seen where one of the parents were from Africa?

You're stuck with someone you don't like in the white house for a few more years. Right. Get over it. Then you'll either be stuck again, or someone else will be. You can't make everyone happy.

By the way, you didn't acknowledge being wrong about the pdf layers. :rolleyes:
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
No problem ! Its makes no difference whether or not he was born here . To me he sucks . my opinion of course . It will be funny when Cruz runs and the Libs do he same . I cant understand why anyone has faith in our government . You guys are in the minority there .

Since many many many conservatives claimed BOTH parents had to be citizens in order for the child to be, and that Obama did NOT qualify because his father wasn't---I'll be more interested in seeing what the conservatives say if Cruz is nominated. Or their REACTION if the liberals bring up the same argument. :)
 
J

Joe

Guest
It is not strange in the context of which it was written. It is an anachronism though. Californians elected Schwarzenegger without much of a problem.

This guy makes some excellent points.
the election of Swh
How many birth certificates from Hawaii have you seen where one of the parents were from Africa?

You're stuck with someone you don't like in the white house for a few more years. Right. Get over it. Then you'll either be stuck again, or someone else will be. You can't make everyone happy.

By the way, you didn't acknowledge being wrong about the pdf layers. :rolleyes:
I know nothing about PDF layers I just said at the end of the guys video he says its totally normal for them to be that way . whether or not the original was altered he wouldnt say . Then other experts on the other side say the opposite . So those on the left will belive what they want and those on the right who are going to get hammered by OBAMACARE could only wish the birthers are right . No either way we all get stuck . You just think your guys different but he seems to just be a continuation of the last guy .
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
the election of Swh

I know nothing about PDF layers I just said at the end of the guys video he says its totally normal for them to be that way . whether or not the original was altered he wouldnt say . Then other experts on the other side say the opposite . So those on the left will belive what they want and those on the right who are going to get hammered by OBAMACARE could only wish the birthers are right . No either way we all get stuck . You just think your guys different but he seems to just be a continuation of the last guy .

I just believe there are layers because I've opened pdfs and found them myself. However, I've also opened pdfs and NOT found layers. So obviously there are other scanner settings that may affect whether or not layers are created.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Since many many many conservatives claimed BOTH parents had to be citizens in order for the child to be, and that Obama did NOT qualify because his father wasn't---I'll be more interested in seeing what the conservatives say if Cruz is nominated. Or their REACTION if the liberals bring up the same argument. :)
Well those in the birther community says he is not eligible . So that leads me to believe they are not as partisan as we think . It was Hillary that stated the birther movement against Obama .
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Well those in the birther community says he is not eligible . So that leads me to believe they are not as partisan as we think . It was Hillary that stated the birther movement against Obama .


The birther community isn't partisan? Regardless of the fact that Hillary questioned his eligibility, most of the people who are birthers I think are left wing also.
 

Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
So we dont get a manchurian candidate . Someone with no allegiance to our country like some anti colonialist with a big fat chip on his shoulder . Seems to make sense to me ?

Er, the Manchurian Candidate was a citizen that had been brainwashed.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/...rying_to_determine_Fuddys_cause_of_death.html
Almost certainly a heart attack. Obviously ridiculous to orchestrate something like that for such an ordinary cause of death.
 
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