General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years

[Titus Dafoe]

There is a very popular video among conspiracy theorists of retired ex-General Wesley Clark talking about America invading seven Middle Eastern countries over a period of five years.

He is quoted with saying “We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran”.

Obviously it has taken more than five years and not all of those countries have been invaded or will be invaded.

So what was Wesley on about and why do CT's cling to his words when he has been wrong?

[video=youtube_share;iuVVml5Dp2s]http://youtu.be/iuVVml5Dp2s[/video]

 

[Joe]

There is a very popular video among conspiracy theorists of retired ex-General Wesley Clark talking about America invading seven Middle Eastern countries over a period of five years.

He is quoted with saying “We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran”.

Obviously it has taken more than five years and not all of those countries have been invaded or will be invaded.

So what was Wesley on about and why do CT's cling to his words when he has been wrong?

[video=youtube_share;iuVVml5Dp2s]http://youtu.be/iuVVml5Dp2s[/video]

he might have got the countries wrong ? Libya , Egypt , Iraq , Tunisia , Syria ,

 

[Joe]

This Video contains that clip but goes a little more into detail . He says its Petro Dollars for the Iraq war and Libya . I dont agree with all of it but some of it makes you think ? ​

 

[lee h oswald]

There is a very popular video among conspiracy theorists of retired ex-General Wesley Clark talking about America invading seven Middle Eastern countries over a period of five years.

He is quoted with saying “We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran”.

Obviously it has taken more than five years and not all of those countries have been invaded or will be invaded.

So what was Wesley on about and why do CT's cling to his words when he has been wrong?

Is it really a shock to you that General Clark says wars are planned (and things don't always go according to plan)? You don't think they are?

If you understand anything about geo-politics and the imperialism of the USukisnato criminal syndicate - then you can see what's going on. Can't you? The US wants domination - nothing less - and controlling resources is vital to achieving that aim; and through that, also controlling the destiny of your rivals.

Iraq? Job done? Only about 1 million dead (since the invasion in 2003 - and about another million due to prior 'sanctions'); 4 million displaced; an epidemic of mental illness; an epidemic of birth defects due to poisoned environment (uranium and other heavy metals); an epidemic of cancers due to the same; nearly one million widows; 2 million directly physically affected by weaponry. A real success. And it continues. They got operation 'Enduring Freedom', but we got a fair bit of the oil, though.

Libya - a country without a central bank system linked in to the rest, ie. independent - and Gaddaffi was doing all kind of neat things, launching a Telecoms satellite and all - that would rob US companies of their african telecoms business, just for one. Don't even mention the oil the Chinese were buying there, and the 30,000 Chinese workers forced out by the er, 'no-fly-zone' aka - USuk turkey shoot. He's out the way now, old Muammar, after being sodomized and strung up - and how Hillary laughed, remember? Freedom and democracy - that's what it's all about. And civilization, mustn't forget that.

Now Syria - arming jihadists to do the dirty work - they have to do Syria and Lebanon (Hezbollah) in order to pave the way for Iran - another independent country - and lots of oil too - bonus! The Iranians are currently having their economy ruined by specious 'sanctions' relating to US bullshit about their nuclear situation. A lot of Iranians are hungry right now. It's called 'strategy'.

As for Somalia and Sudan - we'll see. But I'm sure it's part of the plan. What'll also be part of the plan will be the question: At what point do China and/or Russia (+ Brazil, India and South Africa) say - that's it? Do you think they've planned for it?

 

[Oxymoron]

Is it really a shock to you that General Clark says wars are planned (and things don't always go according to plan)? You don't think they are?

If you understand anything about geo-politics and the imperialism of the USukisnato criminal syndicate - then you can see what's going on. Can't you? The US wants domination - nothing less - and controlling resources is vital to achieving that aim; and through that, also controlling the destiny of your rivals.

Iraq? Job done? Only about 1 million dead (since the invasion in 2003 - and about another million due to prior 'sanctions'); 4 million displaced; an epidemic of mental illness; an epidemic of birth defects due to poisoned environment (uranium and other heavy metals); an epidemic of cancers due to the same; nearly one million widows; 2 million directly physically affected by weaponry. A real success. And it continues. They got operation 'Enduring Freedom', but we got a fair bit of the oil, though.

Libya - a country without a central bank system linked in to the rest, ie. independent - and Gaddaffi was doing all kind of neat things, launching a Telecoms satellite and all - that would rob US companies of their african telecoms business, just for one. Don't even mention the oil the Chinese were buying there, and the 30,000 Chinese workers forced out by the er, 'no-fly-zone' aka - USuk turkey shoot. He's out the way now, old Muammar, after being sodomized and strung up - and how Hillary laughed, remember? Freedom and democracy - that's what it's all about. And civilization, mustn't forget that.

Now Syria - arming jihadists to do the dirty work - they have to do Syria and Lebanon (Hezbollah) in order to pave the way for Iran - another independent country - and lots of oil too - bonus! The Iranians are currently having their economy ruined by specious 'sanctions' relating to US bullshit about their nuclear situation. A lot of Iranians are hungry right now. It's called 'strategy'.

As for Somalia and Sudan - we'll see. But I'm sure it's part of the plan. What'll also be part of the plan will be the question: At what point to China and/or Russia (+ Brazil, India and South Africa) say - that's it? Do you think they've planned for it?

Didn't realise it was a conspiracy theory. thought it was a well known conspiracy fact.

 

[George B]

While I cannot deny it is easy to connect dots and make these claims . . .
like most countries and pseudo-empires the average American like the average British subject 200 years ago have no idea of the grand plan nor do they understand their complicity in the process . . . there is so much propaganda, deceit and manipulation most Americans fall for it hook line and sinker . . . and if one questions the truth you are Un-American or crazy or a conspiracy nut . . . so it won't change until those in power use up the lives and fortunes of most Americans and leave a shell of a once proud people who thought they were doing the right thing . . .

 

[JRBids]

Is it really a shock to you that General Clark says wars are planned (and things don't always go according to plan)? You don't think they are?

The shock to me is saying it into a microphone.

 

[George B]

The shock to me is saying it into a microphone.

General Clark was not the first one to do so . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Hondurasright for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Content from external source

Smedley Darlington Butler[1]​ (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940) was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps (the highest rank authorized at that time), an outspoken critic of U.S. military adventurism, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. During his 34-year career as a Marine, he participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, in Central America and the Caribbean during the Banana Wars, and France in World War I.
By the end of his career, he had received 16 medals, five for heroism. He is one of 19 men to twice receive the Medal of Honor, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal and the Medal of Honor, and the only marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions. In his 1935 book War is a Racket, he described the workings of the military-industrial complex and, after retiring from service, became a popular speaker at meetings organized by veterans, pacifists and church groups in the 1930s.[citation needed]​

Content from external source

 

[xenon]

Wesley K Clark ought to know all about these wars.

Because he commanded "Operation Allied Force" in the Kosovo War- the 78 day bombing and subsequent invasion of a sovereign country, without UN approval.

The Kosovo War was the First PNAC War.

Proof: http://newamericancentury.org/balkans.htm

Notice how silent Wesley has been since he made that statement? It's because a Democrat [...] is doing the bombing and drone killing. He's got no problem at all with that.

DELETED BY MOD . . .

When quoting this "general" everyone should remember that he almost started WW3 because he was mad at the Russians.

One of Clark's most debated decisions during his SACEUR command was his attempted operation to attack Russian troops at Pristina International Airport immediately after the end of the Kosovo War. A joint NATO–Russia peacekeeping operation was supposed to police Kosovo. Russia wanted their peacekeeping force to operate independent of NATO, but NATO refused. British forces were supposed to occupy Pristina International Airport, but a contingent of Russian troops arrived before they did and took control of the airport. Clark called then-Secretary General of NATO Javier Solana, who told him "you have transfer of authority" in the area. General Clark then issued an order for the NATO troops to attack and "overpower" the armed Russian troops, but Captain James Blount leading the British troops questioned this order[81] and was supported in this decision by General Mike Jackson, the British commander of the Kosovo Force.

Jackson refused to sanction the attack, reportedly saying "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you."[82][83] Jackson has said he refused to take action because he did not believe it was worth the risk of a military confrontation with the Russians, instead insisting that troops encircle the airfield. After two days of standoff and negotiations, NATO agreed to an independent Russian peacekeeping force, and Russia relinquished control of the airport. The refusal was criticized by some senior U.S. military personnel, with American general Hugh Shelton calling Jackson's refusal "troubling". During hearings in the United States Senate, Senator John Warner suggested that the refusal might have been illegal, and that if it was legal rules potentially should be changed.[84] British Chief of the Defence Staff Charles Guthrie agreed with Jackson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark#Pristina_International_Airport_incident

​

Milosovec is dead, Embassy's were bombed, marketplaces were clusterbombed, civilians were killed

PHOTO DELETED BY MOD

a victim of the Nis Clusterbombing

​

and no evidence of "genocide" was ever found in Serbia, either by the FBI or UN investigators, but the base the US built in Kosovo- Camp Bondsteel - lives. And it has a particular reputation

Camp Bondsteel
​

Wesley K Clark is part of the problem, not the solution.

The Real Reason for these wars won't ever be told by the likes of Wesley K Clark. But the secret has been out, it's just a matter of time before more people learn the truth

Backing up Globalization with Military Might
http://www.globalissues.org/article/448/backing-up-globalization-with-military-might

Americans might want to keep in mind the fact that ignorance isn't much of an excuse.

 

[SR1419]

Interesting speech.

Some things to consider- he was running for office at the time and thus his words are that of a politician...always suspect. His "quote" is actually somebody else's quote- so a second hand quote from a politician with vested interest in hyperbole and divisive rhetoric.

Of course, he is not without his own issues either...

This seems like a bewildering career decision from a man who finished first in his West Point class and became a Rhodes scholar. But ever since retiring, Clark’s made a second career out of pimping his first. He shilled for dubious tech products before turning himself into a product — that is, attempting to become president of the United States within three years of getting fired from his job running NATO’s Kosovo war. Along the way, he inadvertently bolstered the case of his many, many military critics, who considered him a clown. Oh, and according to one of his subordinates, he came close to starting World War III.

Content from external source

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/08/wes-clark/

and more recently:

Retired U.S. Army General and former presidential contender Wesley K. Clark was the chairman and public face of a Wall Street investment firm that rode a wave of interest in Chinese stock, and then plunged on reports that much of the profit was hype and many of the companies were outright frauds.

Content from external source

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/china...aces-questions/story?id=18292965#.UZkynsqv-1x

Don't even mention the oil the Chinese were buying there

I agree. Why mention it when Libya was only China's 7th largest oil source in Africa and from which approximately 3% of their total oil imports came from

 

[lee h oswald]

While I cannot deny it is easy to connect dots and make these claims . . .
like most countries and pseudo-empires the average American like the average British subject 200 years ago have no idea of the grand plan nor do they understand their complicity in the process . . . there is so much propaganda, deceit and manipulation most Americans fall for it hook line and sinker . . . and if one questions the truth you are Un-American or crazy or a conspiracy nut . . . so it won't change until those in power use up the lives and fortunes of most Americans and leave a shell of a once proud people who thought they were doing the right thing . . .

There are and have been a great many fine USAmericans. The UK is still just as gullible (never mind the 200 years! Lol!), so no preferences here. I wouldn't want anyone to think that when I speak of US or UK in this context that I'm speaking about the whole - I'm speaking of the power structures that have hi-jacked what little 'democracy' there ever was; and continue to. That 'Un-American' thing really gets my goat. It seems to me to be the opposite.

But don't be down-hearted, G; the machine is already beginning to seize up - resource wars and the end of growth will happen - they are happening. Large scale resource wars won't be maintainable when the resources are running right down, and the US empire crumbles from within, as they all do - a process already under way. It's coming to the end of that blip in earth's history that saw the human industrial age. Otherwise known as Interesting Times.

We're too greedy and stupid to realize we're all on this boat together, so it'll likely continue to the bitter end - and then, if not before, Mam Gaia's gonna do it the planetary way, also already gearing up - and she'll kick hom sap back to the mesolithic - if we're lucky. Maybe we'll make a better fist of it second time round.
We're not going to do anything sufficient to help ourselves; but no need to stress; no need to panic; worry; fret - just sit back and experience the Gaian method....

Cheers

 

[lee h oswald]

The shock to me is saying it into a microphone.

Yeah. Ex-military top brass usually play for the home team. Keep schtum about such things. Establishment values and a big fat pay-off to sit on the board of .....name your own military contractor/affliated business. They still have an ego, though. Maybe Clarky's got an axe to grind?

 

[lee h oswald]

I agree. Why mention it when Libya was only China's 7th largest oil source in Africa and from which approximately 3% of their total oil imports came from

So how many workers, what degree of supply and where in the league table of suppliers would you say it becomes worth mentioning? Obviously it's above 30,000 workers, above 7th largest supplier and above 3% total supply from Africa.

Or: If the US was forced to evacuate 30,000 workers from another country, give up 3% of its overall oil supply from their 7th largest supplier because of Chinese military action against the incumbent govt? - do you think that would be worth a mention?

 

[George B]

Yeah. Ex-military top brass usually play for the home team. Keep schtum about such things. Establishment values and a big fat pay-off to sit on the board of .....name your own military contractor/affliated business. They still have an ego, though. Maybe Clarky's got an axe to grind?

Yes, it is hard to determine Clark's motivation for loose lips . . . partly ego, partly honesty, partly political, maybe a bit of pathology . . . however, in many ways believable . . . especially to us conspiracy wamps . . .

 

[SR1419]

Yes, it is hard to determine Clark's motivation for loose lips . . . partly ego, partly honesty, partly political, maybe a bit of pathology . . . however, in many ways believable . . . especially to us conspiracy wamps . . .

Why is it hard? He was running for President as a Democrat when he made that speech- motivation seems quite clear- fear mongering to pander for votes.

 

[George B]

Why is it hard? He was running for President as a Democrat when he made that speech- motivation seems quite clear.

So you think there was no truth in his statements . . . all politically motivated?

 

[Pete Tar]

and no evidence of "genocide" was ever found in Serbia, either by the FBI or UN investigators, ...

um... What the hell man?

The term Bosnian Genocide refers to either genocide at Srebrenica and Žepa[4]​ committed by Bosnian Serb forces in 1995 or the ethnic cleansing campaign that took place during the 1992–1995 Bosnian War.[5]​

The events in Srebrenica in 1995 included the killing of more than 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys, as well as the mass expulsion of another 25,000–30,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians, in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, committed by units of the Army of the Republika Srpska (VRS) under the command of General Ratko Mladić.[6]​[7]​
The ethnic cleansing campaign that took place throughout areas controlled by the VRS targeted Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats. The ethnic cleansing campaign included unlawful confinement, murder, rape, sexual assault, torture, beating, robbery and inhumane treatment of civilians; the targeting of political leaders, intellectuals and professionals; the unlawful deportation and transfer of civilians; the unlawful shelling of civilians; the unlawful appropriation and plunder of real and personal property; the destruction of homes and businesses; and the destruction of places of worship.[8]​

...
However, in line with a majority of legal scholars, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ) have ruled that, in order for actions to be deemed genocide, there must be physical or biological destruction of a protected group and a specific intent to commit such destruction. To date, only the Srebrenica massacre has been found to be a genocide by the ICTY, a finding upheld by the ICJ.[12]​
...
The Court's opinion that genocide did not take place across the entire occupied territory of Bosnia-Herzegovina and its finding that Serbia was not directly involved in the Srebrenica genocide have been strongly criticized.
....

Main article: List of Bosnian genocide prosecutions
About 30 people have been indicted for participating in genocide or complicity in genocide during the early 1990s in Bosnia.

...The International Court of Justice confirmed the ICTY judgment that the Srebrenica massacre was genocide:

The Court concludes that the acts committed at Srebrenica falling within Article II (a) and (b) of the Convention were committed with the specific intent to destroy in part the group of the Muslims of Bosnia and Herzegovina as such; and accordingly that these were acts of genocide, committed by members of the VRS in and around Srebrenica from about 13 July 1995.[39]​
​

It cleared Republic of Serbia of direct involvement in genocide during the Bosnian war, but ruled that Belgrade did breach international law by failing to prevent the 1995 Srebrenica genocide.[40]​
...


Incomplete list of massacres:

• Suva Reka massacre — 48 Albanian civilians victims, among them many children.[42]​
• Račak massacre — 45 Albanians villagers were murdered by Serb forces.[43]​
• Podujevo massacre - 19 Albanian civilians, including women, children and the elderly, killed by Serb paramilitary.[44]​
• Massacre at Velika Kruša — according to the Court, Serbian special police units murdered 42 persons.[45]​ There is also allegetions of females mass raped.[46]​
• Izbica massacre — Serbian forces killed about 120 Albanian civilians.[47]​
• Drenica massacre — there were 29 identified corpses of massacre, committed by Serbian law enforcement forces.[48]​
• Gornje Obrinje massacre - 18 bodies were found,[49]​ but more people slaughtered.[50]​
• Cuska massacre — 41 known victims.[51]​
• Bela Crkva massacre — 62 known victims[52]​
• Orahovac massacre — from 50 to more than 200 ethnic Albanian civilians victims[53]​
• Dubrava Prison massacre — Serbian prison guards killed more than 70 Albanian prisoners.[54]​
• Ćuška massacre near Peć on May 14, 1999 attributed to the Šakali

According to Croatian Association of Prisoners in Serbian Concentration Camps, a total of 8,000 Croatian civilians and Prisoners of war (a large number after the fall of Vukovar) went through Serb prison camps such as Sremska Mitrovica camp, Stajićevo camp, Niš camp and many others where many were heavily abused and tortured. A total of 300 people never returned from them.[35]​ A total of 4570 camp inmates have started legal action against former Serbia and Montenegro (now Serbia) for torture and abuse in the camps.[36]

​The Serbian police and the Yugoslav Army were in spring 1999 "in an organized manner, with significant use of state resources" conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians in order to expel them from Kosovo and thus maintain political control of Belgrade over the province.[29]​
According to the legally binding verdict of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, Federal Army and Serbian police after the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia 24 March 1999, systematically attacked villages with Albanian population, abused, robbed and killed civilians, ordering them to go to Albania or Montenegro, burning their houses and destroying by their property.[41]​ Within the campaign of violence, Albanians were mass expelled from their homes, murdered, sexually assaulted, and their religious buildings destroyed. Serbian forces committed numerous war crimes during the implementation of "joint criminal enterprise" whose aim was to "through the use of violence and terror, force a significant number of Kosovo Albanians to leave their homes, across the border, the state government to retain control over Kosovo."[29]​ Ethnic cleansing of the Albanian population is performed by the following model: first the army surrounded a place, then followed the shelling, then the police entered the village, and often with them and the army, and then crimes occurs (murders, rapes, beatings, expulsions...).[41]​

Content from external source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_war_crimes_in_the_Yugoslav_Wars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide


​

 

[lee h oswald]

General Clark was not the first one to do so . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Hondurasright for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Content from external source

Smedley Darlington Butler[1]​ (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940) was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps (the highest rank authorized at that time), an outspoken critic of U.S. military adventurism, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. During his 34-year career as a Marine, he participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, in Central America and the Caribbean during the Banana Wars, and France in World War I.
By the end of his career, he had received 16 medals, five for heroism. He is one of 19 men to twice receive the Medal of Honor, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal and the Medal of Honor, and the only marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions. In his 1935 book War is a Racket, he described the workings of the military-industrial complex and, after retiring from service, became a popular speaker at meetings organized by veterans, pacifists and church groups in the 1930s.[citation needed]​

Content from external source

Butler was also the one who blew the whistle to Congress on the JPMorgan and associates plot for a fascist coup against Roosevelt in 1934. They made the mistake of approaching Butler to be the leader of the coup and a 500,000 man march on Washington. Good old Smedley saw the light eventually, G. As we all must!

Cheers

 

[SR1419]

So you think there was no truth in his statements . . . all politically motivated?

The 2 (truth and political motivation) are not mutually exclusive.

But politicians and their "truthiness" are highly suspect in my opinion- especially when running for office....and Clark's reputation is not without issues such that his words- in context- should not be accepted as "truth" per se

Again- the quote in question is actually his re-telling of another person's words...further down the "truth" chain.

Indeed, considering the US already invaded Iraq at the time- the accuracy of the quote is not without its problems.

 

[George B]

The 2 (truth and political motivation) are not mutually exclusive.

But politicians and their "truthiness" are highly suspect in my opinion- especially when running for office....and Clark's reputation is not without issues such that his words- in context- should not be accepted as "truth" per se

Again- the quote in question is actually his re-telling of another person's words...further down the "truth" chain.

Indeed, considering the US already invaded Iraq at the time- the accuracy of the quote is not without its problems.

I cannot argue your logic . . . however, I greatly distrust the motivations of all powerful groups . . . absolute power corrupts absolutely . . . as they say . . .

 

[lee h oswald]

Yes, it is hard to determine Clark's motivation for loose lips . . . partly ego, partly honesty, partly political, maybe a bit of pathology . . . however, in many ways believable . . . especially to us conspiracy wamps . . .

Smells like the usual mix of truth and lies to me, G. There's a lot of it about.

Let's see where ole Wes ends up 'earning' his crust. Then we'll know. Think we do already, though.

 

[Titus Dafoe]

Is it really a shock to you that General Clark says wars are planned (and things don't always go according to plan)? You don't think they are?

If you understand anything about geo-politics and the imperialism of the USukisnato criminal syndicate - then you can see what's going on. Can't you? The US wants domination - nothing less - and controlling resources is vital to achieving that aim; and through that, also controlling the destiny of your rivals.

Iraq? Job done? Only about 1 million dead (since the invasion in 2003 - and about another million due to prior 'sanctions'); 4 million displaced; an epidemic of mental illness; an epidemic of birth defects due to poisoned environment (uranium and other heavy metals); an epidemic of cancers due to the same; nearly one million widows; 2 million directly physically affected by weaponry. A real success. And it continues. They got operation 'Enduring Freedom', but we got a fair bit of the oil, though.

Libya - a country without a central bank system linked in to the rest, ie. independent - and Gaddaffi was doing all kind of neat things, launching a Telecoms satellite and all - that would rob US companies of their african telecoms business, just for one. Don't even mention the oil the Chinese were buying there, and the 30,000 Chinese workers forced out by the er, 'no-fly-zone' aka - USuk turkey shoot. He's out the way now, old Muammar, after being sodomized and strung up - and how Hillary laughed, remember? Freedom and democracy - that's what it's all about. And civilization, mustn't forget that.

Now Syria - arming jihadists to do the dirty work - they have to do Syria and Lebanon (Hezbollah) in order to pave the way for Iran - another independent country - and lots of oil too - bonus! The Iranians are currently having their economy ruined by specious 'sanctions' relating to US bullshit about their nuclear situation. A lot of Iranians are hungry right now. It's called 'strategy'.

As for Somalia and Sudan - we'll see. But I'm sure it's part of the plan. What'll also be part of the plan will be the question: At what point do China and/or Russia (+ Brazil, India and South Africa) say - that's it? Do you think they've planned for it?

I see this video posted many times in the comments of news sites which tow the CT line. Whilst Iraq and Afghanistan may be true, this plan came to light during the Bush years. Since then, Obama happened and also the Arab Spring. America was ill prepared and caught off guard by the revolts in the Middle East and were out of their depth. They have struggled to keep hold of whats going on. They have managed to get Egypt and Tunisia in their pocket but not without difficulty for Libya. As for Syria, America had no instigative hand in the revolt and have kept their distance despite opposing state television claiming that they have been arming the jihadi's. The term Jihadi is often used when describing the majority of rebels when that is not the case. There is talk of another conflict starting as soon as Assad is gone between the Islamists and the secular FSA. America's influence in Syria is small and are not supplying weapons to the Islamists. Saudi Arabia no doubt.

http://www.enduringamerica.com/home...rge-in-foreign-weapons-for-the-insurgent.html

http://www.enduringamerica.com/home...arms-for-insurgents-the-case-of-the-croa.html

http://brown-moses.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/foreign-smuggled-weapons-spread.html

So Syria is off the cards, I cannot see a war against Lebanon in the near future. They have sealed their fate with the FSA and Iran have been running their economy into the ground for years and by giving a lot of public money away to Hezbollah which has stirred up public opinion. Iran is not about invasion but rather regime change. After the fraudulent election and the after mass which followed, America has kept it distance rather trying diplomatic methods whereas Bush would have gone in by now plus also popular former president Hashemi Rafsanjani is running for presidency again a lot of people see him being able to close the hostility between the two countries.

But in a short nutshell like that above, Wesley Clarke's theory not happen, Bush is out of office and the Arab Spring happened. Connecting the dots is easy to do especially among CT's but if they are after world domination its not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe Wesley should rewrite his plan especially now that he is on reality tv.

 

[TEEJ]

um... What the hell man?
The Serbian police and the Yugoslav Army were in spring 1999 "in an organized manner, with significant use of state resources" conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians

Some of those mass graves relating to the Kosovo conflcit were found in Serbia itself. The largest mass grave was found in a Police training ground near Belgrade containing over 700 bodies.


http://www.ic-mp.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/icmp-fsd-16-04-2-doc.pdf


Some 74 bodies were recovered in a mass grave in Petrovo Selo, Serbia. 84 were recovered from Perućac lake, Serbia.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1414735.stm

Serbian MUP general Vlastimir Djordjevic admitted he was responsible for burying the bodies of Kosovo Albanians in Batajnica. Djordjevic also admitted he knew the bodies had been found in the Perucac lake..... As Djordjevic said, ‘I admit I was involved in the effort to bury the bodies in Batajnica and I am sorry’. Djordjevic added, ‘I admit that I knew’ that some of the bodies had been hidden in the Perucac lake. The bodies of 744 Albanian civilians, including women and children, were exhumed in Batajnica; 84 bodies were discovered in the Perucac lake.

http://www.sense-agency.com/icty.29.html?news_id=14449

 

[lee h oswald]

um... What the hell man?

The term Bosnian Genocide refers to either genocide at Srebrenica and Žepa[4]​ committed by Bosnian Serb forces in 1995 or the ethnic cleansing campaign that took place during the 1992–1995 Bosnian War.[5]​

The events in Srebrenica in 1995 included the killing of more than 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys, as well as the mass expulsion of another 25,000–30,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians, in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, committed by units of the Army of the Republika Srpska (VRS) under the command of General Ratko Mladić.[6]​[7]​
The ethnic cleansing campaign that took place throughout areas controlled by the VRS targeted Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats. The ethnic cleansing campaign included unlawful confinement, murder, rape, sexual assault, torture, beating, robbery and inhumane treatment of civilians; the targeting of political leaders, intellectuals and professionals; the unlawful deportation and transfer of civilians; the unlawful shelling of civilians; the unlawful appropriation and plunder of real and personal property; the destruction of homes and businesses; and the destruction of places of worship.[8]​

...
However, in line with a majority of legal scholars, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ) have ruled that, in order for actions to be deemed genocide, there must be physical or biological destruction of a protected group and a specific intent to commit such destruction. To date, only the Srebrenica massacre has been found to be a genocide by the ICTY, a finding upheld by the ICJ.[12]​
...
The Court's opinion that genocide did not take place across the entire occupied territory of Bosnia-Herzegovina and its finding that Serbia was not directly involved in the Srebrenica genocide have been strongly criticized.
....

Main article: List of Bosnian genocide prosecutions
About 30 people have been indicted for participating in genocide or complicity in genocide during the early 1990s in Bosnia.

...The International Court of Justice confirmed the ICTY judgment that the Srebrenica massacre was genocide:

The Court concludes that the acts committed at Srebrenica falling within Article II (a) and (b) of the Convention were committed with the specific intent to destroy in part the group of the Muslims of Bosnia and Herzegovina as such; and accordingly that these were acts of genocide, committed by members of the VRS in and around Srebrenica from about 13 July 1995.[39]​
​

It cleared Republic of Serbia of direct involvement in genocide during the Bosnian war, but ruled that Belgrade did breach international law by failing to prevent the 1995 Srebrenica genocide.[40]​
...


Incomplete list of massacres:

• Suva Reka massacre — 48 Albanian civilians victims, among them many children.[42]​
• Račak massacre — 45 Albanians villagers were murdered by Serb forces.[43]​
• Podujevo massacre - 19 Albanian civilians, including women, children and the elderly, killed by Serb paramilitary.[44]​
• Massacre at Velika Kruša — according to the Court, Serbian special police units murdered 42 persons.[45]​ There is also allegetions of females mass raped.[46]​
• Izbica massacre — Serbian forces killed about 120 Albanian civilians.[47]​
• Drenica massacre — there were 29 identified corpses of massacre, committed by Serbian law enforcement forces.[48]​
• Gornje Obrinje massacre - 18 bodies were found,[49]​ but more people slaughtered.[50]​
• Cuska massacre — 41 known victims.[51]​
• Bela Crkva massacre — 62 known victims[52]​
• Orahovac massacre — from 50 to more than 200 ethnic Albanian civilians victims[53]​
• Dubrava Prison massacre — Serbian prison guards killed more than 70 Albanian prisoners.[54]​
• Ćuška massacre near Peć on May 14, 1999 attributed to the Šakali

According to Croatian Association of Prisoners in Serbian Concentration Camps, a total of 8,000 Croatian civilians and Prisoners of war (a large number after the fall of Vukovar) went through Serb prison camps such as Sremska Mitrovica camp, Stajićevo camp, Niš camp and many others where many were heavily abused and tortured. A total of 300 people never returned from them.[35]​ A total of 4570 camp inmates have started legal action against former Serbia and Montenegro (now Serbia) for torture and abuse in the camps.[36]

​The Serbian police and the Yugoslav Army were in spring 1999 "in an organized manner, with significant use of state resources" conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians in order to expel them from Kosovo and thus maintain political control of Belgrade over the province.[29]​
According to the legally binding verdict of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, Federal Army and Serbian police after the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia 24 March 1999, systematically attacked villages with Albanian population, abused, robbed and killed civilians, ordering them to go to Albania or Montenegro, burning their houses and destroying by their property.[41]​ Within the campaign of violence, Albanians were mass expelled from their homes, murdered, sexually assaulted, and their religious buildings destroyed. Serbian forces committed numerous war crimes during the implementation of "joint criminal enterprise" whose aim was to "through the use of violence and terror, force a significant number of Kosovo Albanians to leave their homes, across the border, the state government to retain control over Kosovo."[29]​ Ethnic cleansing of the Albanian population is performed by the following model: first the army surrounded a place, then followed the shelling, then the police entered the village, and often with them and the army, and then crimes occurs (murders, rapes, beatings, expulsions...).[41]​

Content from external source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_war_crimes_in_the_Yugoslav_Wars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide


​

There are much better, more reliable sources than wikipedia.

There was no more a genocide by the Serbs in Bosnia than there was by the Croatians. Just so happens that giving it that name enabled (through the ever compliant lamestream western media) NATO to step up its attack on Serbia - a Russian ally.

The 'ethnic cleansing' of 250,000 Serbs in the Krajina region of Croatia took place just one month after the Srebenica massacre. But no calls of 'genocide' there. Serbia was the 'official enemy'. The atrocities listed on wiki do not amount to genocide, they amount to the usual crimes that take place in any war, by all sides. It's another false meme created to manipulate opinion against the Serbs and for further realpolitikally motivated geo-political 'intervention'.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11196-006-9031-z
[h=2]Abstract[/h] The Srebrenica massacre has taken on both symbolic and mythical properties, all in the service of political agendas. The symbol is of Serb evil, manifested in an alleged cold-blooded and unprovoked massacre of innocents reminiscent of Nazi behavior during World War II. The myth is that 8000 Bosnian Muslim “men and boys” were executed in the vicinity of Srebrenica in July 1995, and that any executions there were unprovoked and carried out in accord with a genocidal plan. Both facts and language have had to be aggressively massaged to support these claims. The political agendas served by the massacre claims were those of the Bosnian Muslims, striving to get NATO to enter the Bosnian struggle more actively, the Croats, who needed a demonization of Serbs to carry out their own ethnic cleansing plans (most notably, removing 250,000 Serbs from Croatian Krajina in the very next month, August 1995), and the Clinton administration, under attack for a failure to intervene more actively on behalf of the Croats and Muslims and searching for an excuse to do so.

This paper is partly drawn from and cites chapters in a forthcoming book on the Srebrenica massacre, Srebrenica: The Politics of War Crimes, written by George Bogdanich, Tim Fenton, Philip Hammond, Edward S. Herman, Michael Mandel, Jonathan Rooper, and George Szamuely. This book is referred to in the notes below as Politics of War Crimes.

Content from external source

And as far as the International Court goes? When they start applying the same principles to the really serious war criminals, like Blair, Bush, Cheney, Obama etc etc etc, then I'll take notice. Until then - it's a bad joke. Whatever you do, don't mention Guantanamo - or all the other kidnap and torture destinations of the US Gulag archipelago.

 

[lee h oswald]

I see this video posted many times in the comments of news sites which tow the CT line. Whilst Iraq and Afghanistan may be true, this plan came to light during the Bush years. Since then, Obama happened and also the Arab Spring. America was ill prepared and caught off guard by the revolts in the Middle East and were out of their depth. They have struggled to keep hold of whats going on. They have managed to get Egypt and Tunisia in their pocket but not without difficulty for Libya. As for Syria, America had no instigative hand in the revolt and have kept their distance despite opposing state television claiming that they have been arming the jihadi's. The term Jihadi is often used when describing the majority of rebels when that is not the case. There is talk of another conflict starting as soon as Assad is gone between the Islamists and the secular FSA. America's influence in Syria is small and are not supplying weapons to the Islamists. Saudi Arabia no doubt. http://www.enduringamerica.com/home...rge-in-foreign-weapons-for-the-insurgent.html http://www.enduringamerica.com/home...arms-for-insurgents-the-case-of-the-croa.html http://brown-moses.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/foreign-smuggled-weapons-spread.html So Syria is off the cards, I cannot see a war against Lebanon in the near future. They have sealed their fate with the FSA and Iran have been running their economy into the ground for years and by giving a lot of public money away to Hezbollah which has stirred up public opinion. Iran is not about invasion but rather regime change. After the fraudulent election and the after mass which followed, America has kept it distance rather trying diplomatic methods whereas Bush would have gone in by now plus also popular former president Hashemi Rafsanjani is running for presidency again a lot of people see him being able to close the hostility between the two countries. But in a short nutshell like that above, Wesley Clarke's theory not happen, Bush is out of office and the Arab Spring happened. Connecting the dots is easy to do especially among CT's but if they are after world domination its not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe Wesley should rewrite his plan especially now that he is on reality tv.

'Whilst Iraq and Afghanistan may be true...' May be? I think you're just interested in using the meaning-free boo phrase 'CT' or 'conspiracy theorist' as much as you can. And without a grasp of the real world situation. Iran's 'fraudulent election'? Lol! Show me an election in the UK since 1931 that hasn't been fraudulent. And they've ruined their economy handing out money to Hezbollah? Lol! 'Regime change', eh? That old chestnut. Is that alright? I don't know where you're getting your 'facts', but it sounds like it could be The FCO - and/or The Daily Mail.

 

[BombDr]

'Whilst Iraq and Afghanistan may be true...' May be? I think you're just interested in using the meaning-free boo phrase 'CT' or 'conspiracy theorist' as much as you can. And without a grasp of the real world situation. Iran's 'fraudulent election'? Lol! Show me an election in the UK since 1931 that hasn't been fraudulent. And they've ruined their economy handing out money to Hezbollah? Lol! 'Regime change', eh? That old chestnut. Is that alright? I don't know where you're getting your 'facts', but it sounds like it could be The FCO - and/or The Daily Mail.

Can you please demonstrate your claim that Uk elections are fraudulent?

 

[lee h oswald]

Can you please demonstrate your claim that Uk elections are fraudulent?

Sure. But don't expect me to do all the work. What do you know of the 1931 election? National Government? Baldwin? Election 1935? Ten Year rule? What did it mean for 'democracy'? Which books/authors have you read?

Here's a few links to books etc - but then you need to look beneath the surface - http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...780,d.bGE&fp=ba64e33975863f3&biw=1024&bih=616


So you can find the answer to your own question in reading history - and if you recall, before that, I asked to be shown a UK election since 1931 which wasn't fraudulent. It's not like there wasn't a clue.

 

[BombDr]

Sure. But don't expect me to do all the work. What do you know of the 1931 election? National Government? Baldwin? Election 1935? Ten Year rule? What did it mean for 'democracy'? Which books/authors have you read?

Here's a few links to books etc - but then you need to look beneath the surface - http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...780,d.bGE&fp=ba64e33975863f3&biw=1024&bih=616


So you can find the answer to your own question in reading history - and if you recall, before that, I asked to be shown a UK election since 1931 which wasn't fraudulent. It's not like there wasn't a clue.

Well if you are asking me to prove a negative, I guess I can't also prove that there was not an election since 1931 in which all the candidates were not spoken to by Angels. But seeing as I have not heard anyone in opposition complain about corrupt elections in the UK ever, Ill take your assertion as slightly misplaced.

 

[lee h oswald]

Well if you are asking me to prove a negative, I guess I can't also prove that there was not an election since 1931 in which all the candidates were not spoken to by Angels. But seeing as I have not heard anyone in opposition complain about corrupt elections in the UK ever, Ill take your assertion as slightly misplaced.

I'm asking you to prove a negative? Where? Rhetorical questions don't require answers - especially ones with no question mark following them. Even more especially ones that weren't addressed to you in the first place.
And the rhetorical question was a request to show an election, since 1931, in the UK that wasn't 'fraudulent' - where you say 'corrupt'. That's not 'proving a negative' - showing an election in the UK since 1931 that is fair and free and giving your reasons why. That would be a positive. But yes, 'seeing as you have not heard anyone in opposition complain'...then it - whatever it is - can't be true, can it? I presume you mean Her Majesty's Opposition? (Note the proper noun status).

Apparently you know nothing of the context, and can't be bothered to learn for yourself. A genuinely interested person might make an effort to familiarise themselves with the facts - 1931.

'Ill take your assertion as slightly misplaced' - Take it how you want it, but how would you know? (no need to answer - it's rhetorical)

BombDr, eh? Do you specialise in oxymorons?

 

[lotek]

and Gaddaffi was doing all kind of neat things

Ahahaha i love reading that. Like clockwork someone will point out these things, or hey watch this youtube video of him and his people... buy into propaganda often? flagrant, oozing, criminal profit driven propaganda..? Guy was a thug. Glorify from your first world computer chair all you want.

 

[lee h oswald]

Ahahaha i love reading that. Like clockwork someone will point out these things, or hey watch this youtube video of him and his people... buy into propaganda often? flagrant, oozing, criminal profit driven propaganda..? Guy was a thug. Glorify from your first world computer chair all you want.

Didn't you ever learn about context?

Thug, eh? Small beer compared to USukisnato criminal syndicate. Not so long ago, presumably he was your kind of thug when the US was sending kidnapped people to Libya for a spot of torture? Yes?

 

[BombDr]

I'm asking you to prove a negative? Where? Rhetorical questions don't require answers - especially ones with no question mark following them. Even more especially ones that weren't addressed to you in the first place.
And the rhetorical question was a request to show an election, since 1931, in the UK that wasn't 'fraudulent' - where you say 'corrupt'. That's not 'proving a negative' - showing an election in the UK since 1931 that is fair and free and giving your reasons why. That would be a positive. But yes, 'seeing as you have not heard anyone in opposition complain'...then it - whatever it is - can't be true, can it? I presume you mean Her Majesty's Opposition? (Note the proper noun status).

Apparently you know nothing of the context, and can't be bothered to learn for yourself. A genuinely interested person might make an effort to familiarise themselves with the facts - 1931.

'Ill take your assertion as slightly misplaced' - Take it how you want it, but how would you know? (no need to answer - it's rhetorical)

BombDr, eh? Do you specialise in oxymorons?

I am an EOD Operator, which are known as Bomb-Doctors. Slang is not always grammatically correct.

 

[Lost World]

Why is it so unbelievable that the US would plan a large scale military campaign up front? The dynamics of the wars and of economics could mean the timelines and priorities change over time, but a simliar schedule was clearly laid out in the PNAC document, which listed most of those countries. It would be impossible to say with any certainty that a specific number of countries could be dealt with within a specific time frame, but the concept and principle of multiple successive conflicts is there, published for all to see.

Not much of a conspiracy theory really.

 

[George B]

Why is it so unbelievable that the US would plan a large scale military campaign up front? The dynamics of the wars and of economics could mean the timelines and priorities change over time, but a simliar schedule was clearly laid out in the PNAC document, which listed most of those countries. It would be impossible to say with any certainty that a specific number of countries could be dealt with within a specific time frame, but the concept and principle of multiple successive conflicts is there, published for all to see.

Not much of a conspiracy theory really.

Conspiracy or a logical progression of political, economic and military realities?

 

[Lost World]

Conspiracy or a logical progression of political, economic and military realities?

Well, I would say that there was an element of conspiracy in it, in that a group of people got together and 'conspired' to do it. It may not have been splashed across the NY Times front page, but then I doubt the complexities of any military operation would be published with such a fanfare ahead of them being executed. That said, the plans were available to download and read for yourself back in 2000 - 2001. Of course the PNAC was just a neo-con think tank, and their proposal was just that, a proposal. It wasn't 'policy' So, you could argue that what happened in the years after was just a coincidence. You could also argue that once Bush had left office the continuation of the program with Libya, and the probable forthcoming intervention in Syria are examples of Obama continuing the agenda. Of course Obama, as a democrat needs to work hard to preserve the illusion of difference between the two parties. Where a republican whitehouse may go in guns blazing and dropping bombs, democrats sneak in the back door paying terrorist groups to bring down regimes from within. The endgame is arguably the same though; change to a relatively western friendly regime (a strategy that has broadly failed in Afghanistan) and to create chaos in the region that justifies a long term western military presence in the area, or at least western contractors, so it can appear that the administration is bringing the boys home after somekind of vague victory.

All ties into 'military and economic realities' as you say. I don't regard any of this as conspiracy theory in the sense that a shadowy cabal of freemasons got round the table, drank virgins blood and plotted to take over the world. It looks to me like a strategy no more sinister than some of the plans that I'm sure were doing the rounds during the cold war.

 

[George B]

Well, I would say that there was an element of conspiracy in it, in that a group of people got together and 'conspired' to do it. It may not have been splashed across the NY Times front page, but then I doubt the complexities of any military operation would be published with such a fanfare ahead of them being executed. That said, the plans were available to download and read for yourself back in 2000 - 2001. Of course the PNAC was just a neo-con think tank, and their proposal was just that, a proposal. It wasn't 'policy' So, you could argue that what happened in the years after was just a coincidence. You could also argue that once Bush had left office the continuation of the program with Libya, and the probable forthcoming intervention in Syria are examples of Obama continuing the agenda. Of course Obama, as a democrat needs to work hard to preserve the illusion of difference between the two parties. Where a republican whitehouse may go in guns blazing and dropping bombs, democrats sneak in the back door paying terrorist groups to bring down regimes from within. The endgame is arguably the same though; change to a relatively western friendly regime (a strategy that has broadly failed in Afghanistan) and to create chaos in the region that justifies a long term western military presence in the area, or at least western contractors, so it can appear that the administration is bringing the boys home after somekind of vague victory.

All ties into 'military and economic realities' as you say. I don't regard any of this as conspiracy theory in the sense that a shadowy cabal of freemasons got round the table, drank virgins blood and plotted to take over the world. It looks to me like a strategy no more sinister than some of the plans that I'm sure were doing the rounds during the cold war.

Well stated. . . .

 

[Grieves]

On the subject of Syria, if anyone had any illusions about it stopping there...

But with the British, French and American governments considering providing arms to the Syrian opposition on a scale not yet seen in the civil war, the U.S. official’s allegation was a tacit acknowledgment that the two-year-old Syrian conflict has become a regional war and a de facto U.S. proxy fight with Iran.

How long till we can come right out and call it world war 3? 5 more years of continuous conflict, maybe?

 

[Lost World]

On the subject of Syria, if anyone had any illusions about it stopping there...


How long till we can come right out and call it world war 3? 5 more years of continuous conflict, maybe?

The risk of serious escalation is real, although not inevitable in my opinion. The ultimate prize may well be Iran here. It appears their biggest ally in the region is currently being dealt with through various, and quite dubious means. I'm no fan of Assad, but the complex and radical make up of some of the opposition could spell trouble for the west, as did the establishment of Al Queada on the back of the Soviet/Afghan war.

I guess a world war would be defined by a number of simultaneous multi-regional conflicts, with some political and ideological links, but of course we can call these things what we like. Some of the more alarmist commentators say it has already begun. I understand their reasoning, although don't really share the view. Yet. The one thing that bothers me the most is not Iran getting the bomb, but the possibility of a proxy war with Russia getting out of control. Russia routinely supplies Assad with weapons. At the start of this the idea of the west supplying weapons to the rebels was completely dismissed, but now the idea is gathering some momentum, and I don't doubt will lead to the arming of Islamic militants to do the wests bidding. Bearing in mind the alliance between Russia and Syria and Iran, for how long will Moscow sit back and watch this play out, before Putin decides enough is enough. Israel is another wild card in this. If they choose to attack Iran, that could be sufficient motivation for Russia to intervene.

 

[Grieves]

The risk of serious escalation is real, although not inevitable in my opinion.

I'm afraid I'm a bit more cynical than you Lost, as not only am I convinced open conflict with Iran is an inevitability, but I believe conflict with Russia is already on the table. The rhetoric coming out of American media and especially politicians in regard to Russia is frighteningly hostile. I think it was Hillary Clinton herself who suggested Russia and China were going to 'pay' for their position on Syria.

 

[Lost World]

I'm afraid I'm a bit more cynical than you Lost, as not only am I convinced open conflict with Iran is an inevitability, but I believe conflict with Russia is already on the table. The rhetoric coming out of American media and especially politicians in regard to Russia is frighteningly hostile. I think it was Hillary Clinton herself who suggested Russia and China were going to 'pay' for their position on Syria.

I hope you're wrong!

It's worth bearing in mind though that the rhetoric coming out of the western media and politicians with regard to Russia has always been frighteningly hostile. They are still very much a potential adversary, and the declaration of the end of the cold war was more symbolic than anything else. Russia may have have embraced elements of capitalism and opened its doors to the world, but they still don't trust the west, and still have thousands of nuclear warheads trained on us, and vice versa of course.