Gimbal distance and Speed Range Estimates using Lines of Bearing and/or DCS

Amber Robot

Active Member
8190E22A-9C5A-4C31-A9F3-1701C2DA6F2D.jpegVenus can be seen in the daytime for sure if you know exactly where to look. You don’t need a telescope.

I took this photo of Venus at 11:43am on January 1, 2019 with a Canon D77and my zoom lens at 300mm (iso 100, f7.1, 1/500sec)

the brightness of Venus is higher than the crescent moon. I saw the two earlier morning when the sky was dark and that helped me find it later in the day and take this shot.
 

jplaza

Member
8190E22A-9C5A-4C31-A9F3-1701C2DA6F2D.jpegVenus can be seen in the daytime for sure if you know exactly where to look. You don’t need a telescope.

I took this photo of Venus at 11:43am on January 1, 2019 with a Canon D77and my zoom lens at 300mm (iso 100, f7.1, 1/500sec)

the brightness of Venus is higher than the crescent moon. I saw the two earlier morning when the sky was dark and that helped me find it later in the day and take this shot.

When you took that (really nice) photo, Venus was at the edge of its orbit, when it is the brightest, due to its phase and distance to the Earth (0.64 AU, being 1 AU the distance Earth - Sun)
stellarium-004.png


For the gimbal video, AFAIK, it was some day in January 2015. By that time, Venus was at the far side of the orbit, "behind" the sun. Even if its phase was full, it was a 1.5 AU of distance. Also, as the gimbal object is near the horizon, it means it had to be either before 9 am in the morning (with the sun already up in the sky, making it more difficult to see venus), or near 7 pm, when the sun already set, it's darker and it may be easier to spot venus in IR (exact hours depends on the time zone and place, but anyway, it's just a quick look.)
stellarium-002.png
stellarium-003.png

Anyway, the apparent size of Venus is so small that even if it could be seen in MWIR (which I doubt), in a 640 pixel FPA with 0.7º FoV it would be as big as ...2 pixels. (NAR 2X FoV is a digital zoom, it doesn chage the number of pixels actually illuminated by the object).
 

Cassi O

Active Member
Anyway, the apparent size of Venus is so small that even if it could be seen in MWIR (which I doubt), in a 640 pixel FPA with 0.7º FoV it would be as big as ...2 pixels. (NAR 2X FoV is a digital zoom, it doesn chage the number of pixels actually illuminated by the object).

Venus is in a similar position in its orbit now as it was in Jan '15.

This is a cropped photo I took with a full spectrum camera and R720 IR filter a couple evenings ago.

1627612079889.png
 
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jplaza

Member
Venus is in a similar position in its orbit now as it was in Jan '15.

This is a cropped photo I took with a full spectrum camera and R720 IR filter a couple evenings ago.
Nice pic. But that's in the near IR, limited to what a Silicon device (CCD) is sensible to (max. 1.1 um wavelength). Also, that's the reflection of the sun in Venus, which is still a lot of energy. Compared to the Mid-IR, its about 100 times more energy than you have in MWIR (3.7-5.0 um wavelength), where an InSb FPA is sensible.




Spectrum.png

(blue: Visible+near IR. Red: MWIR)
 

Cassi O

Active Member
Nice pic. But that's in the near IR, limited to what a Silicon device (CCD) is sensible to (max. 1.1 um wavelength). Also, that's the reflection of the sun in Venus, which is still a lot of energy. Compared to the Mid-IR, its about 100 times more energy than you have in MWIR (3.7-5.0 um wavelength), where an InSb FPA is sensible.

The IR filter knocks down the brightness and improves contrast, which according to the article I linked in a previous post, helps to see Venus during the day.

The other trick is focus. One time I saw Venus before sunset naked eye, and what really helped was it was near a crescent moon, like in Amber Robot's photo above. I could only see Venus after my eyes adjusted to seeing the distant moon. Same goes for the camera. without something to focus on, Venus disappears against the bright sky. My photo above was taken after sunset when Venus was clearly visible.

No idea what can be seen with an InSb FPA chip. The FLIR pod has a much larger aperture (12" ?) than my camera lens, so collects far more light.
 
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Cassi O

Active Member
Searched the internet for mid/far infrared planet images and found but one:

1627734682501.png

Infrared image of Jupiter from SOFIA’s First Light flight composed of individual images at wavelengths of 5.4 (blue), 24 (green) and 37 microns (red) made by Cornell University’s FORCAST camera. Ground-based infrared observations are impossible at 5.4 and 37 microns and normally very difficult at 24 microns even from high mountain-top observatories such as Mauna Kea due to absorption by water and other molecules in Earth’s atmosphere.

Source: https://www.nasa.gov/content/sofia-studies-planets

I think this puts to bed any chance a FLIR camera can capture celestial objects or man made satellites outside earths atmosphere, especially an object on the horizon like in the GIMBAL video.
 
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jplaza

Member
The 3-5 micron range is a transmission window in atmosphere for IR, with very low absorbance. That's one of the reasons(*) why it is used by ATFLIR.
But being able to image a planet I guess has more to do with very low radiation from the source, using large apertures and long exposures, and struggling with scattered light from other sources. Maybe with a dedicated equipment you can get it, but it's not ATFLIR purpouse and I would't expect it to do it.


(*)Another one is that the range includes the emission band of CO2, one of the by-products of combustion of a jet motor.
 
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