German Gov Kidnaps & Detains 14yr old Girl For disturbing sense of family Solidarity

German government kidnaps (in a SWAT style raid) a 14 yr old girl from her parents and places her in a mental institution because her government sponsored psych eval reported that she has "a disturbing sense of family solidarity". Some may say "so what" and others may say "it’s not here in America so why care" but what you can't say is "didn't happen, it’s a conspiracy". While home schooling may not be treated as a crime here in the US as it is in Germany (some homeschoolers in Germany are labeled traitors by their loving government) you can bet that what is done and allowed to continue overseas that gives the government more power over the people, will eventually be tried here.

For those of you with kids of your own be forewarned you may be really angered by the time the story is over.



Full storyand video at http://xrepublic.tv/node/2941=
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That's from 2007, and she was 15.

Home schooling is actually illegal in Germany. While you might not agree with the law (I don't), they are just enforcing it.

She was not placed in an institution because she has "a disturbing sense of family solidarity". She was taken for tests which she refused to take, then placed in foster care for a couple of months, then ran away when she was 16, then left alone.

http://educatinggermany.7doves.com/2008/02/29/busekros
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
There are a lot of German laws that we would not put up with. If a dog weighs over 40 lbs it is considered vicious and it must be muzzled when not at home. No litter of puppies is allowed to have more than either 5 or 6 puppies. Someone from the government comes out to cull your one week old puppies.

Not a country I would want to live in. What is funny is a work (volunteer) for a German based game company.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
It is to keep the overpopulation of dogs down, Many areas of Europe are a lot more crowded than we are in much of the US.

There is a reason that Germany is not on wish list of countries I wish to visit.
 

pseacraft

Active Member
The German's are oh so very popular here in Cyprus lately....NOT Which makes me laugh.

I think every country and region has its quirky laws but then they are quirky because we are not from there. To me this is were part of the "Ugly American' is derived, we expect where we go to be like home. This applies to many peoples not just Americans, we just got labeled with the cool name. :cool:
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
Interesting, that none of the sources says, that this family (and some other families wanted to do homeschooling, there a just a handfull) is participating in an evangelican champagne-like church. They want to do homeschooling, because from their side of view, normal schools are to liberal at topics like sexual education, biology, evolution-theory etc.

And for the thing about puppies, i would realy get a source. Only some breeds used for figth dogs ("Kampfhund") are strong regulated and the owner have to get a license to hold these dogs. He must be able to educate and control the dog in every sitation and this will be tested.

There where several incidents with figting-dogs hurting childrens on the playground, one child died by the attack of such a dog. You migth know that in germany you need a license to have a weapon like a gun, so it was a real problem that a lot of people used drilled figthing-dogs as a weapon. And these dogs where also a kind of "status-symbol", so some (more poor families) wants to hold and breed them without any knowledge how to take care of them.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
The article I read was in one of the dog magazines several years ago. At that time, I trusted what I read in most print publications. I do want to follow up next week on it. I am now wondering if it was proposed, maybe in one place and was never voted in or even reached that point.

That will have to wait until next week, since I have a show (for my jewelry) this weekend and I am not going to have computer time.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
The German's are oh so very popular here in Cyprus lately....NOT Which makes me laugh.

I think every country and region has its quirky laws but then they are quirky because we are not from there. To me this is were part of the "Ugly American' is derived, we expect where we go to be like home. This applies to many peoples not just Americans, we just got labeled with the cool name. :cool:
Last I was in Cyprus, they had no dogs. I was told they ate them all during the war... shoulda saved some for a rainy day :)
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
The article I read was in one of the dog magazines several years ago. At that time, I trusted what I read in most print publications. I do want to follow up next week on it. I am now wondering if it was proposed, maybe in one place and was never voted in or even reached that point.

That will have to wait until next week, since I have a show (for my jewelry) this weekend and I am not going to have computer time.
Yes, this was some years ago and "typical German" our government tends to overact when a story runs through the media.

Newspaper where counting the attacked children "Victim No. 6 attacked by a figthing dog". And Politics want´s to do something and reacts to fast. You must know that the laws keeping a dog doesn´t come from the federal german gouvernment, the States like Bavarian, Hessen etc, have all their own regulations for dogs. So one dog in one state was named a "figthing dog" in another State it would be a normal dog. a table which state would name wich dog a "figthing-dog" is here http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasseliste#Rasselisten_der_deutschen_Bundesl.C3.A4nder
That has to do with the taxes a dog-owner has to pay for his dogs, these taxes are regulated by the states or by the greater cities.

(What? Taxes for dogs? Yes. Official the tax is used to keep the streets and parks clean from... what a dog left behind :)

The Taxes for "Figthing-Dogs" where pushed up and the licensing to own them also costs money. So what did thousands of dog-keepers do? They set them out or gived them to an animal-shelter. But no one would take these dogs out of the shelter because it would be to expansive to hold them. So we had thousands of thousands dogs nobody want. And some states released these silly regulations like "A dog of this breed is only allowed to get 5 Puppies".

That was really a bad story right after this new regulation for figthing-dogs was in power, but it´s over and now it´s leveled as far as i know it...
 

Joe

Senior Member
German government kidnaps (in a SWAT style raid) a 14 yr old girl from her parents and places her in a mental institution because her government sponsored psych eval reported that she has "a disturbing sense of family solidarity". Some may say "so what" and others may say "it’s not here in America so why care" but what you can't say is "didn't happen, it’s a conspiracy". While home schooling may not be treated as a crime here in the US as it is in Germany (some homeschoolers in Germany are labeled traitors by their loving government) you can bet that what is done and allowed to continue overseas that gives the government more power over the people, will eventually be tried here.

For those of you with kids of your own be forewarned you may be really angered by the time the story is over.



Full storyand video at http://xrepublic.tv/node/2941=
I heard that law was enacted during the Nazi Era ? beck did a story on a German family that came here just for that reason and now they want to send them back to Germany Our Government is now saying there is no right to home school So we want Islamic terrorist to stay but not German Christain families ?
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
That Homeschooling is illegal in germany is simply wrong, but we have "Compulsory school attendance" (Schulpflicht)

translation of the german wikiepdia about homeschooling:

Since Germany is not compulsory education, but Education is compulsory and this is in contrast tied to a school such as the Austrian compulsory education (compulsory education, compulsory school attendance), may only be waived in special cases by the attending school and home schooling are granted. The Court ruling allowed home schooling for students whose parents work abroad, or for students who are not fit for disability or illness ("sick teaching"). Again, the National Curriculum and examined teachers the foundation of teaching.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausunterricht

This seems to be a cultural difference between euorpean and americans.
Nobody in Germany wants to do homeschooling. From our point of view, visiting a school is important for a child to learn social behavior. Only religios extreems does´t want to get their kids to school. And who says that the parants have the ability to teach their child what it needs to know?

If you are a professional teacher, you can do homeschooling your kids in Germany, if you want...
If you dont like official schools from the state, there are private schools, if you are eligios ther are also catholic and evangelic schools available and even the esoteric Waldorfschools are schools you can send your Kids without doing something illegal.

The family you metioned in the video is strongly evangelican, believing in creationsim, that the man leads the family and the woman has to follow his orders. etc. They think sending their childs to school would be harmfull for them, because they learn the wrong things on school.

Maybe they would be viewed as normal in the Bible-belt, but for the german mentality, this seems just crazy and harmfull for the kids...

And sorry, our Mentality about "freedom of religion" ist a little bit different from US-Americans.

I can understand that Americans find this crazy, but please accept that here in germany, these people seeems to be very crazy and nobody understands what they want. These are only around a dozen families that wont take their kids to school (population Germany: 80 Millions)

Regarding the sources quoted here, there where some radical formulations that where extremly exaggerated in a hatefull way...

It´s simple. German (and most european law) says: Children should go to school, exceptions are possible. This family doesn´t accept this law, had a longtime prozess with the schoolboard and some courts over years and have lost them all.
 
That Homeschooling is illegal in germany is simply wrong, but we have "Compulsory school attendance" (Schulpflicht)

translation of the german wikiepdia about homeschooling:


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausunterricht

This seems to be a cultural difference between euorpean and americans.
Nobody in Germany wants to do homeschooling. From our point of view, visiting a school is important for a child to learn social behavior. Only religios extreems does´t want to get their kids to school. And who says that the parants have the ability to teach their child what it needs to know?

If you are a professional teacher, you can do homeschooling your kids in Germany, if you want...
If you dont like official schools from the state, there are private schools, if you are eligios ther are also catholic and evangelic schools available and even the esoteric Waldorfschools are schools you can send your Kids without doing something illegal.

The family you metioned in the video is strongly evangelican, believing in creationsim, that the man leads the family and the woman has to follow his orders. etc. They think sending their childs to school would be harmfull for them, because they learn the wrong things on school.

Maybe they would be viewed as normal in the Bible-belt, but for the german mentality, this seems just crazy and harmfull for the kids...

And sorry, our Mentality about "freedom of religion" ist a little bit different from US-Americans.

I can understand that Americans find this crazy, but please accept that here in germany, these people seeems to be very crazy and nobody understands what they want. These are only around a dozen families that wont take their kids to school (population Germany: 80 Millions)

Regarding the sources quoted here, there where some radical formulations that where extremly exaggerated in a hatefull way...

It´s simple. German (and most european law) says: Children should go to school, exceptions are possible. This family doesn´t accept this law, had a longtime prozess with the schoolboard and some courts over years and have lost them all.

If there are only a dozen families or so that don't want to send their kids to public school then why is your governemnt expending taxpayer money (I assume the German government is funded by its citizens via taxes of one form or another) to go after a few dozen children? Could this have more to do with setting an example so as to esnure other German families do not even think about trying to take thier kids out of public school? This is akin to American Federal, State & Local governmnets expending ridcolous amounts of money to prosecute someone over something insignificnat simply to make an example of them, to demonstrate that no one challanges government. Government is the only industry in which the law and logic of finance and budget do not apply. In the private sector if sales are down you cut costs. In Government if funding is down then you simply tax the peasents more.

As far as crazy goes, Germany has its own dark history that at the time the rest of the world saw as beyond crazy. Does that mean that every German was equally crazy because of the actions of a few or even one individual? Just because you don't share the same religious beliefs that the family featured in this video does, does that mean your belief is superior and should be forced upon them? In America our form of government (as it was setup and not as it currently operates ) was designed to provide representation via democracy without the "Bully by the Majority" side effect that comes with a pure democracy. In America the rights of the few are NOT outwieghed by the desires of the many.
 

Joe

Senior Member
That Homeschooling is illegal in germany is simply wrong, but we have "Compulsory school attendance" (Schulpflicht)

translation of the german wikiepdia about homeschooling:


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausunterricht

This seems to be a cultural difference between euorpean and americans.
Nobody in Germany wants to do homeschooling. From our point of view, visiting a school is important for a child to learn social behavior. Only religios extreems does´t want to get their kids to school. And who says that the parants have the ability to teach their child what it needs to know?

If you are a professional teacher, you can do homeschooling your kids in Germany, if you want...
If you dont like official schools from the state, there are private schools, if you are eligios ther are also catholic and evangelic schools available and even the esoteric Waldorfschools are schools you can send your Kids without doing something illegal.

The family you metioned in the video is strongly evangelican, believing in creationsim, that the man leads the family and the woman has to follow his orders. etc. They think sending their childs to school would be harmfull for them, because they learn the wrong things on school.

Maybe they would be viewed as normal in the Bible-belt, but for the german mentality, this seems just crazy and harmfull for the kids...

And sorry, our Mentality about "freedom of religion" ist a little bit different from US-Americans.

I can understand that Americans find this crazy, but please accept that here in germany, these people seeems to be very crazy and nobody understands what they want. These are only around a dozen families that wont take their kids to school (population Germany: 80 Millions)

Regarding the sources quoted here, there where some radical formulations that where extremly exaggerated in a hatefull way...

It´s simple. German (and most european law) says: Children should go to school, exceptions are possible. This family doesn´t accept this law, had a longtime process with the schoolboard and some courts over years and have lost them all.
Who is to say the government can do a better job then the parents ? I know a lot of home schoolers and its seems that the children do much bettter then those in public schools . They still have to meet standards . The children are not the property of any government .
 

Joe

Senior Member
, The banning of homeschooling in Germany started with the Nazis.We all know how many wonderful ideas the Nazis had. They not only left the rest of Europe in flames, but did themselves and Germany in, in the bargain. If ever a group had no regard for human life or human rights, certainly that group would be the Nazis, would it not?
Let’s ask the obvious. Why would the Nazi’s ban homeschool. Clearly they intended to precisely control everything that a child learned. How else could the Hitler Youth have come into existence? Why else would a child turn his own parents into the SS unless that child had been thoroughly brainwashed – er, excuse me – “educated”.
We know better today, right? Germany is no longer under the control of the Nazi Party, right? That is right, isn’t it? Yet the banning of home school in Germany, initiated by the Nazi Party, continues today. It is violently enforced, using tactics frighteningly reminiscent of the Nazis.
Much of the rest of Europe falls into goose-step line as we speak, as we will cover in upcoming articles. Perhaps Hitler will win the war after all. He certainly will win it in Germany if the German people do today as they have done in the past – support their “government” and obey orders.
so why do they still practice this ? This is why they want common core here as well in America .
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
Who is to say the government can do a better job then the parents ?
Ok, it is a cultural difference ;-)

It is not the gouvernment educating the childs, but gouvernment says, school-education should be done by professionals.

I know only one Family near my hometown. This case was well-reportet by the local news. And this...

They still have to meet standards
...exactly this was their problems. They don´t accept these standards to reach. Schoolboard had made an offer that the children doesn´t have to go to school but should be present at written tests. The Family doesn´t aceppted this, because this would include tests in biology and the father still doesn´t want that he had to educate his childs in early earth-history, reproduction, that humans are just intelligent "animals" etc.


The banning of homeschooling in Germany started with the Nazis
so why do they still practice this ? This is why they want common core here as well in America .
This is just wrong, the "Schulpflicht" for whole germany startet 1919 in the weihmarer Republic.

Art 145 here http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/dokumente/verfassung/index.html

Nazi-Germany just changed some points and the name of the law in "REichsschulgesetz" for example jews where are outtaken of the schulpflicht because... well you know german history: jewish childs in concentration-camps can´t go to school. :-/

BTW. These "this cames from a Nazi-law" is a very maniplative way of arguing. Germany has a lot of laws, some are from the Weihmarer Republic, some of them are from the third Reich and some of them are from after WWII. A Paragraph that was usefull before and had nothing to do with nazism, why should they change it?!
 

Joe

Senior Member
Ok, it is a cultural difference ;-)

It is not the gouvernment educating the childs, but gouvernment says, school-education should be done by professionals.

I know only one Family near my hometown. This case was well-reportet by the local news. And this...



...exactly this was their problems. They don´t accept these standards to reach. Schoolboard had made an offer that the children doesn´t have to go to school but should be present at written tests. The Family doesn´t aceppted this, because this would include tests in biology and the father still doesn´t want that he had to educate his childs in early earth-history, reproduction, that humans are just intelligent "animals" etc.




This is just wrong, the "Schulpflicht" for whole germany startet 1919 in the weihmarer Republic.

Art 145 here http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/dokumente/verfassung/index.html

Nazi-Germany just changed some points and the name of the law in "REichsschulgesetz" for example jews where are outtaken of the schulpflicht because... well you know german history: jewish childs in concentration-camps can´t go to school. :-/

BTW. These "this cames from a Nazi-law" is a very maniplative way of arguing. Germany has a lot of laws, some are from the Weihmarer Republic, some of them are from the third Reich and some of them are from after WWII. A Paragraph that was usefull before and had nothing to do with nazism, why should they change it?!
Thank you very interesting lesson . I think that the parents should have to meet standards but should be able to teach although I think its important for a child to be around other children as well . Of course all my children went to PS and as much as I complain about them they came out OK . Being of German decent myself (surname ) I do think Germany is one of the best countries there is . Lets leave it at cultural differences :)
 

Kevin45345

New Member
This is just wrong, the "Schulpflicht" for whole germany startet 1919 in the weihmarer Republic.

Art 145 here http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/dokumente/verfassung/index.html
Article 145
Schooling is obligatory. This obligation is served by the Volksschule with at least 8 school years and the school for further instruction, following on the former, until the completed 18th year. Instruction and learning aids are, at Volksschule and at schools for further instruction, free of charge.

Source: http://www.zum.de/psm/weimar/weimar_vve.php#Fourth%20Chapter%20:%20Education%20and%20School
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
(I think this posting wasn´t visible at my last visit)

If there are only a dozen families or so that don't want to send their kids to public school then why is your governemnt expending taxpayer money (I assume the German government is funded by its citizens via taxes of one form or another) to go after a few dozen children? Could this have more to do with setting an example so as to esnure other German families do not even think about trying to take thier kids out of public school?
THe article you´ve posted first and the comment in the video is stronly exaggerated, this wasn´t a "Swat-Team" presented in the video, this was bavarian gemeindepolizei (Municipal police) in their Uniform for rainy days. Normaly they have not much to do early in the morning, but must stay ready. The costs (Yes they are payed by taxes) for this wouldnt rise much, because they are payed unless if they have to do someting or not.

But the bavarian Police is known for their hang to overact, they behave more the texanian way. Germany is a federal state and we have some strong conservative States Bavarian tops them all and some very libeal states. Police and School are in the responsabiliy of the state and not by the federal gouvernment. Bavarian is known for his strongest police and the hardest school system. And - wondering - the bavarian people allways elects the conservative politicans reponsible for that. Bavarian is our Texas. ;)

in Bremen, or schleswig Holstein (the most "liberal" states) two cops in uniform and without weapons would ring on the door and ask the Parents to hand out there childrens to bring them to school. Wow. A personal School-Taxi driven by the police.

BTW: Back to Schulpflicht. The "Nazi-School-Law" was canceled from federal law and the responsibility for all schoolar questions wents to the States. But they all have "Schulpflicht" and all handle this the own way. So much to the claim that this all hapens due to a Law made or used by Nazi-Germany...

As far as crazy goes, Germany has its own dark history that at the time the rest of the world saw as beyond crazy. Does that mean that every German was equally crazy because of the actions of a few or even one individual? Just because you don't share the same religious beliefs that the family featured in this video does, does that mean your belief is superior and should be forced upon them? In America our form of government (as it was setup and not as it currently operates ) was designed to provide representation via democracy without the "Bully by the Majority" side effect that comes with a pure democracy. In America the rights of the few are NOT outwieghed by the desires of the many.
It seems that you don´t know much about Germany today and it seems to me that you dont really be interested in details. Some details.The Nazi-Reich is over. Yes we are voting our gouvernments, paying taxes for some overacting bavarian police (but they do shot very, very rarely) In every Parliament there are 3-6 different Partys, not only two blockading each other. and hey, We have a gay-marriaged Foreign-Minister, Abortion is allowed under restrictions, scientology is not accepted as Church here, and our "obama-care" started over 100 years ago.

Just kidding. I wonder what the 10.000 Policemens in Watertown had cost the taxpayer

YOu americans have prejudices about Europeans and especially Germans.
We have also prejudices about US-Americans.
Your and our media is reforcing these prejudices.

...somebody should starting stop this spiral
 

Joe

Senior Member
YOu americans have prejudices about Europeans and especially Germans.
We have also prejudices about US-Americans.
Your and our media is reforcing these prejudices.

...somebody should starting stop this spiral
we are by communicating this way .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
As a point of interest, remember that Germany is where the reformation moer or less began, and they fought some very bloody wars about religion - not about freedom of religion - but about enforcing religion.

the Peace of Augsburg in 1555 had tried to settle religious differences along the principle of cuius regio, eius religio - the rulers religion is the people's religion (for each small or large German state), and that did stop the first wave of religious wars, but did not address pluralism and only recognised Catholicism and Lutheranism - Calvinists and various other protestant churches were all still illegal.

It all, more or less, ended in 1648, with the Treaty of Westphalia - but consider that these wars and the results of them have influenced European and hence world politics and religious tolerance for the 4-500 years since - not so dorectly in eth last 300 years - but certainly indirectly by creating the concept of sovereign staets, how they should interact, tolerance of religion, and the like.

To write off German cultural traditions on the basis of a relative upstart such as the USA - which has plenty of cultural problems of its own - seems quite short sighted.
 
Top