Galvanic cell experiment by Dutchsinse

solrey

Senior Member.
When two dissimilar metals are separated by an electrolyte a voltage potential is produced. This is how batteries work. We learned this somewhere around grades 4 through 6, we made batteries with lemons and potatoes. An 11 year old boy named Derek did well in science fairs with a well organized experiment testing different configurations of galvanic cells. His 14 year old sister helps him stay organized.

The Effect of Metal Type on the Voltage of a Galvanic Cell

Enter dutchsinse...




This is just sad... and the comments are worse.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Is dutch trolling his viewers?
dunno, he seems serious enough...

Does he think those vitamins are pure elemental versions of those metals? Did he read the labels? For example, the Zinc is actually in the form of zinc gluconate, a salt of gluconic acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconic_acid

Other ingredients are: Vegetable Cellulose, Dicalcium Phosphate, Silica, Vegetable Magnesium Stearate, Vegetable Stearic Acid

http://images.vitaminimages.com/cdn/sd/pdf/L002060-NB.PDF

Apparently he does not realize that some of those ingredients could act as an electrolyte when mixed with water? Does he not understand that a battery produces electricity due to a chemical reaction, essentially controlled corrosion, such that a lead-acid battery with fresh electrodes will produce electricity as soon as the electrolyte is added?

Yes dutch, you made a battery, a galvanic cell, and heat is a catalyst for chemical reactions thus the higher voltage.
 
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Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
At least he's beginning to science. Too bad the Egyptians figured all this out 3 or 4 thousand years ago.. but at least he's learning the basics of science.

 

Hevach

Senior Member.
"A 3D printer connected to those elements could print batteries."
Depends how soon 3d printers that work with metal instead of plastic are available. Probably a long way from the consumer market just for safety reasons of giving people a device that melts metal, but commercial ones I've read are in development.


Pet peeve: People seem to conflate "3d printed" with "free." A typical consumer model 3d printer is capable of producing the equivalent to cheap plastic crap from the checkout line of the grocery store, but at much higher cost. That filament "ink" is not cheap. A higher quality printer can produce quite high quality products, including surgical quality tools and industrial components, but at even higher cost.

Anything you need more than a few of would be cheaper made through more traditional means. But with those methods making just a few of something is prohibitively expensive because of initial costs, which is why 3d printers are so useful for custom items but so bad for mass production.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
Depends how soon 3d printers that work with metal instead of plastic are available. Probably a long way from the consumer market just for safety reasons of giving people a device that melts metal, but commercial ones I've read are in development.
Yes.. the closest thing we have now are CNC machines.. they're great for quasi 2D objects.. like panels and some machined parts, but the heat and torques involved for trying to carve something out of a block of aluminum are huge.

The beauty of 3D printing is that its done in layers.. one on top of the other.. not sure you can layer metals like that and it work. Will be sweet to see how its done.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
This is just sad... and the comments are worse.
I don't so much mind the experiment, or even that he thinks he's made a new discovery, I doff my hat to anyone who takes time out to improve themselves and learn some science. Can't wait until he "discovers" the zinc-air battery :)

I even think the crowd funding is because he genuinely thinks he's discovered something new.

The comments though..... time was when pretty much any 10 year old would not only be able to identify his "invention" for what it was, they would have already done the experiment at school. All but a handful of commenters seem to be as awe-struck as primitives seeing their first hand mirror.

Something has gone badly wrong somewhere.

Ray Von
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
I don't so much mind the experiment, or even that he thinks he's made a new discovery, I doff my hat to anyone who takes time out to improve themselves and learn some science. Can't wait until he "discovers" the zinc-air battery :)

I even think the crowd funding is because he genuinely thinks he's discovered something new.

The comments though..... time was when pretty much any 10 year old would not only be able to identify his "invention" for what it was, they would have already done the experiment at school. All but a handful of commenters seem to be as awe-struck as primitives seeing their first hand mirror.

Something has gone badly wrong somewhere.

Ray Von

Shouldnt surprise you too much Ray.. just look at what passes for entertainment. Let's also not forget that while education is a good platform to run on, nobody really fixes anything. For example, I didnt do a lot of these experiments in school because by the time I was old enough to do them, a lot of the funding had been cut. Hell I didnt get to really dig into chemistry until I was in 11th Grade because there wasnt enough money for the chemicals and safety gear.. and even THEN, we were in groups of 5 to 10 with one person actually doing the experiment while everyone else stood around and watched. On the other hand though, the sports budgets were growing by leaps and bounds. Why? because sports brought in money.. Chemistry, Biology, Math, Arts and Music COST money.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
One of his comments in the thread:


Is he high?

How else could making the equivalent of a 5th grade potato clock be so earth shattering?

Or is he cynically acting in the knowledge that his followers will believe that he is on to something special here and send him more money?
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
The comments though..... time was when pretty much any 10 year old would not only be able to identify his "invention" for what it was, they would have already done the experiment at school. All but a handful of commenters seem to be as awe-struck as primitives seeing their first hand mirror.
Yeah, well I'm pretty sure that I knew what a cirrus cloud was by the time I was 10 as well.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
jasonmushersee ...I've been talking to electrical engineers for years about this and they always say you can't get energy from nothing.



dutchsinse
--Let them know its not coming from nothing.. the atoms which make up the elements are always pulling THEIR electrons (to stay stable) from the background universe charge which makes up the electrons from the "sea of energy" . Therefore the power is coming from the Universe...


**************************************************************

See, this is why we can't have nice science:
Idiot "electrical engineers" don't even know about this "universe" dealie...
and that harnessing it's background energy is a snap...
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Is he high?

How else could making the equivalent of a 5th grade potato clock be so earth shattering?

Or is he cynically acting in the knowledge that his followers will believe that he is on to something special here and send him more money?
"Doing science" is not necessarily the same thing as "understanding science." Tons of free energy people on youtube do stuff like water cracking and heat engines and think they've bypassed the laws of thermodynamics in some way. They'll use a motor to spin a generator and plug the generator into the same battery and it'll run much longer than just the motor, and then they'll use that as proof that they're getting close to that magic combination that will run forever.

Heck, hasn't Dutch been one of the water and soil testers?

The beauty of 3D printing is that its done in layers.. one on top of the other.. not sure you can layer metals like that and it work. Will be sweet to see how its done.
The companies claiming to be working on it aren't very forthcoming that I can find, but the theories I've read are layered welds (which would be very slow and use an incredible amount of electricity. Probably also require metal work afterwards to clean it up) and soft metals with melting points comparable to high-quality 3d printer plastic (which probably means very brittle and heat sensitive products that might not actually be more useful than a plastic one).
 
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solrey

Senior Member.
He's taking his toys and going home...

https://fundrazr.com/campaigns/axWW4/ab/5meHf

Careful with that axe, Eugene!


 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
Oooh. If someone just gave me $75 I'd spend it all on button cells, stack them together in a huge pile and harness the sea of energy in the unknown quantum universe. Or just get a couple of pizzas and a box of Stella. Whatevs.

Ray Von
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
He's taking his toys and going home...

https://fundrazr.com/campaigns/axWW4/ab/5meHf

:( Hey. i want a voltmeter too. guys, send me some money would ya?
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
:( Hey. i want a voltmeter too. guys, send me some money would ya?
First you have to make a YouTube video showing your amazement over your discovery
that a potato can power a small LED clock...then start a crowdfunding page to show
you're gonna use 6 potatoes to power a Bugatti Veyron...
 

scombrid

Senior Member.

So three weeks ago Dutchsinse was insisting that it was not a battery that he "invented".

He went as far as to call his "invention":

Now he insists that he beat Stanford to the punch in the invention of an aluminum ion battery and that Stanford copied him.

https://www.facebook.com/DutchsinseOfficial/posts/915494191836339

https://www.facebook.com/DutchsinseOfficial/posts/915462258506199

Three weeks ago Dutchsinse insisted that it wasn't a battery in response to critics telling him that it was a battery.

1. He has deleted this post and subsequent comments from his facebook feed. Why?

2. Is it a battery or not Dutch? The Standford scientists are calling it a battery, one that can be charged very quickly.

3. Did Dutch really beat them to the punch? Seems that they submitted their manuscript to the Journal Nature in March 2014 and the current round of press releases accompanies the official publication of the paper in that journal.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature14340.html

 
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Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
So three weeks ago Dutchsinse was insisting that it was not a battery that he "invented".
Ya, Dutch claims he has been cheated by Stanford. He says his research pre-dates Stanford's YouTube Video and therefore he deserves credit for the idea.

dutch-facebook.png

What Dutch doesn't realize is that members of the Stanford team have been researching this Aluminum battery for years. The leader of the team, Hongjie Dai, published a progress report dated Nov, 2014.

Here's a paper submitted Jan 26, 2014. Hongjie Dai was one of the researchers.

I would like to know the advantages that Dutch's vitamin paste copper aluminum sandwich battery has over Stanford's synthesized NiAlCo-layered double hydroxide (LDH) nanoplates battery.
 
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scombrid

Senior Member.
Yes Dutchsinse, March 12, 2014. They submitted a manuscript about the results of their research over a year ago.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
According to a paper published in 2002, Aluminum as anode for energy storage and conversion: a review, an aluminum anode and carbon cathode were proposed as early as 1893 and aluminum has been considered as a battery electrode since the 1850's.

Dutch probably doesn't want to know that his batteries have a low power density and short life-span due to that layer of corrosion that inevitably forms on the surface of aluminum and copper... and that he's only about 160 years too late. :(

His idea is unique though, I'll bet nobody else thought of using crushed vitamin paste as an electrolyte...:rolleyes:
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
It seems every few years, news of some advancement in battery technology makes a big splash in the headlines. Despite some hype, the improvements in the technology are incremental, or they look promising but never pan out. Stanford's Al ion battery seems to be another case. It sounds great, looks promising but they still have many issues to fix before getting it to market.

Dutchsinse should not dispair, he has plenty of time to improve the energy density of his crushed vitamin paste battery.
 

Bruno D.

Senior Member.
The sad part is that it looks like he really though about all that by himself. I genuinely believe that he thinks that he was the first person to think about that.

It happens to all of us rather frequently. How many times did you have a great idea and started researching it only to see that someone else already "invented" that?

But he is so into the Conspiracy Mindset that the only logical conclusion for him is that someone stole his idea. He denies all evidence that contradicts that. That's usually what happens for all truthers: deny, deny, deny.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Dutchsinse is still trying to claim that Stanford ripped off his idea:

https://www.facebook.com/DutchsinseOfficial/posts/921994267852998

His claim hinges on his belief that Stanford submitted their work to the journal Nature just hours before his video was released.

The fact is, the paper was submitted to Nature in March 2014 and took a year to go through peer review and editing. I do not understand how he is making such an obvious mistake.



1. They did the work over several years and submitted the paper for peer review a full year before Dutch put out his video.

2. He claimed in his video that his device was not a battery and made a point to ridicule anyone that suggested that he had built a battery.


Here is again the citation from Nature:

 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Do you know if he's thinking of applying for a patent?
You would think one would do that before posting a video to YouTube. o_O

Dutchsinse is still trying to claim that Stanford ripped off his idea:

https://www.facebook.com/DutchsinseOfficial/posts/921994267852998

His claim hinges on his belief that Stanford submitted their work to the journal Nature just hours before his video was released.

The fact is, the paper was submitted to Nature in March 2014 and took a year to go through peer review and editing. I do not understand how he is making such an obvious mistake.



1. They did the work over several years and submitted the paper for peer review a full year before Dutch put out his video.

2. He claimed in his video that his device was not a battery and made a point to ridicule anyone that suggested that he had built a battery.


Here is again the citation from Nature:
Did he talk/write about this before posting his video? Or did Stanford read his mind?
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
The key word in the Stanford's invention is "Rechargeable". Rechargeable battery, or Secondary cell, is very different from the Dutchsinse's "invention" of simple Galvanic, or Primary cell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(electricity)#Categories_and_types_of_batteries
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Now he's claiming that his not-so-unique-or-new-idea of carbon as an electrode is being ripped off to make a "solar panel". Or as he calls it "electronegativity using carbon". o_O

dutchpost1.png


Thing is, as far as I can tell... there is no carbon in their storage cell. It consists of a vanadium electrolyte (vanadium and sulfuric acid), a platinum mesh electrode and a titanium dioxide/tungsten trioxide electrode. I don't know where he gets the idea that carbon is involved, unless he thinks that the platinum mesh electrode in the over-simplified diagram is carbon because it's colored a dark grey. Hmmm, wonder why he crops the labels off along the bottom of the diagram in his fb post. And didn't his idea involve stacking materials in order from low to high electronegativity, which would allegedly pull electrons from the aether or something to that effect?

VRB hybrid.gif

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cs502024k

The paper was received by the publisher on Dec. 16, 2014... dutch uploaded his vid on Mar. 13, 2015.

As has been established, carbon has been used as an electrode for over 100 years and vanadium redox batteries that utilize carbon have been under development since at least 1986.

http://www.osti.gov/scitech/biblio/5286742

http://www.researchgate.net/profile...ic_systems/links/54128de00cf2788c4b355f52.pdf

http://www.kigeit.org.pl/FTP/PRCIP/Literatura/081_Vanadium_Redox_Battieries.pdf

Alas, there is hope. He promises to stop sharing his "inventions" because he thinks teams of scientists are ripping ideas off of youtube... ideas that have been under development for decades before youtube even existed. Dude is so way, way far behind the curve it isn't even funny.

dutchwhine.png
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
What's the 'new wi-fi 2.45ghz wireless power using your router discovery' he's on about in the above screenshot?
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member

NoParty

Senior Member.
The fact is, the paper was submitted to Nature in March 2014 and took a year to go through peer review and editing. I do not understand how he is making such an obvious mistake.
I suspect nothing more than wishful thinking (and/or the desire to keep his "followers" believing in him)



He seems to think you could use the microwave energy from your wifi router to power.... erm, other stuff in your house. Including your wifi router, presumably...
And, once more, the confirmation of this huge news is... (wait for it...):

Just...

around...

the...


(endless) corner...



The hardest part....jpg
 
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