Garry Nolan's Claims of Evidence of Shadow Biosphere

yoshy

Senior Member
Garry Nolan has often made claims of having scientifically vetted evidence of UAP, NHI, and so on, with the claims eventually going nowhere. (See here for example of claims regarding Jim's ball.) However, I don't think I've seen this mentioned before: Nolan claimed to have evidence of a shadow biosphere in his interview on YouTube's Event Horizon. Start at 7:42 if it doesn't load there.

Relevant quotes:

Host at 8:05: Do you think we could ever run across it if there was a second abiogenesis on planet Earth?

Nolan: Uh yes and I've actually although I I don't mean to sound conspiratorial or anything there's someone that I'm working with who has at least pictorial evidence of such a thing you know but before I get all excited about it I'm actually buying for the guy uh some instruments that he can use to determine if it's actually real or not I mean the the picture evidence that I've seen is pretty compelling so we'll see I mean because what what whatever it is it isn't standard

Definition from Wikipedia:

External Quote:

A shadow biosphere is a hypothetical microbial biosphere of Earth that would use radically different biochemical and molecular processes from that of currently known life. Although life on Earth is relatively well studied, if a shadow biosphere exists, it may still remain unnoticed because the exploration of the microbial world targets primarily the biochemistry of the macro-organisms.
This would be a very big deal in science because it would be evidence of a second abiogenesis and would give us a look at a totally different type of life with no relation to ourselves. This interview was posted in December 2022, and I cannot find any followup. Nolan seems to have a habit of believing wild claims and then going silent on them.
 
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This would be a very big deal in science because it would be evidence of a second abiogenesis and would give us a look at a totally different type of life with no relation to ourselves. This interview was posted in December 2022, and I cannot find any followup. Nolan seems to have a habit of believing wild claims and then going silent on them.

Interesting. This is one of the claims of the now viral paper we were discussing in these 2 threads:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-pareidolia-is-bias.13498/page-3#post-317435
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...on-the-dark-side-of-the-moon-or-alaska.13504/

The aliens are here around us or hiding in caves or oceans or are the result of an alternate evolution of intelligence we're unaware of. Except for their UAPs of course. I wonder who Nolan is "working with"?

Also worth noting, that while the UAP guys in the paper mentioned are speculating about actual intelligent non-human entities at least similar to us, the notion of intelligent micro-entities was explored in the 2003 novel Darwin's Radio by Greg Bear. The dormant bits of viral DNA in our own genome are actually intelligent and are running evolution, or something like that:

External Quote:

But when Dicken finds what he’s looking for, the answer proves to be stranger—and far deadlier—than he ever could have imagined. Something that has slept in human DNA for millions of years is waking up.

Molecular biologist Kaye Lang has spent her career tracing ancient retroviruses in the human genome. She believes these microscopic fossils can come to life again. But when Dicken’s discovery becomes public, Lang’s theory suddenly turns to chilling fact. As the outbreak of this terrifying disease threatens to become a deadly epidemic, Dicken and Lang must race against time to assemble the pieces of a puzzle only they are equipped to solve—an evolutionary puzzle that will determine the future of the human race . . . if a future exists at all.
1718816349062.png

https://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Radio-Novel-Greg-Bear-ebook

IIRC, one of the evolutionary upgrades induced by the intelligent virus DNA is a stiff rib down the center of the tongue allowing a person to carry on 2 conversations at once, literally speaking out of both sides of their mouths. That may possibly be in the sequel, Darwin's Children.
 
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A shadow biosphere is a hypothetical microbial biosphere of Earth that would use radically different biochemical and molecular processes from that of currently known life. Although life on Earth is relatively well studied, if a shadow biosphere exists, it may still remain unnoticed because the exploration of the microbial world targets primarily the biochemistry of the macro-organisms
(Yoshy's quote from Wikipedia)

It was not that many years ago (1977) that the existence of unknown and unsuspected complex life forms (using, if I recall, sulfur in the metabolic processes of tubeworms) was discovered around deep ocean hydrothermal vents. Wouldn't that fit the description of a "shadow biosphere" that is no longer "in the shadows"?
 
Wouldn't that fit the description of a "shadow biosphere" that is no longer "in the shadows"?
Not exactly. All of the life we have found so far still traces back to a single common ancestor. In my understanding, the shadow biosphere refers to a separate lineage of life.
 
I’m still hung up on the phrase “pictorial evidence”. What does that mean? A drawing by an eye witness? Is this in contrast to “photographic evidence”?
That's another thing I've noticed with the current batch of UAP enthusiasts: they get words wrong all the time. Like claiming they have recovered alien "biologics". Biologics are a class of drugs, not a synonym for biological entities. I'm not sure if it's a result of trying to sound interesting or novel, or what.
 
I’m still hung up on the phrase “pictorial evidence”. What does that mean? A drawing by an eye witness? Is this in contrast to “photographic evidence”?

Yeah, one would think that after a while people would get a little tired of Nolan's "trust me bro" schtick. Grusch and Elizondo can at least say they really were in government intelligence agencies, Nolan is professor at Stanford. I think he's made claims that he's done classified work for the government. The paper I referenced above contains another "trust me bro" type quote that Nolan gave to Ross Coulthart (bold by me):

External Quote:

In an interview with Nolan on Spotlight (2022), Coulthart posed a similar question to the one he asked Grusch, and received a comparably ambiguous answer: “You believe, on the evidence, that there is a non-human intelligence, of advanced technology, on this planet?” Nolan replied: “Advanced capabilities. No, I don’t know whether it’s a technology per se, because I’m leaving open the idea that it’s some form of consciousness that is non-material. And I know, say to my colleagues out there, this sounds absolutely crazy. But if you’ve seen the things that I’ve seen, you would only be able to come to a similar conclusion.”
Well, I for one haven't seen what Nolan has seen and I don't think I'm the only one. Nevertheless, I know some UFOlogy people that consider him a "rockstar".

As for the paper, they too make the claim for a possible "shadow biome" and cite Jeramy Corbell's "jellyfish" UAP as possible evidence (bold by me):

External Quote:

Moreover, our epistemological humility ought to extend to biology too, as argued by Davies et al. (2009) in a paper on the potential for Earth to host a “shadow biosphere” (or “shadow biome”) involving forms of “weird life … whose biochemistry is so nonstandard that it would not be detected by life-detection tools targeted at standard terran biochemistry.” This kind of idea has sometimes been known as the “paraphysical” hypothesis, which essentially denotes forms of life that are physical but are usually undetected and unknown to us17. Here one might note that although Davies et al. were generally referring to a shadow biome on a molecular level, there has recently been speculation with regard to larger life forms, as seen for example in relation to a strange airborne “jellyfish” UAP reported by Corbell.
ThecryptoterrestrialhypothesisLomasetal.J2024.pdf

I would suspect a bit synchronicity given Nolan's comments in 2022 and now this paper this month. But they may both be referencing the 2009 Davies et al. paper, and as noted in the other thread, the Crypto Terrestrial paper has everything from Atlantis to Bigfoot, including Nolan and the "Shadow biome" idea, so it could just be coincidence. Or, more likely, it's just that they're all playing in the same sand box with the same set of toys.

Corbell's "jellyfish" UAP discussed here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/jellyfish-ufo-from-tmzs-ufo-revolution.13304/
 
I’m still hung up on the phrase “pictorial evidence”. What does that mean? A drawing by an eye witness? Is this in contrast to “photographic evidence”?
Photographic evidence would be as useless as pictoral evidence for supporing such a claim. Even microscopy probably wouldn't be enough. Mere shape, nor simple spectroscopy, can not exclude anything. For example, elements and chemicals that are a toxin to one species can be nutrients to other species. Every substructure, every organelle, every membrane, would need to be examined at the (stereo)chemical level in order to be sure it wasn't an instance of something on the same tree of life that we're from. Fortunately we've got over 70 years of history to learn from in order to make such investigations much simpler, and far more precise and efficient technological aids.

Heading off more into the speculative, here:

Of course, just from the perspective of spontaneous symmetry breaking I'm no fan of there being an extant alternative tree of life. We clearly out-compete them, and we have a wide enough range of microbes that one of the almost universal "indiscriminately-hoover-up-anything-in-range-and-break-it-apart" microbes (and I recommend the /Journey to the Microcosmos/ youtube channel for wonderful footage of so many examples) would have eaten them up. For example, there's absolutely no reason to believe that some kind of L-life didn't spring into existence at about the same geological time as our R-life, but if it did, we got lucky and got the upper hand, and whilst we in our greater numbers were uselessly chewing on their L-life food - we don't need to use it, only to ruin it for them - as well as our own R-life food, they started starving, so we outcompeted them even more. There's no negative feedback to dampen or reverse the process. (Yes, that simplifies to a homogenous scenario, and clearly you could have regional dominances of both that could migrate over time, but eventually one would get a true upperhand and wipe the other out.) Of course, if we had some bugs on team R-life that could metabolise some of their L-food, that would increase our advantage, and we do know that some bacteria and archaea can metabolise L-sugars, for example. Perhaps that's how we won, if there ever was such a competition?
 
That's another thing I've noticed with the current batch of UAP enthusiasts: they get words wrong all the time. Like claiming they have recovered alien "biologics". Biologics are a class of drugs, not a synonym for biological entities. I'm not sure if it's a result of trying to sound interesting or novel, or what.

I'd hazard a guess that to them "biologics" were a class of dietary suppliments.
 
Not exactly. All of the life we have found so far still traces back to a single common ancestor. In my understanding, the shadow biosphere refers to a separate lineage of life.
We know of many, many of the larger species of life that have gone extinct. So it seems probable to me that such separate starting points DID exist in the earliest days of "experiments" with life on earth, only to be driven quickly to extinction by more successful forms, but of course molecular chains and single cells are too tiny and too ancient for us to find any traces now. Extinction would be the likely fate of any "shadow biospheres" that have arisen more recently, unless (1) they're in an isolated environment or on an entirely different planet, or (2) WE are the ones doomed to extinction. :(
 
That didn’t quite answer my simple question of what is the definition of “pictorial evidence”.
My bad. He doesn't detail what that means other than saying he has offered to buy a machine to do it for the person. The best we can do is assume photographic evidence or perhaps microscopy with specialized equipment (something like scanning electron microscopy perhaps). I don't think there is an actual answer for you.
 
Garry Nolan has often made claims of having scientifically vetted evidence of UAP, NHI, and so on, with the claims eventually going nowhere. (See here for example of claims regarding Jim's ball.) However, I don't think I've seen this mentioned before: Nolan claimed to have evidence of a shadow biosphere in his interview on YouTube's Event Horizon. Start at 7:42 if it doesn't load there.

Relevant quotes:

Host at 8:05: Do you think we could ever run across it if there was a second abiogenesis on planet Earth?

Nolan: Uh yes and I've actually although I I don't mean to sound conspiratorial or anything there's someone that I'm working with who has at least pictorial evidence of such a thing you know but before I get all excited about it I'm actually buying for the guy uh some instruments that he can use to determine if it's actually real or not I mean the the picture evidence that I've seen is pretty compelling so we'll see I mean because what what whatever it is it isn't standard

Definition from Wikipedia:

External Quote:

A shadow biosphere is a hypothetical microbial biosphere of Earth that would use radically different biochemical and molecular processes from that of currently known life. Although life on Earth is relatively well studied, if a shadow biosphere exists, it may still remain unnoticed because the exploration of the microbial world targets primarily the biochemistry of the macro-organisms.
This would be a very big deal in science because it would be evidence of a second abiogenesis and would give us a look at a totally different type of life with no relation to ourselves. This interview was posted in December 2022, and I cannot find any followup. Nolan seems to have a habit of believing wild claims and then going silent on them.


"it may still remain unnoticed because the exploration of the microbial world targets primarily the biochemistry of the macro-organisms."

Primarily, but not exclusively.
PLUS there are all of the chemists and other physical scientists who deal with non-organic chemistry. The separation between organic chemistry and non-organic chemistry is not some vast chasm

No metallurgist trying to make a new alloy who stumbled on a combination that some shadow biosphere organism loves to eat (corrode)? No vat of corrosive chemicals that suddenly changed color because some shadow biosphere organism found it a congenial home? Shadow biosphere organisms would have to interact with some part of the natural world, and that interaction could be observed. Especially if they are capable of building UAP's.
 
it may still remain unnoticed because the exploration of the microbial world targets primarily the biochemistry of the macro-organisms.
I know this is a quote from the Wikipedia article and not the actual video, but is it just me or is that sentence just nonsense? How does the exploration of the microbial world targets primarily the biochemistry of the macro-organisms? Doesn't the exploration of the microbial world target the micro-organisms pretty much by definition of the term? Maybe it means the biggest microbes, but macro-organism implies it's not micro.
 
No metallurgist trying to make a new alloy who stumbled on a combination that some shadow biosphere organism loves to eat (corrode)? No vat of corrosive chemicals that suddenly changed color because some shadow biosphere organism found it a congenial home? Shadow biosphere organisms would have to interact with some part of the natural world, and that interaction could be observed. Especially if they are capable of building UAP's.

Indeed. As far as I know, ALL life on Earth uses ATP as it's basic energy:

External Quote:

Adenosine triphosphate (ATP) is a nucleotide[2] that provides energy to drive and support many processes in living cells, such as muscle contraction, nerve impulse propagation, and chemical synthesis. Found in all known forms of life, it is often referred to as the "molecular unit of currency" for intracellular energy transfer.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate

I presume this includes the weird stuff that lives in sulfuric vents in the ocean bottoms as well. So, that means all current life on Earth traces back to something that could use ATP for energy and produce it in various ways, right? As @FatPhil noted above, any non-ATP using organism, if there was such a thing, was out competed long ago.

As you point out, just because the members of this supposed "shadow biosphere" still have to interact with the world around us. There would be some sign of them. I think the clue is Nolan's notion of a "non-material" entity:

External Quote:

No, I don’t know whether it’s a technology per se, because I’m leaving open the idea that it’s some form of consciousness that is non-material.
If it's just a "non-material" "form of consciousness", then trying to figure out what possible chemical process it operates by is pointless. It's non-material. So is Magik.
 
I know this is a quote from the Wikipedia article and not the actual video, but is it just me or is that sentence just nonsense? How does the exploration of the microbial world targets primarily the biochemistry of the macro-organisms? Doesn't the exploration of the microbial world target the micro-organisms pretty much by definition of the term? Maybe it means the biggest microbes, but macro-organism implies it's not micro.
What the quote means is that we took what we learned from researching macro-organisms (what is a cell etc.) and applied it to look for micro-organisms. If there were micro-organisms that are unlike anything that has evolved to be visible with the naked eye, we might miss them.

I have to say it seems unlikely to me. So many school children are putting pond water under microscopes that any pervasive "shadow biology" would have been noticed by now. (Note that the 'hydrothermal vent' novel biology does not share a biome with us.)

To me, the upshoot is that this is the legend of the Loch Ness monster ("survived since prehistoric times in a Scottish lake") couched in modern jargon. It had "pictorial evidence", too.
 
Photographic evidence would be as useless as pictoral evidence for supporing such a claim. Even microscopy probably wouldn't be enough. Mere shape, nor simple spectroscopy, can not exclude anything. For example, elements and chemicals that are a toxin to one species can be nutrients to other species. Every substructure, every organelle, every membrane, would need to be examined at the (stereo)chemical level in order to be sure it wasn't an instance of something on the same tree of life that we're from. Fortunately we've got over 70 years of history to learn from in order to make such investigations much simpler, and far more precise and efficient technological aids.

Good points. Reminds of the meteorite from Mars that had structures that looked like life, but disappointingly the consensus now is that it's not evidence of life on Mars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Hills_84001

ALH84001_structures.jpg


Another case of possible evidence of a shadow biosphere is "desert varnish": an orange-yellow to black coating found on exposed rock surfaces in arid environments. Desert varnish is approximately one micrometer thick and exhibits nanometer-scale layering.

Again, consensus is a more mundane explanation.

External Quote:
It has been suggested that desert varnish should be investigated as a potential candidate for a "shadow biosphere".[4][5] However, a 2008 microscopy study posited that desert varnish has already been reproduced with chemistry not involving life in the lab, and that the main component is actually silica and not clay as previously thought. The study notes that desert varnish is an excellent fossilizer for microbes and indicator of water. Desert varnish appears to have been observed by rovers on Mars, and if examined may contain fossilized life from Mars's wet period.[6]
 
The 'shadow biosphere' hypothesis is quite a significant one, and the fact we haven't found one seems to show that evolution is real, but suggests to me that local abiogenesis is much more important than panspermia in the development of life in the Cosmos.

As @Ann K notes, the fact that every organism on Earth has a single common ancestor does not rule out the possibility of other abiogenesis events in the early history of Earth, but it does seem to indicate that all the other events (if any) led to organisms which became extinct.

I think we can extrapolate this to show that, if panspermia were common, then the chances of another lineage of microorganisms from outer space landing on Earth would be quite high, and these panspermia events might be expected to happen quite frequently; in which case we might find evidence of such events persisting in our current biosphere. Instead, we have nothing. This suggests to me that panspermia is probably an insignificant factor in the development of life on Earth, and may also be insignificant elsewhere.

Also it seems significant that none of these apparently frequent UFO crashes are accompanied by any evidence of alien microbes or tissues - it should be straightforward to test alien material for exotic DNA (or equivalent). Maybe this is why Nolan is enthusiastic about the idea - but without any samples, there is nothing to get excited about.
 
Also it seems significant that none of these apparently frequent UFO crashes are accompanied by any evidence of alien microbes or tissues - it should be straightforward to test alien material for exotic DNA (or equivalent). Maybe this is why Nolan is enthusiastic about the idea - but without any samples, there is nothing to get excited about.
Unless you believe Grusch..
 
Unless you believe Grusch..

But believe what? His story about the Italian UFO is 1/2 likely forged documents and 1/2 fantasies from a serial fantasizer. As for his claims of "biologicals" that the government may have, by his own admission, these are hearsay and 2nd hand accounts. He may believe them, and I may believe he believes them, but that doesn't mean I believe a 2nd hand account.

I only know what he says someone told him, which may or may not be what was actually said to him, and I don't know where the source got their information. Grusch, Nolan, Elizondo, Nell, Coulthart, Puthoff, Melon and the rest are still just talk at this point. All any of them has ever produced is a few Navy videos, which aren't nearly as compelling as was claimed.
 
While I wouldn't completely dismiss the possibility of a shadow biosphere existing on Earth, I am much more sceptical of anyone having any kind of proof of one. We are still finding new organisms that are unlike any discovered before and often those discoveries are not very straightforward. For example, consider the Placozoans:
The first known placozoan, Trichoplax adhaerens, was discovered in 1883 by the German zoologist Franz Eilhard Schulze (1840–1921).[10][11] Describing the uniqueness, another German, Karl Gottlieb Grell (1912–1994), erected a new phylum, Placozoa, for it in 1971. Remaining a monotypic phylum for over a century,[12][13] new species began to be added since 2018.


Most biologists rejected Schulze's description of it as a unique animal, nothing about it was published for decades, with the most widely accepted explanation would be that it was the larvae of Eleutheria krohni until electron microscopy allowed Krell to reinstate Schulze's hypothesis in 1971. But still, it would take until 2018 until anyone described any other species in the phylum.

In more modern times, you have the puzzling Parakaryon myojinensis:

Parakaryon myojinensis, also known as the Myojin parakaryote, is a highly unusual species of single-celled organism known only from a single specimen, described in 2012. It has features of both prokaryotes and eukaryotes but is apparently distinct from either group, making it unique among organisms discovered thus far.[1] It is the sole species in the genus Parakaryon.


There are many more similar examples of strange forms of life that give headaches to taxonomists, evolutionary biologists and their colleagues and considering the vastness of the Earth compared to the minute size of many of these organisms I have no doubt they will find many more and it is possible that one of these days they will find something not from "our" tree of life but I wouldn't bet on it, for a number of reasons. First, it would have to happen somewhere that is conductive to the emergence of life, but where other life hasn't been able to spread to, which is a very narrow criteria. Second, it would probably have to be a very small, remote and protected habitat, meaning that whatever organisms living there would also be very small and quite simple. Third, it would have to persist in time long enough to coincide with human scientists discovering it. Fourth, it would have to be able to be preserved well enough to be studied (and the problem here is that I am quite sure that the sample collection will introduce pathogens and predators that will devastate the ecosystem so they probably only have one shot at it as well).

Anyone actually finding proof, even quite dubious proof of such an organism would not be keeping it under wraps. It would potentially be the most important discovery since DNA, fame and funding would be pouring down and besides there is absolutely no reason for a shadowy government conspiracy keeping it secret either. If there was some kind of macro-level shadow biosphere with sentient lifeforms on the level of building flying saucers, we would've seen proof of it by now. There would be traces of organic compounds with no known use or source amongst known lifeforms. If they lived underground, as proponents claimed, there would be seismological data picking up on their activitiy (not to mention the huge caverns that would be needed for a whole civilization to exist down there).
 
I'd expect that any 'shadow biosphere' or any extraterrestrial tissue would be fairly easy to distinguish from terrestrial biota. The DNA of all organisms found on Earth so far shows that we are all descended from a last common ancestor; I'd expect shadow biosphere or extraterrestrial tissue to have completely novel genetic codes, probably but not necessarily DNA-based or RNA-based, but quite probably with different codon correspondences.

The standard genetic code is not the only possible code - there are at least 33 different genetic codon tables in our own biota, all of which have emerged from the original LUCA coding; this suggests very strongly that many more codings are possible, and I would expect any shadow biosphere or extraterrestrial tissue to have significantly different codon tables - assuming they use DNA/RNA at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_codes
While there is much commonality, different parts of the tree of life use slightly different genetic codes.[1] When translating from genome to protein, the use of the correct genetic code is essential.
 
The DNA of all organisms found on Earth so far shows that we are all descended from a last common ancestor; I'd expect shadow biosphere or extraterrestrial tissue to have completely novel genetic codes, probably but not necessarily DNA-based or RNA-based, but quite probably with different codon correspondences.
"Last common ancestor", of course, does not mean "first life forms on earth". Any previous earthly life forms, now extinct, might have borne a marked similarity to the surviving ones. That's especially true if they both used the same amino acids from the same sources, whether those sources were terrestrial or from meteorites, but simply used them in novel ways.
 
I’m still hung up on the phrase “pictorial evidence”. What does that mean? A drawing by an eye witness? Is this in contrast to “photographic evidence”?
probably a selfie of a scientist looking concerned into the sky holding some dirt between his fingers

at least thats the sort of images that these guys usually find compelling "why would he look like that if his findings werent special".

jokes aside, this seems to be within Nolans expertise so i would assume he saw some microscopic images of cellular structures that were highly unusual and surprising to conventional life forms?

would explain why he wanted to provide his colleague with specialized instruments (if im not mistaken then he has at least one venture that produces instruments and tools within this field).

personally, if Nolan seems intrigued by it then its at the very least interesting. hes out of his expertise talking about materials but cellular stuff is right down his alley and he seems to be well respected too
 
My daughter (a PhD) had as a lecturer Milton Wainwright, a maverick microbiologist who has made many unusual claims about life-forms which came from space.
Here's his IMDB page; he's been on Ancient Aliens, NASA' Unexplained files, and has published several papers on his (bat-crazy) theories.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5889968/
Despite his status as a microbiology lecturer, everyone on his courses knew that he was basically talking crap whenever he mentioned space aliens, and they made suitable allowances. There is no guarantee that having a position at a top university ensures that your fringe theories are correct, or accepted by the consensus.
 
I'd expect that any 'shadow biosphere' or any extraterrestrial tissue would be fairly easy to distinguish from terrestrial biota. The DNA of all organisms found on Earth so far shows that we are all descended from a last common ancestor; I'd expect shadow biosphere or extraterrestrial tissue to have completely novel genetic codes, probably but not necessarily DNA-based or RNA-based, but quite probably with different codon correspondences.

The standard genetic code is not the only possible code - there are at least 33 different genetic codon tables in our own biota, all of which have emerged from the original LUCA coding; this suggests very strongly that many more codings are possible, and I would expect any shadow biosphere or extraterrestrial tissue to have significantly different codon tables - assuming they use DNA/RNA at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_codes

The other aspect of the "shadow biosphere" hidden civilization is that the alternate tree of life had to have developed from these theorized single-cell and then multi-cell organisms to the point where one branch produced complex life forms with at least human-level intelligence -- but then the entire rest of the tree left no paleontological evidence from its millions of years of existence.
 
the alternate tree of life had to have developed from these theorized single-cell and then multi-cell organisms to the point where one branch produced complex life forms with at least human-level intelligence
I don't think "human-level intelligence" is part of the claim, is it? The search for such a species is generally conducted among extremophiles: things (most often microbes) that have adapted to live in poorly-explored places like deep in caves, under ice shelves, or the lip of active volcanoes, where it might be expected that they would have very little interaction with known life forms. Nobody but sci-fi writers expect to find human intelligence among things like bits of slime.
 
I don't think "human-level intelligence" is part of the claim, is it? The search for such a species is generally conducted among extremophiles: things (most often microbes) that have adapted to live in poorly-explored places like deep in caves, under ice shelves, or the lip of active volcanoes, where it might be expected that they would have very little interaction with known life forms. Nobody but sci-fi writers expect to find human intelligence among things like bits of slime.
Well, the episode is titled "Do We Share the Earth With Someone Else?" and the guest is studying UFOs and supposed metamaterials from NHI, so the implication is there.

Looking at the transcript, Nolan meanders all over the place, but I think his point, more than the host's point, is that evidence of an alternative origin of life in earth would suggest something like:
  • If there's more than one way for life to arise, then that increases the odds of extraterrestrial life and potential alien visitors.
  • And/or, one of these two forms of life could have been seeded from space, which implies other forms of life could have arisen from the same seeds somewhere else.
Which is a lot of woo. Which goes back to the point that if there's no evidence of this form or seed of non-Archaean, non-bacterial life developing into complex life forms on Earth, let alone existing, why conclude it would have done so in another environment and developed the civilization and motivation to send saucers here?
 
That's correct - but most biologists who are looking for a shadow biosphere are looking for exotic microbes, rather than sentient beings.
Yup, so much so that "diatoms" has almost become a dogwhistle, spoiling it for the real scientists. Since probably ~2013:
External Quote:
In a detailed paper called "Fossil Diatoms In A New Carbonaceous Meteorite" that is appearing in the Journal of Cosmology, Chandra Wickramasinghe claims to have found strong evidence that life exists throughout the universe.
-- https://www.huffpost.com/entry/extraterresterial-life-exists-chandra-wickramasinghe_n_2500008
 
Phil Plait nailed it in that article. The rock has several species of terrestrial diatoms embedded in it, and a few no-one has managed to identify; obviously the terrestrial diatoms came from Earth, so why should we expect that the unknown ones are extraterrestrial?
 
Yup, so much so that "diatoms" has almost become a dogwhistle, spoiling it for the real scientists.

Indeed, from the article you cited, it appears Wickramasinghe worked with Hoyle to develop the "panspermia" hypothesis:

External Quote:

Wickramasinghe and the late English astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle co-developed a theory known as "panspermia," which suggests that life exists throughout the universe and is distributed by meteoroids and asteroids.
Which is fine if you eventuality find evidence, or wait until you do. It seems though that Wickramasinghe may find evidence everywhere according to Phil Plait:

External Quote:
Astronomer Phil Plait, writing in Slate magazine, raised several red flags and called into question the validity of Wickramasinghe's findings.

"Wickramasinghe is a fervent proponent of [panspermia]. Like, really fervent. So much so that he attributes everything to life in space," Plait wrote. "He's claimed living cells found in the stratosphere come from space. (There is no evidence at all they do, and it's far more likely they are terrestrial). ... Wickramasinghe jumps on everything, with little or no evidence, and says it's from outer space, so I think there's a case to be made for a bias on his part."
And Wickramasinghe's response does sound a bit like a "Galileo Persecution" defense, a notable sign of pseudo-science:

External Quote:

In an earlier research paper he co-authored in 2012, Wickramasinghe wrote, "For nearly five decades evidence in favor of a non-terrestrial origin of life and panspermia has accumulated which has not been properly assessed. A point has now been reached that demands the serious attention of biologists to a possibly transformative paradigm shift of the question of the origin of life, with profound implications across many disciplines."

"If only ideas that are considered orthodox are given support through award of grants or publication opportunities, it is certain that the progress of science will be stifled as it was throughout the middle ages," Wickramasinghe wrote to HuffPost.
I suppose that at least in this case, the evidence has been put forward and can be evaluated.
 
jokes aside, this seems to be within Nolans expertise so i would assume he saw some microscopic images of cellular structures that were highly unusual and surprising to conventional life forms?

Maybe. Or maybe he's looking at Patrick Jackson's collection of orb photos. Orbs that Jackson thinks shows an alien defense system around the globe. As shared by @MonkeeSage over on our Crypto Terrestrial Hypothesis (CTH) thread, Jackson has spent years going over old photos and finding "orbs", something Nolan endorses:

External Quote:

In June 2023, the Sunday World newspaper published the exclusive story of Patrick Jackson, an Irish man who lives in Cambridge.

Patrick had spent 20 years studying the sphere UFOs seen by many in the skies, something which was also grudgingly admitted by the Pentagon last year.

“I have been talking to Patrick for over a year now and was among the first to try to get him out there. I think there’s something worth investigating,” Professor Nolan wrote at the weekend.

The Nobel Prize nominee commented further on Patrick’s theory, which essentially states that sphere UAP provide a planetary defence, acting as a protection for humans.


External Quote:

"I am deeply aware of the situation. I find the results and general observations compellingly worth trying to understand,” Professor Nolan continued.

"Sets of spheres seen in photos that were ‘unnoticed’ over decades. Who would know to ‘hoax’ them repeatedly until Patrick noticed them? Full credit to him.”
And these "orbs" maybe controlled by a "second species":

External Quote:

Speaking again exclusively to the Sunday World, Patrick said [...] "This suggests that whoever built [the sphere network] is still around and maintaining it - a second species. Harvard researchers suggest aliens may live among us.”
https://www.sundayworld.com/news/ir...eory-needs-to-be-investigated/a554468676.html

Some sort of alternative species or line of development is what Nolan is suggesting in the OP article and he says he's seen "photographic" evidence of this. Jackson is suggesting that "orbs" that appears in photos, including old ones, are actually controlled by sentient beings that are on earth now, but are not related to us. Sounds like a "shadow biom". Seems to fit together.

The CTH thread is here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...on-the-dark-side-of-the-moon-or-alaska.13504/
 
In a detailed paper called "Fossil Diatoms In A New Carbonaceous Meteorite" that is appearing in the Journal of Cosmology, Chandra Wickramasinghe claims to have found strong evidence that life exists throughout the universe.
I suspect this may not be trustworthy.

External Quote:
The Journal of Cosmology is a website that describes itself as a "scientific journal".[1][2] It has been criticized for lacking oversight and proper peer-review, and promoting fringe theories.[3][4][5][6] It was established in 2009 by neuroscientistRhawn Joseph; as of 2023, Rudolph Schild is the editor-in-chief.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Cosmology

From Wickramasinghe's Wikipedia page:
External Quote:
Hoyle and Wickramasinghe have advanced the argument that various outbreaks of illnesses on Earth are of extraterrestrial origins, including the 1918 flu pandemicand certain outbreaks of polio and mad cow disease. For the 1918 flu pandemic they hypothesised that cometary dust brought the virus to Earth simultaneously at multiple locations—a view almost universally dismissed by external experts on this pandemic.
He has long been known as espousing fringe views, including on creationism.
External Quote:
In 2018, Wickramasinghe and over 30 other authors published a paper in Progress in Biophysics and Molecular Biology entitled "Cause of Cambrian Explosion - Terrestrial or Cosmic?" which argued in favour of panspermia as the origin of the Cambrian explosion, and posited that cephalopods are alien lifeforms that originated from frozen eggs that were transported to earth via meteor.[68] The claims gained widespread press coverage.[69][70][71] Virologist Karin Mölling, in a companion commentary published in the same journal, stated that the claims "cannot be taken seriously".
@NorCal Dave Snap!
 
Indeed, from the article you cited, it appears Wickramasinghe worked with Hoyle to develop the "panspermia" hypothesis
External Quote:
Published in his 1982/1984 books Evolution from Space (co-authored with Chandra Wickramasinghe), Hoyle calculated that the chance of obtaining the required set of enzymes for even the simplest living cell without panspermia was one in 1040,000.
Wikipedia, Fred Hoyle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle

Wickramasinghe was closely associated with Fred Hoyle's more, um, fringe views. I think they were implying that the evolution of life was maybe being guided, or had been in some way planned, before the term "Intelligent Design" was in widespread use.

That said, Wickramasinghe (and Hoyle) correctly predicted that comets would be found to contain significant amounts of organic compounds, which wasn't a mainstream view- but many of their other fringe theories would seem to be just that.
 
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